Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[seicer]

I always thought they were novel and active until I walked up to see them a few years back. I hadn't realized they were closed off and just walked right in (the padlocks had long been cut). It smelled to high heaven of urine, and there was evidence of people sleeping there. The highway is looking a little long in the tooth so this should help alleviate some of the visual issues. I hope they can get around to rehabbing the pavement soon, too.

[sprjus4]

WV is an aging state demographically and I wonder how many seniors it would force off the roads. WV isn't like Ohio and many other states where one can often take the U.S. or former U.S. route that parallels the interstate without adding hours and hours to the trip. 70 is manageable for many seniors but 80 is pushing it.

"Things said about ending 55, then 65, but were dead wrong." ??

Actually, the only parts of the WV interstate system that should not be at least 80 are the mis-designed northern third of the Turnpike, a short urban section through Charleston and a yet shorter section through Wheeling.  Corridors, which most also need a large amount of stop light removal, could almost all go to 70 or 75.

The corridors were actually authorized for 70 mph previously, but was then removed because it wouldn’t be “practical” or “safe”. I haven’t driven a lot of the corridors, but I do remember US-19 between I-77 and I-79 last year, and most of the road could easily a posted speed limit of 70 mph, especially if some of the signals were removed.

As far as the 80 mph interstate speed limit… I do recall I-79 being a quite curvy route the last couple times I drove on it… many of the curves could not safely be taken above 70 or 75 mph in a large vehicle… I was maintaining 75-80 mph and a lot of the curves were decently sharp… I couldn’t see them making 80 mph the speed limit, unless they posted curve advisories for 65 or 70 mph every couple miles.

[hbelkins]

Corridors D (US 50), H (US 48), L (US 19) and that portion of Q (US 460) east of I-77, can easily be driven at 70 mph without issue. Most of Corridor G (US 119), not so much.

[1995hoo]

I took at look at the 80-mph bill and what I found interesting was its wording. The resolution the legislature passed a few years ago gave the state DOT the authority to post 75-mph speed limits but didn't require such. The bill now in committee seems to give the DOT less discretion, although surely there is some other provision that would allow for discretion to post lower limits where appropriate. The West Virginia Turnpike's twisty section comes to mind as one that should never be posted at 80 mph.

I also don't know how West Virginia defines "four-lane limited access highways" and whether roads like Corridor H qualify. I note that West Virginia road signs use the word "freeway" to refer to some divided highways with at-grade intersections and that's what prompts me to wonder.

WEST VIRGINIA LEGISLATURE

2023 REGULAR SESSION

Introduced

Senate Bill 34

By Senator Karnes

[Introduced January 11, 2023; referred to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure]

A BILL to amend and reenact §17C-6-2 of the Code of West Virginia, 1931, as amended, relating to the establishment of an 80 miles per hour speed limit on interstate highways and four-lane limited access highways in this state; and providing an exception for portions of those highways passing through city limits.

Be it enacted by the Legislature of West Virginia:
 
ARTICLE 6. SPEED RESTRICTIONS.
§17C-6-2. Establishment of state speed zones.

(a) Whenever the State Road Commissioner shall determine upon the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that any speed limit set forth in this article is greater or less than is reasonable or safe under the conditions found to exist at any intersection or other place or upon any part of a highway, said the commissioner may determine and declare a reasonable and safe speed limit thereat which shall be effective at all times or during hours of daylight or darkness or at such other times as may be determined when appropriate signs giving notice thereof are erected at such intersection or other place or part of the highway.

(b) Effective July 1, 2023, the commissioner shall establish a speed limit of 80 miles per hour on interstate highways and four-lane limited access highways in this state: Provided, That this increased speed limit does not apply to portions of interstate highways and four-lane limited access highways that pass through the city limits of municipalities.

(edited to add the second paragraph prior to the quoted bill)

[seicer]

Corridor routes and areas with strict access control would qualify as "four-lane limited access highways" in this bill. That would include all Corridor routes and a few specific other highways - such as US 250 south of Wheeling, WV 2 south of Weirton, WV 43, WV 9, US 33 east of Elkins, US 340, etc. I think we've debated freeways versus expressways here before, but West Virginia believes that some of its expressways are freeways even though they have at-grade intersections.

[sprjus4]

Those routes would technically be considered four lane limited access, given they are both four lanes wide (2 in each direction) and have a limited access right of way (no private driveways).

However, they would not technically be considered freeways (with full control of access), outside of what West Virginia may think.

