Things non-roadgeeks get wrong about roads that bother you

[kphoger]

A big one for me is avoidance of freeways because they're slightly longer mileage.

The two default routes on my roughly 11-mile commute are (1) about 50% local roads, 50% freeway, and (2) about 70% local roads, 30% freeway. There's also a third route that's 15 miles, but only about 10% local roads, 10% expressway, and 80% freeway. Time-wise, it's basically a toss-up between all three routes, and I find the majority freeway route more relaxing since you can cruise at 65-70 mph most of the way instead of poking along underposted local roads and invariably ending up stuck behind someone going below my preferred speed and missing most of the lights. So oftentimes, especially in the afternoon, I'll take the majority freeway route. And yet, many people wouldn't even consider that route because it "seems" so much longer and because you have to backtrack to get to/from the freeway. To each their own, but I regard all three routes as perfectly good options even though one is a few miles longer.

Mine is the opposite:  avoidance of non-freeways even if they're shorter mileage.

For example, take a Wichita—Nashville trip.

Option #1:
I-35 → I-435 → I-470 → I-70 → I-64 → I-57 → I-24
748 miles / 10h 45m

Option #2:
US-400 → KS/MO-171 → MO-96 → I-49 → I-44 → US-60 → US-51 → KY-121 → KY-286 → US-62 → I-24
681 miles / 10h 45m

I would prefer Option #2, but most people would choose Option #1.

(I've actually done both routes, #1 eastbound and #2 westbound.  The only reason I chose #1 eastbound was to avoid US-62 and KY-286 because of winter weather.)

[1995hoo]

....

I don't say anything unless it cannot be avoided, but it bothers me when civilians use the term highway as a synonym for freeway in a way that suggests they think non-freeways cannot be highways.  "I-135 or US 77?  I'll take the highway."

Ehhh, that doesn't bother me at all because I think it's in the nature of a regionalism, much like the "expressway" versus "freeway" issue that annoys some people on this forum. I'm sure part of my view of that is because "freeway" is not a term we generally use in this part of the country unless it's part of a road's name (e.g., the Whitehurst Freeway in DC). I once saw one of those polls on regionalisms–you know, the sort of poll that asks whether you say "soda," "pop," or "Coke," whether you say "water fountain," "drinking fountain," or "bubbler," whether it's a "shopping cart" or a "buggy," etc.–and the poll asked something like, "What do you call the type of road with no traffic lights and no intersections where you go to drive faster than you can on other roads?" I think the choices were "highway," "freeway," "expressway," and maybe "turnpike" (or perhaps "something else" instead of "turnpike"). Around here, the term "highway" is definitely the term normally used for that sort of thing. Not just here, either; I recall in 1996 when Hurricane Fran did a number on North Carolina, one of my classmates was griping that "751 was blocked by downed trees, so I had to take the highway this morning" ("the highway" referring to US-15/501, which was and is what some people call a "freeway" from the area where she lived–near where South Square Mall used to be–up to, and beyond, the area where Duke is).

Now, with all that said, I find it somewhat annoying when people who are not from this area use out-of-area regionalisms to refer to roads around here and expect us to know what they mean. I once saw something where someone referred simply to "the Tollway." That's not a term we use here and it wasn't clear what he meant; it turned out he was referring to the Dulles Toll Road. Similarly, I saw someone referring to the "HP" being out on a given road. People asked what in the world he meant and it turned out he meant "Highway Patrol," which is also not a term we use.

[Max Rockatansky]

I usually opt for the surface highway if the drive time via a freeway is a near wash.  An example of this would be how I would usually take a series of US Routes (mostly US 27) between Brooksville and Key West versus the absolute bore that was I-75.

[Dirt Roads]

A big one for me is avoidance of freeways because they're slightly longer mileage.

