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US Route 66 (myth versus reality)

Started by Max Rockatansky, September 16, 2022, 04:55:49 PM

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Max Rockatansky

I think that it is safe to say that outside the road community the most well-known highway for most normal people is former US Route 66.  That being the case there has been some non-road community myths which have taken hold regarding the highway.  I think a lot of it is self-perpetuating mythos building upon itself in popular culture intermixed with the bulk of serious research pertaining to US Route 66 coming decades ago when things like the AASHTO database weren't available. 

I know in my case there has been several US Route 66 related myths as of late which I'm come into direct conflict via recent activity on Gribblenation.  To that end I've found that for many the myths about US Route 66 are more important than the realities.  I've also found there to be resistance to acceptance to new research and information regarding US Route 66, no matter how overt/obvious it is.  That being the case I think it would be interesting to see how many myths pertaining to US Route 66 compared to with the actual realities can be complied.

Some of the myths and realities pertaining to US Route 66 I can think of off the top of my head include:

Myth:  US Route 66 ended at 7th and Broadway in Los Angeles.
Reality:  US Route 66 wasn't signed in Los Angeles until December 1930 and never went to 7th and Broadway.  The city of Los Angeles prioritized signage of US Route 99 and US Route 101 given the western terminus of US Route 66 was debated for the first couple years of the US Route System.  When US Route 66 was signed in Los Angeles during December 1930 it was signed through the city onwards to Ocean Avenue via Santa Monica Boulevard in Santa Monica via an unauthorized extension.  Once the AASHO caught wind they twisted the arm of the Division of Highways who in turn had the ACSC truncate US Route 66 signage to Los Angeles at US Route 99/San Fernando Road via Fletcher.  I think the 7th and Broadway terminus comes from the assumption US Route 66 was intended to be a simple one-for-one overlay of the National Old Trails Road.  The National Old Trails Road did end at 7th and Broadway in downtown Los Angeles upon being extended during 1914. 

Myth:  US Route 66 was extended to Santa Monica by the AASHO during 1939.
Reality:  It was extended during 1935, I have no idea what the sign at 7th and Broadway is referencing with 1939.

Myth:  US Route 66 ended at Santa Monica Pier.
Reality:  It never ended at Santa Monica Pier.  As noted above signage of US Route 66 was extended to Ocean Avenue and Santa Monica Boulevard without AASHO approval during December 1930.  When US Route 66 was officially extended to Santa Monica during 1935 it ended at Olympic Boulevard (US Route 101A) via Lincoln Boulevard.

Myth:  The Grapes of Wrath is mainly about US Route 66.
Reality:  Sort of, for whatever reason the book doesn't mention US Route 466 over Tehachapi Pass.  I always wondered if Steinbeck just considered all the X66 routes to be part of US Route 66? 

Myth:  US Route 66 was the most important US Route out west.
Reality:  This definitely isn't true.  In California US Route 66 wouldn't have even been in the top five of most important US Routes.  US Route 80 was by far more important US Route in Arizona. 

Myth:  US Route 66 started on Adams Street at Michigan Avenue in Chicago, there is even a Historic US Route 66 BEGIN sign assembly.
Reality:  US Route 66 originally began at Jackson Street at Michigan Avenue (then US Route 41).  When Lake Shore Drive was partially completed, it became part of US Route 41 and US Route 66 was extended via Jackson Drive to meet.  The one-way couplets on Jackson/Adams came after Lake Shore Drive opened during 1955 which means Adams Street was never the start of US Route 66.  It would be more accurate to have the US Route 66 BEGIN sign assembly at Lake Shore Drive/Jackson Drive.

Myth:  No Interstate segment was part of US Route 66.
Reality:  Not true and easily verified by a quick scan of the AASHTO Database.  Many current segments of Interstate first opened as part of US Route 66, and it definitely had plenty of limited access grades towards the demise of the highway.  While there are many examples of this one of my favorites was the co-signage of US Route 66 on Interstate 40 east of Barstow until the freeway was completed between Ludlow-Fenner in the Bristol Mountains during 1972.


Brandon

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 16, 2022, 04:55:49 PM
Myth:  No Interstate segment was part of US Route 66.
Reality:  Not true and easily verified by a quick scan of the AASHTO Database.  Many current segments of Interstate first opened as part of US Route 66, and it definitely had plenty of limited access grades towards the demise of the highway.  While there are many examples of this one of my favorites was the co-signage of US Route 66 on Interstate 40 east of Barstow until the freeway was completed between Ludlow-Fenner in the Bristol Mountains during 1972.

