New Cape Cod Canal bridges

[Rothman]

^ Notably, my proposal would not require any changes to the Cape crossings other than the expected rebuild of the Sagamore Bridge. The new alignment would remain entirely on the mainland and tie in north of the existing MA 3/US 6 interchange.

Have you looked at the topography, bogs/wetlands, conservation areas, and existing development on the mainland side?  There's basically no way to build what you propose today.

I have looked at the area in satellite view, but not in depth. To me this connection is just so much more valuable than either of the individual bridge replacements (especially the Bourne) that it's at least worth considering its feasibility and potential impacts/effects on the bridge project(s).

Froggie's pointing out that you don't seem to have the expertise or experience with the area to do so.

Nor is that my job, nor did I claim to ... It just seems obvious that it should be part of both DOT and regional planning processes to consider a wide range of alternatives and their implications when undertaking a multi-billion dollar project.

You called it "my proposal."

[pderocco]

I would honestly just like to see MA 25 extended to meet MA 3 on the mainland side of the cape. I-495 could then be designated along said extension. Why this wasn't done decades ago is beyond my comprehension. For a such a short (~2.5 mile) extension, it would significantly improve connectivity/redundancy between the two bridges, and all the more so with the new Sagamore Bridge being built first.

I would even go so far as to say that, with a 6-lane Sagamore Bridge and a freeway connector from I-495 to MA 3, congestion issues approaching the bridges would be so improved that the replacing the Bourne Bridge would no longer be a pressing need. Even though it would still eventually be needed, it would be primarily because of the aging structure rather than capacity constraint issues. It's majorly underrated how much that lack of connectivity and resulting US 6/Sandwich Rd situation exacerbates the congestion issues.

That's a reasonable argument in light of the Sagamore Bridge being enlarged, but perhaps not in the past when it would have unbalanced the traffic between the two basically identical bridges.

Having driven to and from the Cape hundreds of times, including in summer weekend traffic, I always rather wished that Sandwich Rd had been fourlaned on Sandwich Rd on the Cape side between 28 and 6, which would have helped to keep the bridge traffic balanced. That road has an interesting history of being signed as various routes. In the MA official maps that I have, I see the following:

  2009,23 -- nothing
  1994 -- MA-6A
  1965,68,69,70,71,72,73,75,77,79,81,83,84 -- US-6 (yes, US-6 on both sides of the canal)
  1955,57,58,60,62,64 -- nothing
  1941,45,47,49,50 -- MA-3
  before that -- nothing

I remember seeing 6A and US-6 signs on it. There is a Sandwich Road Wikipedia page that says US-6 was signed WB on the mainland side and EB on Sandwich Rd, and the other directions were called US-6 Bypass, but I never noticed that at the time.

[jeffandnicole]

^ Notably, my proposal would not require any changes to the Cape crossings other than the expected rebuild of the Sagamore Bridge. The new alignment would remain entirely on the mainland and tie in north of the existing MA 3/US 6 interchange.

Have you looked at the topography, bogs/wetlands, conservation areas, and existing development on the mainland side?  There's basically no way to build what you propose today.

I have looked at the area in satellite view, but not in depth. To me this connection is just so much more valuable than either of the individual bridge replacements (especially the Bourne) that it's at least worth considering its feasibility and potential impacts/effects on the bridge project(s).

Froggie's pointing out that you don't seem to have the expertise or experience with the area to do so.

Nor is that my job, nor did I claim to ... It just seems obvious that it should be part of both DOT and regional planning processes to consider a wide range of alternatives and their implications when undertaking a multi-billion dollar project.

Who said they haven't looked at it as part of their planning processes? 

[webny99]

^ Maybe it has, but I doubt it considering it hasn't been mentioned in any official capacity here.

[DJStephens]

How come I-195 or I-495 do not extend over the bridge?

