CA-58 Kramer Junction Bypass

[skluth]

Will the 395 interchange be free flowing? It would be nice to see a directional interchange(not warranted I know but I hate cloverleafs with a purple passion), but at the very least a cloverleaf would be better than a traffic signal for that corridor.

This link was posted earlier in the thread.

http://www.desertnews.com/news/article_fea9d16e-89ae-11e7-b3e1-5f014c5ed591.html?mode=image&photo=0

[Plutonic Panda]

Thanks and I am not sure how I missed that.

[sparker]

Looks as if the diamond/folded diamond configuration shown is something of a compromise intended to avoid taking some property on the west side of 395 north of the tracks; negotiations that produce outcomes like this are S.O.P. with today's freeway development environment; it's difficult to get anything built -- and often kissing ass in the process and subsequently "massaging" plans becomes a necessary step. 

However, I wouldn't fret too much about any capacity limitations of this type of interchange -- the current traffic levels on US 395 south of Kramer will, sooner than later, require a similar bypass arrangement for US 395 -- likely just east of the present settlement; that will entail a freeway-to-freeway interchange east of the one presently under construction.  This far out in the desert, it'd probably be a cloverleaf with (hopefully) CD lanes -- and perhaps a single directional ramp (either a turbine-type arrangement or a basic flyover) for the NB 395>WB 58 movement, which takes care of much of the heavy commercial traffic.  I'm thinking something like the I-5/I-80 interchange north of Sacramento, but rotated clockwise 90 or so degrees (with the NB 395 ramp arrangement mimicking the WB 80 layout).  Something like that would be more than adequate for at least several decades.

[pderocco]

Just drove through there. The vegetation has been cleared on the ROW west of US-395. East, they've built up the roadbed, and have put up some of the columns and poured some concrete for the RR overpass. Further east, it looks like the freeway is being built entirely north of the current alignment, so the current road will become a frontage road, rather than using it for EB traffic.

[sparker]

Just drove through there. The vegetation has been cleared on the ROW west of US-395. East, they've built up the roadbed, and have put up some of the columns and poured some concrete for the RR overpass. Further east, it looks like the freeway is being built entirely north of the current alignment, so the current road will become a frontage road, rather than using it for EB traffic.

Not surprising to hear -- the original CA 58 alignment east of Kramer, up to the point of the first improved expressway segment, is a typical undulating desert 2-lane road not really suited for use as part of a new expressway/freeway.  Since the project is intended to bypass that entire 2-lane stretch extending in both directions from US 395, new-terrain construction will likely constitute much if not all of the project.  I would imagine that there are plans for an interchange or at least a channelized intersection providing access from the new alignment to the old road somewhere east of town -- although I guess that traffic needing to use the facilities (convenience store, fueling) at Kramer would simply utilize the US 395 interchange, RR crossing and all (relatively easy off & on)!

[myosh_tino]

I would imagine that there are plans for an interchange or at least a channelized intersection providing access from the new alignment to the old road somewhere east of town -- although I guess that traffic needing to use the facilities (convenience store, fueling) at Kramer would simply utilize the US 395 interchange, RR crossing and all (relatively easy off & on)!

Although I have not seen the plans for this project, I think all that is planned is the 58/395 interchange just north of Kramer Junction.  I don't see a need for an eastern at-grade intersection because of the points you've already raised.  At the west end of the bypass, I can see the old road becoming an eastern extension of Twenty Mule Team Road with the S-type curve between Twenty Mule Team and the existing CA-58 freeway being removed.

BTW, isn't Twenty Mule Team Road designated as Business CA-58?  If so, I could see Caltrans extending that designation along the old road to Kramer Junction.

[sparker]

I would imagine that there are plans for an interchange or at least a channelized intersection providing access from the new alignment to the old road somewhere east of town -- although I guess that traffic needing to use the facilities (convenience store, fueling) at Kramer would simply utilize the US 395 interchange, RR crossing and all (relatively easy off & on)!

Although I have not seen the plans for this project, I think all that is planned is the 58/395 interchange just north of Kramer Junction.  I don't see a need for an eastern at-grade intersection because of the points you've already raised.  At the west end of the bypass, I can see the old road becoming an eastern extension of Twenty Mule Team Road with the S-type curve between Twenty Mule Team and the existing CA-58 freeway being removed.

BTW, isn't Twenty Mule Team Road designated as Business CA-58?  If so, I could see Caltrans extending that designation along the old road to Kramer Junction.

