i was looking at google maps and noticed this, why does i-84 just shoot up to i-90 after it leaves hartford? it would have made more sense for it to end in downtown providence. was this ever proposed? having a route to boston can still be done via 395 if it were redone.
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 07:50:58 AMi was looking at google maps and noticed this, why does i-84 just shoot up to i-90 after it leaves hartford?
Because Hartford-Boston is a major route worthy of an interstate and is e-w more than n-s, with I-84 to the west of the city being an excellent number for it.
Quoteit would have made more sense for it to end in downtown providence. was this ever proposed?
Yes. I-84 east of Hartford was even renumbered as the original I-86 (though the original proposal was for Hartford-Providence to be I-82). CT didn't build much of it and so reversed the numbering changes.
Kurumi has a history on it: http://www.kurumi.com/roads/ct/harttoprov.html
What was supposed to have been I-84 is now I-384, and the US 6 expressway exists in a few parts as well.
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
Which raises an interesting question. Are there any Interstate highways and/or freeways that were built across reservoirs before the current environmental permitting requirements, and have those highways proven to have a significant negative impact on the water quality of those reservoirs?
i-90 through wolf lake in ill/in would never be built today.
Quote from: roadman on August 10, 2017, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
Which raises an interesting question. Are there any Interstate highways and/or freeways that were built across reservoirs before the current environmental permitting requirements, and have those highways proven to have a significant negative impact on the water quality of those reservoirs?
The northwest portion of the I-291 beltway around Hartford was stopped for the same reason. It would have passed through the reservoirs in West Hartford.
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 12:10:38 PM
i-90 through wolf lake in ill/in would never be built today.
However, no one drinks the water from Wolf Lake.
That doesn't matter, you still have ecological problems.
It's quite hard to do anything across bodies of water like that.
Quote from: roadman on August 10, 2017, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
Which raises an interesting question. Are there any Interstate highways and/or freeways that were built across reservoirs before the current environmental permitting requirements, and have those highways proven to have a significant negative impact on the water quality of those reservoirs?
I-220 Shreveport is the best example I can think of, though I'm not sure what impacts it had on the environment or when exactly when this section was built, it does take a rather peculiar route across the reservoir. There's also I-30 and I-35E in the Dallas area
I-84 is also part of the fastest route between NYC and Boston, either via I-684 or I-91. If I-84 went toward Providence and only connected to I-90 via I-395, it would lengthen said route.
I-84 was once signed on the Willimantic bypass (now US 6):
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4339/36349801581_7493b42718_o.jpg)
Even today, you see the stub end in Johnston, RI, where US Route 6 veers north onto I-295 for a one exit span to meet up with US Route 6 proper. My next question is US Route 6 in the area of the Scituate Reservoir. There's US Route 6 and US Route 6 Bypass. Was one of those routes supposed to be another portion of the cancelled I-84?
I just took this pic, yesterday:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4339/36302812212_b344f3b4e9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XiXpio)Stub ramp that would've been from I-84 East to I-295 North. It would've joined the ramp from I-84 West to I-295 North. Johnston, RI. (https://flic.kr/p/XiXpio) by mergingtraffic (https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/), on Flickr
Quote from: bzakharin on August 10, 2017, 03:35:23 PM
I-84 is also part of the fastest route between NYC and Boston, either via I-684 or I-91. If I-84 went toward Providence and only connected to I-90 via I-395, it would lengthen said route.
The East Hartford-Sturbridge piece of I-84 has existed since about 1940 when it was constructed as part of the Wilbur Cross Highway/Parkway as CT 15. The rest of I-84 and the two existing pieces of the highway to Providence (I-384 from Spencer St east and the US 6 Willimantic bypass), wasn't constructed until the 1960's.
I don't really feel like having a highway in my backyard...
A lot of NIMBY people. They want a highway but keep it out of my town.
I-84 would have been nice if it had not been cancelled as it would have connected to I-195 and that would have made a connection to Cape Cod. Whether I-195 would have been eventually given the number as I don't think so, but if it were it would dangle as MA made no effort yet to even connect I-195 to MA 3 or even I-495 to it and you still have to use US 6 to connect the two.