To further elaborate on that, the section of I-55 from Gardner (IL-53, Exit 127) to Welco (I-355, Exit 269) was built as a freeway for US-66 in 1956 as a bypass of Braidwood/Wilmington, Plainfield, and Joliet.  I-55 was later added to that freeway and both were cosigned for a bit, at least until Illinois got rid of US-66.

As for importance, one of the states where US-66 was important was actually Illinois as the route between St Louis and Chicago.  I would suspect that US-66 was more important in Illinois than in any state to the west due to this (except maybe Oklahoma).
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

SkyPesos

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 16, 2022, 04:55:49 PM
Myth:  US Route 66 was the most important US Route out west.
Reality:  This definitely isn't true.  In California US Route 66 wouldn't have even been in the top five of most important US Routes.  US Route 80 was by far more important US Route in Arizona. 
Guess this is what happens when a route makes it into pop culture. I never thought it being more important than some north-south routes that cover more of the west than the southwest desert. US 99 and 101 comes to mind for CA. Even US 40 seem more important to me as a whole west of the US 81 line.

Quillz

QuoteWhen US Route 66 was officially extended to Santa Monica during 1935 it ended at Olympic Boulevard (US Route 101A) via Lincoln Boulevard.
Yup, there's a diner right there that proclaims to be the "ending point" of US-66. Which is a nice touch, because US routes did technically start in the east and end in the west. But modern interstates and mileage markers probably make most people think it's the opposite. Nowadays, this intersection is CA-1/CA-2/I-10, although it seems neither state route is signed within Santa Monica (the damn relinquishment).

kphoger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 16, 2022, 04:55:49 PM
Myth:  US Route 66 was extended to Santa Monica by the AASHO during 1939.
Reality:  It was extended during 1935, I have no idea what the sign at 7th and Broadway is referencing with 1939.

I'm curious to know more about this sign...?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kphoger on September 17, 2022, 10:49:34 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 16, 2022, 04:55:49 PM
Myth:  US Route 66 was extended to Santa Monica by the AASHO during 1939.
Reality:  It was extended during 1935, I have no idea what the sign at 7th and Broadway is referencing with 1939.

I'm curious to know more about this sign...?

Here you go:

https://flic.kr/p/2g3hXRQ

Avalanchez71

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 16, 2022, 04:55:49 PM
I think that it is safe to say that outside the road community the most well-known highway for most normal people is former US Route 66.  That being the case there has been some non-road community myths which have taken hold regarding the highway.  I think a lot of it is self-perpetuating mythos building upon itself in popular culture intermixed with the bulk of serious research pertaining to US Route 66 coming decades ago when things like the AASHTO database weren't available. 

I know in my case there has been several US Route 66 related myths as of late which I'm come into direct conflict via recent activity on Gribblenation.  To that end I've found that for many the myths about US Route 66 are more important than the realities.  I've also found there to be resistance to acceptance to new research and information regarding US Route 66, no matter how overt/obvious it is.  That being the case I think it would be interesting to see how many myths pertaining to US Route 66 compared to with the actual realities can be complied.

Some of the myths and realities pertaining to US Route 66 I can think of off the top of my head include:

Myth:  US Route 66 ended at 7th and Broadway in Los Angeles.
Reality:  US Route 66 wasn't signed in Los Angeles until December 1930 and never went to 7th and Broadway.  The city of Los Angeles prioritized signage of US Route 99 and US Route 101 given the western terminus of US Route 66 was debated for the first couple years of the US Route System.  When US Route 66 was signed in Los Angeles during December 1930 it was signed through the city onwards to Ocean Avenue via Santa Monica Boulevard in Santa Monica via an unauthorized extension.  Once the AASHO caught wind they twisted the arm of the Division of Highways who in turn had the ACSC truncate US Route 66 signage to Los Angeles at US Route 99/San Fernando Road via Fletcher.  I think the 7th and Broadway terminus comes from the assumption US Route 66 was intended to be a simple one-for-one overlay of the National Old Trails Road.  The National Old Trails Road did end at 7th and Broadway in downtown Los Angeles upon being extended during 1914. 

Myth:  US Route 66 was extended to Santa Monica by the AASHO during 1939.
Reality:  It was extended during 1935, I have no idea what the sign at 7th and Broadway is referencing with 1939.

