DST (2018)

[webny99]

If Utah moved to year-round CST, in winter it would be one hour ahead of Colorado to the east (MST), but two hours ahead of Nevada to the west (PST).

I do concede your point that some places aren't well-suited to switching one time zone east; namely the western portions of any given time zone.
But Utah wouldn't suddenly, as an isolated incident, switch time zones. Considering the state's relative location, they certainly wouldn't leapfrog Colorado to adopt CST. It would be more likely they'd adopt PST year-round, as neighboring Arizona already does. Come to think of it, CST in Utah would create a random two-hour time change heading south! That would be an oddity indeed!

In any case, for the purposes of the discussion, we can only assume that if Utah switched, Nevada and Colorado and other neighboring states would switch as well.

[webny99]

Year-round DST, as a concept, makes absolutely no sense. Just move one time zone over without DST, and you'll have the same effect.

Amen!

I agree 100%.

But at the same time, calling it year-round DST more succinctly expresses to the general population what is actually happening: more evening daylight in the winter.  It's also far more likely people would approve and accept the change. If you told me New York State was switching to Atlantic Time, I'd just about erupt. DST is so engrained in our culture that I'd expect DST on top of Atlantic Time. In other words, I'd react as if it was a year-round overhaul. Call it year-round DST, however, and I'll know instantly that only winter will be impacted.

[tradephoric]

Year-round DST, as a concept, makes absolutely no sense. Just move one time zone over without DST, and you'll have the same effect.

It requires an act of Congress or approval from the USDOT for a state to change time zones.  However, there is a provision in the Uniform Time Act of 1966 that allows a state to opt out of DST.  That's why amending the Uniform Time Act to extend DST year-round is the easiest legislative solution to this problem.  The states would have the power to decide what time to observe, and it wouldn't be subject to approval from the federal government. 

Maine and Massachusetts have legislation essentially approving a move to the Atlantic time zone, but it hasn't happened yet because it's contingent on other Atlantic states to move with them (most notably New Hampshire).  The Atlantic States moving zones would just complicate things further, as now the continental United States would observe 5 different time zones during the winter (Atlantic, Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific) and essentially 4 different time zones during the summer (as the Atlantic states would no longer observe DST and basically tie back in with the eastern timezone states during the summer). 
 
This state might be the first in the U.S. to join this time zone. But why?
http://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article181021281.html

[MNHighwayMan]

I have days where I'm so tired that I instinctively hit the snooze button even without waking up.  At least that's what I assume happens, since I have no other explanation for why I wake up at one of the snooze increments with no memory of having dealt with the alarm earlier.

Hear hear - this morning was one of them for me. 

Worse...when I hit the off button with no memory of it.

That's why I keep my alarm clock outside of my arm's reach from bed. I have to physically get up to shut it off.

[jp the roadgeek]

Year-round DST, as a concept, makes absolutely no sense. Just move one time zone over without DST, and you'll have the same effect.

Amen!

I agree 100%.

But at the same time, calling it year-round DST more succinctly expresses to the general population what is actually happening: more evening daylight in the winter.  It's also far more likely people would approve and accept the change. If you told me New York State was switching to Atlantic Time, I'd just about erupt. DST is so engrained in our culture that I'd expect DST on top of Atlantic Time. In other words, I'd react as if it was a year-round overhaul. Call it year-round DST, however, and I'll know instantly that only winter will be impacted.

It would officially become AST, which, when compared to EDT, is like calling a pancake a hotcake; it's the same thing.  However, AST is the legal, official term.  Don't know if all of NY state would switch to AST; if DST is eliminated altogether, I could see western NY (Buffalo and Rochester DMA's) staying on EST year round. 

[US 89]

If Utah moved to year-round CST, in winter it would be one hour ahead of Colorado to the east (MST), but two hours ahead of Nevada to the west (PST).

I do concede your point that some places aren't well-suited to switching one time zone east; namely the western portions of any given time zone.
But Utah wouldn't suddenly, as an isolated incident, switch time zones. Considering the state's relative location, they certainly wouldn't leapfrog Colorado to adopt CST. It would be more likely they'd adopt PST year-round, as neighboring Arizona already does. Come to think of it, CST in Utah would create a random two-hour time change heading south! That would be an oddity indeed!

