PA-NJ-DE Delaware River Crossings

[Beltway]

Interesting, so if the Walt Whitman Bridge predates both I-95 an the Schuylkill Expressway, what was it meant to connect to on the PA side? PA 291? Wasn't he Schuylkill Expressway already being planned when the bridge was built? Why were there no provisions to connect the two?

The bridge was built 1953-57 so that would mean that it was contemporary with the Schuylkill Expressway which was built in 1949-59.

So the two would have been planned to connect as they did.

[bzakharin]

Interesting, so if the Walt Whitman Bridge predates both I-95 an the Schuylkill Expressway, what was it meant to connect to on the PA side? PA 291? Wasn't he Schuylkill Expressway already being planned when the bridge was built? Why were there no provisions to connect the two?

The bridge was built 1953-57 so that would mean that it was contemporary with the Schuylkill Expressway which was built in 1949-59.

So the two would have been planned to connect as they did.

The article says

The roadway was built and designed in the 1950s as a bridge approach, before it was part of the interstate highway system. Its primary mission was to take toll-paying traffic to and from the bridge, not to help traffic originating in Pennsylvania to travel away from the bridge.

The highway's role as an adjunct to the bridge explains why there are no exits from I-95 for traffic heading west on I-76 – but there are convenient exits on I-95 that take vehicles across the Walt Whitman Bridge.

This to me implies the bridge would connect to I-95 but not the Schuylkill Expressway. But based on how those I-95 ramps are built, it seems clear that the roadway was not supposed to end at I-95.

[famartin]

Interesting, so if the Walt Whitman Bridge predates both I-95 an the Schuylkill Expressway, what was it meant to connect to on the PA side? PA 291? Wasn't he Schuylkill Expressway already being planned when the bridge was built? Why were there no provisions to connect the two?

The bridge was built 1953-57 so that would mean that it was contemporary with the Schuylkill Expressway which was built in 1949-59.

So the two would have been planned to connect as they did.

The article says

The roadway was built and designed in the 1950s as a bridge approach, before it was part of the interstate highway system. Its primary mission was to take toll-paying traffic to and from the bridge, not to help traffic originating in Pennsylvania to travel away from the bridge.

The highway's role as an adjunct to the bridge explains why there are no exits from I-95 for traffic heading west on I-76 – but there are convenient exits on I-95 that take vehicles across the Walt Whitman Bridge.

This to me implies the bridge would connect to I-95 but not the Schuylkill Expressway. But based on how those I-95 ramps are built, it seems clear that the roadway was not supposed to end at I-95.

It sounds like it is/was a situation like I-895 in Baltimore - no exits before the tolls northbound. Southbound exits were OK because they were coming off the already tolled I-95/JFK Highway.

[Beltway]

The bridge was built 1953-57 so that would mean that it was contemporary with the Schuylkill Expressway which was built in 1949-59.
So the two would have been planned to connect as they did.

The article says

The roadway was built and designed in the 1950s as a bridge approach, before it was part of the interstate highway system. Its primary mission was to take toll-paying traffic to and from the bridge, not to help traffic originating in Pennsylvania to travel away from the bridge.
The highway's role as an adjunct to the bridge explains why there are no exits from I-95 for traffic heading west on I-76 – but there are convenient exits on I-95 that take vehicles across the Walt Whitman Bridge.

This to me implies the bridge would connect to I-95 but not the Schuylkill Expressway. But based on how those I-95 ramps are built, it seems clear that the roadway was not supposed to end at I-95.

The Schuylkill Expressway wasn't part of the Interstate highway system when it was completed, it was PA-43.

There was no detailed design for I-95 in the late 1950s, so they wouldn't have been thinking about how to tie the bridge to I-95.

There is no exit from southerly I-95 to I-76 WB because Broad Street and PA-291 handle that movement in a more direct manner.

[cpzilliacus]

It sounds like it is/was a situation like I-895 in Baltimore - no exits before the tolls northbound. Southbound exits were OK because they were coming off the already tolled I-95/JFK Highway.

Not exactly. 

I-895 (Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway) used to have exactly one "free" exit southbound - at Moravia Road (presently I-895 Exit 14).  After that, the next exits were after the toll barrier (and south of the tunnel) at Frankfurst Avenue (presently Exits 8A and 8B).

In more recent time, a "free" exit was added southbound at Lombard Street (present Exit 12) perhaps to improve highway access to Bayview Hospital (a "free" entrance ramp from Lombard Street to I-895 northbound was added at the same time).