Myth:  US Route 66 ended at Santa Monica Pier.
Reality:  It never ended at Santa Monica Pier.  As noted above signage of US Route 66 was extended to Ocean Avenue and Santa Monica Boulevard without AASHO approval during December 1930.  When US Route 66 was officially extended to Santa Monica during 1935 it ended at Olympic Boulevard (US Route 101A) via Lincoln Boulevard.

Myth:  The Grapes of Wrath is mainly about US Route 66.
Reality:  Sort of, for whatever reason the book doesn't mention US Route 466 over Tehachapi Pass.  I always wondered if Steinbeck just considered all the X66 routes to be part of US Route 66? 

Myth:  US Route 66 was the most important US Route out west.
Reality:  This definitely isn't true.  In California US Route 66 wouldn't have even been in the top five of most important US Routes.  US Route 80 was by far more important US Route in Arizona. 

Myth:  US Route 66 started on Adams Street at Michigan Avenue in Chicago, there is even a Historic US Route 66 BEGIN sign assembly.
Reality:  US Route 66 originally began at Jackson Street at Michigan Avenue (then US Route 41).  When Lake Shore Drive was partially completed, it became part of US Route 41 and US Route 66 was extended via Jackson Drive to meet.  The one-way couplets on Jackson/Adams came after Lake Shore Drive opened during 1955 which means Adams Street was never the start of US Route 66.  It would be more accurate to have the US Route 66 BEGIN sign assembly at Lake Shore Drive/Jackson Drive.

Myth:  No Interstate segment was part of US Route 66.
Reality:  Not true and easily verified by a quick scan of the AASHTO Database.  Many current segments of Interstate first opened as part of US Route 66, and it definitely had plenty of limited access grades towards the demise of the highway.  While there are many examples of this one of my favorites was the co-signage of US Route 66 on Interstate 40 east of Barstow until the freeway was completed between Ludlow-Fenner in the Bristol Mountains during 1972.

Who is saying that no portion of US 66 was an Interstate segment?

Max Rockatansky

Lots of people.  In particular many members of the Freeways of Los Angeles Facebook Group last night, which got my mind going on creating this thread. 

Dirt Roads

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 17, 2022, 10:12:16 PM
Lots of people.  In particular many members of the Freeways of Los Angeles Facebook Group last night, which got my mind going on creating this thread.

It would be fair to say that some people (both older and younger) have adopted a view of I-40 as the evil stepchild that bypassed the Mother Road through the Painted Desert.  But even in Arizona, there are plenty of places where I-40 is on the Mother Road alignment (and some where the "Mother Road" appears to be a frontage road).  We get these same type of myths in railroading.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 17, 2022, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 17, 2022, 10:12:16 PM
Lots of people.  In particular many members of the Freeways of Los Angeles Facebook Group last night, which got my mind going on creating this thread.

It would be fair to say that some people (both older and younger) have adopted a view of I-40 as the evil stepchild that bypassed the Mother Road through the Painted Desert.  But even in Arizona, there are plenty of places where I-40 is on the Mother Road alignment (and some where the "Mother Road" appears to be a frontage road).  We get these same type of myths in railroading.

It often goes further than that.  A lot of the late alignments of US 66 were actually concurrent with I-40.  That being the case, there are examples where an alignment of I-40 would also be a legit generational alignment of US 66.  To me denying that stuff like that was a thing was thing is selling the life and service history of 66 short. 

Pertaining to Arizona, at least much of the US 66 fandom in-state does acknowledge the inherited NOTR segments and when they were bypassed largely during the 1930s.  There is at least a more accurate community account as to when that transition occurred, and the alignments modernized from the NOTR (excepting Oatman Highway which was never part of the NOTR).

Avalanchez71

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 17, 2022, 11:16:27 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 17, 2022, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 17, 2022, 10:12:16 PM
Lots of people.  In particular many members of the Freeways of Los Angeles Facebook Group last night, which got my mind going on creating this thread.

It would be fair to say that some people (both older and younger) have adopted a view of I-40 as the evil stepchild that bypassed the Mother Road through the Painted Desert.  But even in Arizona, there are plenty of places where I-40 is on the Mother Road alignment (and some where the "Mother Road" appears to be a frontage road).  We get these same type of myths in railroading.

It often goes further than that.  A lot of the late alignments of US 66 were actually concurrent with I-40.  That being the case, there are examples where an alignment of I-40 would also be a legit generational alignment of US 66.  To me denying that stuff like that was a thing was thing is selling the life and service history of 66 short. 