Design - the bridges were likely designed in the late twenties, and constructed in the early thirties.  As a kid, do remember viewing the dates, mounted on plaques in the super structure, of like 1933 or 1934.   Narrow lanes, may be ten feet in width.  Steep approaches.  No shoulders.   Sidewalks directly adjacent to the driving lanes, with a high curb.   In no way, shape or form, does the current bridges conform to Interstate standards.   The Model T, or "flivver" was in production until 1927, so the design was frankly for vehicles like them.   

[Rothman]

^ Maybe it has, but I doubt it considering it hasn't been mentioned in any official capacity here.

.

When you've read the project development docs, let us know.

[roadman65]

How come I-195 or I-495 do not extend over the bridge?

Design - the bridges were likely designed in the late twenties, and constructed in the early thirties.  As a kid, do remember viewing the dates, mounted on plaques in the super structure, of like 1933 or 1934.   Narrow lanes, may be ten feet in width.  Steep approaches.  No shoulders.   Sidewalks directly adjacent to the driving lanes, with a high curb.   In no way, shape or form, does the current bridges conform to Interstate standards.   The Model T, or "flivver" was in production until 1927, so the design was frankly for vehicles like them.   

Is MA 25 up to standards?

It seems odd that all of MA 25 did not become I-495 when I-495 got extended east of MA 24.

[The Ghostbuster]

They probably wanted Interstate 495 to end at another Interstate, which is does at Interstate 195. The remaining portion that is MA 25 probably did not warrant an Interstate designation.

[RobbieL2415]

How come I-195 or I-495 do not extend over the bridge?

Design - the bridges were likely designed in the late twenties, and constructed in the early thirties.  As a kid, do remember viewing the dates, mounted on plaques in the super structure, of like 1933 or 1934.   Narrow lanes, may be ten feet in width.  Steep approaches.  No shoulders.   Sidewalks directly adjacent to the driving lanes, with a high curb.   In no way, shape or form, does the current bridges conform to Interstate standards.   The Model T, or "flivver" was in production until 1927, so the design was frankly for vehicles like them.   

Is MA 25 up to standards?

Yes, by a country mile.

[SectorZ]

They probably wanted Interstate 495 to end at another Interstate, which is does at Interstate 195. The remaining portion that is MA 25 probably did not warrant an Interstate designation.

I-495 ended at I-195 before all of the MA 25 freeway was completed to the Bourne Bridge. While maintaining that choice is possible, they didn't deliberately end the designation early for that reason.

[DJStephens]

They probably wanted Interstate 495 to end at another Interstate, which is does at Interstate 195. The remaining portion that is MA 25 probably did not warrant an Interstate designation.

I-495 ended at I-195 before all of the MA 25 freeway was completed to the Bourne Bridge. While maintaining that choice is possible, they didn't deliberately end the designation early for that reason.

The MA 25 extension to the Bourne Bridge was tied up for literally decades.  It could and should have been done in the late fifties.   Traffic backups on US 6 in Wareham, and Buzzards Bay, leading E to the bridge were legendary.   A fix took decades, and what would have been relatively easy in the late fifties, meaning a probable clearance and overlay of US 6 with freeway, became a long process to go around.  This meant going through a cranberry bog/farm, litigation, and enviromental hoops to go through.   An additional problem was the generally anti road enviroment of both the Sargent and Dukakis Administrations, which sat in the Round House for close to 20 years.   

[Ted$8roadFan]

In fairness, MA-25 was completed on Dukakis's watch.

Cranberries are an iconic staple of Southeastern Mass. - the road MA-25  supplanted is named Cranberry Highway, after all - so it's no surprise that there was strong pushback at the time, as the road goes right an area replete with cranberry bogs. Notably, one particular landowner stood in the long legal fight that took years and essentially delayed completing MA-25 until 1987: her name was Hope Ingersoll of Grazing Fields Farm. It's the reason the highway bends around Wareham and Buzzards Bay.  More info here:

https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2017-10-02/how-grazing-fields-farm-changed-how-we-build-highways

[bob7374]

Agreement signed with more federal funding for construction of the new Cape Cod bridges:
https://www.mass.gov/news/healey-driscoll-administration-usace-fhwa-sign-agreement-to-move-forward-on-cape-cod-bridges-construction