Arizona is on MST year round, not PST. It just so happens that MST = PDT in the summer. So if UT adopted CST, there would be a permanent one-hour time change at the UT-AZ border, not 2 hours. I only brought up the CST thing because that was actually a real proposal by some state legislator.

There's no way Utah would ever adopt PST. It's either the current system or standard time year round (which would keep UT and AZ on the same time year round).

Also, I wish that time changes between AZ and UT/NM were signed. It's equivalent to crossing a time zone west, but since they are both Mountain time there is no sign for the time change. I remember showing up an hour early for a tour of Glen Canyon Dam for precisely this reason.

[Scott5114]

One's body clock doesn't care what number is currently displayed on some device; it resets based on sunrise.

Does it though? Check the time on this post. Nine years of working in a casino has me going to bed at 5am and getting up at 1pm. Any time I go on vacation it is hard to adjust to being on a 'normal' schedule, and by the last few days I find myself staying up to 5am anyway. This is not a natural sleep pattern by any means, and yet, by repetition, here it sits.

The Jargon File calls it phase–since computer programmers (especially academics) really have no need for face-to-face interaction with anyone (writing code is easier over the internet!) they end up with some fantastically messed-up schedules.

If daylight savings time addles you that badly, just get a second-shift job.

[english si]

Does it though?

Yes - this is a proven scientific fact that sunlight affects wake up times - not only do people on the western edges of timezones wake up later than people on the eastern edge, but people will wake up earlier in summer than in winter if given free-reign.

This is not a natural sleep pattern by any means, and yet, by repetition, here it sits.

True, but some people are more adaptable than others to that. I'd imagine that the first few weeks were problematic.

It also helps that your pattern is so far off normal. If it's just a little shift (say having to wake up at 6, when you want to wake up at 8), then its far harder as it is so extreme.

[Eth]

since computer programmers (especially academics) really have no need for face-to-face interaction with anyone (writing code is easier over the internet!) they end up with some fantastically messed-up schedules.

YMMV. Speaking as a software developer working on a team with no other members in the Southeast, I feel like my job was easier (certainly more enjoyable) back when I actually did have face-to-face interaction with my team. And thankfully I haven't been asked to start working midnight-to-9am to align myself with the other developers; I'd go find another job instead.

[webny99]

Arizona is on MST year round, not PST.

Oops

There's no way Utah would ever adopt PST. It's either the current system or standard time year round (which would keep UT and AZ on the same time year round).

Considering a PST state (Nevada) is a lot closer than a CST state (Nebraska), the former is still more likely, even if neither are remotely plausible.

[webny99]

Does it though?

Yes - this is a proven scientific fact that sunlight affects wake up times - not only do people on the western edges of timezones wake up later than people on the eastern edge, but people will wake up earlier in summer than in winter if given free-reign.

+1.
It is much easier to get up in the summer, and I find myself rousing with the sun by default, even if I go back to sleep afterwards.

This is not a natural sleep pattern by any means, and yet, by repetition, here it sits.

It also helps that your pattern is so far off normal. If it's just a little shift (say having to wake up at 6, when you want to wake up at 8), then its far harder

Yeah, I'd imagine being completely off from the average is actually much easier to maintain than a 4-5 or even 2-3 hour shift. I can envision myself successfully maintaining night shift, but I can't envision myself maintaining 5AM to 9PM.

[tradephoric]

California is pushing for year-round DST. 

Last year, the California Legislature passed a bipartisan resolution asking Congress to approve a third option for states – permanent daylight saving time. South Bay Congressman Ro Khanna is now spearheading that effort in Washington, D.C.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/05/daylight-saving-time-is-here-to-stay-in-california/

Florida is pushing for year-round DST.

Lawmakers in Florida are tired of the whole "fall back" and "spring forward" rigamarole. So they've approved a bill to keep Daylight Saving Time going throughout the year in their state.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/07/us/florida-year-round-daylight-saving-time-trnd/index.html

Maine is pushing to change to Atlantic Time (which would effectively be the same as Eastern time w/year-round DST).