Pertaining to Arizona, at least much of the US 66 fandom in-state does acknowledge the inherited NOTR segments and when they were bypassed largely during the 1930s.  There is at least a more accurate community account as to when that transition occurred, and the alignments modernized from the NOTR (excepting Oatman Highway which was never part of the NOTR).

The frontage roads are often not the same pavement as the original highway.  On occasion the frontage road will be the original pavement but not always.  Not only that when the highway has to make a curve to accommodate lets say I-40 that curve is usually not indicative of US 66.  I-40 itself would be indicative of the original pavement.

NWI_Irish96

My mother, along with her brother, two sisters, and parents, drove round trip from Elkhart, IN; to Los Angeles in 1961. She claims that they followed Route 66 from end to end, though I have my doubts that they added the extra time to venture all the way to downtown Chicago rather than picking up Route 66 somewhere around Joliet.

Of all the small towns that route went through, the one my mom would never stop talking about was Oatman, Arizona.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Rothman



Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on September 18, 2022, 07:32:42 PM
My mother, along with her brother, two sisters, and parents, drove round trip from Elkhart, IN; to Los Angeles in 1961. She claims that they followed Route 66 from end to end, though I have my doubts that they added the extra time to venture all the way to downtown Chicago rather than picking up Route 66 somewhere around Joliet.

Of all the small towns that route went through, the one my mom would never stop talking about was Oatman, Arizona.

Non-Roadgeeks tend to speak more loosely about taking routes end to end and consider Joliet to LA close enough.

Then again, us roadgeeks argue amongst ourselves about what clinching a route actually entails.  Life is so much simpler for non-geeks...and inaccurate.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Rothman on September 18, 2022, 07:49:03 PM


Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on September 18, 2022, 07:32:42 PM
My mother, along with her brother, two sisters, and parents, drove round trip from Elkhart, IN; to Los Angeles in 1961. She claims that they followed Route 66 from end to end, though I have my doubts that they added the extra time to venture all the way to downtown Chicago rather than picking up Route 66 somewhere around Joliet.

Of all the small towns that route went through, the one my mom would never stop talking about was Oatman, Arizona.

Non-Roadgeeks tend to speak more loosely about taking routes end to end and consider Joliet to LA close enough.

Then again, us roadgeeks argue amongst ourselves about what clinching a route actually entails.  Life is so much simpler for non-geeks...and inaccurate.

Heh, if it was 1961 then there was a diversion from 66 as it was at the time given Oatman was on the menu.  66 moved down to Yucca and bypassed Oatman circa 1952.

pderocco

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: pderocco on September 18, 2022, 11:33:51 PM
When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

And when legend gets rebuked by traceable facts?

https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/06/the-arroyo-seco-parkway-and-early.html?m=1

In the case of above, the western terminus of US 66 is truly a case of fact being stranger of fiction. 

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 16, 2022, 04:55:49 PM
Myth:  The Grapes of Wrath is mainly about US Route 66.
Reality:  Sort of, for whatever reason the book doesn't mention US Route 466 over Tehachapi Pass.  I always wondered if Steinbeck just considered all the X66 routes to be part of US Route 66? 


Steinbeck didn't care (IMO) about being factually accurate about Route 66.  It was used as a symbol for a road to paradise.

Rothman

Makes me wonder about Michael Wallis' book...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Rothman on September 19, 2022, 12:18:38 PM
Makes me wonder about Michael Wallis' book...

You got me curious so I just picked up a copy on eBay.  I'll share my thoughts once I've had a look. 

Rothman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 19, 2022, 12:27:32 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 19, 2022, 12:18:38 PM
Makes me wonder about Michael Wallis' book...

You got me curious so I just picked up a copy on eBay.  I'll share my thoughts once I've had a look.
He was Pixar's consultant on the original Cars.  I've got the book; it's heavy on nostalgia, but does contain asserted facts therein I'd imagine you might disagree with.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Henry

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 16, 2022, 04:55:49 PM
Myth:  US Route 66 was the most important US Route out west.
Reality:  This definitely isn't true.  In California US Route 66 wouldn't have even been in the top five of most important US Routes.  US Route 80 was by far more important US Route in Arizona. 
There's a chance I might be wrong, but those five most important US Routes in CA during the pre-1964 era would've been US 40, US 60, US 80, US 99 and US 101. Furthermore, US 60 also went to Los Angeles, like US 66 did, while US 80 ended in San Diego (and became the likely inspiration for I-8, the Interstate that eventually replaced it).