The two default routes on my roughly 11-mile commute are (1) about 50% local roads, 50% freeway, and (2) about 70% local roads, 30% freeway. There's also a third route that's 15 miles, but only about 10% local roads, 10% expressway, and 80% freeway. Time-wise, it's basically a toss-up between all three routes, and I find the majority freeway route more relaxing since you can cruise at 65-70 mph most of the way instead of poking along underposted local roads and invariably ending up stuck behind someone going below my preferred speed and missing most of the lights. So oftentimes, especially in the afternoon, I'll take the majority freeway route. And yet, many people wouldn't even consider that route because it "seems" so much longer and because you have to backtrack to get to/from the freeway. To each their own, but I regard all three routes as perfectly good options even though one is a few miles longer.

Mine is the opposite:  avoidance of non-freeways even if they're shorter mileage.

For example, take a Wichita—Nashville trip.

Option #1:
I-35 → I-435 → I-470 → I-70 → I-64 → I-57 → I-24
748 miles / 10h 45m

Option #2:
US-400 → KS/MO-171 → MO-96 → I-49 → I-44 → US-60 → US-51 → KY-121 → KY-286 → US-62 → I-24
681 miles / 10h 45m

I would prefer Option #2, but most people would choose Option #1.

(I've actually done both routes, #1 eastbound and #2 westbound.  The only reason I chose #1 eastbound was to avoid US-62 and KY-286 because of winter weather.)

I understand why folks stick to the Interstates and other freeways nowadays with the higher speed limits.  But I could never understand this during the NMSL (National Minimum Speed Limit) days. 

[kphoger]

I've always had the idea that "freeway" was a California regionalism.  I think I only started using the term after getting into the online roadgeek community.

When I lived in the Chicago suburbs, I started referring to State Routes as "Route ##", US Routes as "Highway ##", and Interstates as "I ##", because that seemed to be the way people talked.  For example, I heard people refer to Ogden Avenue as "Highway 34" but the road to Morris as "Route 47".  Maybe that was just the result of a small sample size, but it's something I noticed and adopted into my own verbiage.  I still occasionally make that distinction even today.

[J N Winkler]

I've actually seen the "federal route" terminology on the title sheets of state DOT construction plans sets.

What?  Where?

I can see "federal-aid route" or "federal-aid eligible" or something along those lines, but "federal route"?  That's just weird.

I remember seeing it on the title sheet of at least one Georgia DOT plans set from the 1970's or early 1980's (probably long before Calrog was born).  Georgia is one of the states where every US route is a state route overlap, so I suspect it had to do with that.

I ran across this during the time of peak viatology, which is why I noticed it, but I said nothing so as to avoid pouring gasoline on the flames.

I don't say anything unless it cannot be avoided, but it bothers me when civilians use the term highway as a synonym for freeway in a way that suggests they think non-freeways cannot be highways.  "I-135 or US 77?  I'll take the highway."

Ehhh, that doesn't bother me at all because I think it's in the nature of a regionalism, much like the "expressway" versus "freeway" issue that annoys some people on this forum. I'm sure part of my view of that is because "freeway" is not a term we generally use in this part of the country unless it's part of a road's name (e.g., the Whitehurst Freeway in DC). I once saw one of those polls on regionalisms–you know, the sort of poll that asks whether you say "soda," "pop," or "Coke," whether you say "water fountain," "drinking fountain," or "bubbler," whether it's a "shopping cart" or a "buggy," etc.–and the poll asked something like, "What do you call the type of road with no traffic lights and no intersections where you go to drive faster than you can on other roads?" I think the choices were "highway," "freeway," "expressway," and maybe "turnpike" (or perhaps "something else" instead of "turnpike"). Around here, the term "highway" is definitely the term normally used for that sort of thing. Not just here, either; I recall in 1996 when Hurricane Fran did a number on North Carolina, one of my classmates was griping that "751 was blocked by downed trees, so I had to take the highway this morning" ("the highway" referring to US-15/501, which was and is what some people call a "freeway" from the area where she lived–near where South Square Mall used to be–up to, and beyond, the area where Duke is).