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on August 10, 2017, 04:23:31 PM
Even today, you see the stub end in Johnston, RI, where US Route 6 veers north onto I-295 for a one exit span to meet up with US Route 6 proper. My next question is US Route 6 in the area of the Scituate Reservoir. There's US Route 6 and US Route 6 Bypass. Was one of those routes supposed to be another portion of the cancelled I-84?
Well, there's not US Route 6 and US Route 6 Bypass anymore, those are old designations. But still, the answer is no. I-84 would have run between them on its route from CT 695 (Turnpike end) to the US 6 freeway.
Quote from: roadman on August 10, 2017, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
Which raises an interesting question. Are there any Interstate highways and/or freeways that were built across reservoirs before the current environmental permitting requirements, and have those highways proven to have a significant negative impact on the water quality of those reservoirs?
Taconic Parkway across New Croton Reservoir - now two bridges. By far not the only one - I-5 over Lake Shasta is another that comes to mind, though I only know that as a manmade lake, unsure if it reservoirs.
I-76 and I-80 both cross the Meander Reservoir near Youngstown OH.
Quote from: roadman on August 10, 2017, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
Which raises an interesting question. Are there any Interstate highways and/or freeways that were built across reservoirs before the current environmental permitting requirements, and have those highways proven to have a significant negative impact on the water quality of those reservoirs?
I-95 crosses Lake Marion near Santee, SC.
I-81 crosses the Potomac River, the only source of drinking water for the District of Columbia, and the primary source of drinking water for the D.C. suburbs in Maryland and Virginia.
I-66 crosses the Shenandoah River and Goose Creek, larger tributaries of the Potomac River which also supply drinking water intakes downstream.
Quote from: english si on August 10, 2017, 08:18:12 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 07:50:58 AMi was looking at google maps and noticed this, why does i-84 just shoot up to i-90 after it leaves hartford?
Because Hartford-Boston is a major route worthy of an interstate and is e-w more than n-s, with I-84 to the west of the city being an excellent number for it.Quoteit would have made more sense for it to end in downtown providence. was this ever proposed?
Yes. I-84 east of Hartford was even renumbered as the original I-86 (though the original proposal was for Hartford-Providence to be I-82). CT didn't build much of it and so reversed the numbering changes.
Kurumi has a history on it: http://www.kurumi.com/roads/ct/harttoprov.html
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fctbythenumbers.info%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F06%2F86-84.jpg&hash=e3bc6ba3ee3ed95ce74a0d1a6b5d4972c247e7ce)
I-86 was first I-84 and then switched back as stated which makes a rare case as only a few times a road is switched and then switched back hence I-95 in Wilmington becoming short lived I-895 and then I-95 again and US 13 in Norfolk and Chesapeake going from US 13 to US 13 Bus. and back to US 13 again.
Interesting but that is why we all love roads (well most of us anyway lol) because of stuff like this. :awesomeface:
I can tolerate traffic on US 6. It usually moves +/- 5mph inside the speed limit during peak times. The only thing I could them doing is transitioning out the western Willimantic Bypass directly onto US 6, instead of tying up traffic at the half-trumpet interchange that's there now. The ROW is still there and with a diversion of the Hop River would probably work.
My pipe dream wish is a bare minimum fix that would link I-384 in Bolton to the Willimantic Bypass and renaming the US 6 freeway to I-384 (or making it a multiplex route). However, I'll throw that in the trunk with the Route 11 extension to I-95.
I would like to see I-84 go onto the Mass Pike and take over I-290 and I-495 and have it end where I-495 ends just south of NH. Of course we are going into fictional highways here so enough said.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 19, 2017, 10:41:31 PM
I would like to see I-84 go onto the Mass Pike and take over I-290 and I-495 and have it end where I-495 ends just south of NH. Of course we are going into fictional highways here so enough said.
Similar to my idea where I-84 is extended along the MA 49 corridor then bends around to meet the E/W portion of I-290, but instead gets extended eastward to meet 128 near the Waltham/Lexington line. I-290 would be a full N/S route and take over I-190 to Fitchburg.
