New York State Thruway

[vdeane]

Does anyone happen to still have the plans for the Harriman plaza AET conversion?  I saw the tandem lot on the Yonkers one and was wondering if anything similar was happening at Harriman (and if so, how it's signed).  I'm updating the exit list on my website on Saturday, and I'd like for it to be accurate if possible.

EDIT: Found them, though sadly they lack signage.

[Buffaboy]

Exit 57/NY 75

[seicer]

Surprised it was not a roundabout.

[MikeCL]

Anyone know what's going on 95N/s near Port Chester? they took out a whole lane in both directions.. and then 95 SB off exit 21 they seem to be doing something.

[shadyjay]

Most likely because of this:

https://www.thruway.ny.gov/oursystem/last-mile/index.html

[Buffaboy]

Thruway WB between Exits 55 and Lackawanna Toll Booth has been fully reconstructed and reopened. The section between Ridge Road and the toll booths in particular received the most visible upgrades.

On my drive home earlier, it appeared as though there is room for a 3rd lane in the left shoulder. While I doubt this will happen, I wonder why the shoulder is so wide.

[route17fan]

D214702 I-190 overhead sign replacement project with some more tubular gantries coming.

Link: http://www.thruway.ny.gov/netdata/contractors/documents/d214702_tan18-37_plans-volume-1-of-1.pdf

[webny99]

I had the pleasure of driving the Thruway to Syracuse on Monday, and back to Rochester on Tuesday.

Interestingly, Tuesday from 7-8 PM was actually busier than Monday from 4-5 PM. Thanksgiving travel on the increase, maybe. Fortunately, traffic was heavy but moving along quite nicely on both days.

Looks like I'll also be heading to Buffalo and back on Sunday (no, not for the Bills game  ).
Does anyone else get the privilege of traveling on the Thruway this holiday season?

[webny99]

Looks like I'll also be heading to Buffalo and back on Sunday (no, not for the Bills game).

Sadly, due to circumstances just outside my control, our day trip got cancelled. I'm really bummed, because I always look forward to traveling on the Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend; it promises to be heavy traffic and therefore an enjoyable study and an opportunity to further build the case for six-laning the thruway. 

Guess I'll have to resort to Google Maps live traffic, and the Thruway's traffic cameras, instead of getting to experience the madness in person. 

Does anyone else get the privilege of traveling on the Thruway this holiday season?

[froggie]

What you should do is schedule your trip for a regular weekend.  Holiday weekends such as Thanksgiving do not build a good case for widening highways because they are anomalies compared to normal flow.  Especially Thanksgiving which is the busiest travel weekend of the year.  Now if you string together a few dozen such weekends or travel periods, you'd have a better case.

[webny99]

Oh, sorry I wasn't more clear. We head up to Canada quite often, easily a dozen or more times a year. I agree; it is good to get a variety of conditions, times of year, etc. before building a case for widening. I just look forward to traveling on holiday weekends more than the average weekend because rest assured the Thruway will be busy.

And not just because I want evidence for widening the Thruway; my favorite traffic conditions for travel are indeed (a) heavy and (b) fast moving. Unfortunately, the intense combination of the two all too often leads to an accident. There were at least two accidents in my region on the Thruway today; one just west of Syracuse early this afternoon, and another this evening (in the thick of the Bill's game traffic) near Pembroke.

[Buffaboy]

What you should do is schedule your trip for a regular weekend.  Holiday weekends such as Thanksgiving do not build a good case for widening highways because they are anomalies compared to normal flow.  Especially Thanksgiving which is the busiest travel weekend of the year.  Now if you string together a few dozen such weekends or travel periods, you'd have a better case.

Bills games drive a decent amount of traffic between Buffalo and Rochester 8 times a year

[froggie]

However, that's just 8 times a year.  Most design hour volumes are looking anywhere from the lowest of the top 30 to the lowest of the top 100, depending on jurisdiction and finances.

A good rule of thumb for the Thruway, if weekend volumes are consistently higher than weekdays, would be to look at all 52 weekend volumes and take the median.

[webny99]

I've often thought that if a lane in each direction was added to the Thruway, they could essentially close/not maintain it during the winter. Six lanes are not really needed between Thanksgiving and March (Bill's games and Christmas travel being the exceptions).

