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Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33904.0
Corrected several already and appreciate your patience as we work through the rest.

Poll

AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California?

Yay
- 19 (57.6%)
Nay
- 14 (42.4%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Voting closed: July 09, 2019, 05:04:32 PM


Author Topic: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California  (Read 9636 times)

bing101

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AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« on: April 01, 2019, 05:02:00 PM »

WHEREAS, there are plans to extend Interstate 70 along the I-15 Interchange to the US-101 Interchange corridor from Amarillo, TX to Denver, CO;

WHEREAS, there are plans to create a new East-West freeway in the Rockies to the West Coast;


NOW THEREFORE, Interstate 70 shall be routed from Cove Fort, UT to San Jose, CA

All Interstate signage along the route will be updated, with priority at interchanges with other Interstates.

This bill does preclude an extension or rerouting of the current route.

This bill shall be effective immediately.

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X99

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2019, 05:04:17 PM »

 :-D
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kphoger

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2019, 06:34:53 PM »

OK
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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2019, 07:15:35 PM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?
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X99

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2019, 10:01:41 PM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?
He directly duplicated my post, with a few road name changes. Since when were Amarillo and Denver between I-15 and US 101?
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2019, 10:49:59 PM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?
He directly duplicated my post, with a few road name changes. Since when were Amarillo and Denver between I-15 and US 101?

I was thinking back to the old days where he was proposing bat shit crazy Trans-Sierra Highways over 12,000 feet. 
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X99

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2019, 11:19:40 PM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?
He directly duplicated my post, with a few road name changes. Since when were Amarillo and Denver between I-15 and US 101?

I was thinking back to the old days where he was proposing bat shit crazy Trans-Sierra Highways over 12,000 feet.
Who was? Bing or Fritz?
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ClassicHasClass

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2019, 11:23:21 PM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?

Good times. The park fees and the tolls necessary to pay for the snowplows should make that the lowest AADTs in America. ;)
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kphoger

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2019, 02:07:37 PM »

Since when were Amarillo and Denver between I-15 and US 101?

That was the April Fool.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2019, 10:35:34 PM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?

Good times. The park fees and the tolls necessary to pay for the snowplows should make that the lowest AADTs in America. ;)

His solution to the 8% natural grade of Lee Vining Canyon was to zig-zag the canyon walls or blast a massive freeway size tunnel.  I never did quite get the details on the freeway planned to cross the Sierras via Kings Canyon.  I’m sure a narrow 8,200 foot deep canyon is perfectly suitable for a full grade Interstate.   :meh:
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X99

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2019, 10:35:16 AM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?

Good times. The park fees and the tolls necessary to pay for the snowplows should make that the lowest AADTs in America. ;)

His solution to the 8% natural grade of Lee Vining Canyon was to zig-zag the canyon walls or blast a massive freeway size tunnel.  I never did quite get the details on the freeway planned to cross the Sierras via Kings Canyon.  I’m sure a narrow 8,200 foot deep canyon is perfectly suitable for a full grade Interstate.   :meh:
If you're trying to cross an 8200 foot deep canyon, do it with a vidauct at the top if possible. France did a viaduct across a valley like that, so we could beat them height-wise.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2019, 10:43:23 AM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?

Good times. The park fees and the tolls necessary to pay for the snowplows should make that the lowest AADTs in America. ;)

His solution to the 8% natural grade of Lee Vining Canyon was to zig-zag the canyon walls or blast a massive freeway size tunnel.  I never did quite get the details on the freeway planned to cross the Sierras via Kings Canyon.  I’m sure a narrow 8,200 foot deep canyon is perfectly suitable for a full grade Interstate.   :meh:
If you're trying to cross an 8200 foot deep canyon, do it with a vidauct at the top if possible. France did a viaduct across a valley like that, so we could beat them height-wise.

It wasn’t so much he was trying cross the canyon but run his Interstate through the middle of it.  CA 180 is barely wide enough for two lanes as is and boasting cliffs that vertically high is laughable.  Put it this way two cars dropped 600 feet into the Kings River last year and they can’t be recovered. 
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X99

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2019, 10:53:28 AM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?