If this bill passes, I imagine 80 mph would largely only be posted on I-64. The Turnpike and I-79 are too curvy to safely handle a higher legal limit (I’ve certainly hit 80 mph on I-79, but it’s definitely tight around a lot of corners). Maybe 75 mph could be permitted in some areas? I’m not sure about I-77 north of Charleston, it’s been many years since I’ve driven that portion.

I-64 west of Charleston and I-64 east of Beckley seem straight enough in most areas to legally permit 80 mph.

Didn’t the DOT specifically not post even 70 mph on the corridor highways? I could certainly never see them being 80 mph… Texas does not even post above 75 mph on non-freeways. I could reasonably see them going to 70 mph, but they seem pretty adamant on 65 mph.

[hbelkins]

Corridor routes and areas with strict access control would qualify as "four-lane limited access highways" in this bill. That would include all Corridor routes and a few specific other highways - such as US 250 south of Wheeling, WV 2 south of Weirton, WV 43, WV 9, US 33 east of Elkins, US 340, etc. I think we've debated freeways versus expressways here before, but West Virginia believes that some of its expressways are freeways even though they have at-grade intersections.

Also US 35.

There seems to be universal confusion over terms such as "controlled access" and "limited access." I remember seeing the terms "access fully controlled" and "access partially controlled" on West Virginia maps. Being from Kentucky, I'm more familiar with the term "limited access" and its meaning here, which is a full freeway with no at-grade intersections and all intersections being grade-separated interchanges. West Virginia uses "fully controlled" for freeways and "partially controlled" for the surface routes that have at-grade intersections and private access to the road is by permit only.

[GCrites80s]

I feel like I've seen those terms on signs as well in WV.

[seicer]

Design speeds also need to be taken into account. Many of the corridor routes are older, with some routes still sporting minimal left shoulders and curbed grassy medians, blind intersections, and too many intersections with traffic lights. There is a huge difference in design between the oldest Corridor G segments and those along Corridor H. Even relatively new segments of Corridor H are getting sullied with too many traffic lights, making 70-75 MPH speeds unrealistic.

[seicer]

Corridor routes and areas with strict access control would qualify as "four-lane limited access highways" in this bill. That would include all Corridor routes and a few specific other highways - such as US 250 south of Wheeling, WV 2 south of Weirton, WV 43, WV 9, US 33 east of Elkins, US 340, etc. I think we've debated freeways versus expressways here before, but West Virginia believes that some of its expressways are freeways even though they have at-grade intersections.

Also US 35.

I noticed that US 35 sports the same unique blue milemarkers that are used elsewhere on Corridor highways.

[Dirt Roads]

I also don't know how West Virginia defines "four-lane limited access highways" and whether roads like Corridor H qualify. I note that West Virginia road signs use the word "freeway" to refer to some divided highways with at-grade intersections and that's what prompts me to wonder.

Corridor routes and areas with strict access control would qualify as "four-lane limited access highways" in this bill. That would include all Corridor routes and a few specific other highways - such as US 250 south of Wheeling, WV 2 south of Weirton, WV 43, WV 9, US 33 east of Elkins, US 340, etc. I think we've debated freeways versus expressways here before, but West Virginia believes that some of its expressways are freeways even though they have at-grade intersections.

Also US 35.

There seems to be universal confusion over terms such as "controlled access" and "limited access." I remember seeing the terms "access fully controlled" and "access partially controlled" on West Virginia maps. Being from Kentucky, I'm more familiar with the term "limited access" and its meaning here, which is a full freeway with no at-grade intersections and all intersections being grade-separated interchanges. West Virginia uses "fully controlled" for freeways and "partially controlled" for the surface routes that have at-grade intersections and private access to the road is by permit only.

Historically, the WVDOH categorized the Appalachian Corridor highways as "Partially Limited Access" and they were shown on the "Official State Map" as such.  By 2007, the "Official State Map" showed them as "Access Partially Controlled" and that remains on the most recent version.  You'all are correct that there are some non-Appalachian Corridor highways included as "Access Partially Controlled", but for clarity here's what is shown on the most recent map (April 2022): 

• WV-114 (Greensbrier Street) from State Capitol (I-64) -to- Coonskin Road (access to Yeager Airport)
• US-60 from West Virginia Turnpike -to- Diamond
• WV-10 (Hal Greer Boulevard) from I-64 -to- Washington Boulevard (Huntington)
• US-340 from Charles Town -to- Bolivar
• US-33 from Ravenswood -to- I-77
• US-33 (Allegheny Highway, including the "Racetrack") from Elkins -to- Wymer
  
• US-52 (East Cumberland Road) from US-460 (Corridor Q) -to- I-77
• US-52 (Tolsia Highway) from Tabors Creek Road (south junction) -to- I-64
  
