What is a Super-2, really?

[NE2]

[Split from the "things that irk you about roads" thread. -S.]

People who stick stubbornly to bogus roadgeek definitions such as Super 2 meaning a two-lane freeway. croissants.


Relevant reply to this post, as part of a post that mostly belongs in the other thread:

My understanding was that "Super 2" meant a two-lane, undivided road that had all the other characteristics of a freeway (full grade separation) but couldn't be called a freeway because a freeway is divided by definition.  And I thought "Super 2 Expressway" referred to a two-lane, undivided road that had grade separations and interchanges as well as some at-grade intersections.  Of course, if you use the standard definitions of "freeway," "expressway," and "conventional road," both Super 2s and Super 2 Expressways fall into the "conventional road" category.

While we're at it, I get annoyed when people stubbornly think an expressway cannot have driveways or private road access points, even though that isn't a universally accepted part of the definition of "expressway."  The road categories should refer to physical characteristics, not legal ones.

[Rothman]

People who stick stubbornly to bogus roadgeek definitions such as Super 2 meaning a two-lane freeway. croissants.

But a Super-2 is a two-lane freeway.

[jakeroot]

People who stick stubbornly to bogus roadgeek definitions such as Super 2 meaning a two-lane freeway. croissants.

But a Super-2 is a two-lane freeway.

Indeed. Any road with controlled access, by means of dividing the carriageways, and providing under- or over-passes at crossings, is a freeway. Super-2s are pretty lame freeways. But they are freeways regardless.

[NE2]

A Super 2, as used by non-roadgeeks, is a high-speed two-lane road with frequent passing lanes.
http://onlinemanuals.txdot.gov/txdotmanuals/rdw/super_2_highways.htm
http://www.roads.nebraska.gov/media/4678/super-2-fact-sheet.pdf
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/MDOT_M15_N1_chap3_128300_7.pdf

[1995hoo]

Regarding "super-2," I can't say I ever recall hearing any non-roadgeek ever using that term. If I said it, most people I know would probably think I said "Super Tuesday" (living in the DC area no doubt has an effect there!).

[J N Winkler]

Regarding "super-2," I can't say I ever recall hearing any non-roadgeek ever using that term. If I said it, most people I know would probably think I said "Super Tuesday" (living in the DC area no doubt has an effect there!).

My father--who is not a roadgeek by any means--has used the term Super Two, as defined by state DOT engineers in the official documentation NE2 has cited (i.e., wide cross section with full shoulders and enhanced provision of passing lanes, not necessarily comprehensive grade separation or access control).  I suspect media consumers in Kansas have more awareness of the term because upgrades to Super Two have been major modernization/expansion elements in the decadelong highway programs that have been pursued since 1990.  States neighboring Kansas are starting to catch up by stepping up investment in their two-lane systems, which is probably part of the reason one of the Super Two links NE2 found goes to a Nebraska DOR flyer with Build Nebraska Act branding.

Super Two upgrades are holistic and typically involve some elements not just of passing lane construction and shoulder widening, but also relocation as needed to secure geometric improvements and partial (usually not full) control of access.  The goal is to secure a higher level of traffic operations and modestly increase capacity.

The American roadgeek community would probably be better off adopting the term semi-freeway for highly improved two-lane roads that have comprehensive grade separation with full control of access, rather than restricting Super Two exclusively to roads of this type.  Roadgeek terms that actively conflict with official state DOT usage are worse than informalisms like big green sign.  Semi-freeway is nicely analogous with the term semi-motorway used in British English to refer to the European equivalent, which is usually (not always) signed with the "happy car" sign.

My understanding was that "Super 2" meant a two-lane, undivided road that had all the other characteristics of a freeway (full grade separation) but couldn't be called a freeway because a freeway is divided by definition.

This is the roadgeek usage that conflicts with state DOT roadway design manual definitions.  Semi-freeway avoids the whole question of whether freeway always implies divided construction with a sterile median (I am not sure the AASHTO definition does, but the MUTCD one definitely does).

And I thought "Super 2 Expressway" referred to a two-lane, undivided road that had grade separations and interchanges as well as some at-grade intersections.  Of course, if you use the standard definitions of "freeway," "expressway," and "conventional road," both Super 2s and Super 2 Expressways fall into the "conventional road" category.

I am not sure I have ever seen the term Super Two expressway.  However, two-lane expressway is the Caltrans term for Super Two. 