Good times. The park fees and the tolls necessary to pay for the snowplows should make that the lowest AADTs in America. ;)

His solution to the 8% natural grade of Lee Vining Canyon was to zig-zag the canyon walls or blast a massive freeway size tunnel.  I never did quite get the details on the freeway planned to cross the Sierras via Kings Canyon.  I’m sure a narrow 8,200 foot deep canyon is perfectly suitable for a full grade Interstate.   :meh:
If you're trying to cross an 8200 foot deep canyon, do it with a vidauct at the top if possible. France did a viaduct across a valley like that, so we could beat them height-wise.

It wasn’t so much he was trying cross the canyon but run his Interstate through the middle of it.
You mean running the length of the canyon?
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2019, 10:54:30 AM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?

Good times. The park fees and the tolls necessary to pay for the snowplows should make that the lowest AADTs in America. ;)

His solution to the 8% natural grade of Lee Vining Canyon was to zig-zag the canyon walls or blast a massive freeway size tunnel.  I never did quite get the details on the freeway planned to cross the Sierras via Kings Canyon.  I’m sure a narrow 8,200 foot deep canyon is perfectly suitable for a full grade Interstate.   :meh:
If you're trying to cross an 8200 foot deep canyon, do it with a vidauct at the top if possible. France did a viaduct across a valley like that, so we could beat them height-wise.

It wasn’t so much he was trying cross the canyon but run his Interstate through the middle of it.
You mean running the length of the canyon?

Yep, that was the idea. 
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X99

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2019, 10:56:50 AM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?

Good times. The park fees and the tolls necessary to pay for the snowplows should make that the lowest AADTs in America. ;)

His solution to the 8% natural grade of Lee Vining Canyon was to zig-zag the canyon walls or blast a massive freeway size tunnel.  I never did quite get the details on the freeway planned to cross the Sierras via Kings Canyon.  I’m sure a narrow 8,200 foot deep canyon is perfectly suitable for a full grade Interstate.   :meh:
If you're trying to cross an 8200 foot deep canyon, do it with a vidauct at the top if possible. France did a viaduct across a valley like that, so we could beat them height-wise.

It wasn’t so much he was trying cross the canyon but run his Interstate through the middle of it.
You mean running the length of the canyon?

Yep, that was the idea.
Then it would beat France's viaduct heightwise and lengthwise.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2019, 01:40:47 PM »

So I take it this a full FritzOwl plan that will obliterate Tioga Pass with a 30 mile tunnel?

Good times. The park fees and the tolls necessary to pay for the snowplows should make that the lowest AADTs in America. ;)

His solution to the 8% natural grade of Lee Vining Canyon was to zig-zag the canyon walls or blast a massive freeway size tunnel.  I never did quite get the details on the freeway planned to cross the Sierras via Kings Canyon.  I’m sure a narrow 8,200 foot deep canyon is perfectly suitable for a full grade Interstate.   :meh:
If you're trying to cross an 8200 foot deep canyon, do it with a vidauct at the top if possible. France did a viaduct across a valley like that, so we could beat them height-wise.

It wasn’t so much he was trying cross the canyon but run his Interstate through the middle of it.
You mean running the length of the canyon?

Yep, that was the idea.
Then it would beat France's viaduct heightwise and lengthwise.

What’s really interesting is trying to find a viable place for a highway in general much less an Interstate standard freeway somewhere in the Central Sierras.  The best bet would be the latest proposed route of CA 190 which can be seen on this map from 2005:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/thumbnailView.html?startUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch%3Fos%3D0%26lc%3DRUMSEY~8~1%26q%3DCaltrans%202005%26sort%3DPub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No%26bs%3D10#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=4530%2C7065%2C350%2C620

What I like about this design is the huge sweeping southern jog CA 190 would use to climb the eastern Sierras at a relatively shallow grade.  The crossing of the Kern River Fault is also at one of the shallowest places which would leave the Middle Fork Tule River which is already part of CA 190 as the last leg to San Joaquin Valley. 
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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2023, 06:16:13 PM »

What would win most political & defense support (because Interstate highways were started with a decree called the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act), is to extend it all the way to CA-41 in the Sierra Nevada foothills, branching off to Fresno and the eastern terminus of CA-152. It would be worth it, even if not an interstate. To save hundreds of thousands of tons of co2 a year by avoiding dog-legging when traveling from the CA Central Valley to Salt Lake City, Denver or Las Vegas. The benefit is making a more direct, all season route over the Sierra’s and then another path to Las Vegas from Northern California. Barstow is like a choke point for SoCal to Las Vegas / points north, and there’s no other high capacity route near Barstow for Defense purposes.