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate. However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate. However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.
To some extent, DE-1 (the Relief Route toll road) serves as a N-S Interstate, at least from Dover to I-95.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.
Many of those NIMBYs are people with substantial amounts of money, and are happy with the status quo, and usually are not concerned about safety.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 20, 2017, 09:28:59 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.
Many of those NIMBYs are people with substantial amounts of money, and are happy with the status quo, and usually are not concerned about safety.
Not necessarily. Windham County, CT is kind of rural with quite a bit of farmland; not like the Gold Coast Fairfield County image that you would otherwise have of CT. The roadblocks that posed the greatest obstacles to completing the highway were environmental in nature. The first was just east of where I-384 currently ends, and how the highway would pass through the Hop River watershed. The second was Scituate Reservoir in RI. The former was bogged down by EIS after EIS a la Route 11, while the latter was just too big an obstacle to go around. Also, RI couldn't pick an option for where the east end of I-84 would go; the most logical option was the US 6 expressway, but one option had it bending south to meet the RI 37 expressway.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.
Many of those NIMBYs are people with substantial amounts of money, and are happy with the status quo, and usually are not concerned about safety.
[/quote]
We're about as dirt poor in Connecticut as you can get. (
The county)
Also, while I like highways, I don't like the sound they create. When I went camping this weekend, it was right next to CT 11, and even for a unfinished highway to Salem, it's loud and annoying. Now imagine living 4 miles away from a major highway. For me, it's not fun.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate. However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.
Um, Nebraska does have a second primary interstate, even it's only for 2 miles (I-76). Now, they do sign it "north" and "south". Nebraska also has the interesting situation of having a 3di (I-129) from an interstate that doesn't enter the state (I-29) (shared with Wisconsin - I-35/I-535).
Quote from: Brandon on August 22, 2017, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate. However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.
Um, Nebraska does have a second primary interstate, even it's only for 2 miles (I-76). Now, they do sign it "north" and "south". Nebraska also has the interesting situation of having a 3di (I-129) from an interstate that doesn't enter the state (I-29) (shared with Wisconsin - I-35/I-535).
New Jersey also has this with I-287 and 87.
Quote from: JJBers on August 22, 2017, 12:47:30 AM
When I went camping this weekend, it was right next to CT 11, and even for a unfinished highway to Salem, it's loud and annoying. Now imagine living 4 miles away from a major highway. For me, it's not fun.
I live less than 1 mile from a major expressway-type road (U.S. 29) and a toll road less than 10 years old (MD-200), obviously not in New England.
The state installed noise barriers along U.S. 29, and has kept trees in place along the toll road, and some noise barriers (but not near my home). The interchange between MD-200 and I-95 is about 2 miles away. What are the loudest transportation noises I hear?
1. Loud motorcycles (usually, but not always, "crotch rocket" or "sport bike" type motorcycles);
2. Whistles (horns) from a CSX trains at a grade crossing about 4.75 miles away.
3. Once in a while, I will hear an exhaust brake (engine brake) from a nearby passing heavy truck, but that is rare.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 22, 2017, 12:39:29 PM
Quote from: Brandon on August 22, 2017, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate. However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.
Um, Nebraska does have a second primary interstate, even it's only for 2 miles (I-76). Now, they do sign it "north" and "south". Nebraska also has the interesting situation of having a 3di (I-129) from an interstate that doesn't enter the state (I-29) (shared with Wisconsin - I-35/I-535).
New Jersey also has this with I-287 and 87.
As does Indiana with I-75/I-275. NY comes oh so close on a second and third one with I-78/I-278 & I-678
I also live about a mile as the crow flies from I-84. There's enough noise on the streets in between to drown out any highway noise, except for the loud engine brake late at night when all is quiet and I go outside.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 22, 2017, 04:34:56 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 22, 2017, 12:39:29 PM
Quote from: Brandon on August 22, 2017, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate. However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.