LD 203 would exempt Maine from federal provisions observing Eastern daylight saving time for eight months of the year and move Maine to the Atlantic Standard Time Zone year-round. Practically speaking, that would put Maine an hour ahead of other eastern states, into the time zone shared by Puerto Rico and Canada's maritime provinces, for part of the year.
http://bangordailynews.com/2017/04/27/politics/maine-house-supports-time-zone-switch-dumping-daylight-saving-time/

Massachusetts is pushing to change to Atlantic Time (which would effectively be the same as Eastern time w/year-round DST):

In their final report released this past week, a special state commission recommended that Massachusetts switch time zones "under certain circumstances,"  effectively adopting daylight saving time all year round. The move – which would have the Bay State join Nova Scotia, Puerto Rico, and others in Atlantic Standard Time – would come with costs and benefits.
https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2017/11/05/new-england-atlantic-time-zone

South Carolina wants to put the issue to the voters:

South Carolina lawmakers say they want to hear from voters about whether to observe year-round daylight saving time.

The referendum would ask voters if they want to end spring forward and fall back and observe year-round daylight saving time. If the bill is approved, lawmakers would send a joint resolution to Congress requesting a change depending on what the voters decide in November.
https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/future-of-daylight-saving-time-may-go-to-south-carolina/article_334bcac8-48a2-11e8-b19c-5374dd6266ac.html

Louisiana lawmakers consider ending DST; one option being going to year-round DST:

Rep. Mark Wright of Covington presented a proposal to the House Commerce Committee Tuesday that would create a task force to study the impacts of Daylight Saving Time. That proposal was passed favorably to the House floor. Wright and the proposal's author, Rep. Julie Stokes, feel the change in hours is unhealthy and can even lead to injury.

Wright says there are two options for how the adjustment would work. Louisiana would either fall back an hour and stay on that time year-round. This is what Arizona and Hawaii do. Or, the state could stay on Daylight Saving Time (the current time) year-round. Wright says the latter option may be better because Louisianans actually spend most of the year on that time.
http://www.wafb.com/story/38086267/la-lawmakers-consider-getting-rid-of-daylight-saving-time

Arizona already observes year-round standard time. 

Hawaii already observes year-round standard time.

[J N Winkler]

I just want to point out that it is actually possible to get up on time in the morning (whatever "on time" means in the context of your own schedule) without an alarm clock.  The key is to determine how many hours of sleep you need in order to wake up fully rested (usually eight), and then go to bed early enough that you actually get this much sleep.  I personally haven't used an alarm clock in 20 years.

[NWI_Irish96]

California is pushing for year-round DST. 

Last year, the California Legislature passed a bipartisan resolution asking Congress to approve a third option for states – permanent daylight saving time. South Bay Congressman Ro Khanna is now spearheading that effort in Washington, D.C.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/05/daylight-saving-time-is-here-to-stay-in-california/

Florida is pushing for year-round DST.

Lawmakers in Florida are tired of the whole "fall back" and "spring forward" rigamarole. So they've approved a bill to keep Daylight Saving Time going throughout the year in their state.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/07/us/florida-year-round-daylight-saving-time-trnd/index.html

Maine is pushing to change to Atlantic Time (which would effectively be the same as Eastern time w/year-round DST).

LD 203 would exempt Maine from federal provisions observing Eastern daylight saving time for eight months of the year and move Maine to the Atlantic Standard Time Zone year-round. Practically speaking, that would put Maine an hour ahead of other eastern states, into the time zone shared by Puerto Rico and Canada's maritime provinces, for part of the year.
http://bangordailynews.com/2017/04/27/politics/maine-house-supports-time-zone-switch-dumping-daylight-saving-time/

Massachusetts is pushing to change to Atlantic Time (which would effectively be the same as Eastern time w/year-round DST):

In their final report released this past week, a special state commission recommended that Massachusetts switch time zones "under certain circumstances,"  effectively adopting daylight saving time all year round. The move – which would have the Bay State join Nova Scotia, Puerto Rico, and others in Atlantic Standard Time – would come with costs and benefits.
https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2017/11/05/new-england-atlantic-time-zone

South Carolina wants to put the issue to the voters:

South Carolina lawmakers say they want to hear from voters about whether to observe year-round daylight saving time.

