Minnesota Notes

[froggie]

If I 94 is replaced by a boulevard, pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities will also increase, because pedestrians and bikers will be sharing the road with motor vehicles.

They already are on the frontage roads, and with far worse facilities than are being proposed with a boulevard solution.  So this particular claim is a misnomer.

That said, I don't agree with a wholesale ripping out of 94.

[brad2971]

I think ultimately there's too much pressure on MnDOT that something different from what is there now has to happen. The lid option is the best of both worlds (and seems to be favored by some at the state level as last year's legislature set aside a chunk toward the lid) but at least one of the major groups has still declared the lid option to be unacceptable in their view because of air pollution concerns. But while all parties regardless of their views state gentrification is their biggest worry, to me I struggle to see how that doesn't happen with any option beyond the straight rebuild.

Missing from this entire discussion: Traffic counts for, say, the last 10 years. If the traffic counts for the last 10 years (2020 notwithstanding) show stagnant "growth" along I-94 between Minneapolis and St. Paul, there's little need to do anything beyond spot rebuilds of overpasses that are past their lifecycle. And as far as the "lid" goes, I'd have to ask why pedestrian bridges have fallen from favor with some SIM-city planner types.

[triplemultiplex]

Removal also strikes me as a negotiating tactic to propose something more extreme than what you actually want in order to make one's actual goal seem like the compromise position.
"These extremists wanted to take out the freeway entirely, but we talked them down to building a lid for a few blocks downtown."

[Roadguy]

Removal also strikes me as a negotiating tactic to propose something more extreme than what you actually want in order to make one's actual goal seem like the compromise position.
"These extremists wanted to take out the freeway entirely, but we talked them down to building a lid for a few blocks downtown."

Bingo! Hit the nail on the head

Also, the studies have shown it is actually 1-2% of the traffic on I-94 does not end up or start in Minneapolis or St Paul. Virtually no traffic is starting in Brooklyn Center at Hwy 252/I-694 and ends up at I-494/I-694 in Woodbury / Oakdale or vice versa. Everyone using I-94 in the stretch between the two downtowns ends up being local traffic. All of the users bypassing the metro area on I-94 already take I-694 or an alternative route.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

The MN 65 Third Avenue Bridge in Minneapolis will not reopen until next summer, which will be about 2 1/2 years after its initial closure for rehabilitation.

https://twitter.com/StarTribune/status/1577460812817604613

[DJ Particle]

If I 94 is replaced by a boulevard, pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities will also increase, because pedestrians and bikers will be sharing the road with motor vehicles.

They already are on the frontage roads, and with far worse facilities than are being proposed with a boulevard solution.  So this particular claim is a misnomer.

That said, I don't agree with a wholesale ripping out of 94.

Never mind the fact that said boulevard would still be signed as US-12/52 and still give a sense of "main route" to travelers.

[invincor]

Does anyone here have any experience with using their Minnesota toll road EZ-Pass transponders in other states?  Does it work as seamlessly as is claimed, or have you had any hiccups?

(I'm contemplating a long road trip in the spring, and thinking about getting one more for the other states I'll be driving through than for Minnesota.)

[DJ Particle]

Does anyone here have any experience with using their Minnesota toll road EZ-Pass transponders in other states?  Does it work as seamlessly as is claimed, or have you had any hiccups?

(I'm contemplating a long road trip in the spring, and thinking about getting one more for the other states I'll be driving through than for Minnesota.)

It is seamless.  I've used mine driving from MN to MA and back with no issues.

[andarcondadont]

Does anyone here have any experience with using their Minnesota toll road EZ-Pass transponders in other states?  Does it work as seamlessly as is claimed, or have you had any hiccups?
(I'm contemplating a long road trip in the spring, and thinking about getting one more for the other states I'll be driving through than for Minnesota.)

Worked like a charm for me in Illinois.

[invincor]

Thanks for the answers!

[Papa Emeritus]

The STrib says the reconstructed stretch of 212 between Carver and Cologne will open this weekend, with work on the next phase, from Cologne to Norwood Young America, due to begin in 2024. Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/carver-county-to-open-first-phase-of-road-improvements-on-busy-stretch-of-hwy-212/600217868/

I'm glad these improvements were completed before the area became built up, and improving 212 became impossible - like what happened with 12 east of Delano.

[froggie]

^ There's a difference between 212 and 12.  Improvements to 212, including alignment, were generally agreed to by the locals.  What doomed 12 waw the bypass-or-no-bypass fight between Independence and Maple Plain.