At one point Business 58 was signed along 20 Mule Team.  However, the last time I was moseying around that area circa 2011, I didn't notice either any biz route reassurance signage along the road nor trailblazers from freeway connectors -- but IIRC there was still a BGS somewhere west of Boron on EB 58 that mentioned the loop.  Remember, this is CA, where biz loops are signed and then ignored, with signage disappearing over the course of the ensuing decades.  And the Boron freeway's somewhere around 40 years of age, so most original signage is likely long gone.   

[pderocco]

At one point Business 58 was signed along 20 Mule Team.  However, the last time I was moseying around that area circa 2011, I didn't notice either any biz route reassurance signage along the road nor trailblazers from freeway connectors

Not much "business" in Boron that travelers would be interested in any more. It's a pretty dreary little place. The existing alignment through Kramer Junction probably won't get a BR-58 designation either, despite its truck stops and restaurants, since it will only be accessible from US-395.

On a vaguely related note, what surprises me is that when they bypassed Mojave, they built about 20 miles worth of frontage road along CA-58 and CA-14, none of it for access to abutters, and there isn't a goddam thing built on any of it, not one lousy gas station. That could have paid for a good chunk of the Kramer Junction project, or for grade-separating CA-58 from CA-223 and Bealville Rd, or for grade-separating CA-58 from California City Blvd, all of which will eventually be needed.

[myosh_tino]

On a vaguely related note, what surprises me is that when they bypassed Mojave, they built about 20 miles worth of frontage road along CA-58 and CA-14, none of it for access to abutters, and there isn't a goddam thing built on any of it, not one lousy gas station.

I'm guessing that was part of the deal Caltrans made with the landowners to acquire the right-of-way to build the freeway.  Looking at Google Maps, there are a number of dirt roads coming from the frontage road.  As for the lack of services, the city of Mojave has everything you'll need (i.e. food, gas and lodging) and is only a few miles off the freeway.  It wouldn't surprise me if the town (or it's businesses) made some sort of deal to prevent commercial development near the 3 interchanges built along the bypass.

That could have paid for a good chunk of the Kramer Junction project, or for grade-separating CA-58 from CA-223 and Bealville Rd, or for grade-separating CA-58 from California City Blvd, all of which will eventually be needed.

Except none of these projects are even being considered by Caltrans.  While I can see a need for an interchange with CA-223, I don't see an urgent need for grade-separating CA-58 between the end of the bypass and the California City Blvd intersection.

[sparker]

On a vaguely related note, what surprises me is that when they bypassed Mojave, they built about 20 miles worth of frontage road along CA-58 and CA-14, none of it for access to abutters, and there isn't a goddam thing built on any of it, not one lousy gas station.

I'm guessing that was part of the deal Caltrans made with the landowners to acquire the right-of-way to build the freeway.  Looking at Google Maps, there are a number of dirt roads coming from the frontage road.  As for the lack of services, the city of Mojave has everything you'll need (i.e. food, gas and lodging) and is only a few miles off the freeway.  It wouldn't surprise me if the town (or it's businesses) made some sort of deal to prevent commercial development near the 3 interchanges built along the bypass.

That could have paid for a good chunk of the Kramer Junction project, or for grade-separating CA-58 from CA-223 and Bealville Rd, or for grade-separating CA-58 from California City Blvd, all of which will eventually be needed.

Except none of these projects are even being considered by Caltrans.  While I can see a need for an interchange with CA-223, I don't see an urgent need for grade-separating CA-58 between the end of the bypass and the California City Blvd intersection.

If an upgrade to full freeway along CA 58 is ever undertaken, it's more than likely that the real "sore spots" where accidents occur (such as the adjoining intersections with CA 223 and Bealville Road) will be among the first to be addressed; the portions out in the desert that don't feature large volumes of cross-traffic, such as California City Blvd., will probably be among the last reconstructed.  When it comes to this particular corridor, the "squeaky wheels" (Bakersfield connection to 99, Mojave bypass, Kramers Corner, Hinkley) have historically been dealt with sooner rather than later, while the interim segments that don't pose immediate issues are "back-burnered", so to speak.  While relatively isolated, the Boron freeway was built in the '70's to address both the large volume of trucks coming from the borax plant as well as access to and from Edwards AFB to the south. 

[395fun2drive]

Hi all,

I just returned from Las Vegas and drove through the construction zone to get home to San Jose.
1. The overpass for the railroad tracks is under construction.
2. The lanes for both directions of 58 are poured and set from just past the county line to before the 395 overpass.
3. The overpass over 395 had the dirt berms only on the edges, no framework for the overpass yet.
4. Westbound 58 lanes west of the 4-lane to 2-lane bottleneck to before the left curve before the junction are already poured and set.

