Sports Realignment Ideas

[texaskdog]

How did I ever miss this page? 

Y'all play fantasy football at all?

[texaskdog]

MLB: What about Austin (Round Rock Express).  We have no major league teams at all and with 3 basketball teams and the omnipotent Cowboys here, baseball would be the best sport here.

Cleveland should move to Columbus...or Indianapolis (the name already works).   They are hot this year and can't draw flies

[Thing 342]

And in the NBA, the rejection of arena plans in Seattle gave Las Vegas a huge advantage in a future basketball team. If they're granted a team, then a 32nd team comes about, and places like Kansas City and Virginia Beach could get one. The NBA would have 16 teams (current 15) each conference, a division with 6 team each and the other two have 5. Las Vegas would be divisional rivals to the 2 L.A. and 2 other CA teams (the possible team name is the Las Vegas Aces), and divisional realignment is possible for the eastern conference (the Washington Wizards become division rivals of the NY Knicks and Brooklyn Nets), because Virginia Beach is ready for a pro/major league sports team (name them the VA Squires, after the 1960s-70s ABA team) and will replace the Wizards' spot.

I would argue that Hampton Roads (#43 media market) isn't big enough to support a NBA team (we can't even keep a bloody AHL team!), but then I remember that OKC (#45), Memphis (#48) and New Orleans (#53) appear to be doing just fine.

[dvferyance]

MLB: What about Austin (Round Rock Express).  We have no major league teams at all and with 3 basketball teams and the omnipotent Cowboys here, baseball would be the best sport here.

Cleveland should move to Columbus...or Indianapolis (the name already works).   They are hot this year and can't draw flies

San Antonio would make more sense.

[jp the roadgeek]

Professional basketball usually doesn't do that well in ACC country.  Charlotte already had a team and lost it, and the second Hornets aren't the greatest draw.  Plus, the NC border is only about a half hour from Hampton Roads, so you're already losing your fan base there.  Plus, the DC fanbase is too nearby to legitimize creating a new fan base. Worked when the Squires were in a separate league from the then Bullets (plus the Bullets were relatively new to the DC area, having played in Baltimore for many years), and would've worked if they had come in with the ABA/NBA merger, but I don't see it working 40 years later.  2 other ABA markets that missed the cut, St. Louis and Louisville, could be considered, as could Pittsburgh (the latter 2 are technically ACC country, but are outliers at that).

How about Buffalo as a possible MLB market?  Could form a territorial rivalry with the NY teams, Toronto, Pittsburgh, or Cleveland.

[Desert Man]

Actually, the NHL voted to grant Las Vegas, NV the league's 31st team.
http://www.fox5vegas.com/clip/12544507/nhl-awards-hockey-team-to-las-vegas

The minor league Las Vegas Wranglers of the ECHL folded in 2014. Las Vegas has a triple-A minor league baseball team the Area 51's in the PCL. And a history of Arena football, the NBA all-star game in 2007, and in the 1980s the Las Vegas Lazers of the North American Soccer League.

By next month, a second vote to grant the 32nd team (not sure where exactly is) to the NHL, to tie in size with the NFL's 32 teams, then the NBA and MLB's 30, and MLS' expanded 24 teams.

I have no information on when the NBA votes on expansion, but I read posts on Virginia Beach isn't the right site, and no mention of former NBA/ABA sites Louisville KY, Cincinnati and Buffalo. The most possible expansion sites are still Las Vegas and Kansas City, larger markets than the 3 mentioned.

And about Seattle, what about Tacoma with their arena (TacomaDome) and Bellevue, the affluent suburb east of Seattle with the University of Seattle's sports facilities? The NBA can still grant a team in the Seattle metro area.

[Henry]

With all that talk about the Raiders' move to Las Vegas, and now a new NHL franchise, don't be surprised if a MLB team is placed there, through either expansion or relocation (with the Rays and A's as potential suitors). Commissioner Rob Manfred says he's open to that idea. And with the NBA having played an All-Star Game there in 2007, as previously mentioned, having its own team would be the icing on the cake.