While we're at it, I get annoyed when people stubbornly think an expressway cannot have driveways or private road access points, even though that isn't a universally accepted part of the definition of "expressway."  The road categories should refer to physical characteristics, not legal ones.

Everyone uses roads, so everyone has an opinion, and we never escape the noob syndrome, which includes a tendency to universalize regionalisms--"the the the the" for route numbers, "expressway" for urban freeways, etc.

[kphoger]

Re:  Super-2

I do occasionally use the term "Super-2" casually in the roadgeek sense, but I do so knowing full well that it's not actually what the term means.  Because of this inconsistency, more and more I've been calling two-lane freeways "two-lane freeways."  Seems pretty simple.

For those of you who had no idea till this thread that "Super-2" meant something else officially... What did you think a "Super-4" was?

[hbelkins]

To me, THE defining characteristic of a Super 2 is that it is what Kentucky calls a limited-access road -- that is, a road that only has intersections at grade-separated interchanges. It doesn't necessarily need truck climbing or passing lanes, but it must have-grade separated intersections. A road ceases to be a Super 2 if it has at-grade intersections.

For instance, I do not consider the Mountain Parkway a Super 2 anymore because an at-grade intersection was installed at KY 134 in Magoffin County.

[kphoger]

To me, THE defining characteristic of a Super 2 is that it is what Kentucky calls a limited-access road -- that is, a road that only has intersections at grade-separated interchanges. It doesn't necessarily need truck climbing or passing lanes, but it must have-grade separated intersections. A road ceases to be a Super 2 if it has at-grade intersections.

For instance, I do not consider the Mountain Parkway a Super 2 anymore because an at-grade intersection was installed at KY 134 in Magoffin County.

That's the roadgeek definition.  It is not how DOTs define the term.  And roadgeeks going by a definition other than that of the DOTs is precisely what irks NE2 about roads the most.  (well, actually, I doubt it)

[vdeane]

Maybe the DOTs should have looked to see that the term they wanted to coin was not already in use.  Personally, though, I don't see why these DOTs need to have a special term for what can be summed up as "modern roadway standards".

[Ned Weasel]

For those of you who had no idea till this thread that "Super-2" meant something else officially... What did you think a "Super-4" was?

I thought a Super 4 was a four-lane, undivided freeway or expressway.

[J N Winkler]

Maybe the DOTs should have looked to see that the term they wanted to coin was not already in use.  Personally, though, I don't see why these DOTs need to have a special term for what can be summed up as "modern roadway standards".

The DOT definition came first.  I remember being told about Super Twos in the mid-nineties, before MTR was set up.

For those of you who had no idea till this thread that "Super-2" meant something else officially... What did you think a "Super-4" was?

A logical four-lane extension of the Super Two as defined by roadgeeks would be a freeway with two lanes in both the up and down direction, but no median.  I distinctly recall that a facility of this type used to exist in western Washington somewhere along the segments of US 12 and SR 8 that allow US 101 traffic to short-cut to the end of the route without going all the way round the Olympic Peninsula.  However, I cannot find it in satellite imagery, so I suspect it has been reconstructed out of existence.

I agree that R3-7 is not the best, and R3-8 is better.  But still, both of those are actually regulatory, whereas W4-2 is not.

I agree the preferred solution for trap lanes at intersections is regulatory, not warning.  Here's an example of the solution using R3-5:

R3-5 with "Right Lane" supplementary plate for right turn lane along Houghton Road in Tucson, Arizona (recent StreetView)

R3-5, same location, without supplementary plate (2011 StreetView)

[J N Winkler]

I've seen this done extensively in Texas, and I like it (as I like a lot of things Texas does with its highways).

You like poor-boys?

[jwolfer]

I've seen this done extensively in Texas, and I like it (as I like a lot of things Texas does with its highways).

You like poor-boys?

That is horrible.. Straight out of 1955

LGMS428

[J N Winkler]

I've seen this done extensively in Texas, and I like it (as I like a lot of things Texas does with its highways).

You like poor-boys?

That is horrible.. Straight out of 1955

LGMS428

It is even worse to drive on than it looks.  TxDOT apparently specifies (or used to specify) a higher crossfall for shoulders than for the traveled way, and many of these poor-boys were built simply by restriping and building out shoulders where necessary, without revising the crossfall.  Keeping right except to pass (as every civilized person should do) entails steering actively against the crossfall and is therefore very wearing on the car and tiring for the driver.

[jwolfer]

I've seen this done extensively in Texas, and I like it (as I like a lot of things Texas does with its highways).

You like poor-boys?