Um, Nebraska does have a second primary interstate, even it's only for 2 miles (I-76). Now, they do sign it "north" and "south". Nebraska also has the interesting situation of having a 3di (I-129) from an interstate that doesn't enter the state (I-29) (shared with Wisconsin - I-35/I-535).
New Jersey also has this with I-287 and 87.
As does Indiana with I-75/I-275. NY comes oh so close on a second and third one with I-78/I-278 & I-678
I also live about a mile as the crow flies from I-84. There's enough noise on the streets in between to drown out any highway noise, except for the loud engine brake late at night when all is quiet and I go outside.
Almost happened in Connecticut, with I-290 going down to New London.
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade. Think US 13.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade. Think US 13.
This is Connecticut, not Virginia. It wouldn't work any day around here
Quote from: JJBers on September 07, 2017, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade. Think US 13.
This is Connecticut, not Virginia. It wouldn't work any day around here
I wish more states would take the VA approach. There are many overburdened 2 lane roads in this country that could use similar upgrades. Much cheaper than a full freeway in a lot of corridors that don't need a full freeway. Good quality secondary roads can keep a lot of local and regional traffic off the interstates.
There are a few of these roads in PA (US 11/15 Duncannon to Selinsgrove, US 22 Colonial Park to Berks County line, US 30 Bedford to Breezewood, US 220 west of Williamsport, etc.), but they're few and far between, and usually only in small bits and pieces and not anything useful as a long-distance route. The only specific ones I can think of that are four lanes and divided over long distances are US 22 from Pittsburgh to Hollidaysburg, US 15 from Maryland to Harrisburg (minus the congested section around Dillsburg), and US 11/15 up to Selinsgrove, which is only a relatively small upgrade away from a logical I-83 extension.
Quote from: JJBers on September 07, 2017, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade. Think US 13.
This is Connecticut, not Virginia. It wouldn't work any day around here
Connecticut DID do that with the short US 7 extension in the southwestern part of the state. At least the northern part of it. The should have built the whole thing, between I-95 and I-84, to full standards, but likely too much in this day and age.
Quote from: DJStephens on July 14, 2018, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: JJBers on September 07, 2017, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade. Think US 13.
This is Connecticut, not Virginia. It wouldn't work any day around here
Connecticut DID do that with the short US 7 extension in the southwestern part of the state. At least the northern part of it. The should have built the whole thing, between I-95 and I-84, to full standards, but likely too much in this day and age.
Yeah, I was gonna say, a decent amount of US 7 is like that, even if it has a 50 MPH limit. The section around Branchville is 2 lanes. Most of the rest south of New Milford is 4 lanes.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 20, 2017, 09:28:59 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate. However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.
To some extent, DE-1 (the Relief Route toll road) serves as a N-S Interstate, at least from Dover to I-95.
Could easily be I-195, but that is not a primary Interstate. They could do that by making it I-99 down to Dover. It is far enough from the other I-99 that it shouldn't be turned down.
Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2018, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on July 14, 2018, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: JJBers on September 07, 2017, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade. Think US 13.
This is Connecticut, not Virginia. It wouldn't work any day around here
Connecticut DID do that with the short US 7 extension in the southwestern part of the state. At least the northern part of it. The should have built the whole thing, between I-95 and I-84, to full standards, but likely too much in this day and age.
Yeah, I was gonna say, a decent amount of US 7 is like that, even if it has a 50 MPH limit. The section around Branchville is 2 lanes. Most of the rest south of New Milford is 4 lanes.
But unlike the south, every intersection up here needs a traffic light because of the volumes, so it's not nearly as efficient as a four-lane in VA.
Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2018, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade. Think US 13.
Yeah, I was gonna say, a decent amount of US 7 is like that, even if it has a 50 MPH limit. The section around Branchville is 2 lanes. Most of the rest south of New Milford is 4 lanes.
A fairly recent development, by the way. US 7 was only 2 lanes all the way from Wilton up to the southern end of the freeway segment near Danbury Airport until ~2010.
There were active plans to complete the freeway between Norwalk and Danbury even in the 90s (the section from exit 2 to the T intersection at Grist Mill Road opened in 1992). Once the state gave up on ever actually finishing the freeway, they went and 4-laned two sections of the existing road instead.