Yes--it's very much a regional usage.  I don't really object to others, such as urban freeways being described as "expressways" in areas where that has traditionally been part of their names, or "the [route number]" in reference to freeways in southern California.  I think what pushes on me is the (admittedly remote) possibility of blowback if I use the term highway in reference to roads that are not freeways and my interlocutors then think I did them an injury by pointing them to facilities of inferior standard.

Now, with all that said, I find it somewhat annoying when people who are not from this area use out-of-area regionalisms to refer to roads around here and expect us to know what they mean. I once saw something where someone referred simply to "the Tollway." That's not a term we use here and it wasn't clear what he meant; it turned out he was referring to the Dulles Toll Road. Similarly, I saw someone referring to the "HP" being out on a given road. People asked what in the world he meant and it turned out he meant "Highway Patrol," which is also not a term we use.

I've often wondered if the Highway Patrol/State Police divide has to do with whether a state police agency was originally founded specifically to patrol the state highway system.  This distinction would seem to hold for the Kansas Highway Patrol, Oklahoma Highway Patrol, Ohio State Highway Patrol (all founded during the Depression as motor patrol agencies), as well as the Massachusetts State Police (predecessor agency was founded 1865) and the Michigan State Police (founded 1917 to maintain internal order during World War I), with the Virginia State Police (originally a DMV constabulary) being somewhat of an exception.

[1995hoo]

....

Yes--it's very much a regional usage.  I don't really object to others, such as urban freeways being described as "expressways" in areas where that has traditionally been part of their names, or "the [route number]" in reference to freeways in southern California.  I think what pushes on me is the (admittedly remote) possibility of blowback if I use the term highway in reference to roads that are not freeways and my interlocutors then think I did them an injury by pointing them to facilities of inferior standard.

....

I can understand that. I once had to explain to someone that a state statute that used the word "highway" was not referring to Interstates or even to major routes like US-29 between DC and Charlottesville, but to roads generally.


Edited to add: I realized where that discussion was and a search found it. The first link is to the first post in the thread, the second link is to where someone misunderstood what "highway" meant, and the third link is to my response to him on that issue. The discussion had to do with whether you're obligated to stop for a school bus when you're on a street with a median but the school bus stop is located at an intersection.

https://virginia.sportswar.com/mid/11957344/board/general/

https://virginia.sportswar.com/mid/11958342/board/general/

https://virginia.sportswar.com/mid/11958800/board/general/

[formulanone]

Calling interstates and US routes "state routes".

They are state highways.  They just aren't "state routes".  Think about that.  Now who's not being sensible?

They're state *maintained*. Still not a state route.

And state owned and operated.

Who owns it?

The States own and operate the Interstate highways.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/faq.cfm

...again, this is why the public at large doesn't really care about the precise terminology and classification. To them, it's just "the government" who slaps down gray pavement, puts up signs, and lighting. The locals in the area are going to call it what it is, but terms are effectively interchangeable.

To the public, it only really matters when they:
[1] have a complaint (missing sign, traffic light, pothole, repaving et al) for a specific agency
[2] need it plowed
[3] driving in a place where there's nearby route number duplication

The rest is just details not worth arguing about unless you have a lot of time together trapped in an elevator.

[webny99]

A big one for me is avoidance of freeways because they're slightly longer mileage.

Mine is the opposite:  avoidance of non-freeways even if they're shorter mileage.

For example, take a Wichita—Nashville trip.

...

I can see that as well, and I think it's probably the trip length that makes the difference.

On shorter trips, people tend to gravitate towards the shorter, more local routes, since that's what they're comfortable with and going "out of the way" seems like a bigger deal than it actually is. On longer trips, people tend to gravitate towards the all-freeway routes, since that's what they're comfortable with and taking "shortcuts" seems less predictable, more prone to slowdowns, and increases the likelihood of getting lost. In both cases, the basis for that decision-making is all about perception, and one's perceptions tend to be very different for a daily commute than they do for a full-on road trip.