Also, the southern part of the JFK Highway (roughly present-day Exit 62 (I-895) to Exit 67 (MD-43)) was never tolled, even though it has long been maintained by the MDTA (I can remember when this short section of freeway was maintained by MDOT/SHA).   When the JFK Highway had tolls on the ramps (discontinued about 1982 or 1983 in Maryland), there were several warning signs northbound approaching Exit 67 (exit numbers were different then) that the road was a toll road beyond MD-43.   Because all of the ramp tolls were coin-drop only, the signs should have warned that the ramps were unstaffed and exact change was required (but MDTA and its predecessor never signed that).

[ixnay]

Because all of the [JFK Highway in MD] ramp tolls were coin-drop only, the signs should have warned that the ramps were unstaffed and exact change was required (but MDTA and its predecessor never signed that).

Per Wikipedia, the MdTA was established in 1971 (halfway through Marvin Mandel's first gubernatorial term).  Was the State Roads Commission responsible for Maryland's toll facilities prior to that?

ixnay

[jeffandnicole]

Interesting, so if the Walt Whitman Bridge predates both I-95 an the Schuylkill Expressway, what was it meant to connect to on the PA side? PA 291? Wasn't he Schuylkill Expressway already being planned when the bridge was built? Why were there no provisions to connect the two?

The bridge was built 1953-57 so that would mean that it was contemporary with the Schuylkill Expressway which was built in 1949-59.

So the two would have been planned to connect as they did.

The article says

The roadway was built and designed in the 1950s as a bridge approach, before it was part of the interstate highway system. Its primary mission was to take toll-paying traffic to and from the bridge, not to help traffic originating in Pennsylvania to travel away from the bridge.

The highway’s role as an adjunct to the bridge explains why there are no exits from I-95 for traffic heading west on I-76 — but there are convenient exits on I-95 that take vehicles across the Walt Whitman Bridge.

This to me implies the bridge would connect to I-95 but not the Schuylkill Expressway. But based on how those I-95 ramps are built, it seems clear that the roadway was not supposed to end at I-95.

Looking at Historic Aerials, there's a shot from 1953 before the bridge was completed, but then there's not another aerial until 1965, when the bridge and the Schuylkill were completed, so the actual timeline there is a bit fuzzy.  It's also notable that 95 wasn't even started in 1965 and not for a while after that.  The original ramps just west the (2-way) plaza were intended to serve Front Street, and was eventually modified to serve 95 when 95 was built.  It doesn't appear there was much in the way of any allowances for 95.

The Schuylkill Expressway was basically a surface street originally before they created a highway.  It does appear the Walt Whitman Expressway was shoehorned in between railroad tracks as it "S" curves near Oregon and 26th Streets.

[cpzilliacus]

Because all of the [JFK Highway in MD] ramp tolls were coin-drop only, the signs should have warned that the ramps were unstaffed and exact change was required (but MDTA and its predecessor never signed that).

Per Wikipedia, the MdTA was established in 1971 (halfway through Marvin Mandel's first gubernatorial term).  Was the State Roads Commission responsible for Maryland's toll facilities prior to that?

ixnay

Control of Maryland's state toll roads and toll crossings went from State Roads Commission (when MDOT was formed) to a short-lived agency called the Maryland Toll Facilities Administration to the Maryland Transportation Authority (MDTA).   I believe that Toll Facilities Administration was legally part of the new Maryland Department of Transportation, while MDTA has always been an independent agency, though the MDTA Board has by law always been chaired by the Secretary of Transportation.

What is now the MDTA Police had the name Maryland Toll Facilities Police for many years after MDTA was formed, the name was only changed to the MDTA Police in the 1990's.

[Interstatefan78]

For the Easton, PA-Phillipsburg, NJ Delaware River bridges the newest is I-78 Delaware River Bridge which opened on November 21, 1989, followed by US-22 Easton Phillipsburg Bridge January 14, 1938, and the Oldest being 1895 Northampton St bridge which replaced a wooden bridge from 1806.
weblinks to the date of opening
of these Easton, PA-Phillipsburg, NJ Delaware River crossings are https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/2009/11/interstate_78_toll_bridge_over.html and https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/easton/2016/05/a_century_of_eastons_bridges_p.html

[jeffandnicole]

DRPA Bridges (Walt Whitman, Ben Franklin, Betsy Ross & Commodore Barry) from NJ to PA will restart collecting cash tolls on May 11.

[cpzilliacus]

Because all of the [JFK Highway in MD] ramp tolls were coin-drop only, the signs should have warned that the ramps were unstaffed and exact change was required (but MDTA and its predecessor never signed that).

Per Wikipedia, the MdTA was established in 1971 (halfway through Marvin Mandel's first gubernatorial term).  Was the State Roads Commission responsible for Maryland's toll facilities prior to that?