[Beltway]

I've often thought that if a lane in each direction was added to the Thruway, they could essentially close/not maintain it during the winter. Six lanes are not really needed between Thanksgiving and March (Bill's games and Christmas travel being the exceptions).

Close it how -- with barrels?  Then they would have to be maintained.  In any event even if closed the lane would still need to be maintained at least to shoulder standards.

[ipeters61]

I think I heard somewhere that I-66 in the DC suburbs of Virginia opens the shoulder to through traffic during peak hours.  Would that be an option on the NY Thruway if there was a large enough shoulder?

[Rothman]

I think I heard somewhere that I-66 in the DC suburbs of Virginia opens the shoulder to through traffic during peak hours.  Would that be an option on the NY Thruway if there was a large enough shoulder?

I really doubt they would try that stunt up here.  I-66 also has signage that helps drivers know when and how to drive on the shoulder.  It isn't like you can just open them to traffic.  Exits become more problematic if not implemented properly.

[froggie]

^ It's also going away with the current reconstruction project that's adding the HO/T lanes to 66.

[5foot14]

I think I heard somewhere that I-66 in the DC suburbs of Virginia opens the shoulder to through traffic during peak hours.  Would that be an option on the NY Thruway if there was a large enough shoulder?

I really doubt they would try that stunt up here.  I-66 also has signage that helps drivers know when and how to drive on the shoulder.  It isn't like you can just open them to traffic.  Exits become more problematic if not implemented properly.

They do that bs on I-93 in Massachusetts between exit 41 and 46. I can tell you from personal experience even with appropriate signage for using the breakdown lane, many people still misuse it. I've seen lots of accidents and near misses, usually always at interchanges. I wouldn't recommend it anywhere.

SM-G900P

[roadman]

I think I heard somewhere that I-66 in the DC suburbs of Virginia opens the shoulder to through traffic during peak hours.  Would that be an option on the NY Thruway if there was a large enough shoulder?

I really doubt they would try that stunt up here.  I-66 also has signage that helps drivers know when and how to drive on the shoulder.  It isn't like you can just open them to traffic.  Exits become more problematic if not implemented properly.

They do that bs on I-93 in Massachusetts between exit 41 and 46. I can tell you from personal experience even with appropriate signage for using the breakdown lane, many people still misuse it. I've seen lots of accidents and near misses, usually always at interchanges. I wouldn't recommend it anywhere.

In general, experience has shown that the accident rate for shoulder (breakdown) lanes where peak hour travel is permitted is not statistically greater than the overall accident rate for the other travel lanes.  The accident problem with peak hour shoulder use tends to be exaggerated as an issue because the types of crashes, which usually involve a vehicle illegally driving on the shoulder outside the permitted hours colliding with a disabled vehicle, tend to be more severe than other accidents.

[froggie]

A relevant FHWA report on shoulder use using examples from the Netherlands, Germany, and the U.S., including the breakdown lane use in Massachusetts.  The FHWA report says the crash statistics in Massachusetts are "hard to assess" because the crash data does not indicate which lane the crash occurred in.

[ipeters61]

^ It's also going away with the current reconstruction project that's adding the HO/T lanes to 66.

I was trying to figure out why the signage disappeared in the later Google Maps image.

[webny99]

Yeah, I don't foresee the shoulder ever being used as a lane on the Thruway. That is just too big of a deviation from most drivers expectations on such a high quality road.

As I think I've mentioned before, all the bridges are already wide enough for six lanes. Can't be that hard to pave another lane. No ROW acquisition would be required either.

[Alps]

Toll agencies generally shy away from that. The NJ Turnpike did it on 78 but I think they restriped 14A as well to avoid the unexpected merge conflict.

[SignBridge]

My understanding is that the NJ Turnpike Authority considered and rejected the idea of peak-hour shoulder use as potentially unsafe. Not surprising for an agency that sticks to the safest engineering principles including no exits or entrances on the left side.

The German Autobahns do allow shoulder use in some areas but the lane-control signs are very strictly controlled by dispatchers who have virtually the entire length of the lane under continuous camera surveillance. They will not open the lane to traffic if there are any disabled cars on the shoulder.

In general I agree with the NJ Tpk. Auth. about not allowing shoulder use due to the obvious danger.