The ghosts of Los Angeles' unbuilt freeways

[ClassicHasClass]

Nice article in the L.A. Times, though nothing new to people who have read cahwyguy's stuff avidly.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-06-07/the-ghosts-of-los-angeles-unbuilt-freeways

[Max Rockatansky]

The LA Times got me with their paywall this time.

[Henry]

I've always been intrigued by unbuilt freeways, but even without such gems as the Malibu-Whitnall, Beverly Hills, Marina-Slauson and Pacific Coast Freeways, L.A. still has the biggest urban network in America.

Randolph Collier is probably the biggest reason why it still doesn't have a viable public transit system, because he called the BART lines in San Francisco a "test tube" and "rabbit transit," because "Whatever it is, it's no damn good". If nothing else, at least San Fran was planning ahead with its public transit system (including the famed cable cars), because it realized that not every planned freeway was going to be built (like the Golden Gate, Central and Embarcadero Freeways) and needed a backup plan for the inevitable.

[skluth]

The LA Times got me with their paywall this time.

I was able to read it using an incognito window in Chrome.

I agree it's interesting with little, if any, new information but a good read. Best part for me was the old graphics, though I think if I looked long enough I'd find the same graphics on AA Roads or the Cal Highways page.

[Max Rockatansky]

The LA Times got me with their paywall this time.

I was able to read it using an incognito window in Chrome.

I agree it's interesting with little, if any, new information but a good read. Best part for me was the old graphics, though I think if I looked long enough I'd find the same graphics on AA Roads or the Cal Highways page.

Good tip, I just skimmed through it.  I think Daniel said to me best one time "basically everything was planned to be a freeway at some point."  

Maybe I missed it in my skim but it doesn't look like the Times picked up on the once planned Terminal Island Freeway extension to the Los Angeles River Freeway?

[cahwyguy]

Maybe I missed it in my skim but it doesn't look like the Times picked up on the once planned Terminal Island Freeway extension to the Los Angeles River Freeway?

No, they didn't, but they also missed the eastern freeways, as well as the the bunch up Santa Clarita way. They did, however, link to cahighways.org, so I think I know their source :-)

[Max Rockatansky]

Maybe I missed it in my skim but it doesn't look like the Times picked up on the once planned Terminal Island Freeway extension to the Los Angeles River Freeway?

No, they didn't, but they also missed the eastern freeways, as well as the the bunch up Santa Clarita way. They did, however, link to cahighways.org, so I think I know their source :-)

Heh, I caught that when I had an opportunity to read more in depth when the article showed up on Freewayjim.

[kernals12]

One gets the feeling that the 1958 Freeway and Expressway Plan was drawn up by engineers who just looked at a map and thought "that looks like a good place for a freeway"

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

[kernals12]

The author mentioned that Lucille Ball was one of the celebrities fighting against the Beverly Hills Freeway. Not coincidentally, in 1967, there was an episode of The Lucy Show where Lucy fights to save a small town from having a highway built down its main street.

[pderocco]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

If they had done it back in the 60s, they would be jammed up by now.

[kernals12]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

If they had done it back in the 60s, they would be jammed up by now.

Really? Is there that much beach traffic?

[roadman65]

The article shows that CA 1 in the LA area was ALT US 101 at one time.  Was that true?

[Max Rockatansky]

The article shows that CA 1 in the LA area was ALT US 101 at one time.  Was that true?

Yes, from 1935-63.  It was very briefly CA 3 in 1934.

[RZF]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

If they had done it back in the 60s, they would be jammed up by now.

Really? Is there that much beach traffic?

From May to September, Kanan Dume/Malibu Canyon and Las Virgenes/Topanga Canyon Rds are all parking lots from about 3pm-6pm every day going northbound to the 101. There is even heavy 101 traffic for a few exits going southbound just from the sheer amount of Malibu beachgoers driving home. PCH has horrendous traffic at this time, too, from Kanan Dume all the way to the 10.

[kernals12]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

If they had done it back in the 60s, they would be jammed up by now.

Really? Is there that much beach traffic?

From May to September, Kanan Dume/Malibu Canyon and Las Virgenes/Topanga Canyon Rds are all parking lots from about 3pm-6pm every day going northbound to the 101. There is even heavy 101 traffic for a few exits going southbound just from the sheer amount of Malibu beachgoers driving home. PCH has horrendous traffic at this time, too, from Kanan Dume all the way to the 10.

But with freeways, wouldn't that just move the bottleneck to the streets of Malibu?

[Occidental Tourist]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

Having driven PCH for several years, there absolutely would have been traffic to justify their construction. They both would have not only become feeders for the beaches, but alternate commuter routes for the 405, as Topanga Canyon is today.

And PCH south of Temescal Canyon and the 10 from the McClure Tunnel would rival the 405 in terms of volume of traffic if they had.