Orono-vs-Long Lake was also a contributing factor...Orono was initially opposed to a bypass.  I'm not 100% on this but there is evidence to suggest that the Long Lake bypass is 2 lanes versus 4 because of Orono...building it as only 2 lanes may have been a condition of Orono's approval.

[Papa Emeritus]

^ There's a difference between 212 and 12.  Improvements to 212, including alignment, were generally agreed to by the locals.  What doomed 12 waw the bypass-or-no-bypass fight between Independence and Maple Plain.

Orono-vs-Long Lake was also a contributing factor...Orono was initially opposed to a bypass.  I'm not 100% on this but there is evidence to suggest that the Long Lake bypass is 2 lanes versus 4 because of Orono...building it as only 2 lanes may have been a condition of Orono's approval.

I agree with you about how the infighting between the communities along 12 limited any improvements to that stretch of road.

However, I also feel that if it were possible, residents today would overwhelmingly support a 4 lane divided bypass all the way to Delano for 12, because the current stretch of road is so congested and dangerous. However, western Hennepin county has become so developed that it would be very difficult to build a 4 lane bypass now. It should have been built 35 years ago, before development arrived.....

[triplemultiplex]

That's the kind of thing that can happen when suburbia becomes to "balkanized".
Though as far as Midwest states go, Minnesota is usually pretty good about incorporating townships in such a way as to avoid these silly territorial pissing matches between copy/paste suburbs.

[discochris]

Saw a terrible sign today.

Coming back from my friend's cabin in Crosby, there was some sort of detour for 23 west of Milaca. 
There was a detour sign near Pease directing people to follow 169.

And the detour sign for 169 was using an Interstate shield for 169. 

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Saw a terrible sign today.

Coming back from my friend's cabin in Crosby, there was some sort of detour for 23 west of Milaca. 
There was a detour sign near Pease directing people to follow 169.

And the detour sign for 169 was using an Interstate shield for 169. 

Ironically there used to be a sign on that stretch of US 169 between Elk River and Mille Lacs stating "US 169 IS NOT INTERSTATE" to emphasize the 55 MPH limit back when it was stuck in NMSL hell. I think Steve Riner had a photo of it.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Random observation since I went down a rabbit hole with 169...was the short "business spur" in Onamia between 169 and TH 27 formerly state-maintained? It was marked with a dark line on the state maps until the mid-1990s.

[froggie]

Random observation since I went down a rabbit hole with 169...was the short "business spur" in Onamia between 169 and TH 27 formerly state-maintained? It was marked with a dark line on the state maps until the mid-1990s.

Not to my knowledge.  I believe that was just cartographic laziness.

[Papa Emeritus]

Speaking of US 12, today's STrib says an upgrade to the intersection between County road 92 and US 12 in Independence has opened. The upgrade eliminates the 1/4 mile concurrency of 92 and 12, replacing it with an overpass and a roundabout. Another roundabout opened further east at the 12 - 90 intersection. Here's a link to the article:

https://www.startribune.com/overpass-to-improve-safety-at-dangerous-hwy-12-intersection-opens-in-independence/600220765/

The article also says MnDoT just completed a safety study of 12 between Independence and Delano. It will be interesting to see what recommendations MnDoT makes....

[Mdcastle]

Northbound US 169 reassurance shield after the new 197th Street Entrance...

[froggie]

Seems....misplaced...

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Seems....misplaced...

That whole sign is FUBAR. It doesn't even match the specs for the Shakopee business route.

[discochris]

Saw a terrible sign today.

Coming back from my friend's cabin in Crosby, there was some sort of detour for 23 west of Milaca. 
There was a detour sign near Pease directing people to follow 169.

And the detour sign for 169 was using an Interstate shield for 169. 

Ironically there used to be a sign on that stretch of US 169 between Elk River and Mille Lacs stating "US 169 IS NOT INTERSTATE" to emphasize the 55 MPH limit back when it was stuck in NMSL hell. I think Steve Riner had a photo of it.

That's a blast from the past! I remember that sign.

[Papa Emeritus]

Today's STrib has updates on three proposed upgrades in the northwest Metro.

Maple Grove and Rogers are requesting money for an extra lane in two places on I-94. One lane would be west of the Fish Lake interchange with 494, and the other lane would be between Hemlock Lane and Weaver Lake Road.

The other upgrade would be to finish the last leg of 610.

Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/maple-grove-seeks-funds-to-relieve-congestion-at-i-94-494-interchange/600236999/

I think the extra lane at the Fish Lake Interchange should have been built at least 20 years ago.....

[TheHighwayMan3561]

The fact that the center lane merge from NB 494 to WB 94 was not eliminated when they rebuilt both 494 and 94 separately in recent years is downright criminal.