It could be built “interstate-ready” as a two lane US Highway with ROW secured and set aside, which would satisfy current demand for such an alignment and be just as fast to drive on as an interstate.

You have to consider where people and freight would be coming from, and where it's going. It's not just about roadtrippers and passenger rail.

After browsing over Google Earth, I came up with a rough alignment that stays far enough away north from the military installations in Southern Nevada and doesn't go too far north to sap cross-country traffic from I-80. Going West from Cove Fort, UT.:

1: extend the terminus and make it a 3 level interchange, and align the road south of Cinder Crater

2: Cut and fill, and then tunnel under the ridgeline of this gap 38N 33'20N 112W 48'17. This avoids most ecological opposition.

3: align south-west between Beaver Harrison Mine and Rocky Range HP, before meeting up with UT-21 east of Frisco, UT.

4: Use UT-21s alignment to pass the next two mountain ranges in your way.

5: Cut southwest and begin building on virgin land until Warm Springs, NV. Mountain Pass north of Indian Peak, then north of White Rock Peak, Cross the Hamlin Valley to the Nevada state line, close to these coordinates 38N 07' 44 114W 03' 26. Use the alignment of the dirt road here as a guide for the interstate to cross over this range northwest of the Tanker 11 Memorial site.

6: Going due west across this basin and align the interstate in the gap between Parsnip Peak and Mt Wilson. Keep in mind a lot of this land is still wild and special ecological considerations will need to be made with many, many wildlife crossing and large culverts. Many special measures are needed to mitigate the pollution impact of the road.

7: Cross US-93 at the Pony Springs Rest Area, build on the alignment of the existing dirt road here to cross this range. Continue using the dirt road as an alignment guide due west until NV-318. Services will naturally set up shop along this high desert route, and if there are gaps the DOT can offer enticements.

8: Cross the seasonal river (I don't know the name, not much is labeled here on Google Earth), and zig zag around rocky outcroppings until needing to bore a 4 mile long base tunnel between a place labeled Adaven and Troy Peak somewhere close to 38N 15'06 115W 31'13.

9: Cross this valley and meet up with NV-375. Continue into Tonopah, and from here on Upgrade US-6 and US-95 to Interstate Standard. The interstate through Warm Springs, Tonopah, Millers, Coaldale, NV, then into California via Benton, CA upgrading US-6 all the way to Bishop, CA.

10: Create a Bypass around Bishop, avoiding Native sites and existing homes.

11: This is going to be the hardest and most ambitious of the entire project. Use the valley that CA-168 is in to route the interstate close to the trailhead there, for a twin-bore, 30 mile base tunnel to cross the Sierra Nevada underneath the Sierra National Forest. Have the tunnel come out Close to Tamarack Snow Park on the west side of the foothills where CA-168 turns north towards Huntington Lake. This will avoid major opposition to tunneling under Yosemite, and not disrupt the Huntington Lake area.

Major consideration will have to be made if there are to be more than 2 TBMs on each end. Shafts will have to be made for ventilation, and special consideration and engineering to combat tunnel pollution from blowing into Goddard Canyon and the like. Depending on the elevation profile of the line and geology the tunnel may have to be split into two parts at Goddard Canyon, to keep a grade. Grade should be made to slope downwards in the westbound direction so road dust can wash into California and not into the Great Basin. A deal may have to be made where the tunnel can be bored, but only on the condition that it does not touch the land surface of Sierra National Forest.