• WV-68 from US-50 across the Little Kanawha River to Third Street (Parkersburg)
• WV-10 from Logan -to- Huff Junction
• WV-2 (Energy Highway) from Moundsville -to- Captina Island
• US-219/US-33/US-250 (North Randolph Avenue) from Elkins -to- Corridor H
• WV-9 from East Martinsburg -to- Virginia State Line
• US-35 from Henderson -to- Scott Depot
• WV-121 (Coalfields Expressway) from Mullens -to- Crab Orchard
• US-19 (Chicory Road) crossing under the unopened section of King Coal Highway in Bluefield
• King Coal Highway from Red Jacket -to- WV-44

Plus, the collector/distributor lanes for the US-250 Freeway at I-470 are shown as "Partially Limited Access" on each side of the freeway.  Bizarre!

It's not shown this way, but the entirety of WV-279 should also qualify as "Partially Limited Access".  But there are some places south of I-79 that have very narrow mountable cement medians.

*I'm sure that I didn't get them all in the correct order, but I tried to get the oldest sections first.

[sprjus4]

Design speeds also need to be taken into account. Many of the corridor routes are older, with some routes still sporting minimal left shoulders and curbed grassy medians, blind intersections, and too many intersections with traffic lights. There is a huge difference in design between the oldest Corridor G segments and those along Corridor H. Even relatively new segments of Corridor H are getting sullied with too many traffic lights, making 70-75 MPH speeds unrealistic.

US-19 comes to mind as an example of a road that could easily handle 70 mph, particularly north of Summersville. It feels like a rural interstate highway in most areas.

[wriddle082]

I-77 north of Charleston does have a few questionable curves that may keep most of it from being raised any higher than 70.  Especially along the section where WV 2 is duplexed north of Ravenswood.  Also I think from just north of the I-79 split to around Pocatalico or Sissonville is also a little too curvy to go above 70.  But from Sissonville up through Ripley to Ravenswood is fairly straight and found be raised to at least 75.

[Ted$8roadFan]

More on the spread of the Washington, DC metro area into WV’s eastern panhandle:

https://ggwash.org/view/88769/is-west-virginia-ready-for-silver-line-growth

[Bitmapped]

If this bill passes, I imagine 80 mph would largely only be posted on I-64. The Turnpike and I-79 are too curvy to safely handle a higher legal limit (I’ve certainly hit 80 mph on I-79, but it’s definitely tight around a lot of corners). Maybe 75 mph could be permitted in some areas? I’m not sure about I-77 north of Charleston, it’s been many years since I’ve driven that portion.

The bill is dead. SB 34 was never even discussed in committee. Any legislator can introduce a bill on anything; most, like this one, never go anywhere.

[Troubleshooter]

I am looking for something I think I saw in West Virginia.

I know I was on I-64 heading east in the 1990s. In front of me was a cliff that seemed to wider than I could see and very tall. There was a gap in the cliff and I-64 went into the gap. There was a bridge way up there at the top of the cliff that overpassed the highway.

I can't find it on Google Maps. Where is it.

[Dirt Roads]

I am looking for something I think I saw in West Virginia.

I know I was on I-64 heading east in the 1990s. In front of me was a cliff that seemed to wider than I could see and very tall. There was a gap in the cliff and I-64 went into the gap. There was a bridge way up there at the top of the cliff that overpassed the highway.

I can't find it on Google Maps. Where is it.

Perhaps you are talking about this bridge over I-64 that was a big topic of conversation in the Highest Overpasses thread a few years ago.

This is located just east of the I-64 high bridge over Tank Branch near Glen Morgan, not all that far from the Turnpike.  This bridge is different from other overpasses along I-64, and it appears to have been constructed as a railroad bridge.  Indeed, it is located on a semi-private road that is built along an old railroad grade to access a property just north of the Interstate.  The rails were still there when this section of I-64 was being designed, but the railroad had been abandoned and removed prior to construction. 

Not sure why WVDOH didn't redesign the bridge with AASHTO-standard beams, but it is possible that the Chessie System (my former employer) mandated that railroad access from Glen Morgan to the old mines just south of the Interstate be maintained.  Anywhoosit, this bridge stands out as a "unicorn" in these parts.

Here's my descriptor post in the Highest Overpasses thread.  Quite frankly, this bridge doesn't look very tall to me (but I grew up watching the DOH build the New River Gorge Bridge).

Note: the link to the descriptor post in the Highest Overpasses thread has been corrected.

[Black-Man]

This is located just east of the I-64 high bridge over Tank Branch near Glen Morgan...

If the OG had just asked about the "Earl is Sexy" bridge, we would have all known where. And no... though I've probably passed the bridge 1000s of times, I do not know Earl and therefore cannot confirm the validity of this claim.

