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Tropical cyclone tracking thread

Started by CNGL-Leudimin, May 07, 2015, 11:08:01 AM

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CNGL-Leudimin

In the case one Greek letter gets retired... well, it wouldn't get retired. It would be listed among the retired names, with a footnote saying it would be used again if needed. As for the problem of running out of names, they could switch to what is done in the typhoon basin (the Western Pacific), one long list that goes through regardless of the year, and when the end is reached (Saola) they return to the start (Damrey).
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.


US71

Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

Scott5114

Quote from: US71 on September 11, 2020, 06:27:09 PM
"Letters of the Greek alphabet that are used for tropical systems cannot be retired."

Well, of course they can't. If we started retiring Greek letters, how would Greek people be able to spell anything?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

hotdogPi

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 13, 2020, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: US71 on September 11, 2020, 06:27:09 PM
"Letters of the Greek alphabet that are used for tropical systems cannot be retired."

Well, of course they can't. If we started retiring Greek letters, how would Greek people be able to spell anything?

The number 42 has been retired. We still use the number.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

US71

Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2020, 08:02:56 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 13, 2020, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: US71 on September 11, 2020, 06:27:09 PM
"Letters of the Greek alphabet that are used for tropical systems cannot be retired."

Well, of course they can't. If we started retiring Greek letters, how would Greek people be able to spell anything?

The number 42 has been retired. We still use the number.

This isn't baseball.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

kalvado

Quote from: US71 on September 11, 2020, 06:27:09 PM
"Letters of the Greek alphabet that are used for tropical systems cannot be retired."

From https://www.wwltv.com/article/weather/accuweather/greek-alphabet-may-be-used-for-only-2nd-time-in-history-this-hurricane-season/507-91d0f8f1-4413-4444-9754-04d45de356b4
If there is a really really good reason, though... There may be workarounds -  Aleph, Bet, Gimel, and Dalet from Herbew alphabet come to mind.

triplemultiplex

Hey look, we're gonna have 5 simultaneous named storms in the Atlantic Basin later today when Tropical Depression 21 becomes a Tropical Storm.
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/

What comes after Greek letters?
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

SEWIGuy

In the Western Pacific, they cycle through a list of names continuously and don't start over each year.  I kind of think the US should do the same instead of using Greek letters.  There doesn't seem to be a necessary reason to start over at "A" each year.  (But I also don't think grids for highway numbering are necessary either, so maybe it's just me.)

hotdogPi

Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 14, 2020, 10:40:36 AM
In the Western Pacific, they cycle through a list of names continuously and don't start over each year.  I kind of think the US should do the same instead of using Greek letters.  There doesn't seem to be a necessary reason to start over at "A" each year.  (But I also don't think grids for highway numbering are necessary either, so maybe it's just me.)

The first letter tells you if it's one of the earlier hurricanes or one of the later hurricanes. For example, just hearing the name Bob will tell me that it was very early in hurricane season.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: 1 on September 14, 2020, 10:47:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 14, 2020, 10:40:36 AM
In the Western Pacific, they cycle through a list of names continuously and don't start over each year.  I kind of think the US should do the same instead of using Greek letters.  There doesn't seem to be a necessary reason to start over at "A" each year.  (But I also don't think grids for highway numbering are necessary either, so maybe it's just me.)

The first letter tells you if it's one of the earlier hurricanes or one of the later hurricanes. For example, just hearing the name Bob will tell me that it was very early in hurricane season.


I get that, but can't you just look it up?

CoreySamson

#685
Quote from: 1 on September 14, 2020, 10:47:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 14, 2020, 10:40:36 AM
In the Western Pacific, they cycle through a list of names continuously and don't start over each year.  I kind of think the US should do the same instead of using Greek letters.  There doesn't seem to be a necessary reason to start over at "A" each year.  (But I also don't think grids for highway numbering are necessary either, so maybe it's just me.)

The first letter tells you if it's one of the earlier hurricanes or one of the later hurricanes. For example, just hearing the name Bob will tell me that it was very early in hurricane season.