It looks like the existing part of 58 east of Kramer Junction will be diverted on the westbound lanes while the existing 58 will be torn up and redone to become the eastbound lanes. I already saw some of the same signage of Do Not Pass on the westbound lanes.

[sparker]

Hi all,

I just returned from Las Vegas and drove through the construction zone to get home to San Jose.
1. The overpass for the railroad tracks is under construction.
2. The lanes for both directions of 58 are poured and set from just past the county line to before the 395 overpass.
3. The overpass over 395 had the dirt berms only on the edges, no framework for the overpass yet.
4. Westbound 58 lanes west of the 4-lane to 2-lane bottleneck to before the left curve before the junction are already poured and set.

It looks like the existing part of 58 east of Kramer Junction will be diverted on the westbound lanes while the existing 58 will be torn up and redone to become the eastbound lanes. I already saw some of the same signage of Do Not Pass on the westbound lanes.

That corresponds with what I saw segueing from NB 395 to WB 58 Monday afternoon.  No actual bridgework for the 395 overpass, but paving from what will likely be the end of the ramps all the way to the existing freeway near Boron, with the present curve accessing that freeway modified so that the new pavement can be "cut in".  Glad to hear that the east overhead over the BNSF tracks is underway.  Talked about this previously in the "2018 Road Trips" thread; just glad another poster got a better look at the construction east of the junction -- much thanks!

[395fun2drive]

I found this youtube, similar to what I saw excepting the 395 overpass. When I went through the sun had already went down so I saw nothing. Shows both the cutouts at the ends of the project and the railroad overpass.

Fast forward to 13:20, 23:10, and 27:45 for the start, overpass, and end of the project. Driver did not move camera to view the 395 overpass, may not have known about the project. Sun is in the driver's & camera's face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTrMzmEoLQo

[sparker]

I found this youtube, similar to what I saw excepting the 395 overpass. When I went through the sun had already went down so I saw nothing. Shows both the cutouts at the ends of the project and the railroad overpass.

Fast forward to 13:20, 23:10, and 27:45 for the start, overpass, and end of the project. Driver did not move camera to view the 395 overpass, may not have known about the project. Sun is in the driver's & camera's face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTrMzmEoLQo

Looks like the driver was just doing a simple phone video of a CA desert sunrise; the fact that he was passing through the Kramer bypass construction zone was simply coincidence to him; since he didn't comment on the construction and lane configuration at the west end of the bypass, it's pretty obvious -- and bolstered by his later comments -- that he was unaware of the project.  Nevertheless, coincidences can sometimes be informative; for this forum, that proves to be the case -- now some of us know how the east end of the new facility will tie in to the existing expressway.

[froggie]

GMSV along US 395 has been updated to the November 2018 timeframe.  Shows construction on the bridge embankments for the future CA 58 overpass over US 395 as well as a temporary traffic signal on US 395 at a haul road being used for the bypass construction.

[Bobby5280]

I wish they would update the overhead/satellite views of that area. It would be nice to see the progress made on that part of CA-58. It would also be nice to see the finished bypass around Hinkley just to the East.

[sprjus4]

GMSV along US 395 has been updated to the November 2018 timeframe.  Shows construction on the bridge embankments for the future CA 58 overpass over US 395 as well as a temporary traffic signal on US 395 at a haul road being used for the bypass construction.

A bit of a distant view, but similarly, December 2018 imagery on CA-58 allows you to see the construction at the US-395 interchange as well, and you can see more progress going with the interchange.

[DAL764]

If you go into Streetview along the 58 you can see that some sort of construction is going on pretty much from the end of the freeway near Boron, the bridge over the BNSF line east of Kramer Junction,  east to the current end of the 4-lane section from Hinkley.

[sparker]

Hopefully this bypass will be built eventually. Will the CA-58/US 395 junction have an interchange? I think it would be foolish to have the two highways meet at-grade.

