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More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend

Started by monty, July 12, 2019, 04:23:31 PM

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cjw2001

#550
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 06, 2023, 11:44:24 AM
Relocations are always a part of highway improvements. One part of the story that caught my attention was the owner of Wilson Farm Market's understandable displeasure with having to relocate. If the 256th St. intersection was replaced with an underpass, would that still require the store to be relocated?
Definitely opinionated:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1605537,-86.1278773,3a,15y,51.05h,88.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0iAbXyCLZrrnBIUtGm3m9Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1609542,-86.1278763,3a,15y,138.31h,101.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szYbrXmlbzkqdxoOjgtg6Uw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

It's not like he isn't being compensated for having to relocate.  If the amount of compensation is inadequate to cover the relocation costs he has an argument - otherwise assuming the compensation is adequate I don't have much sympathy.


JREwing78

Quote from: cjw2001 on September 06, 2023, 01:39:58 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 06, 2023, 11:44:24 AM
Relocations are always a part of highway improvements. One part of the story that caught my attention was the owner of Wilson Farm Market's understandable displeasure with having to relocate. If the 256th St. intersection was replaced with an underpass, would that still require the store to be relocated?
Definitely opinionated:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1605537,-86.1278773,3a,15y,51.05h,88.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0iAbXyCLZrrnBIUtGm3m9Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1609542,-86.1278763,3a,15y,138.31h,101.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szYbrXmlbzkqdxoOjgtg6Uw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

It's not like he isn't being compensated for having to relocate.  If the amount of compensation is inadequate to cover the relocation costs he has an argument - otherwise assuming the compensation is adequate I don't have much sympathy.

Smartest thing he could do is move two miles south or north to one of the new interchanges - let InDOT help him build a bigger store with a parking lot that doesn't require customers to cross the street when it's busy. It looks like he's courting public opinion to try to leverage a bigger payout - more power to him. Paying the owner to relocate was the cheaper option for InDOT v.s. giving him an interchange, and leaving it alone is not a tenable option, particularly after spending the money to cul-de-sac or overpass every other crossroad.

bmeiser

The Wilson's own land on the other side of 31 and the other side of 256th street they can build on. They have loyal customers that will follow them wherever they go. They will be fine. All of their arguments in these articles are pointless. Start telling your customers you are moving and where you are going. They will follow you. The golf cart place, they will probably have a harder time relocating with the cost of land. Maybe instead of bitching, the Wilson's could work with these small businesses in the same boat and share some of their land. Rent it out to them for what they're paying now. I don't have any sympathy for them either. We drove by there earlier this summer and saw a pretty nasty crash at their intersection with a car flipped over. I think the safety of your customers is more important than a relocation. The longer you wait to start that process, the harder it's going to be.

Pixel 7


The Ghostbuster

After the 236th St. and 276th St. interchanges are built, how many more signaled intersections would remain between Indianapolis and South Bend?

bmeiser

If Division Rd continues to be RIRO, there will be 0 until you get north of Kokomo. North of there you have:

SR 18
SR 218 WB
Business 31
Miami CR 100N

So only 4  :-o

There are still a number of at-grade intersections with relatively busy roads, especially north of Rochester, but that will be all of the stoplights!

Great Lakes Roads

#555
Quote from: bmeiser on September 06, 2023, 11:25:56 PM
If Division Rd continues to be RIRO, there will be 0 until you get north of Kokomo. North of there you have:

SR 18
SR 218 WB
Business 31
Miami CR 100N

So only 4  :-o

There are still a number of at-grade intersections with relatively busy roads, especially north of Rochester, but that will be all of the stoplights!

The Division Road traffic light will be reactivated once the overpass at the railroad is fully completed and open to 4 lanes within the next couple of months... 1 stoplight between Indy and Kokomo + 4 stoplights north of Kokomo = 5 stoplights between Indy and South Bend.

bmeiser

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on September 07, 2023, 12:52:59 AM
Quote from: bmeiser on September 06, 2023, 11:25:56 PM
If Division Rd continues to be RIRO, there will be 0 until you get north of Kokomo. North of there you have:

SR 18
SR 218 WB
Business 31
Miami CR 100N

So only 4  :-o

There are still a number of at-grade intersections with relatively busy roads, especially north of Rochester, but that will be all of the stoplights!