I'm in favor of SEWIGuy's proposal here for one reason. While rotating A-Z lists may be attractive, I think it leads to problems when it comes to retiring names. Just look at the letter I. Usually the most destructive storms in a usual year happen around the tenth storm or so, which just so happens to be I's position in the alphabet. Think of all the nasty I-storms that have happened over the years. Irene, Isabel, Irma, Ivan, and Ike are just some of the worst I-storms.

If most deadly storms happen to occur when the Atlantic is on its tenth named storm, then coincidentally there should be lots of retired I-storms. The thing is, is that in the English language, there aren't many I-names that are popular, most of them are old-fashioned or obscure. This results in odd names such as Isaias and Imelda being used for storms (Remember how this thread blew up about Isaias's difficulty to pronounce?). The fact that the Atlantic basin is competing with the Eastern basin for names doesn't help matters at all.

The climax of my argument is that we may run out of good I-names eventually, and we may need to install a different naming system. Who wants hurricane Icarus?
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SEWIGuy

I also think you can start "un-retiring" names at some point.  Maybe after 30 years you can bring back all but the very worst? 

triplemultiplex

Maybe the solution is to ditch the cutsie naming convention all together and name them like exoplanets. 
"Tropical Storm 2020-M is forming in the Carribbean."

Alternate pitch: sell the naming rights to hurricanes to the highest bidder.
Think of the money one could raise in a bidding war between, say, Coke and Pepsi to name the next storm after the competition. :-D
No such thing as bad publicity. C'mon people, make it happen!
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

kalvado

Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 14, 2020, 03:33:33 PM
Maybe the solution is to ditch the cutsie naming convention all together and name them like exoplanets. 
"Tropical Storm 2020-M is forming in the Carribbean."

Alternate pitch: sell the naming rights to hurricanes to the highest bidder.
Think of the money one could raise in a bidding war between, say, Coke and Pepsi to name the next storm after the competition. :-D
No such thing as bad publicity. C'mon people, make it happen!
You mean for the right NOT to be used for naming? "Hurricane Sprite causes massive levee failures around New Orleans"?

US71

Quote from: kalvado on September 14, 2020, 05:51:23 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 14, 2020, 03:33:33 PM
Maybe the solution is to ditch the cutsie naming convention all together and name them like exoplanets. 
"Tropical Storm 2020-M is forming in the Carribbean."

Alternate pitch: sell the naming rights to hurricanes to the highest bidder.
Think of the money one could raise in a bidding war between, say, Coke and Pepsi to name the next storm after the competition. :-D
No such thing as bad publicity. C'mon people, make it happen!
You mean for the right NOT to be used for naming? "Hurricane Sprite causes massive levee failures around New Orleans"?

Name them for polluting corporations: Hurricane Exxon/Shell/BP etc.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

CNGL-Leudimin

Quote from: CoreySamson on September 14, 2020, 11:47:41 AMI'm in favor of SEWIGuy's proposal here for one reason. While rotating A-Z lists may be attractive, I think it leads to problems when it comes to retiring names. Just look at the letter I. Usually the most destructive storms in a usual year happen around the tenth storm or so, which just so happens to be I's position in the alphabet. Think of all the nasty I-storms that have happened over the years. Irene, Isabel, Irma, Ivan, and Ike are just some of the worst I-storms.

If most deadly storms happen to occur when the Atlantic is on its tenth named storm, then coincidentally there should be lots of retired I-storms. The thing is, is that in the English language, there aren't many I-names that are popular, most of them are old-fashioned or obscure. This results in odd names such as Isaias and Imelda being used for storms (Remember how this thread blew up about Isaias's difficulty to pronounce?). The fact that the Atlantic basin is competing with the Eastern basin for names doesn't help matters at all.

The climax of my argument is that we may run out of good I-names eventually, and we may need to install a different naming system. Who wants hurricane Icarus?

See also letter F. All Fs from the original 1979 lists are now gone, having been replaced at least once (Frederic => Fabian => Fred, Frances => Fiona -This was going to happen anyway due to a request from La France-, Floyd => Franklin, Florence => Francine, Felix => Fernand, Fran => Fay). On the letter I Isaac resists as the last original name of that letter.
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.

Alex

The Atlantic list needs to adopt two entries for X, Y and Z like the Pacific list. Those in the Pacific are rarely used, and would be better than using the Greek alphabet over and over (should seasons continually go through the entire alphabet).