The referendum would ask voters if they want to end spring forward and fall back and observe year-round daylight saving time. If the bill is approved, lawmakers would send a joint resolution to Congress requesting a change depending on what the voters decide in November.
https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/future-of-daylight-saving-time-may-go-to-south-carolina/article_334bcac8-48a2-11e8-b19c-5374dd6266ac.html

Louisiana lawmakers consider ending DST; one option being going to year-round DST:

Rep. Mark Wright of Covington presented a proposal to the House Commerce Committee Tuesday that would create a task force to study the impacts of Daylight Saving Time. That proposal was passed favorably to the House floor. Wright and the proposal's author, Rep. Julie Stokes, feel the change in hours is unhealthy and can even lead to injury.

Wright says there are two options for how the adjustment would work. Louisiana would either fall back an hour and stay on that time year-round. This is what Arizona and Hawaii do. Or, the state could stay on Daylight Saving Time (the current time) year-round. Wright says the latter option may be better because Louisianans actually spend most of the year on that time.
http://www.wafb.com/story/38086267/la-lawmakers-consider-getting-rid-of-daylight-saving-time

Arizona already observes year-round standard time. 

Hawaii already observes year-round standard time.

What's complicated about this, as has already been pointed out, is that states can choose whether or not to observe DST, but the USDOT determines which time zone any county or state is in, and Congress decides the time frame of DST for those who choose to observe it.  States can't actually choose to observe year-round DST, they would have to have the USDOT agree to move them east one time zone and then decide not to observe DST.

[jp the roadgeek]

Add Connecticut to the list

HARTFORD, CT (WFSB)-
One state representative is looking into whether or not Connecticut should end daylight savings time.
Rep. Kurt Vail (R-52) gave Eyewitness News an inside look at his proposed legislation.
"A constituent came to me in my district and said, "˜what can you do about daylight saving time so that we have more light in the afternoon as opposed to the morning in the winter hours,'"  Vail said.
Vail proposed a bill this legislative session that would do away with the bi-annual time change altogether and have it be daylight saving time all year long in Connecticut

[english si]

I personally haven't used an alarm clock in 20 years.

You might not have, but this isn't true for everyone.

I've tried your method, it doesn't work for me - not least as going to bed isn't the same as falling asleep. I've tried many things to get it to make sleep and bed mean the same thing, but to little avail - if I go to bed too early, it just means I'm less tired at my body clock's desired sleep time and thus continue to struggle - the two best ways for me to be awake at 3am is to try and stay awake until 3, or to go to bed at 9 and try to go to sleep early!

The problem of late risers is biology, not some moral failing to be fixed by different behaviour.

[tradephoric]

States can't actually choose to observe year-round DST, they would have to have the USDOT agree to move them east one time zone and then decide not to observe DST.

Very true.  The Sunshine Protection Act passed in Florida is meaningless unless US Congress amends the Uniform Time Act to make DST year-round.  But you have some of the biggest most powerful states (California and Florida) publicly supporting year-round DST in their legislators.  That is what can push Congress to act.  In addition, the Atlantic states are desperately looking for more evening sunlight in the winter as evidenced by the fact they keep talking about switching to the Atlantic time zone. The Atlantic states would instantly favor year-round DST if enacted by Congress, and that whole talk of them changing time zones would end.

[jeffandnicole]

Add Connecticut to the list

HARTFORD, CT (WFSB)-
One state representative is looking into whether or not Connecticut should end daylight savings time.
Rep. Kurt Vail (R-52) gave Eyewitness News an inside look at his proposed legislation.
"A constituent came to me in my district and said, "˜what can you do about daylight saving time so that we have more light in the afternoon as opposed to the morning in the winter hours,'"  Vail said.
Vail proposed a bill this legislative session that would do away with the bi-annual time change altogether and have it be daylight saving time all year long in Connecticut

Really?  ONE person came to him about daylight and he wants to change the rules for everyone?

Does that mean one constituent can go to him requesting the speed limit be 125 mph, and he'll write up legislation for that too?

[hotdogPi]

States can't actually choose to observe year-round DST, they would have to have the USDOT agree to move them east one time zone and then decide not to observe DST.