The Division Road traffic light will be reactivated once the overpass at the railroad is fully completed and open to 4 lanes within the next couple of months... 1 stoplight between Indy and Kokomo + 4 stoplights north of Kokomo = 5 stoplights between Indy and South Bend.
Ugh, I hope INDOT and the county can come to an agreement on that damn intersection.

Pixel 7


westerninterloper

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on September 07, 2023, 12:52:59 AM
Quote from: bmeiser on September 06, 2023, 11:25:56 PM
If Division Rd continues to be RIRO, there will be 0 until you get north of Kokomo. North of there you have:

SR 18
SR 218 WB
Business 31
Miami CR 100N

So only 4  :-o

There are still a number of at-grade intersections with relatively busy roads, especially north of Rochester, but that will be all of the stoplights!

The Division Road traffic light will be reactivated once the overpass at the railroad is fully completed and open to 4 lanes within the next couple of months... 1 stoplight between Indy and Kokomo + 4 stoplights north of Kokomo = 5 stoplights between Indy and South Bend.

In some sense I think this becomes more dangerous at the grade crossings and traffic intersections as they become fewer - drivers become accustomed to freeway-type traffic and forget they are on an expressway. Hopefully all the at-grade crossings and traffic lights will be removed very soon. Similar situation on US 24 between Fort Wayne and Toledo, and US 23 between Toledo and Columbus.
Nostalgia: Indiana's State Religion

JREwing78

Quote from: westerninterloper on September 07, 2023, 01:19:17 PM
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on September 07, 2023, 12:52:59 AM
Quote from: bmeiser on September 06, 2023, 11:25:56 PM
If Division Rd continues to be RIRO, there will be 0 until you get north of Kokomo. North of there you have:

SR 18
SR 218 WB
Business 31
Miami CR 100N

So only 4  :o

There are still a number of at-grade intersections with relatively busy roads, especially north of Rochester, but that will be all of the stoplights!

The Division Road traffic light will be reactivated once the overpass at the railroad is fully completed and open to 4 lanes within the next couple of months... 1 stoplight between Indy and Kokomo + 4 stoplights north of Kokomo = 5 stoplights between Indy and South Bend.

In some sense I think this becomes more dangerous at the grade crossings and traffic intersections as they become fewer - drivers become accustomed to freeway-type traffic and forget they are on an expressway. Hopefully all the at-grade crossings and traffic lights will be removed very soon. Similar situation on US 24 between Fort Wayne and Toledo, and US 23 between Toledo and Columbus.

You're absolutely correct. At the bare minimum, InDOT's focus should be on eliminating stoplights. If traffic is heavy enough, build an overpass. If it's not, convert the offending crossroad to a RIRO or cul-de-sac. No new stoplights, period.

Moose

If one was thinking right, and planning right.. US-31 north out of Indianapolis would cease to exist and become I-67, connecting it right to I-196...

I hear rumors that Indiana/INDOT once it isn't chasing so much I-69 construction past 2025, may turn their eye to bigger upgrades on the South Bend corridor.
No idea if Michigan would play ball on that idea.


NWI_Irish96

Quote from: Moose on September 08, 2023, 01:52:48 PM
If one was thinking right, and planning right.. US-31 north out of Indianapolis would cease to exist and become I-67, connecting it right to I-196...

I hear rumors that Indiana/INDOT once it isn't chasing so much I-69 construction past 2025, may turn their eye to bigger upgrades on the South Bend corridor.
No idea if Michigan would play ball on that idea.


Upgrades between Plymouth and Kokomo are low priority compared to expanding I-65 and I-70 to six lanes.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

ITB

#561
"Improvements to U.S. Highway 31 remain a priority for INDOT."

That's the headline for an commentary article that appeared yesterday in the South Bend Tribune.

Edit: The piece in the Tribune is more advocacy and opinion, rather than a news report. So I've added the word "commentary."

The Ghostbuster

Are they ever going to add exit numbers to the US 31 (and US 20) segments of the St. Joseph Valley Parkway? Since all the exits on 31 have been given exit numbers between Indianapolis and South Bend, they should also give exit numbers to the SJVP. After all, the exit numbers on the SJVP in Michigan are numbered.

silverback1065

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 08, 2023, 08:31:46 PM
Are they ever going to add exit numbers to the US 31 (and US 20) segments of the St. Joseph Valley Parkway? Since all the exits on 31 have been given exit numbers between Indianapolis and South Bend, they should also give exit numbers to the SJVP. After all, the exit numbers on the SJVP in Michigan are numbered.

that segment is actually US 20 (since the lower number generally takes mileage priority) so it would get 20's mileage until 20 leaves on the west side of town.

sprjus4

Quote from: ITB on September 08, 2023, 06:47:13 PM
"Improvements to U.S. Highway 31 remain a priority for INDOT."

