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Why doesn't i-84 end in providence?

Started by silverback1065, August 10, 2017, 07:50:58 AM

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southshore720

My pipe dream wish is a bare minimum fix that would link I-384 in Bolton to the Willimantic Bypass and renaming the US 6 freeway to I-384 (or making it a multiplex route).  However, I'll throw that in the trunk with the Route 11 extension to I-95.


roadman65

I would like to see I-84 go onto the Mass Pike and take over I-290 and I-495 and have it end where I-495 ends just south of NH.  Of course we are going into fictional highways here so enough said.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jp the roadgeek

Quote from: roadman65 on August 19, 2017, 10:41:31 PM
I would like to see I-84 go onto the Mass Pike and take over I-290 and I-495 and have it end where I-495 ends just south of NH.  Of course we are going into fictional highways here so enough said.

Similar to my idea where I-84 is extended along the MA 49 corridor then bends around to meet the E/W portion of I-290, but instead gets extended eastward to meet 128 near the Waltham/Lexington line.  I-290 would be a full N/S route and take over I-190 to Fitchburg. 
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

roadman65

It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate.  However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.

CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

cpzilliacus

Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate.  However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.

To some extent, DE-1 (the Relief Route toll road) serves as a N-S Interstate, at least from Dover to I-95.

Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.

Many of those NIMBYs are people with substantial amounts of money, and are happy with the status quo, and usually are not concerned about safety.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

jp the roadgeek

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 20, 2017, 09:28:59 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.

Many of those NIMBYs are people with substantial amounts of money, and are happy with the status quo, and usually are not concerned about safety.

Not necessarily.  Windham County, CT is kind of rural with quite a bit of farmland; not like the Gold Coast Fairfield County image that you would otherwise have of CT. The roadblocks that posed the greatest obstacles to completing the highway were environmental in nature.  The first was just east of where I-384 currently ends, and how the highway would pass through the Hop River watershed.  The second was Scituate Reservoir in RI.  The former was bogged down by EIS after EIS a la Route 11, while the latter was just too big an obstacle to go around.  Also, RI couldn't pick an option for where the east end of I-84 would go; the most logical option was the US 6 expressway, but one option had it bending south to meet the RI 37 expressway.   
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

JJBers

Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.

Many of those NIMBYs are people with substantial amounts of money, and are happy with the status quo, and usually are not concerned about safety.
[/quote]
We're about as dirt poor in Connecticut as you can get. (The county)
Also, while I like highways, I don't like the sound they create. When I went camping this weekend, it was right next to CT 11, and even for a unfinished highway to Salem, it's loud and annoying. Now imagine living 4 miles away from a major highway. For me, it's not fun.
*for Connecticut
Clinched Stats,
Flickr,
(2di:I-24, I-76, I-80, I-84, I-95 [ME-GA], I-91)

Brandon

Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate.  However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.

CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.

Um, Nebraska does have a second primary interstate, even it's only for 2 miles (I-76).  Now, they do sign it "north" and "south".  Nebraska also has the interesting situation of having a 3di (I-129) from an interstate that doesn't enter the state (I-29) (shared with Wisconsin - I-35/I-535).
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

The Nature Boy

Quote from: Brandon on August 22, 2017, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate.  However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.

CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.

Um, Nebraska does have a second primary interstate, even it's only for 2 miles (I-76).  Now, they do sign it "north" and "south".  Nebraska also has the interesting situation of having a 3di (I-129) from an interstate that doesn't enter the state (I-29) (shared with Wisconsin - I-35/I-535).

New Jersey also has this with I-287 and 87.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: JJBers on August 22, 2017, 12:47:30 AM
When I went camping this weekend, it was right next to CT 11, and even for a unfinished highway to Salem, it's loud and annoying. Now imagine living 4 miles away from a major highway. For me, it's not fun.

I live less than 1 mile from a major expressway-type road (U.S. 29) and a toll road less than 10 years old (MD-200), obviously not in New England. 

The state installed noise barriers along U.S. 29, and has kept trees in place along the toll road, and some noise barriers (but not near my home).  The interchange between MD-200 and I-95 is about 2 miles away.  What are the loudest transportation noises I hear?

1. Loud motorcycles (usually, but not always, "crotch rocket" or "sport bike" type motorcycles);

2. Whistles (horns) from a CSX trains at a grade crossing about 4.75 miles away.

3. Once in a while, I will hear an exhaust brake (engine brake) from a nearby passing heavy truck, but that is rare.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

jp the roadgeek

Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 22, 2017, 12:39:29 PM
Quote from: Brandon on August 22, 2017, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate.  However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.

CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.

Um, Nebraska does have a second primary interstate, even it's only for 2 miles (I-76).  Now, they do sign it "north" and "south".  Nebraska also has the interesting situation of having a 3di (I-129) from an interstate that doesn't enter the state (I-29) (shared with Wisconsin - I-35/I-535).

New Jersey also has this with I-287 and 87.

As does Indiana with I-75/I-275.  NY comes oh so close on a second and third one with I-78/I-278 & I-678

I also live about a mile as the crow flies from  I-84.  There's enough noise on the streets in between to drown out any highway noise, except for the loud engine brake late at night when all is quiet and I go outside.
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

JJBers

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 22, 2017, 04:34:56 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 22, 2017, 12:39:29 PM
Quote from: Brandon on August 22, 2017, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate.  However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.

CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.

Um, Nebraska does have a second primary interstate, even it's only for 2 miles (I-76).  Now, they do sign it "north" and "south".  Nebraska also has the interesting situation of having a 3di (I-129) from an interstate that doesn't enter the state (I-29) (shared with Wisconsin - I-35/I-535).

New Jersey also has this with I-287 and 87.

As does Indiana with I-75/I-275.  NY comes oh so close on a second and third one with I-78/I-278 & I-678

I also live about a mile as the crow flies from  I-84.  There's enough noise on the streets in between to drown out any highway noise, except for the loud engine brake late at night when all is quiet and I go outside.
Almost happened in Connecticut, with I-290 going down to New London.
*for Connecticut
Clinched Stats,
Flickr,
(2di:I-24, I-76, I-80, I-84, I-95 [ME-GA], I-91)

RobbieL2415

They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade.  Think US 13.

JJBers

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade.  Think US 13.
This is Connecticut, not Virginia. It wouldn't work any day around here
*for Connecticut
Clinched Stats,
Flickr,
(2di:I-24, I-76, I-80, I-84, I-95 [ME-GA], I-91)

mrsman

Quote from: JJBers on September 07, 2017, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade.  Think US 13.
This is Connecticut, not Virginia. It wouldn't work any day around here
I wish more states would take the VA approach.  There are many overburdened 2 lane roads in this country that could use  similar upgrades.  Much cheaper than a full freeway in a lot of corridors that don't need a full freeway.  Good quality secondary roads can keep a lot of local and regional traffic off the interstates.

Roadsguy

There are a few of these roads in PA (US 11/15 Duncannon to Selinsgrove, US 22 Colonial Park to Berks County line, US 30 Bedford to Breezewood, US 220 west of Williamsport, etc.), but they're few and far between, and usually only in small bits and pieces and not anything useful as a long-distance route. The only specific ones I can think of that are four lanes and divided over long distances are US 22 from Pittsburgh to Hollidaysburg, US 15 from Maryland to Harrisburg (minus the congested section around Dillsburg), and US 11/15 up to Selinsgrove, which is only a relatively small upgrade away from a logical I-83 extension.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

DJStephens

Quote from: JJBers on September 07, 2017, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade.  Think US 13.
This is Connecticut, not Virginia. It wouldn't work any day around here

Connecticut DID do that with the short US 7 extension in the southwestern part of the state.  At least the northern part of it.  The should have built the whole thing, between I-95 and I-84, to full standards, but likely too much in this day and age.   

cl94

Quote from: DJStephens on July 14, 2018, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: JJBers on September 07, 2017, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade.  Think US 13.
This is Connecticut, not Virginia. It wouldn't work any day around here

Connecticut DID do that with the short US 7 extension in the southwestern part of the state.  At least the northern part of it.  The should have built the whole thing, between I-95 and I-84, to full standards, but likely too much in this day and age.

Yeah, I was gonna say, a decent amount of US 7 is like that, even if it has a 50 MPH limit. The section around Branchville is 2 lanes. Most of the rest south of New Milford is 4 lanes.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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Beltway

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 20, 2017, 09:28:59 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate.  However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.
To some extent, DE-1 (the Relief Route toll road) serves as a N-S Interstate, at least from Dover to I-95.

Could easily be I-195, but that is not a primary Interstate.  They could do that by making it I-99 down to Dover.  It is far enough from the other I-99 that it shouldn't be turned down.
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Alps

Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2018, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on July 14, 2018, 04:15:11 PM
Quote from: JJBers on September 07, 2017, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade.  Think US 13.
This is Connecticut, not Virginia. It wouldn't work any day around here

Connecticut DID do that with the short US 7 extension in the southwestern part of the state.  At least the northern part of it.  The should have built the whole thing, between I-95 and I-84, to full standards, but likely too much in this day and age.