[Desert Man]

Professional basketball usually doesn't do that well in ACC country.  Charlotte already had a team and lost it, and the second Hornets aren't the greatest draw.  Plus, the NC border is only about a half hour from Hampton Roads, so you're already losing your fan base there.  Plus, the DC fanbase is too nearby to legitimize creating a new fan base. Worked when the Squires were in a separate league from the then Bullets (plus the Bullets were relatively new to the DC area, having played in Baltimore for many years), and would've worked if they had come in with the ABA/NBA merger, but I don't see it working 40 years later.  2 other ABA markets that missed the cut, St. Louis and Louisville, could be considered, as could Pittsburgh (the latter 2 are technically ACC country, but are outliers at that).

How about Buffalo as a possible MLB market?  Could form a territorial rivalry with the NY teams, Toronto, Pittsburgh, or Cleveland.

Then there's CBA (Continental Basketball Association) territory: Iowa, Omaha and the Dakotas (the original NBA in the 1940s-50s), Mont., Idaho and the NW sells out their home games in smaller or moderately populated cities. The early NFL was all over the Midwest in similar fashion, the early MLB had teams in Louisville, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Newark, and New England like Hartford, worcester and Providence, and the pre-1917 pro hockey leagues had a team in Seattle.

In the 1960s-70s the ABA (basketball), the 1970s WHA (hockey) and 1970s-80s NASL (soccer) brought pro or "major league" sports in places previously without one. The 1960s AFL (football) succeeded to merge with the NFL, while the NASL folded out of business and teams I remember: Provo Strikers, Tulsa Roughnecks and Santa Barbara Surf, are indications these cities could have a pro or "major league" team. Only 4 ABA and 4 WHA teams each manage to survive to this day.

[jeffandnicole]

With all that talk about the Raiders' move to Las Vegas, and now a new NHL franchise, don't be surprised if a MLB team is placed there, through either expansion or relocation (with the Rays and A's as potential suitors). Commissioner Rob Manfred says he's open to that idea. And with the NBA having played an All-Star Game there in 2007, as previously mentioned, having its own team would be the icing on the cake.

I would be surprised. There's no place to put a MLB team, and a stadium would take several years to build. You'll also have an issue with the extreme heat out there, which both players and fans wouldn't want to be sitting in. So you're talking about a domed stadium, and overall they don't tend to be very popular unless a team is doing very well.

[SP Cook]

The reason the NHL is the best choice for the Las Vegas region is because it is the least TV money dependent of the three possible sports (the NFL, which sells all of its TV rights as a group is a different discussion).   Live gate still drives the NHL.  Between locals and well planned marketing towards tourists, it can work. 

Baseball, and to a lesser extent basketball, is much more dependent on money from its local TV and radio contracts.  Las Vegas is growing, but it still is not that big and the team would have no claim on any other place.  It is just Clark County, NV, while most current MLB teams have region sports networks covering multiple states.

Then, re baseball, you do have the heat issue and 81 live dates to sell.   I just do not see that.

[Desert Man]

The reason the NHL is the best choice for the Las Vegas region is because it is the least TV money dependent of the three possible sports (the NFL, which sells all of its TV rights as a group is a different discussion).   Live gate still drives the NHL.  Between locals and well planned marketing towards tourists, it can work. 

Baseball, and to a lesser extent basketball, is much more dependent on money from its local TV and radio contracts.  Las Vegas is growing, but it still is not that big and the team would have no claim on any other place.  It is just Clark County, NV, while most current MLB teams have region sports networks covering multiple states.

Then, re baseball, you do have the heat issue and 81 live dates to sell.   I just do not see that.

Ok, I see...Las Vegas in the desert more suited for a "cold" sport, since the peak tourist and seasonal resident season is winter. Montreal, Canada has a better chance of a MLB team than Las Vegas, since the Tampa Bay Rays explored moving north as well out west (unless the Oakland A's staked their turf). If the Rays relocated, Tampa might start all over in MLB expansion.

[texaskdog]

Somebody mentioned the appeal to Vegas is people traveling with the team to see the games.  But it's not going to be the thousands of people they would need.  Maybe for NFL...I don't see that draw for other sports.

[Desert Man]

Houston is the largest US city/metro area without a NHL team, the closest one is the Dallas Stars. I like to see Hartford, Conn. in the NHL again, as much I like Brooklyn represented in the majors in baseball. Newark, NJ's arena can have a new NBA team replacing the Nets went to Barclay Center in Brooklyn. And the idea of a NFL team in Canada (specifically Toronto) will make the league truly international.