I do not think your question was ever answered.  In the 1950's, when Maryland built large toll projects like the WPL (Chesapeake Bay) Bridge and the BHT (Baltimore Harbor Tunnel) their construction was funded by toll revenue bonds sold by the State Roads Commission (SRC).  Same for the 1960's Northeast Expressway part of I-95 (JFK Highway now).

In the late 1960's, when the SRC became part of the infant Maryland Department of Transportation and was renamed the State Highway Administration, the toll roads were spun off into a new agency called the Toll Facilities Administration.  The Toll Facilities Administration did not last very long, as it morphed into the independent MDTA in 1971.

[RobbieL2415]

Are they almost done realigning the Philly end of the Betsy Ross?

[Alps]

Are they almost done realigning the Philly end of the Betsy Ross?

It's not a realignment, it's opening up a downtown connection straight onto the bridge, and yes they are very close.

[ekt8750]

New signage has gone up at the foot of the Walt Whitman as part of the (widening?) project being done on the bridge approach.

Untitled by Eric Butler, on Flickr

Interestingly enough, DRPA has embraced the APL:

Untitled by Eric Butler, on Flickr

[jeffandnicole]

They're not doing any widening here, but the signage does look nice.

It's part of an overall signage replacement project, which includes the lane signals on the bridge itself.

[74/171FAN]

Looking at this thread now, I am surprised to not see an advertisement for roadwaywiz's recent webinars on the Delaware River Crossings.   

[roadman65]

It sounds like it is/was a situation like I-895 in Baltimore - no exits before the tolls northbound. Southbound exits were OK because they were coming off the already tolled I-95/JFK Highway.

Not exactly. 

I-895 (Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway) used to have exactly one "free" exit southbound - at Moravia Road (presently I-895 Exit 14).  After that, the next exits were after the toll barrier (and south of the tunnel) at Frankfurst Avenue (presently Exits 8A and 8B).

In more recent time, a "free" exit was added southbound at Lombard Street (present Exit 12) perhaps to improve highway access to Bayview Hospital (a "free" entrance ramp from Lombard Street to I-895 northbound was added at the same time).

Also, the southern part of the JFK Highway (roughly present-day Exit 62 (I-895) to Exit 67 (MD-43)) was never tolled, even though it has long been maintained by the MDTA (I can remember when this short section of freeway was maintained by MDOT/SHA).   When the JFK Highway had tolls on the ramps (discontinued about 1982 or 1983 in Maryland), there were several warning signs northbound approaching Exit 67 (exit numbers were different then) that the road was a toll road beyond MD-43.   Because all of the ramp tolls were coin-drop only, the signs should have warned that the ramps were unstaffed and exact change was required (but MDTA and its predecessor never signed that).

That's because in the 60s and 70s most people carried coins in their cars ash trays or someplace in it for snacks and such. No one even heard of a debit card to replace cash then, and most people always carried cash in coin form especially for the pay phones as cellular phones were for the rich mounted on car dashboards then.

[Roadsguy]

New signage has gone up at the foot of the Walt Whitman as part of the (widening?) project being done on the bridge approach.

Untitled by Eric Butler, on Flickr

Interestingly enough, DRPA has embraced the APL:

Untitled by Eric Butler, on Flickr

Good looking DRPA signage? What is this world coming to‽ They're Highway Gothic, too, which is nice. Has the DRPA ever actually used Clearview?

I also like the approach of putting the road name next to the route shield. I wish PennDOT did this more often, i.e. at all.

Also, who's going to be the one to tell them that Trenton isn't the northbound control city for I-95 anymore?

[RobbieL2415]

Why is Seventh spelled out?

[famartin]

What I find interesting is they reverted back to "Trenton" instead of using "New York" (maybe DRPA didn't get the memo from PennDOT)

[ekt8750]

Good looking DRPA signage? What is this world coming to‽ They're Highway Gothic, too, which is nice. Has the DRPA ever actually used Clearview?

The Commodore Barry Bridge on the PA where they built the ramps to the soccer stadium. I believe that's their only dabbling in Clearview.

What I find interesting is they reverted back to "Trenton" instead of using "New York" (maybe DRPA didn't get the memo from PennDOT)

I'm guessing they figured if you're coming from that way, you're highly unlikely trying to go to NY. I'd actually consider using Yardley for that sign.

[famartin]

Good looking DRPA signage? What is this world coming to‽ They're Highway Gothic, too, which is nice. Has the DRPA ever actually used Clearview?

The Commodore Barry Bridge on the PA where they built the ramps to the soccer stadium. I believe that's their only dabbling in Clearview.

What I find interesting is they reverted back to "Trenton" instead of using "New York" (maybe DRPA didn't get the memo from PennDOT)

I'm guessing they figured if you're coming from that way, you're highly unlikely trying to go to NY. I'd actually consider using Yardley for that sign.