That is horrible.. Straight out of 1955

LGMS428

It is even worse to drive on than it looks.  TxDOT apparently specifies (or used to specify) a higher crossfall for shoulders than for the traveled way, and many of these poor-boys were built simply by restriping and building out shoulders where necessary, without revising the crossfall.  Keeping right except to pass (as every civilized person should do) entails steering actively against the crossfall and is therefore very wearing on the car and tiring for the driver.

And Texas builds 5 stacks etc.. You would think with available land in rural areas you would see. At least a full center turn lane like GA or NC

What annoying is that road looks the same in Rand McNally as US 301 on Eastern Shore of Maryland

LGMS428

[Buffaboy]

To me, THE defining characteristic of a Super 2 is that it is what Kentucky calls a limited-access road -- that is, a road that only has intersections at grade-separated interchanges. It doesn't necessarily need truck climbing or passing lanes, but it must have-grade separated intersections. A road ceases to be a Super 2 if it has at-grade intersections.

For instance, I do not consider the Mountain Parkway a Super 2 anymore because an at-grade intersection was installed at KY 134 in Magoffin County.

Another good poster child for a Super 2 is part of US 6 on Cape Cod.

[kphoger]

I've seen this done extensively in Texas, and I like it (as I like a lot of things Texas does with its highways).

You like poor-boys?

In any other state, most of those poor-boys would still be two lanes.  So, in that sense, yes I do like them.  My now-preferred route to México includes a handful of poor-boy segments, the busiest of which is US-277 between Wichita Falls and Holliday.  With much lower traffic volumes, US-277 between Sonora and Del Rio has several of its passing lanes mirrored, such that there is a poor-boy setup for a few miles at a time; most of those passing lanes are probably overkill, but a full-blown median would definitely be overkill.

For those of you who had no idea till this thread that "Super-2" meant something else officially... What did you think a "Super-4" was?

A logical four-lane extension of the Super Two as defined by roadgeeks would be a freeway with two lanes in both the up and down direction, but no median.  I distinctly recall that a facility of this type used to exist in western Washington somewhere along the segments of US 12 and SR 8 that allow US 101 traffic to short-cut to the end of the route without going all the way round the Olympic Peninsula.  However, I cannot find it in satellite imagery, so I suspect it has been reconstructed out of existence.

A Super-4 is a divided highway built to modern standards, with at-grade intersections but limited access where necessary–such that it can be driven at higher speeds without it being a freeway.  I'm really struggling to find this definition spelled out online, but I specifically recall the term being applied to the upgrade of IL-13 between Marion and Harrisburg (which is signed at 65 mph rather than 55 mph).  As a Super-4 is not a freeway, then it stands to reason a Super-2 is not a freeway either.

[jakeroot]

What's the difference between a standard two lane highway with passing lanes, and a Super-2?

[kphoger]

What's the difference between a standard two lane highway with passing lanes, and a Super-2?

There's more to Super-2 standards than just passing lanes:
- A good deal of limited access, even though not fully controlled access (most evident near towns) 
- Tight curves straightened out
- Grade separation at major junctions
- Wide shoulders

[J N Winkler]

What's the difference between a standard two lane highway with passing lanes, and a Super-2?

None really, except that Super Two implies full shoulders with geometry, roadside development, and access control to generally higher standards.

In any other state, most of those poor-boys would still be two lanes.  So, in that sense, yes I do like them.  My now-preferred route to México includes a handful of poor-boy segments, the busiest of which is US-277 between Wichita Falls and Holliday.  With much lower traffic volumes, US-277 between Sonora and Del Rio has several of its passing lanes mirrored, such that there is a poor-boy setup for a few miles at a time; most of those passing lanes are probably overkill, but a full-blown median would definitely be overkill.

It is usually possible to find a state that is more scrofulous than the one under discussion, but I would contend that the poor-boys are a sign the rural off-Interstate primary network in Texas is seriously starved of investment.  Another symptom is that it is chip-sealed to death.

In Texas, US 290 is poor-boy all the way from Johnson City to Fredericksburg, with AADTs varying from 9000 VPD to about 14,000 VPD.  In Kansas, US 54 is four-lane divided all the way from just west of Goddard to just east of Kingman, with AADTs varying from 6000 VPD to about 11,000 VPD.