Edit: This came to mind: the MLS is expanding and in my version, they add 6 or 7 more teams, concentrated in the Southwest. They are the Austin Tejano, El Paso Aztecs, Las Vegas Dustdevils (or new Lazers), Sacramento Republic, San Diego Sockers, Tucson Clash, and Tulsa Roughnecks. Currently at 24, they could reach 30-34 like the other big 4 sports leagues. El Paso and San Diego are right on the US-Mexican border, they could hold exhibition games with Juarez Indios and Club Tijuana. Texas currently has the Houston Dynamo (they tried to have "1836" as part of their logo) and Dallas-Fort Worth nicknamed "DFW". Canada has 3 MLS teams: Toronto FC "Canada", Le Impact du Montreal and Vancouver Whitecaps, who take part in the Cascadia cup vs. the Seattle sounders and Portland Timbers.

[texaskdog]

MLB: What about Austin (Round Rock Express).  We have no major league teams at all and with 3 basketball teams and the omnipotent Cowboys here, baseball would be the best sport here.

Cleveland should move to Columbus...or Indianapolis (the name already works).   They are hot this year and can't draw flies

San Antonio would make more sense.

San Antonio doesn't even support their AA team whereas Austin we support our AAA team.  It's not all about population.

[Desert Man]

Orlando and Portland OR don't have minor league baseball teams (their nearest ones in fact in suburbs: Kissimmee FL or Hillsboro OR), while Brooklyn and Buffalo NY have exceptionally high attendance in minor league baseball, and the chances of the A's or Rays moving to new ground, this calls for a new round of MLB expansion.

The Class-A California League needs to add a pair of teams in the state, they have 2 divisions (Nor and Sou) with 5 teams each. Candidates are Salinas and Palm Springs, if they approve new standard ballparks, and find major league affiliations (MLB expansion can make it possible). The Salinas Spurs in the early 1990s was a Japanese professional league affiliate and the Palm Springs Angels of late 80s/early 90s paid tribute to the parent club's former spring training site.

And there's a women's Pro softball League: National Pro Fastpitch, the highest level of women's softball in the US. There are 6 or 8 teams, notably Akron with the most success and their rivals Dayton, Oh. In my version, they expanded west into CA: how about L.A. and San Francisco? Give them cute feminine, but strong sportslike names. The L.A. Serafins or Divas? and the S.F. Bay Mermaids or Sirens?

[epzik8]

NHL back to six divisions with one Western Conference team containing six teams beginning in 2017-18 with the new Las Vegas team's arrival. This is mostly a revert to the pre-2012 format.

Eastern:

• Northeast:Boston, Buffalo, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
• Atlantic:New Jersey, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
• Southeast:Carolina, Florida, Nashville, Tampa Bay, Washington
  

Western:

• Midwest:Columbus, Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota, St. Louis
• Northwest:Calgary, Colorado, Edmonton, Vancouver, Winnipeg
• Pacific:Anaheim, Arizona, Dallas, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Jose

OR maybe Columbus would move to the East, Detroit would still move back to the West, and the Atlantic would be the five teams above plus Columbus. Meanwhile, Las Vegas could land in the Northwest instead. AND/OR the Midwest could be the six-team division beginning in 2017-18 and it would be Columbus, Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota, St. Louis and Winnipeg, and the Northwest would be Calgary, Colorado, Edmonton, Las Vegas and Vancouver.

[Henry]

Why would Las Vegas be in the Northwest Division? That would be a serious mismatch, like the Thunder are in the NBA's own Northwest Division! Granted, they used to be the Seattle SuperSonics, but Oklahoma City being included makes absolutely no sense.

[jp the roadgeek]

They will probably stay with 4 divisions and just throw Las Vegas in the Pacific until a 32nd team is added.  Question is if when that team is added, will the league stay with 8 4 team divisions, or 4 8 team divisions?  If it's Quebec, either Detroit or Columbus would have to go west. If it's Seattle or Kansas City, then Seattle would send most likely Arizona to the Central.  If it's KC, then they just slide into the Central. 

Here's a breakdown of the divisions based on each scenario: Quebec, KC, and Seattle.  To save space, I listed them in 4 divisions. To break them into 8 divisions, just take the first 4 of each division and the last 4 and split them up (notice the slight tweak I make by moving CLB and PIT into the Atlantic, and the Florida teams in the Metropolitan.