Most of the section between CT 35 and Danbury Airport was supposed to have a median barrier instead of just double yellow lines, but NIMBYs balked at that because it made the road look too much like a freeway.
As for the "Virginia Boulevard" idea for US 6, keep in mind that Connecticut would probably make the speed limit on such a facility 45 because Connecticut. (ConnDOT will not post above 50 on anything that isn't a freeway and even then only uses 50 on non-freeways sparingly).
Quote from: Duke87 on July 15, 2018, 10:30:12 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2018, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade. Think US 13.
Yeah, I was gonna say, a decent amount of US 7 is like that, even if it has a 50 MPH limit. The section around Branchville is 2 lanes. Most of the rest south of New Milford is 4 lanes.
A fairly recent development, by the way. US 7 was only 2 lanes all the way from Wilton up to the southern end of the freeway segment near Danbury Airport until ~2010.
There were active plans to complete the freeway between Norwalk and Danbury even in the 90s (the section from exit 2 to the T intersection at Grist Mill Road opened in 1992). Once the state gave up on ever actually finishing the freeway, they went and 4-laned two sections of the existing road instead.
Most of the section between CT 35 and Danbury Airport was supposed to have a median barrier instead of just double yellow lines, but NIMBYs balked at that because it made the road look too much like a freeway.
As for the "Virginia Boulevard" idea for US 6, keep in mind that Connecticut would probably make the speed limit on such a facility 45 because Connecticut. (ConnDOT will not post above 50 on anything that isn't a freeway and even then only uses 50 on non-freeways sparingly).
The Berlin Turnpike and John Fitch Boulevard are the only two I can think of. A design similar to those two streets is what I was envisioning.
Quote from: Brandon on August 22, 2017, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate. However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.
Um, Nebraska does have a second primary interstate, even it's only for 2 miles (I-76). Now, they do sign it "north" and "south". Nebraska also has the interesting situation of having a 3di (I-129) from an interstate that doesn't enter the state (I-29) (shared with Wisconsin - I-35/I-535).
What are you talking about NJ has I-287, an interstate that has its parent in another state as well. Plus both terminuses of it are with I-95 and not I-87. Though I-87 does come within a quarter mile of the NJ State Line at Exit 15 in Ramapo, NY.
Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
I just drove on RI-14 last night across this reservoir on a causeway.
We've been discussing this area at work. The CT/MA portion is called The Last Green Valley and it might be a good thing that I-84 wasn't extended.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthelastgreenvalley.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2FTHe-Last-Green-Valley-at-Night2.jpg&hash=48042dfe4b756f845c01cdb7a8339f8e148091c9)
At night, the region appears distinctively dark amid the urban and suburban glow when viewed from satellites or aircraft. In the daytime, the green fields and forests confirm the surprisingly rural character of the 1,100 square-mile area defined by the Quinebaug and Shetucket Rivers systems and the rugged hills that surround them. For this reason, northeastern Connecticut and south-central Massachusetts have been called "The Last Green Valley" in the sprawling metropolitan Boston-to-Washington Corridor.http://thelastgreenvalley.org/tlgv/what-is-the-last-green-valley/
I was trying to find the page that mentioned its ecological significance, but couldn't. Basically, it is the cleanest corridor to the sea between Portland, Me and D.C.. I-84 may have spoiled that.
Quote from: jon daly on July 19, 2018, 06:31:35 AMGreen Valley bullshit
I-95 crosses that valley too.
The area circled on that nighttime aerial and the area highlighted on the map are not the same. The large lighted hub to the right inside the circle is Providence.
Right, but for whatever reason the rural part of RI wasn't designated as the LGV.
Wrt Alps's comment, I-95 does go through there, but the area near there isn't well developed. Between Mystic and the West Warwick/Coventry R.I. area, there's a roughly 30 mile stretch where the only big development I see is off of Exit 3 along RI-138 in Richmond/Wyoming and a strip in Pawcatuck Conn. along CT-2 off of Exit 92. There are two truck stops, also, but I-95 is only a small sliver of light on that photo.)