In Texas, US 87 is poor-boy from Fredericksburg nearly all the way to Comfort, with AADTs varying from 3000 VPD to about 6000 VPD.  But the geometry is so poor it is a stressful drive at the posted limit of (I think) 70.  In comparison, US 50 between Newton and Emporia spans a similar AADT range with passing lanes and the geometry is commodious enough to support comfortable cruising at 65 as well as overtaking maneuvers at much higher speeds without any sense of challenging tire tread adhesion on curves.

Besides the lack of any separation between opposing lanes of traffic to prevent or mitigate crossover accidents, provision of speed-change facilities on poor-boys tends to be very parsimonious, which stands in stark contrast to Kansas, where state highway intersections tend to be built out for quite a considerable length to make it quite easy for through traffic to get past turning traffic.  Here is a turnoff to a major tourist destination (star/diamond-rated by AAA for many years) that does not have a speed-change lane:

PR 52 intersection leading to LBJ ranch

Contrast this with fairly typical provision in Kansas:

US 77/K-4 north of Herington

When TxDOT fully reconstructs two-lane primary state highways, the result is much closer to what is provided in Kansas.  One example of such--not available yet on StreetView, unfortunately--is US 281 through Hamilton County, between Hico and Evant.  When I drove this en route to the Hill Country in late October, I found this to be by far the easiest and most pleasant part of US 281 between Jacksboro and the start of the US 281 poor-boy/four-lane-divided combination at Lampasas.  (This, by the way, was significantly easier to drive than US 290 between Johnson City and Fredericksburg, I think because it had received full-depth reconstruction to provide a consistent crossfall.)

[jakeroot]

What's the difference between a standard two lane highway with passing lanes, and a Super-2?

There's more to Super-2 standards than just passing lanes:
- A good deal of limited access, even though not fully controlled access (most evident near towns) 
- Tight curves straightened out
- Grade separation at major junctions
- Wide shoulders

With all due respect, that criteria leaves a lot to opinion. I prefer my definition, it's a lot simpler (even if it's different than some DOTs): any two/three lane highway with grade separation.

As an example, if you have a two/three lane highway, that for 5 miles near a city has grade separation, I would say that "Highway [whatever] is a 'highway', except near [city], where it's a 'Super-2'.

What's the difference between a standard two lane highway with passing lanes, and a Super-2?

None really, except that Super Two implies full shoulders with geometry, roadside development, and access control to generally higher standards.

So basically every modern two lane highway is a Super-2? What's a two lane highway with grade separation? A super-super-2? AFAIC, it's more important to discern between highways with grade separation, and those without. IMO, Super-2 should be reserved exclusively for highways with grade separarion.

[J N Winkler]

What's the difference between a standard two lane highway with passing lanes, and a Super-2?

None really, except that Super Two implies full shoulders with geometry, roadside development, and access control to generally higher standards.

So basically every modern two lane highway is a Super-2?

If "modern" implies provision of passing lanes, full shoulders, limitation of access, and high-standard geometry--yes.

What's a two lane highway with grade separation?

It is a semi-freeway or (if you prefer Kyle's term, which is more intuitive) a two-lane freeway.  A Briton might call it a single-carriageway motorway, a Spaniard might call it a vía rápida, etc.

IMO, Super-2 should be reserved exclusively for highways with grade separation.

Nope.  It invites communications failures because of the conflict with the older DOT definition.  States vary considerably in the extent to which they have modernized their two-lane rural primary state highways (as well as the speed limits they assign to them), so there is still considerable value in having separate terms for highly improved two-lane roads with and without comprehensive grade separation.

[jeffandnicole]

A Super-4 is a divided highway built to modern standards, with at-grade intersections but limited access where necessary— such that it can be driven at higher speeds without it being a freeway.  I'm really struggling to find this definition spelled out online, but I specifically recall the term being applied to the upgrade of IL-13 between Marion and Harrisburg (which is signed at 65 mph rather than 55 mph).  As a Super-4 is not a freeway, then it stands to reason a Super-2 is not a freeway either.

That's about as made-up of a name as you can get.  Some states allow 65 mph or higher on non-limited access roadways.  This just seems like some sort of guideline Illinois has in place that non-limited access roads can't be signed higher than 55.  If it's a 4 lane, divided highway, then it's a highway.

(Since terminology varies as well, then this is a freeway/highway/whatever)

[kphoger]

A Super-4 is ...

That's about as made-up of a name as you can get.

Only as made-up of a name as 'Super-2.'  And if we're going to eschew the actual definition of 'Super-2' as used by people who actually design state highways for a living, in favor of something that just sounds right to our ears because we've been using it incorrectly all this time, then why bother asking what any of these terms actually mean at all?