QUEBEC:

Atlantic: BOS, MON, OTT, QUE, BUF, DET, TOR, PIT
Metropolitan: NJ, NYI, NYR, PHL, CAR, FLA, TB, WAS
Central: CHI, CBJ, NAS, STL, DAL, COL, MIN, WPG
Pacific: ANA, ARZ, LA, LV, CAL, EDM, SJ, VAN

KANSAS CITY:

Atlantic: BOS, MON, OTT, TOR, BUF, CLB, DET, PIT
Metropolitan: NJ, NYI, NYR, WAS, CAR, FLA, TB, WAL
Central: CHI, MIN, NAS, WIN, COL, DAL, KC, STL
Pacific: ANA, ARZ, LA, LV, CAL, EDM, SJ, VAN


SEATTLE:

Atlantic: BOS, MON, OTT, TOR, BUF, CLB, DET, PIT
Metropolitan:  NJ, NYI, NYR, WAS, CAR, FLA, TB, WAL
Central: CHI, MIN, NAS, WPG, ARZ, COL, DAL, STL
Pacific: ANA, LA, LV, SJ, CAL, EDM, SEA, VAN

[Henry]

I can live with Arizona in the Central, as it's further east than Las Vegas.

[Rushmeister]

AFC N: Pittsburgh-Cleveland-Cincinnatti-Indianapolis (serving the eastern midwest)

I've been thinking the same thing for years.  Indianapolis is not in the South.  I think the Colts would develop an interesting rivalry with the Steelers.

[jp the roadgeek]

AFC N: Pittsburgh-Cleveland-Cincinnatti-Indianapolis (serving the eastern midwest)

I've been thinking the same thing for years.  Indianapolis is not in the South.  I think the Colts would develop an interesting rivalry with the Steelers.

Steelers have too much of a rivalry with the Ravens, and the name Rooney pulls a lot of weight in the NFL.  Same reason why you won't see the Cowboys, despite being almost 1400 miles from its nearest divisional opponent, leaving the NFC East anytime soon.  At least the Rams moving back to LA eliminates the "St. Louis is West" anomaly. Logical geographical move in the NFC would put the Panthers in the East and the Cowboys in the South.  AFC is a little more complicated.  True geography would look like this in the AFC:

AFC East: BAL, BUF, NE, NYJ
AFC North: CIN, CLE, IND, PIT
AFC South: HOU, JAX, MIA, TEN
AFC West: As is

Or, if you really want to get radical, eliminate the AFC and NFC and go to 8 divisions based on geography

Northeast: BUF, NE, NYG, NYJ,
Mid-Atlantic: BAL, PHI, PIT, WAS
Great Lakes: CAR, CIN, CLE, IND
Central: CHI, DET, GB, MIN,
Southeast: ATL, JAX, MIA, TB
Gulf Coast: DAL, HOU, NO, TEN
Southwest: ARZ, DEN, KC, SD
Northwest: LA, OAK, SEA, SF

If the Raiders move to Vega$, flip flop the Raiders and Broncos.

[texaskdog]

you mean Raiders & Chargers I take it.

[Sean Lawson]

Of course, this year was this realignment https://princetonsportsanalytics.com/2016/04/14/nfl-divisional-realignment-for-earth-day/ on April, something didn't get as we expected, but anyways it is what it is

[jp the roadgeek]

Actually, I'd like to revise my AFC realignment slightly

AFC East: BAL, NE, NYJ, PIT
AFC North: BUF, CIN, CLE, IND
AFC South: HOU, JAX, MIA, TEN
AFC West: As is

My reasoning:  The Steelers now have a bigger divisional rivalry with the Ravens than the Browns, and the Pats biggest divisional rival is the Jets, so both are preserved.  Miami in the South makes geographic sense, and a intrastate rivalry with the Jags has been virtually ignored for 21 years (and the current vs. former Houston rivalry is preserved as well).  Buffalo and Cleveland is another untapped regional rivalry; the Paul Brown rivalry remains, and Cincy and Indy are only 2 hours apart.

[amroad17]

Yes, but over the last five years, the Steelers-Bengals rivalry has amped up 10-fold.  Just watch last year's Divisional game.  It looked like football from the late 1960's-mid 1970's.  An 18-16 score and shots being delivered all over the field from both sides.  These teams really hate each other.  Just put the Browns in the AFC East and keep the Steelers, Ravens, Colts, and Bengals in the AFC North.  These teams would practically kill each other during the season.  Probably would have the division winner end up 8-8 or 9-7 every year because of each team smacking the crap out of the others in that division.