[webny99]

To weigh in on the "highway" debate, I would ask: is this (a generic county route in rural North Dakota) a "highway"?
My family that grew up in the area would say Yes. I would say No.

A "highway" is generically defined as "a main road, especially one connecting major towns or cities". So to me, it's just a matter of perception. As someone who grew up in a NY suburb of about 35k in a county of 750k, my idea of "major towns and cities" is very different from that of someone who grew up in a "city" of 500 in a county of 7000 (in an entire state that only just surpassed 750k in the most recent census).

I think what pushes on me is the (admittedly remote) possibility of blowback if I use the term highway in reference to roads that are not freeways and my interlocutors then think I did them an injury by pointing them to facilities of inferior standard.

As I've just described above, I've had this come up firsthand in the context of whether or not something counts as a "highway". I don't necessarily take issue with a two-lane road being called a highway, but for most county routes, I would consider "highway" at least slightly misleading unless given additional context. To me, most county routes -- and indeed many state routes -- are more effectively described as "backroads". But again, it's all about perception, since for some people, especially in rural, remote areas, what I'd call "backroads" are their highways - their connection to other towns and cities. 

[triplemultiplex]

Being 100% reliant on the GPS screen, even when it doesn't make sense.

Seconded.
What's more, the inability to navigate the city one has lived in for years without the damn GPS.  Like seriously?  You need the GPS to tell you how to get to the airport you've been to 10 times this year? WTF?

[vdeane]

To weigh in on the "highway" debate, I would ask: is this (a generic county route in rural North Dakota) a "highway"?
My family that grew up in the area would say Yes. I would say No.

It would have been called one when my Driver's Ed class did our "highway driving" lesson.

[thspfc]

To weigh in on the "highway" debate, I would ask: is this (a generic county route in rural North Dakota) a "highway"?
My family that grew up in the area would say Yes. I would say No.

It would have been called one when my Driver's Ed class did our "highway driving" lesson.

I'd consider it just a road. For county routes my general rule is that if it looks like it could be a state highway then it's a highway. That one does not.

[US 89]

To weigh in on the "highway" debate, I would ask: is this (a generic county route in rural North Dakota) a "highway"?
My family that grew up in the area would say Yes. I would say No.

It would have been called one when my Driver's Ed class did our "highway driving" lesson.

I'd consider it just a road. For county routes my general rule is that if it looks like it could be a state highway then it's a highway. That one does not.

I've seen plenty of state highways that look worse than that.

[kphoger]

It would have been called one when my Driver's Ed class did our "highway driving" lesson.

When my drivers ed class did the "highway driving" lesson, we drove 31 miles to I-70 in Colby, drove 8 miles to the next exit, and then took US-24 back to town.

[thspfc]

It would have been called one when my Driver's Ed class did our "highway driving" lesson.

When my drivers ed class did the "highway driving" lesson, we drove 31 miles to I-70 in Colby, drove 8 miles to the next exit, and then took US-24 back to town.

To be fair, those are highways.

[I-55]

I'm interning with City of Fort Wayne this summer. If I had a dollar for every time someone asked if we have plans for Lima Rd (SR 3) or I-69 I would be able to take a paid day off. Just because the road is in city limits doesn't mean we maintain it. Sure we call it different names but it's still a state maintained route, so we have little at all to do with them (this also applies to city vs county roads).

[KCRoadFan]

It bothers me whenever people say that toll roads can't be freeways - the "free"  refers to "free flow of traffic"  (i.e. limited access) rather than "free of charge" .

Also, those who say that interstates entirely within one state (e.g. I-16 in Georgia or I-45 in Texas) aren't actually interstates - again, the word "interstate"  refers to a classification of highway, not the path that highway actually travels.