[seicer]

I am looking for something I think I saw in West Virginia.

I know I was on I-64 heading east in the 1990s. In front of me was a cliff that seemed to wider than I could see and very tall. There was a gap in the cliff and I-64 went into the gap. There was a bridge way up there at the top of the cliff that overpassed the highway.

I can't find it on Google Maps. Where is it.

Perhaps you are talking about this bridge over I-64 that was a big topic of conversation in the Highest Overpasses thread a few years ago.

This is located just east of the I-64 high bridge over Tank Branch near Glen Morgan, not all that far from the Turnpike.  This bridge is different from other overpasses along I-64, and it appears to have been constructed as a railroad bridge.  Indeed, it is located on a semi-private road that is built along an old railroad grade to access a property just north of the Interstate.  The rails were still there when this section of I-64 was being designed, but the railroad had been abandoned and removed prior to construction. 

Not sure why WVDOH didn't redesign the bridge with AASHTO-standard beams, but it is possible that the Chessie System (my former employer) mandated that railroad access from Glen Morgan to the old mines just south of the Interstate be maintained.  Anywhoosit, this bridge stands out as a "unicorn" in these parts.

Here's my descriptor post in the Highest Overpasses thread.  Quite frankly, this bridge doesn't look very tall to me (but I grew up watching the DOH build the New River Gorge Bridge).

I've never really looked at that bridge closely despite having passed under it hundreds of times. I'm not sure it was ever designed for railroad use because of the lightness of the steel girders. I checked USGS topos and can't find any line running up there, but did note that there was extensive strip mining on both sides at the time of the bridge's construction around 1986-88. It looks like it was to be an extension of Skyline Drive onto what is otherwise a landlocked piece of property.

[Dirt Roads]

I've never really looked at that bridge closely despite having passed under it hundreds of times. I'm not sure it was ever designed for railroad use because of the lightness of the steel girders. I checked USGS topos and can't find any line running up there, but did note that there was extensive strip mining on both sides at the time of the bridge's construction around 1986-88. It looks like it was to be an extension of Skyline Drive onto what is otherwise a landlocked piece of property.

I'll admit that many other members of this forum said the same thing and that I had to [a great deal of research] to defend my original statement that it was a repurposed railroad bridge (which was indeed wrong, as this piece of railroad was abandoned a few years before this section of I-64 was completed).  Many of the gory details (and my retractions and corrections, as well as the other interesting findings about this branch line) are in the Highest Overpasses thread in the pages leading up to this post. 

You mentioned Skyline Drive.  It and many of the other local roads here were once railroad spurs off this railroad line, all serving long abandoned coal mines.  The branch line itself included most of Mountain Edge Drive and a good chunk of Orchard Hill Road (leading down into Beaver).   Not all of it was C&O, but I don't remember all of the details.  This particular piece of railroad was originally the C&O Glade Creek and Raleigh Branch (later the Chessie System Glade Creek and Raleigh Subdivision).

The link to the Highest Overpasses thread has been corrected.

[Troubleshooter]

I am looking for something I think I saw in West Virginia.

I know I was on I-64 heading east in the 1990s. In front of me was a cliff that seemed to wider than I could see and very tall. There was a gap in the cliff and I-64 went into the gap. There was a bridge way up there at the top of the cliff that overpassed the highway.

I can't find it on Google Maps. Where is it.

Perhaps you are talking about this bridge over I-64 that was a big topic of conversation in the Highest Overpasses thread a few years ago.

This is located just east of the I-64 high bridge over Tank Branch near Glen Morgan, not all that far from the Turnpike.  This bridge is different from other overpasses along I-64, and it appears to have been constructed as a railroad bridge.  Indeed, it is located on a semi-private road that is built along an old railroad grade to access a property just north of the Interstate.  The rails were still there when this section of I-64 was being designed, but the railroad had been abandoned and removed prior to construction. 

Not sure why WVDOH didn't redesign the bridge with AASHTO-standard beams, but it is possible that the Chessie System (my former employer) mandated that railroad access from Glen Morgan to the old mines just south of the Interstate be maintained.  Anywhoosit, this bridge stands out as a "unicorn" in these parts.

Here's my descriptor post in the Highest Overpasses thread.  Quite frankly, this bridge doesn't look very tall to me (but I grew up watching the DOH build the New River Gorge Bridge).

Note: the link to the descriptor post in the Highest Overpasses thread has been corrected.

No. It was much higher than that. It was hundreds of feet up. I had to tip my head back to see it when I was close. The bridge was at least 10 times as high as its visible span was long.