Perhaps, but there are other places you could make that argument (the Betsy Ross Bridge, for example) where they changed them to "New York" anyway (which, I suppose, suggests DRPA did get the memo? Or is the entirety of the interchange at the Betsy Ross Bridge under PennDOT jurisdiction?)

FWIW, the signs at the Walt Whitman are just exact duplicates of the old ones as far as the wording:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9101175,-75.1560548,3a,75y,285.77h,88.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdqrZsB_9JuokUEsOtolx6Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9103997,-75.1574078,3a,75y,285.77h,88.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shzlR9cgZYpunIaFBThNRRw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[famartin]

Good looking DRPA signage? What is this world coming to‽ They're Highway Gothic, too, which is nice. Has the DRPA ever actually used Clearview?

The Commodore Barry Bridge on the PA where they built the ramps to the soccer stadium. I believe that's their only dabbling in Clearview.

What I find interesting is they reverted back to "Trenton" instead of using "New York" (maybe DRPA didn't get the memo from PennDOT)

I'm guessing they figured if you're coming from that way, you're highly unlikely trying to go to NY. I'd actually consider using Yardley for that sign.

Perhaps, but there are other places you could make that argument (the Betsy Ross Bridge, for example) where they changed them to "New York" anyway (which, I suppose, suggests DRPA did get the memo? Or is the entirety of the interchange at the Betsy Ross Bridge under PennDOT jurisdiction?)

Here's the Betsy Ross Bridge signage, which arguably makes even less sense.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9928051,-75.0781829,3a,75y,329.35h,84.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbBb_E5CuL5Y8YKX_1QV02Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[jeffandnicole]

With the exits for 95 being the first thing you come to after crossing the bridges, it presents relatively unique situation where the normal control cities don't make much sense, as it would be much more direct to stay in Jersey to go North to Trenton/NYC.  In my years of commuting to Trenton, I've only crossed a bridge maybe 2 or 3 times going straight to Trenton, and maybe 10 times total to go someplace in PA first before continuing North. 

Honestly, the best control city would probably be Bensalem or something along those lines for 95 North from the Walt or Betsy Ross. 

[PHLBOS]

Good looking DRPA signage? What is this world coming to‽ They're Highway Gothic, too, which is nice. Has the DRPA ever actually used Clearview?

The Commodore Barry Bridge on the PA where they built the ramps to the soccer stadium. I believe that's their only dabbling in Clearview.

The signs for those ramps look to be more PennDOT spec than DRPA.  Such would make sense given that those signs are of the same vintage as the related signage along I-95. 

With the exits for 95 being the first thing you come to after crossing the bridges, it presents relatively unique situation where the normal control cities don't make much sense, as it would be much more direct to stay in Jersey to go North to Trenton/NYC.  In my years of commuting to Trenton, I've only crossed a bridge maybe 2 or 3 times going straight to Trenton, and maybe 10 times total to go someplace in PA first before continuing North. 

Honestly, the best control city would probably be Bensalem or something along those lines for 95 North from the Walt or Betsy Ross. 

With regards to the westbound signage just after the Walt Whitman Bridge toll plaza; maybe the DRPA should've taken a cue from the 2000-2001 vintage signs along I-95 northbound near the airport for through-traffic & the Platt Bridge (PA 291) and sign I-76 westbound for Valley Forge (or even a University City/Valley Forge pairing) & use Central Phila. (if Central Philadelphia causes signboard width issues) for I-95 northbound.   FWIW, the 90s-vintage PennDOT ramp signage for I-95 northbound just below the bridge at Front St. use Central Phila.

For westbound traffic coming off the Ben Franklin Bridge (I-676/US 30); one could use Northeast Philadelphia for I-95 northbound.  Most of the neighboring ramp signage along Columbus Blvd. already use such.

The original DRPA city-pair listing for I-95 northbound from the Betsy Ross Bridge was Bristol/Trenton.  IMHO, such should've remained regardless of the I-95 reroute further north.  Maybe using just Bristol or a Trenton/New York pairing would've been other logical options here.

The bottom line here is, just like signage in North Jersey when one gets close to the Metropolitan NYC area, that just blindly following MUTCD for control city listing in certain metro scenarios without applying logic & common sense is not sound practice IMHO.

Untitled by Eric Butler, on Flickr

The fore-mentioned control city issues (personally, I have no issue with still using Trenton for I-95 northbound at this location) along with general APL issues in general aside, my only gripe with the new signs is the smallish numerals for both the I-76 & I-95 shields.   In all fairness, the DPRA isn't the only offender of such here; but the larger numerals from the old signs were much more readable at a distance.