[Flint1979]

In Michigan all the state highways are called M-(whatever the number is) so on Google Maps M-46 in the Saginaw area for some reason gets called State Route 46 and everything else gets called Michigan instead of State Route and I'm thinking you stupid idiot it's M-46 we don't call it State Route.

[kphoger]

It would have been called one when my Driver's Ed class did our "highway driving" lesson.

When my drivers ed class did the "highway driving" lesson, we drove 31 miles to I-70 in Colby, drove 8 miles to the next exit, and then took US-24 back to town.

To be fair, those are highways.

To be fair, so was the 30 miles of K-25 we used to get to Colby.

[bwana39]

A big one for me is avoidance of freeways because they're slightly longer mileage.

The two default routes on my roughly 11-mile commute are (1) about 50% local roads, 50% freeway, and (2) about 70% local roads, 30% freeway. There's also a third route that's 15 miles, but only about 10% local roads, 10% expressway, and 80% freeway. Time-wise, it's basically a toss-up between all three routes, and I find the majority freeway route more relaxing since you can cruise at 65-70 mph most of the way instead of poking along underposted local roads and invariably ending up stuck behind someone going below my preferred speed and missing most of the lights. So oftentimes, especially in the afternoon, I'll take the majority freeway route. And yet, many people wouldn't even consider that route because it "seems" so much longer and because you have to backtrack to get to/from the freeway. To each their own, but I regard all three routes as perfectly good options even though one is a few miles longer.

If I can get to the same place in the same time, I will bypass the freeway EVERY time.

[bwana39]

I understand why folks stick to the Interstates and other freeways nowadays with the higher speed limits.  But I could never understand this during the NMSL (National Minimum Speed Limit) days.

Minimum LMAO

[bwana39]

To weigh in on the "highway" debate, I would ask: is this (a generic county route in rural North Dakota) a "highway"?
My family that grew up in the area would say Yes. I would say No.

A "highway" is generically defined as "a main road, especially one connecting major towns or cities". So to me, it's just a matter of perception. As someone who grew up in a NY suburb of about 35k in a county of 750k, my idea of "major towns and cities" is very different from that of someone who grew up in a "city" of 500 in a county of 7000 (in an entire state that only just surpassed 750k in the most recent census).

I think what pushes on me is the (admittedly remote) possibility of blowback if I use the term highway in reference to roads that are not freeways and my interlocutors then think I did them an injury by pointing them to facilities of inferior standard.

As I've just described above, I've had this come up firsthand in the context of whether or not something counts as a "highway". I don't necessarily take issue with a two-lane road being called a highway, but for most county routes, I would consider "highway" at least slightly misleading unless given additional context. To me, most county routes -- and indeed many state routes -- are more effectively described as "backroads". But again, it's all about perception, since for some people, especially in rural, remote areas, what I'd call "backroads" are their highways - their connection to other towns and cities.

I had an in-law of a relative talk about the HIGHWAY near his house. Describe FM-196 as "the highway" and SH-37 (two lanes) as the "Big Highway".

I guess US-271 (still two lanes) would have been the "REALLY BIG HIGHWAY"

For us if it has painted stripes, it probably would be called highway IF it is outside of town. In town everything that isn't freeway is "street. "

[ethanhopkin14]

I've actually seen the "federal route" terminology on the title sheets of state DOT construction plans sets.

What?  Where?

I can see "federal-aid route" or "federal-aid eligible" or something along those lines, but "federal route"?  That's just weird.

I remember seeing it on the title sheet of at least one Georgia DOT plans set from the 1970's or early 1980's (probably long before Calrog was born).  Georgia is one of the states where every US route is a state route overlap, so I suspect it had to do with that.

I ran across this during the time of peak viatology, which is why I noticed it, but I said nothing so as to avoid pouring gasoline on the flames.

I don't say anything unless it cannot be avoided, but it bothers me when civilians use the term highway as a synonym for freeway in a way that suggests they think non-freeways cannot be highways.  "I-135 or US 77?  I'll take the highway."