There were no supports going down to the freeway. It was entirely supported by the cliff. The face of the cliff was nearly perpendicular to the highway and faced the opposite direction to my direction of travel. As the highway went through the cut, it went up to near the level of the top of the cliff.

The sidewalls of the cut were nearly vertical and I wondered if it was natural, formed by a stream or river flowing through it, as opposed to being made for the highway. The walls did not look new.

I don't know whether it was a road or railroad bridge, because it was so far up.

[Dirt Roads]

I am looking for something I think I saw in West Virginia.

I know I was on I-64 heading east in the 1990s. In front of me was a cliff that seemed to wider than I could see and very tall. There was a gap in the cliff and I-64 went into the gap. There was a bridge way up there at the top of the cliff that overpassed the highway.

I can't find it on Google Maps. Where is it.

Perhaps you are talking about this bridge over I-64 that was a big topic of conversation in the Highest Overpasses thread a few years ago.

No. It was much higher than that. It was hundreds of feet up. I had to tip my head back to see it when I was close. The bridge was at least 10 times as high as its visible span was long.

There were no supports going down to the freeway. It was entirely supported by the cliff. The face of the cliff was nearly perpendicular to the highway and faced the opposite direction to my direction of travel. As the highway went through the cut, it went up to near the level of the top of the cliff.

The sidewalls of the cut were nearly vertical and I wondered if it was natural, formed by a stream or river flowing through it, as opposed to being made for the highway. The walls did not look new.

I don't know whether it was a road or railroad bridge, because it was so far up.

There aren't any such bridges over "I-64 east" all the way to Lexington, Virginia.  The only other one on I-64 that compares to the one near Glen Morgan is this tall puppy carrying Pea Ridge Road over I-64 in East Huntington (which looks more impressive from the westbound lanes).  Or maybe you are remembering this wonder over the northbound lanes of the Turnpike just south of where I-64 splits off.  But neither of these are "hundreds of feet up".

[Troubleshooter]

I am looking for something I think I saw in West Virginia.

I know I was on I-64 heading east in the 1990s. In front of me was a cliff that seemed to wider than I could see and very tall. There was a gap in the cliff and I-64 went into the gap. There was a bridge way up there at the top of the cliff that overpassed the highway.

I can't find it on Google Maps. Where is it.

Perhaps you are talking about this bridge over I-64 that was a big topic of conversation in the Highest Overpasses thread a few years ago.

No. It was much higher than that. It was hundreds of feet up. I had to tip my head back to see it when I was close. The bridge was at least 10 times as high as its visible span was long.

There were no supports going down to the freeway. It was entirely supported by the cliff. The face of the cliff was nearly perpendicular to the highway and faced the opposite direction to my direction of travel. As the highway went through the cut, it went up to near the level of the top of the cliff.

The sidewalls of the cut were nearly vertical and I wondered if it was natural, formed by a stream or river flowing through it, as opposed to being made for the highway. The walls did not look new.

I don't know whether it was a road or railroad bridge, because it was so far up.

There aren't any such bridges over "I-64 east" all the way to Lexington, Virginia.  The only other one on I-64 that compares to the one near Glen Morgan is this tall puppy carrying Pea Ridge Road over I-64 in East Huntington (which looks more impressive from the westbound lanes).  Or maybe you are remembering this wonder over the northbound lanes of the Turnpike just south of where I-64 splits off.  But neither of these are "hundreds of feet up".

I remember the two high bridges at Huntington.

I remember seeing this going eastbound on trips on I-64 from Louisville KY to Norfolk VA. The first trip was in 1991 and the second trip was in 1995. I was never on I-77 south of Beckley (unless they moved the I-64 interchange). I do remember the north turnpike interchange south of Charleston was different on the second trip.

Both times, I returned by I-95 and I-70.

Maybe the feature was in Kentucky or Virginia, but I thought it was in WV. I used Google Maps street view on the entire route and didn't find it.

Two places I thought of when I started looking for this were crossing the Big Sandy and just east of the Beckley I-64 - I-77 junction.

Is it possible that that was an old RR bridge up there and it fell? But I can't even find the cliff. Did it fall too?

[Mapmikey]

I thought of this bridge when i first saw your post - https://goo.gl/maps/QEq8rhZZHTYfFw7X6

30 years later the cliffs could be covered in vegetation.

Your cliff description made think of Sideling Hill on I-68 but there's no bridge that fits your description.

Once you said I-70 I thought of this bridge outside Frederick MD - https://goo.gl/maps/ADuJs2ChSbVeHuP47

[hbelkins]

Didn't they rebuilt that Pea Ridge bridge when I-64 was widened?