Quote from: jon daly on July 19, 2018, 09:20:13 AM
Right, but for whatever reason the rural part of RI wasn't designated as the LGV.
Wrt Alps's comment, I-95 does go through there, but the area near there isn't well developed. Between Mystic and the West Warwick/Coventry R.I. area, there's a roughly 30 mile stretch where the only big development I see is off of Exit 3 along RI-138 in Richmond/Wyoming and a strip in Pawcatuck Conn. along CT-2 off of Exit 92. There are two truck stops, also, but I-95 is only a small sliver of light on that photo.)
But that's my point. If I-95 isn't developed, why would I-84 be?
^ The "I-84" segments would be noticeably closer to Providence and thus more prone to development pressure.
Quote from: froggie on July 20, 2018, 08:25:04 AM^ The "I-84" segments would be noticeably closer to Providence and thus more prone to development pressure.
In my experience, at least in the Northeast, such areas
are already prone to development pressure... highway or no highway.
I'd have to research this more, but there was a proposed jet/seaport in eastern Connecticut that never came to fruition and may've if I-84 made it to Killingly and the harbor was expanded in Norwich.
I found a report on Google Books that included a letter by a Canterbury woman that stated that I-84 would have only saved 8 minuts over the CT-2/CT-52 (I-395) route from Hartford to Killingly. Not sure I buy that.
https://books.google.com/books?id=RKs1AQAAMAAJ&dq=last+green+valley+providence+hartford+freeway&source=gbs_navlinks_s
Quote from: jon daly on July 20, 2018, 09:56:39 AM
I'd have to research this more, but there was a proposed jet/seaport in eastern Connecticut that never came to fruition and may've if I-84 made it to Killingly and the harbor was expanded in Norwich.
I found a report on Google Books that included a letter by a Canterbury woman that stated that I-84 would have only saved 8 minuts over the CT-2/CT-52 (I-395) route from Hartford to Killingly. Not sure I buy that.
https://books.google.com/books?id=RKs1AQAAMAAJ&dq=last+green+valley+providence+hartford+freeway&source=gbs_navlinks_s
Using I-384 and US 6 (close to notional I-84 route): about 49 miles
Using CT 2 and I-395: about 66 miles
17 miles * 60 minutes/hour / 8 minutes = 127 MPH. Either she's a crazy driver or her math doesn't check out.
Kurumi! You're the guy who led me to this place.
I'll have to ask an uncle of mine who married into our family. His dad was a DOT engineer. Looking at page 290 of that Google Books link that I posted, she claims that the 8 mile difference was estimated by "A DOT employee who has studied the proposed route carefully."
I had no idea that opposition to this was around in 1972. I thought that this was a later phenomon, but I was only four years old at the time. Watergate is my first clear news memory and that was a year later when that story became big.
Its not the time difference that necessarily matters, its the capacity. Anyone who has driven US 6 from Bolton to Brooklyn knows that its a pain in the ass during rush hour.
Where are the bottlenecks on that commute? I've driven that whole stretch, but my most recent (last few years) experience with it is usually on the stretch from CT-87 to I-384; and that's on the weekend.
The roughest stretches are the "Suicide 6" stretch from I-384 to the Willimantic bypass, and the stretch east of CT 198 to CT 12. Mostly 2 lanes with some tough site lines and hilly terrain. At least the Willimantic bypass is a full 65 MPH expressway and the 4 lane stretch near Windham Airport is pretty low stress to drive.
I must say that Suicide 6 is better now than it was in the 1990s. A HS classmate was involved in a fatal accident there about 25 years ago,
Quote from: jon daly on July 21, 2018, 10:00:57 PM
Where are the bottlenecks on that commute? I've driven that whole stretch, but my most recent (last few years) experience with it is usually on the stretch from CT-87 to I-384; and that's on the weekend.
Bottlenecks happen when people don't go the speed limit, and. when there's a hill and the lead driver in the pocket can't give their car more gas.
And yes the sight lines have improved dramatically thanks to shoulder widening and keeping the trees trimmed.