Ehhh, that doesn't bother me at all because I think it's in the nature of a regionalism, much like the "expressway" versus "freeway" issue that annoys some people on this forum. I'm sure part of my view of that is because "freeway" is not a term we generally use in this part of the country unless it's part of a road's name (e.g., the Whitehurst Freeway in DC). I once saw one of those polls on regionalisms–you know, the sort of poll that asks whether you say "soda," "pop," or "Coke," whether you say "water fountain," "drinking fountain," or "bubbler," whether it's a "shopping cart" or a "buggy," etc.–and the poll asked something like, "What do you call the type of road with no traffic lights and no intersections where you go to drive faster than you can on other roads?" I think the choices were "highway," "freeway," "expressway," and maybe "turnpike" (or perhaps "something else" instead of "turnpike"). Around here, the term "highway" is definitely the term normally used for that sort of thing. Not just here, either; I recall in 1996 when Hurricane Fran did a number on North Carolina, one of my classmates was griping that "751 was blocked by downed trees, so I had to take the highway this morning" ("the highway" referring to US-15/501, which was and is what some people call a "freeway" from the area where she lived–near where South Square Mall used to be–up to, and beyond, the area where Duke is).

Yes--it's very much a regional usage.  I don't really object to others, such as urban freeways being described as "expressways" in areas where that has traditionally been part of their names, or "the [route number]" in reference to freeways in southern California.  I think what pushes on me is the (admittedly remote) possibility of blowback if I use the term highway in reference to roads that are not freeways and my interlocutors then think I did them an injury by pointing them to facilities of inferior standard.

Now, with all that said, I find it somewhat annoying when people who are not from this area use out-of-area regionalisms to refer to roads around here and expect us to know what they mean. I once saw something where someone referred simply to "the Tollway." That's not a term we use here and it wasn't clear what he meant; it turned out he was referring to the Dulles Toll Road. Similarly, I saw someone referring to the "HP" being out on a given road. People asked what in the world he meant and it turned out he meant "Highway Patrol," which is also not a term we use.

I've often wondered if the Highway Patrol/State Police divide has to do with whether a state police agency was originally founded specifically to patrol the state highway system.  This distinction would seem to hold for the Kansas Highway Patrol, Oklahoma Highway Patrol, Ohio State Highway Patrol (all founded during the Depression as motor patrol agencies), as well as the Massachusetts State Police (predecessor agency was founded 1865) and the Michigan State Police (founded 1917 to maintain internal order during World War I), with the Virginia State Police (originally a DMV constabulary) being somewhat of an exception.

To throw in one more wrinkle, in Texas it is the State Troopers (I am sure the term is not exclusive to Texas). 

[ethanhopkin14]

I also hate it when people use interstate in place of a US highway or for a any type of freeway.  I have actually heard it multiple times.  US-59 (pre I-69 days) was I-59 in Houston despite the real I-59 terminating a state over. Just this past year I was at a field visit north of Amarillo for a site for work and one of the people running the meeting crested the hill of the project where you could see US-87/287 in the distance said" see, look, there is the interstate" despite the fact he called it US-87 not five minutes earlier. 


I have had arguments with my dad about I-37 in Texas.  He says since it doesn't leave Texas, it shouldn't be called interstate and I say its a classifications describing the system.  That is never good enough. 


To the regional terminology thing (expressway vs. freeway) I never knew until about ten years ago that an expressway had traffic lights and at grade intersections on it.  All the expressways I knew my whole life were freeways and even some being interstate highways so they never were anything less than a freeway.  Central Expressway in Dallas, MoPac Expressway in Austin and Pan Am Expressway in San Antonio were the only expressways I knew for the longest time and they all were full freeways (I know Central Expressway has a surface street section south of I-345, but no one has ever cared about that stretch; when you say Central Expressway you are talking about the part from Woodall Rodgers to the Oklahoma State Line.)