That's the headline for an commentary article that appeared yesterday in the South Bend Tribune.

Edit: The piece in the Tribune is more advocacy and opinion, rather than a news report. So I've added the word "commentary."
Isn't priority referring to removing all the traffic signals, and improving Kokomo and Indianapolis to limited access?

I imagine the rural stretches in between Kokomo and Plymouth are lower priority.

silverback1065

I think US 31 will look a lot like US 127 in Michigan. full freeway with a gap that has no signals that doesn't seem to impede with through traffic.

monty

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on September 07, 2023, 12:52:59 AM
Quote from: bmeiser on September 06, 2023, 11:25:56 PM
If Division Rd continues to be RIRO, there will be 0 until you get north of Kokomo. North of there you have:

SR 18
SR 218 WB
Business 31
Miami CR 100N

So only 4  :-o

There are still a number of at-grade intersections with relatively busy roads, especially north of Rochester, but that will be all of the stoplights!

The Division Road traffic light will be reactivated once the overpass at the railroad is fully completed and open to 4 lanes within the next couple of months... 1 stoplight between Indy and Kokomo + 4 stoplights north of Kokomo = 5 stoplights between Indy and South Bend.

Tipton County is going through the PEL study and we should see some results in 2024. https://propelus31.com/  With Hamilton County section to be completely freeway to the Tipton County line by 2025, the PEL study should dictate the next steps in Tipton County and the Division Road stoplight. I'd bet that any upgrades through Tipton County to Howard County will be essentially completed by 2028 - 2030 with a minimum expressway standard of no stops and no crossing traffic.
monty

ITB


Public meetings were held in June for the ProPel US 31 study. The are actually two study areas: (1) US 31 North, from the Eel River in Miami County to just south of Fulton/Marshal County line, and (2) US 31 South, 276th Street in Hamilton County to just south of the Eel River.

Here's video of the public meeting presentation for US 31 North:



And for US 31 South:



And, for those interested in delving deeper in the US 31 Propel study, here are links to the Draft Purpose & Need Reports for US 31 North and for US 31 South, both issued in early June.

Comments are still being accepted for the study. Right now is the time to submit suggestions for interchange and overpass locations, local access roads, and so on. Here's the link to submit comments. If you feel you have something to contribute by all means do so.

silverback1065

the Hamilton co section ends at 286th right? the 296th intersection has a cemetery that will be an issue to work around. Division between 31 and 19 should just be 28 to avoid the weird route it has now going up to 26 and down 19

ITB


Food for thought. Instead of building an interchange at Division Road in Tipton County, build it two miles to the north at 200N. 200N could then be upgraded to an arterial, serving the central area of the county. Moreover, it would eliminate the large access gap to 31 between the interchange at US 28 and the Kokomo bypass. Division Road could then be sealed off, with future consideration given for an overpass.

At 296th Street, to avoid the cemetery, 296th Street will likely be shifted to the north. Either a folded diamond interchange or a parclo would seem to work there. Roundabouts? Probably, considering the current mania.

monty

Division Road from US 31 to IN 19 has been signed as Truck 28 - just a few months ago in a city - county - state agreement. While parallel to IN 28, Division Road carries a good amount of traffic from Frankfort to Elwood. It's by far Tipton County's most improved road. It traverses the entire county with an asphalt or concrete surface carrying about 2500 vehicles per day and probably more as the Tipton truck ban becomes enforced. INDOT proposed a RIRO and would also allow sn interchange if the county paid for most of it. The county can't afford that large of an investment. RIRO is a disadvantage to local companies with truck traffic. Thus yet another study. Tipton County has only 15,000 citizens.