Very true.  The Sunshine Protection Act passed in Florida is meaningless unless US Congress amends the Uniform Time Act to make DST year-round.  But you have some of the biggest most powerful states (California and Florida) publicly supporting year-round DST in their legislators.  That is what can push Congress to act.  In addition, the Atlantic states are desperately looking for more evening sunlight in the winter as evidenced by the fact they keep talking about switching to the Atlantic time zone. The Atlantic states would instantly favor year-round DST if enacted by Congress, and that whole talk of them changing time zones would end.

I can see New England changing to Atlantic. I don't understand Florida changing, though; Florida is in the western part of the time zone.

[kalvado]

What's complicated about this, as has already been pointed out, is that states can choose whether or not to observe DST, but the USDOT determines which time zone any county or state is in, and Congress decides the time frame of DST for those who choose to observe it.  States can't actually choose to observe year-round DST, they would have to have the USDOT agree to move them east one time zone and then decide not to observe DST.

As discussed above, looks like year-long DST is actually a legal backdoor to allow states moving into a different timezone on their own and without major overhaul of federal legislation on the subject.

[kalvado]

I can see New England changing to Atlantic. I don't understand Florida changing, though; Florida is in the western part of the time zone.

Florida is quite far south, probably in  the area where benefits of DST are diminishing. What they are actually up to is shifting their nominal workday with respect to solar day, and that makes sense from my perspective - midday for most people is fairly past 11.59AM.

[tradephoric]

I can see New England changing to Atlantic. I don't understand Florida changing, though; Florida is in the western part of the time zone.

Florida doesn't want to change time zones, they just want to observe year-round DST.  There is a slight distinction.  The Atlantic states changing time zones vs. observing year-round DST is just semantics.... it would accomplishes the same dawn/dusk times for those states.  But the problem is if the Atlantic states switch time zones and the Uniform Time Act isn't amended to make DST year-round, then we have a situation where the continental United States would be observing 5 time-zones during the winter and only 4 time-zones during the summer.  That just adds extra confusion, and most American's would STILL have to change their clocks (short of people living in the Atlantic states, Arizona, and Hawaii).  The Atlantic states switching time zones without Congress amending the Uniform Time Act would be a worst-case scenario for Americans. 

[webny99]

I just want to point out that it is actually possible to get up on time in the morning without an alarm clock. The key is to determine how many hours of sleep you need in order to wake up fully rested (usually eight), and then go to bed early enough that you actually get this much sleep.

If your schedule (and planning) is such that you are regularly able to get 8 hours sleep, kudos to you. I use make do with 6 1/2 to 7, depending on the night.

[jakeroot]

I just want to point out that it is actually possible to get up on time in the morning (whatever "on time" means in the context of your own schedule) without an alarm clock.  The key is to determine how many hours of sleep you need in order to wake up fully rested (usually eight), and then go to bed early enough that you actually get this much sleep.  I personally haven't used an alarm clock in 20 years.

To fall asleep, you have to be tired. If your schedule dictates "early to bed, early to rise" on a consistent basis, I could see why you might not need an alarm clock. But for others who work odd shifts, or fly a lot, it can be difficult to simply fall asleep exactly X-hours before they need to wake up. In my last job, I sometimes had to wake up at 0430. This would dictate being asleep by 2030 the night before. This can be very difficult if I worked a night shift the day before, or maybe flew in from out of town and didn't land until late the night before.

Point being that alarms have their place, unless you have total control over your schedule.

[kalvado]

I can see New England changing to Atlantic. I don't understand Florida changing, though; Florida is in the western part of the time zone.

Florida doesn't want to change time zones, they just want to observe year-round DST.  There is a slight distinction.  The Atlantic states changing time zones vs. observing year-round DST is just semantics.... it would accomplishes the same dawn/dusk times for those states.  But the problem is if the Atlantic states switch time zones and the Uniform Time Act isn't amended to make DST year-round, then we have a situation where the continental United States would be observing 5 time-zones during the winter and only 4 time-zones during the summer.  That just adds extra confusion, and most American's would STILL have to change their clocks (short of people living in the Atlantic states, Arizona, and Hawaii).  The Atlantic states switching time zones without Congress amending the Uniform Time Act would be a worst-case scenario for Americans. 

What kind of amendment to Uniform Time Act you would see? There are already 8 time zones spelled out in that law, including what is effectively AST.