Sally can be compared to Hurricane Danny in 1997, which stalled over Mobile Bay and dropped up to 43 inches of rain. Danny was not retired either.

CNGL-Leudimin

#692
The Eastern Pacific would have run over to the Greek alphabet three times had they not lengthened the lists in 1985. This way, it still has yet to see one such storm (even though it got to the end of the list in 1992). The Atlantic in 2005 would had still run out of names even if X, Y and Z names were added, and luckily they missed that subtropical storm (which I wouldn't have recognized anyway, like I do with 4 others), otherwise Hurricane Wilma would have been Hurricane α and it couldn't have been retired (see above). Also, the last tropical storm would have been Tropical Storm η, which wouldn't have been appropiate given the Basque terrorist group, ETA was still pretty much active at the time (akin to what explains why Ivette entered the Eastern Pacific lists).

Also, in regard to the "sponsored tropical cyclone names" thing, Mulan is now in the typhoon (Western Pacific) list :sombrero:. However it has no relation to the Disney character, as it is a Chinese word (木兰) meaning "lily magnolia".
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.

Scott5114

The Washington Post had an article about using the Greek alphabet and the difficulty of retiring storm names from it. According to the article, one solution that has been officially debated in the past was creating another name list that would only be used when the main list for the year is exhausted (so after Wilbur would be the "A" name from the overflow list). Names could then be retired from the overflow list whenever needed.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

route56

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 16, 2020, 05:17:38 PM
The Washington Post had an article about using the Greek alphabet and the difficulty of retiring storm names from it. According to the article, one solution that has been officially debated in the past was creating another name list that would only be used when the main list for the year is exhausted (so after Wilbur would be the "A" name from the overflow list). Names could then be retired from the overflow list whenever needed.

Presumably, you'd need two such lists of names: one that begins with a male "A" name for lists 1, 3, and 5; and another that begins with a female "A" name for lists 2, 4, and 6. Also, if you have an overflow list, you could also move a name from the overflow list to the main list, and the new replacment name would be placed on the overflow list.
Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.

Ben114

With the formation of TD Twenty-two, forecasters predict that this storm could possibly be TS Wilfred.

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCPAT2+shtml/172259.shtml

Alps

Quote from: route56 on September 17, 2020, 08:26:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 16, 2020, 05:17:38 PM
The Washington Post had an article about using the Greek alphabet and the difficulty of retiring storm names from it. According to the article, one solution that has been officially debated in the past was creating another name list that would only be used when the main list for the year is exhausted (so after Wilbur would be the "A" name from the overflow list). Names could then be retired from the overflow list whenever needed.

Presumably, you'd need two such lists of names: one that begins with a male "A" name for lists 1, 3, and 5; and another that begins with a female "A" name for lists 2, 4, and 6. Also, if you have an overflow list, you could also move a name from the overflow list to the main list, and the new replacment name would be placed on the overflow list.
Or have a list of names that go either way. https://www.mother.ly/child/top-50-gender-neutral-baby-names-youll-obsess-over-/particle-3

US 89

And for the second time ever, we have entered the Greek alphabet. Subtropical Storm Alpha has now formed...and is about to make landfall on, of all places, Portugal.

route56

Quote from: US 89 on September 18, 2020, 12:32:23 PM
And for the second time ever, we have entered the Greek alphabet. Subtropical Storm Alpha has now formed...and is about to make landfall on, of all places, Portugal.
Sounds like Mother Nature is giving CNGL her opinion on the naming of subtropical systems.


iPhone
Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.

CNGL-Leudimin

As always I won't recognize Subtropical Storm α despite dumping lots of rain here :sombrero:. At least since the list has been exhausted it doesn't affect that. Remember that out of 3 iterations of Andrea I only recognize the 2013 one.
Quote from: US 89 on September 18, 2020, 12:32:23 PM
And for the second time ever, we have entered the Greek alphabet. Subtropical Storm Alpha has now formed...and is about to make landfall on, of all places, Portugal.

Two years ago Leslie almost made landfall in Portugal as a full-blown hurricane, but became extratropical right before doing so.
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.



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