I hope the Propel study will identify a northern Tipton County exchange of some sort. At the public Propel meeting this summer, preliminary results revealed a lot of interest in the Sharpsville area (450N - 550N). Traffic studies indicated current issues in that area ranking among the top in the non-improved corridor.
monty

The Ghostbuster

On Google Maps, IN 28 is listed as both W. Old Route 28 and W. Route 28 (as well as W. 200 S.) east of the US 31 interchange. Why would they list the roadway as old Route 28 and Route 28 simultaneously?

tdindy88

#572
Quote from: ITB on September 10, 2023, 05:14:51 PM

Food for thought. Instead of building an interchange at Division Road in Tipton County, build it two miles to the north at 200N. 200N could then be upgraded to an arterial, serving the central area of the county. Moreover, it would eliminate the large access gap to 31 between the interchange at US 28 and the Kokomo bypass. Division Road could then be sealed off, with future consideration given for an overpass.

At 296th Street, to avoid the cemetery, 296th Street will likely be shifted to the north. Either a folded diamond interchange or a parclo would seem to work there. Roundabouts? Probably, considering the current mania.

Honestly, there should have been interchanges at 296th and 266th Streets. Which would have provided direct links from US 31 to Atlanta and Arcadia respectively. Instead we get to have one at 276th Street because Reynolds Farm Equipment is apparently that important. No wonder the Wilson's people are furious, INDOT IS favoring some businesses.

Point is, they'll probably skip the 296th interchange and see 276th as serving both 266th and 296th Streets. I get the feeling that the 276th Street exit will end up being the only one between 236th and SR 28. I mean it shouldn't, but that's what I think will ultimately happen.

monty

Beck's Hybrids is on 276th. They have a huge company campus complex, generating a lot of employees, and a lot of truck traffic. The road has been totally rebuilt in anticipation of US 31 improvements. Beck's Hybrids
https://maps.app.goo.gl/EP31j4VLBs93oeTJA?g_st=ic
monty

ITB


Quote from: monty on September 10, 2023, 07:50:30 PM
Division Road from US 31 to IN 19 has been signed as Truck 28 - just a few months ago in a city - county - state agreement. While parallel to IN 28, Division Road carries a good amount of traffic from Frankfort to Elwood. It's by far Tipton County's most improved road. It traverses the entire county with an asphalt or concrete surface carrying about 2500 vehicles per day and probably more as the Tipton truck ban becomes enforced. INDOT proposed a RIRO and would also allow sn interchange if the county paid for most of it. The county can't afford that large of an investment. RIRO is a disadvantage to local companies with truck traffic. Thus yet another study. Tipton County has only 15,000 citizens.

I hope the Propel study will identify a northern Tipton County exchange of some sort. At the public Propel meeting this summer, preliminary results revealed a lot of interest in the Sharpsville area (450N - 550N). Traffic studies indicated current issues in that area ranking among the top in the non-improved corridor.

Thanks for this informed response. I wasn't aware Division Road had been designated a truck corridor. The AADT of 2500 also was an eye opener. Given those facts, sealing off Division Road is a non-starter. So, going forward, the US 31/Division intersection will need to be upgraded to either an interchange or a grade-separated overpass.

To increase local and regional mobility, Tipton County needs two US 31 interchanges. The interchange at SR 28 alone will not suffice. If the second interchange is built at Division Road, both interchanges will be the southern part of the county, and worse, very close together. The second interchange needs to be in either the central or northern sector of the county. An interchange at 200N may be a more equitable solution, all the more so if 200N is upgraded to an arterial. Being located in the center of the county, an interchange at 200N will draw traffic from areas to the east and west, as well as the northern sector of the county. Possible interchange locations further north are more problematic. County Road 550N is perhaps too close to the Kokomo bypass, while 450N doesn't extend completely through the county. Neither does 200N, for that matter, but, of significance, 200N extends east to SR 213 and beyond. If 200N is upgraded to an arterial, it will significantly enhance cross-county mobility, complementing Division Road. At the same time, an overpass at Division is necessary, too, to maintain mobility and boost equity.

So, an equitable solution that provides increased local and regional mobility is to construct an overpass at Division and an interchange at 200N.

With robust growth continuing to the south in Hamilton County, it is only a matter of time before development begins to spill over into Tipton County. It might be 10 years out or, perhaps, 20. But the development is coming. At this time, almost all of Indiana's population growth is occurring in the Indianapolis metropolitan region. Development has boomed in the north and northwest sectors of the region – to be specific, in Hamilton and Boone counties. Tipton County is on the border of this growing north side sector. Soon it may be in it.




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