Yeah, I was gonna say, a decent amount of US 7 is like that, even if it has a 50 MPH limit. The section around Branchville is 2 lanes. Most of the rest south of New Milford is 4 lanes.
But unlike the south, every intersection up here needs a traffic light because of the volumes, so it's not nearly as efficient as a four-lane in VA.

Duke87

Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2018, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade.  Think US 13.
Yeah, I was gonna say, a decent amount of US 7 is like that, even if it has a 50 MPH limit. The section around Branchville is 2 lanes. Most of the rest south of New Milford is 4 lanes.

A fairly recent development, by the way. US 7 was only 2 lanes all the way from Wilton up to the southern end of the freeway segment near Danbury Airport until ~2010.

There were active plans to complete the freeway between Norwalk and Danbury even in the 90s (the section from exit 2 to the T intersection at Grist Mill Road opened in 1992). Once the state gave up on ever actually finishing the freeway, they went and 4-laned two sections of the existing road instead.

Most of the section between CT 35 and Danbury Airport was supposed to have a median barrier instead of just double yellow lines, but NIMBYs balked at that because it made the road look too much like a freeway.


As for the "Virginia Boulevard" idea for US 6, keep in mind that Connecticut would probably make the speed limit on such a facility 45 because Connecticut. (ConnDOT will not post above 50 on anything that isn't a freeway and even then only uses 50 on non-freeways sparingly).




If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

RobbieL2415

Quote from: Duke87 on July 15, 2018, 10:30:12 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2018, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 07, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
They should do what I call a Virginia Boulevard. Four-lane it, bypass village sections and give it a 55MPH speed limit but keep it at-grade.  Think US 13.
Yeah, I was gonna say, a decent amount of US 7 is like that, even if it has a 50 MPH limit. The section around Branchville is 2 lanes. Most of the rest south of New Milford is 4 lanes.

A fairly recent development, by the way. US 7 was only 2 lanes all the way from Wilton up to the southern end of the freeway segment near Danbury Airport until ~2010.

There were active plans to complete the freeway between Norwalk and Danbury even in the 90s (the section from exit 2 to the T intersection at Grist Mill Road opened in 1992). Once the state gave up on ever actually finishing the freeway, they went and 4-laned two sections of the existing road instead.

Most of the section between CT 35 and Danbury Airport was supposed to have a median barrier instead of just double yellow lines, but NIMBYs balked at that because it made the road look too much like a freeway.


As for the "Virginia Boulevard" idea for US 6, keep in mind that Connecticut would probably make the speed limit on such a facility 45 because Connecticut. (ConnDOT will not post above 50 on anything that isn't a freeway and even then only uses 50 on non-freeways sparingly).
The Berlin Turnpike and John Fitch Boulevard are the only two I can think of.  A design similar to those two streets is what I was envisioning.

roadman65

Quote from: Brandon on August 22, 2017, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
It's a shame RI never got a second primary interstate.  However, DE, ME, and NE have only one so its not that bad especially for a state smaller than the country's largest county that is San Bernardino, CA.

CT had NIMBYs who did not want it to continue east of Hartford, it would have been nice to have a freeway connecting the two state capitals.

Um, Nebraska does have a second primary interstate, even it's only for 2 miles (I-76).  Now, they do sign it "north" and "south".  Nebraska also has the interesting situation of having a 3di (I-129) from an interstate that doesn't enter the state (I-29) (shared with Wisconsin - I-35/I-535).
What are you talking about NJ has I-287, an interstate that has its parent in another state as well.  Plus both terminuses of it are with I-95 and not I-87.  Though I-87 does come within a quarter mile of the NJ State Line at Exit 15 in Ramapo, NY.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jon daly

Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.

I just drove on RI-14 last night across this reservoir on a causeway.

We've been discussing this area at work. The CT/MA portion is called The Last Green Valley and it might be a good thing that I-84 wasn't extended.



At night, the region appears distinctively dark amid the urban and suburban glow when viewed from satellites or aircraft.  In the daytime, the green fields and forests confirm the surprisingly rural character of the 1,100 square-mile area defined by the Quinebaug and Shetucket Rivers systems and the rugged hills that surround them.  For this reason, northeastern Connecticut and south-central Massachusetts have been called "The Last Green Valley"  in the sprawling metropolitan Boston-to-Washington Corridor.

http://thelastgreenvalley.org/tlgv/what-is-the-last-green-valley/

I was trying to find the page that mentioned its ecological significance, but couldn't. Basically, it is the cleanest corridor to the sea between Portland, Me and D.C.. I-84 may have spoiled that.

Alps




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