Quote from: jon daly on July 22, 2018, 08:22:23 AM
I must say that Suicide 6 is better now than it was in the 1990s. A HS classmate was involved in a fatal accident there about 25 years ago,
Were pylons placed down the middle of the center double yellow line? Vehicle trips in that area may have also decreased - due to the extreme cost of living, and younger people leaving.
Quote from: DJStephens on July 22, 2018, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: jon daly on July 22, 2018, 08:22:23 AM
I must say that Suicide 6 is better now than it was in the 1990s. A HS classmate was involved in a fatal accident there about 25 years ago,
Were pylons placed down the middle of the center double yellow line? Vehicle trips in that area may have also decreased - due to the extreme cost of living, and younger people leaving.
No pylons in CT. I vaguely remember RI trying that on US-6 just past Killingly a while back but it was quickly abandoned. In CT the stretch from Bolton all the way to the RI line was straightened and sight lines improved in phases between 2000 and 2010 or so, with turn lanes added on the Bolton-Columbia stretch. Seems to have cut down on both the number and severity of accidents along the road.
Quote from: DJStephensVehicle trips in that area may have also decreased - due to the extreme cost of living, and younger people leaving.
I checked traffic volumes going back to 2002 and this does not appear to be the case here. Volumes on US 6 are a little higher than they were before the Great Recession, and certainly higher than they were in 2002.
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed. The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph.
I'm also sure CT DOT has erased some passing zones on the stretch over the years as people complained over safety. and it's PC to slow traffic down and take away passing zones for the perceived safety effect.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed. The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph.
There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature.
Quote from: 1 on July 23, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed. The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph.
There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature.
Sure they would, look at MA-8 and some of those roads, they're signed at 55mph at certain spots.
Btw, a few years back RI gave US-6 a road diet narrowing it from 4 to two lanes.
Quote from: 1 on July 23, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed. The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph.
There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature.
It's signed 55 somewhere in between Fall River and New Bedford.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on July 23, 2018, 06:30:30 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 23, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed. The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph.
There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature. It's signed 55 somewhere in between Fall River and New Bedford.
Corrections to below-post in blue.Based on GSV, the only place where US 6 is 55 in that vicinity is in Westport between MA 88 & 177. Elsewhere, the highest limit posted along that stretch of US 6 is 50 mph. Lack of a shoulder/breakdown lane and surrounding development is the likely reason most of it's not posted at 55.
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 24, 2018, 08:59:41 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on July 23, 2018, 06:30:30 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 23, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed. The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph.
There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature.
It's signed 55 somewhere in between Fall River and New Bedford.
Based on GSV, the highest limit posted along that stretch of US 6 is 50 mph. Lack of a shoulder/breakdown lane and surrounding development is the likely reason it's not posted at 55.
Hmmm. Perhaps they changed it. Havent been on that stretch since 2014.
US 6 between New Bedford and Fall River definitely has a stretch of 55, through Westport: WB (https://goo.gl/maps/aie8EQQGwfC2), EB (https://goo.gl/maps/8WjguKYuWck), at least as of June 2017.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 03:06:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 23, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 23, 2018, 02:52:12 PM
The road east of the US-6 expressway is straight with slow vehicle lanes but all you need is one slow guy and you're doomed. The speed limit is only 50mph, while I bet if this were MA or NY it would've been 55mph.
There's no way MA would sign it at 55. Probably 35-45, changing every 1000 feet, depending on the curvature.
Sure they would, look at MA-8 and some of those roads, they're signed at 55mph at certain spots.
Yeah, and those certain spots are still only 1000 feet long. Ever been on the 55 sections of US 7? Damn thing drops down to 45 or 50 for every curve and intersection. It's ridiculous.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 26, 2018, 08:43:44 PMUS 6 between New Bedford and Fall River definitely has a stretch of 55, through Westport: WB (https://goo.gl/maps/aie8EQQGwfC2), EB (https://goo.gl/maps/8WjguKYuWck), at least as of June 2017.
To add; between MA 88 & 177. I have since corrected my previous post.