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 16, 2022, 04:55:49 PM
Myth:  US Route 66 started on Adams Street at Michigan Avenue in Chicago, there is even a Historic US Route 66 BEGIN sign assembly.
Reality:  US Route 66 originally began at Jackson Street at Michigan Avenue (then US Route 41).  When Lake Shore Drive was partially completed, it became part of US Route 41 and US Route 66 was extended via Jackson Drive to meet.  The one-way couplets on Jackson/Adams came after Lake Shore Drive opened during 1955 which means Adams Street was never the start of US Route 66.  It would be more accurate to have the US Route 66 BEGIN sign assembly at Lake Shore Drive/Jackson Drive.
See, I never knew that US 66 began at Lake Shore Drive. For the real beginning, that meant you'd have to go west from the intersection on Jackson Drive, then turn right onto Michigan and left onto Adams, since Michigan is where the one-way couplet begins. And then the route would become unified again once on Ogden Road. As a bonus, the downtown route passes the Sears Tower along the way (I refuse to call it Willis Tower for reasons known to everyone else).
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Max Rockatansky

Regarding California I would certainly rate US 50 also as being more important than US 66.  US 50 still has Johnson's Pass/Echo Summit and once crossed Altamont Summit.  That all year Trans-Sierra Pass puts US 50 above US 66 in my book. 

I think a case can be made for US 91 being more important in California than US 66.  US 91 didn't get extended south of Barstow Daggett until 1947 but was the primary (really only practical) highway to Las Vegas and points north like Salt Lake City.  One probably could make an argument for US Route 395 also given it was added in 1934 and serviced places like the eastern Sierras and San Diego.  Either way, I'm glad Camp Cajon also acknowledged that US 66 wasn't alone in Cajon Pass most of it's service life:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0dUCVgdfeQsR4QnuvzpiMzxXNyev35SBp1ABT8hf7jjJvQL99hNhN2RTrFdYrpRw2l&id=2109291012638939

Regarding Chicago, to me LSD and Jackson Drive seems like a better place to start the Historic US 66 signage.  That was in fact the longest active eastern terminus of US 66 and LSD to me outweighs Michigan Avenue in terms of historic importance.  A couple extra signs would be easy to place to direct travelers and a plaque could easily explain when/why the terminus shifted east to LSD. 

Avalanchez71

I had seeing all of the "Route" 66 memorabilia that is all over the net and along some of the highways. 

wanderer2575

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on September 18, 2022, 12:46:29 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 17, 2022, 11:16:27 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 17, 2022, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 17, 2022, 10:12:16 PM
Lots of people.  In particular many members of the Freeways of Los Angeles Facebook Group last night, which got my mind going on creating this thread.

It would be fair to say that some people (both older and younger) have adopted a view of I-40 as the evil stepchild that bypassed the Mother Road through the Painted Desert.  But even in Arizona, there are plenty of places where I-40 is on the Mother Road alignment (and some where the "Mother Road" appears to be a frontage road).  We get these same type of myths in railroading.

It often goes further than that.  A lot of the late alignments of US 66 were actually concurrent with I-40.  That being the case, there are examples where an alignment of I-40 would also be a legit generational alignment of US 66.  To me denying that stuff like that was a thing was thing is selling the life and service history of 66 short. 

Pertaining to Arizona, at least much of the US 66 fandom in-state does acknowledge the inherited NOTR segments and when they were bypassed largely during the 1930s.  There is at least a more accurate community account as to when that transition occurred, and the alignments modernized from the NOTR (excepting Oatman Highway which was never part of the NOTR).

The frontage roads are often not the same pavement as the original highway.  On occasion the frontage road will be the original pavement but not always.  Not only that when the highway has to make a curve to accommodate lets say I-40 that curve is usually not indicative of US 66.  I-40 itself would be indicative of the original pavement.

Are there any pre-interstate divided highway segments where one of the original carriageways still exists as the frontage road but the I-freeway was built over the other carriageway?  (Such as with much of old M-78 in Michigan when I-69 was built between Charlotte and Perry.)

Also:  What is NOTR?

Max Rockatansky

Regarding NOTR that is an acronym for National Old Trails Road.  It largely was the forerunner for what became US Route 66 from Santa Fe west Los Angeles.  A lot of the NOTR corridor west from Santa Fe is a match for early US Route 66 alignments but there are exceptions like Oatman Highway and Los Angeles. 



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