Talked about this previously; right now the emphasis is geared toward completion of CA 58 as at least a 4-lane expressway from Barstow to Bakersfield to accommodate the extremely high volume of commercial traffic, most of which originates from or alternately segues onto I-40.  However, US 395 is finding increasing use as part of an ersatz "L.A. Metro" bypass, using CA 58 west of Kramer.  Although not yet formally adopted, a N-S freeway through Adelanto west of the present US 395 alignment has been in discussion for over a decade, prompted by the outsized growth of Adelanto as a "relatively affordable" L.A./Inland Empire exurb.  But the 2-lane (with the occasional passing lane) section of 395 between Adelanto and CA 58 is increasingly becoming a chokepoint due to this more recent bypass role.  But the present funding/deployment effort is concentrated on CA 58; that will have to be effectively completed before Caltrans' D8 can regroup and plan its next desert improvement -- assuming that the High Desert Corridor remains planned as a stand-alone tolled project.  I'd expect to see a 4-lane expressway treatment applied to that portion of US 395, with some full-free-movement interchange with 58.  Might be a simple cloverleaf with C/D lanes for both routes; but optimally at least a turbine-style flyover from NB 395 to WB 58 to expedite the main direction of commercial flow would be part of the plans.  But since the 58 Kramer bypass will likely be completed about 2021, it'll be several funding cycles before a 395 improvement hits the actual planning stages -- AFAIK, there's not a N-S bypass alignment that has been formally adopted as of yet.   I hate to say it -- but some sort of well-reported tragedy on that stretch of 395 might well be necessary as a "kick in the ass" regarding advancing some concrete action on that corridor. 

[skluth]

The project fact sheet shows a combination interchange at the US 395/CA 58 intersection with diamond ramps on westbound CA 58 and a parclo on the SE quadrant for eastbound traffic. I haven't seen any plans for a new US 395 expressway south to I-15. Should one be built, I think free-flowing ramps connecting CA 58 to the west to US 395 to the south should be built, but I don't see the need to pay for any other free-flowing ramps.

I took US 395/CA 58 pseudo LA bypass a couple months ago between Palm Springs to Bakersfield. It worked well - better than I-210 and the Grapevine - but I came back via Barstow and Yucca Valley which worked even better. I'm not sure I'd like the route between Barstow and Yucca Valley improved much as traffic is currently quite light and it might make CA 60 from I-10 to Joshua Tree too busy (and there is no room to widen it further).

[Kniwt]

but I came back via Barstow and Yucca Valley which worked even better.

I'm glad you didn't run into trouble on that route ... but every time I try it, between Yucca Valley and Lucerne Valley, there's a whole assortment of slow-moving vehicles of various types (trucks, tourists, decrepit local vehicles of unknown provenance, etc.) that make it a frustrating pain in the you-know-what.

[sparker]

but I came back via Barstow and Yucca Valley which worked even better.

I'm glad you didn't run into trouble on that route ... but every time I try it, between Yucca Valley and Lucerne Valley, there's a whole assortment of slow-moving vehicles of various types (trucks, tourists, decrepit local vehicles of unknown provenance, etc.) that make it a frustrating pain in the you-know-what.

I've done 247 numerous times, and never found it particularly difficult to pass slower vehicles.  My own assessment of that existing corridor is that CA 62 between I-10 and CA 247 is a major PITA due to (a) the deplorable pavement quality of CA 62 between I-10 and Morongo Canyon, (b) slow vehicles and general driver idiocy within that curvy canyon alignment (one of the hairier 4-lane expressway segments on the state system -- not as bad as CA 17 between Santa Cruz and Los Gatos, but a close 2nd), and (c) the slog through local traffic and signals in Morongo and Yucca Valleys.  I'm generally relieved once out in the desert north of Y.V.; usually have been able to make up lost time there.

[ClassicHasClass]

I took US 395/CA 58 pseudo LA bypass a couple months ago between Palm Springs to Bakersfield.

This is exactly what I do to drive to Sacramento (picking up CA 99 in Bakersfield).

[Max Rockatansky]

I took US 395/CA 58 pseudo LA bypass a couple months ago between Palm Springs to Bakersfield.

This is exactly what I do to drive to Sacramento (picking up CA 99 in Bakersfield).

It's pretty much my go-to route to get to San Diego.  Sometimes I mix it up slightly and take 138 instead of 58/395.  Traffic is so bad on 5 and 405 that the 30 extra miles is worth it.  Yeah   

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^
Unless you're going through the L.A. basin at night, there's little if any certainty that you'll be able to make the trip without encountering congestion.  If your trip starts anywhere south of O.C. or east of Pomona, the 395/58 combination or, as Max avers, CA 138/14 as an alternative (if you "backtrack" on Pearblossom Highway to avoid slogging through the east side of Palmdale) works reasonably well to get to the San Joaquin Valley.  And CA 99's a more interesting if marginally more time-consuming alternative to I-5 once in the valley (and, unless you're completely inured to fast food, a route with generally more variety in regards to places to take a break!).  Just wish there was some action toward a 395 upgrade -- but can completely understand Caltrans' desire to get 58 done first because of its role as a primary commercial corridor.