The road tunnel could be made very interesting for drivers and safer by having America's only underground rest areas. This is an opportunity to create a unique tourism opportunity in North America by making a mountain-peak lodge connected by an elevator shaft with parking structures and services next to the road tunnel. HazMat trucks can pass through the tunnel but only if they are driven inside of a special, steel encased, oversized Ro-Ro HazMat Truck Carrier.

12: Come down the Sierra Nevada Foothills using the rough alignment of CA-168 until reaching Prather, CA.

13: Build a 1 to 1 and 1/2 mile tunnel at the 90+ degree bend downhill at Big Sandy Bluff to avoid the town of Prather and to cut a direct path west. Alignment south of Auberry, CA, use the upper part of the San Joaquin River Gorge to drop 1000 feet in elevation right before the river turns into a reservoir. May need to build a 500-800' viaduct.

14: Cut and Fill due west towards Indian Springs, meeting up with CA-41. From Here the interstate branches in two. A south Branch to Fresno using the CA-41 alignment and a westerly Branch terminating at the current eastern terminus of CA-152 - for future interstate extension to Gilroy, CA.

The main benefit is food flow, to allow trucks a direct path from California Central Valley processing plants to distributors on the Front Range and Points East. Such an interstate alignment would save truck drivers nearly a whole driving day while adding a second mountain pass over the Central Sierras. Such a interstate route would save hours driving from Las Vegas to the SF Bay Area, and cross Future Interstate 11. It would eliminate the dog legs Bay Area residents have to take to drive to Southern Utah, Colorado, and Las Vegas - some of America's high population growth areas. It would put the US on top again with road infrastructure, by eliminating a missing east-west interstate corridor.

Edit: First Post.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2023, 06:31:04 PM »

Might want to check the date of the original post...
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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2023, 04:21:31 AM »

I just don't see the need. There's a whole lotta nuthin west of the end of I-70, until you actually get over the Sierra Nevada into the Central Valley. That's about 500 miles, and the biggest population center along the way would be Bishop.

I'm all for another road over the Sierra Nevada, but a nice two-lane scenic route, like closing the CA-190 gap.
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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2023, 05:19:59 AM »

I just don't see the need. There's a whole lotta nuthin west of the end of I-70, until you actually get over the Sierra Nevada into the Central Valley. That's about 500 miles, and the biggest population center along the way would be Bishop.

I'm all for another road over the Sierra Nevada, but a nice two-lane scenic route, like closing the CA-190 gap.

This is why I really wish we could just break the rules and sign Sherman Pass Road as CA-190. It is more southerly, but when it's open, it is effectively a CA-190 continuation in all but the actual number. Although I'm glad it's not signed as such, because it seems to make the road a little less traveled, which is nice. Plus it offers some great views, you can see Mt. Whitney pretty easily from the lookout at the actual pass. The descent from Kennedy Meadows down into the Owens Valley is really nice.
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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2023, 05:34:20 AM »

Move this zombie thread to Fictional.
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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2023, 07:55:16 AM »

I just don't see the need. There's a whole lotta nuthin west of the end of I-70, until you actually get over the Sierra Nevada into the Central Valley. That's about 500 miles, and the biggest population center along the way would be Bishop.

I'm all for another road over the Sierra Nevada, but a nice two-lane scenic route, like closing the CA-190 gap.

This is why I really wish we could just break the rules and sign Sherman Pass Road as CA-190. It is more southerly, but when it's open, it is effectively a CA-190 continuation in all but the actual number. Although I'm glad it's not signed as such, because it seems to make the road a little less traveled, which is nice. Plus it offers some great views, you can see Mt. Whitney pretty easily from the lookout at the actual pass. The descent from Kennedy Meadows down into the Owens Valley is really nice.

It’s kind of amusing the the Forest Service managed to sneak Sherman Pass Road in post CEQA and NEPA.  Nobody probably even noticed because it didn’t carry the brand recognition of “state highway.”
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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2023, 11:09:44 AM »

Why isn't this in Fictional?
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Re: AAroads Bill 3: An Act to extend Interstate 70 to California
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2023, 11:38:00 AM »

Why isn't this in Fictional?

It’s a 4 year old April Fool’s joke from 2019.
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