[kernals12]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

Having driven PCH for several years, there absolutely would have been traffic to justify their construction. They both would have not only become feeders for the beaches, but alternate commuter routes for the 405, as Topanga Canyon is today.

And PCH south of Temescal Canyon and the 10 from the McClure Tunnel would rival the 405 in terms of volume of traffic if they had.

I think the Laurel Canyon Freeway would've been much more feasible for relieving the 405.

[skluth]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

Having driven PCH for several years, there absolutely would have been traffic to justify their construction. They both would have not only become feeders for the beaches, but alternate commuter routes for the 405, as Topanga Canyon is today.

And PCH south of Temescal Canyon and the 10 from the McClure Tunnel would rival the 405 in terms of volume of traffic if they had.

I think the Laurel Canyon Freeway would've been much more feasible for relieving the 405.

He didn't say it would take traffic from the 405. He said it would rival the volume. It would be adding traffic from the 101  (although some of that traffic takes the 405 to get there).

[kernals12]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

Having driven PCH for several years, there absolutely would have been traffic to justify their construction. They both would have not only become feeders for the beaches, but alternate commuter routes for the 405, as Topanga Canyon is today.

And PCH south of Temescal Canyon and the 10 from the McClure Tunnel would rival the 405 in terms of volume of traffic if they had.

I think the Laurel Canyon Freeway would've been much more feasible for relieving the 405.

He didn't say it would take traffic from the 405. He said it would rival the volume. It would be adding traffic from the 101  (although some of that traffic takes the 405 to get there).

He was talking about the part of the PCF south of the 10 Freeway

[Occidental Tourist]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

Having driven PCH for several years, there absolutely would have been traffic to justify their construction. They both would have not only become feeders for the beaches, but alternate commuter routes for the 405, as Topanga Canyon is today.

And PCH south of Temescal Canyon and the 10 from the McClure Tunnel would rival the 405 in terms of volume of traffic if they had.

I think the Laurel Canyon Freeway would've been much more feasible for relieving the 405.

He didn't say it would take traffic from the 405. He said it would rival the volume. It would be adding traffic from the 101  (although some of that traffic takes the 405 to get there).

He was talking about the part of the PCF south of the 10 Freeway

The part from the McClure tunnel to Temescal Canyon and points north (west).  You'd be adding traffic from the West Valley and Conejo Valley to a six-lane beach route with traffic lights.  Whether it would provide any relief to the 405, I don't know. There might have been, but at the cost of making Santa Monica, Pacific Palisades, and Malibu much more difficult to travel around.

[kernals12]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

Having driven PCH for several years, there absolutely would have been traffic to justify their construction. They both would have not only become feeders for the beaches, but alternate commuter routes for the 405, as Topanga Canyon is today.

And PCH south of Temescal Canyon and the 10 from the McClure Tunnel would rival the 405 in terms of volume of traffic if they had.

I think the Laurel Canyon Freeway would've been much more feasible for relieving the 405.

He didn't say it would take traffic from the 405. He said it would rival the volume. It would be adding traffic from the 101  (although some of that traffic takes the 405 to get there).

He was talking about the part of the PCF south of the 10 Freeway

The part from the McClure tunnel to Temescal Canyon and points north (west).  You'd be adding traffic from the West Valley and Conejo Valley to a six-lane beach route with traffic lights.  Whether it would provide any relief to the 405, I don't know. There might have been, but at the cost of making Santa Monica, Pacific Palisades, and Malibu much more difficult to travel around.

I have this fantasy where everything between Point Magu and Topanga Beach was made into a park and the Pacific Coast Highway was made into a beautifully landscaped parkway.

I really despise the drawbridge mentality that residents of California's most scenic areas have.

[Max Rockatansky]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

Having driven PCH for several years, there absolutely would have been traffic to justify their construction. They both would have not only become feeders for the beaches, but alternate commuter routes for the 405, as Topanga Canyon is today.

And PCH south of Temescal Canyon and the 10 from the McClure Tunnel would rival the 405 in terms of volume of traffic if they had.

I think the Laurel Canyon Freeway would've been much more feasible for relieving the 405.

He didn't say it would take traffic from the 405. He said it would rival the volume. It would be adding traffic from the 101  (although some of that traffic takes the 405 to get there).

He was talking about the part of the PCF south of the 10 Freeway

The part from the McClure tunnel to Temescal Canyon and points north (west).  You'd be adding traffic from the West Valley and Conejo Valley to a six-lane beach route with traffic lights.  Whether it would provide any relief to the 405, I don't know. There might have been, but at the cost of making Santa Monica, Pacific Palisades, and Malibu much more difficult to travel around.

I have this fantasy where everything between Point Magu and Topanga Beach was made into a park and the Pacific Coast Highway was made into a beautifully landscaped parkway.

I really despise the drawbridge mentality that residents of California's most scenic areas have.

A lot of it is park land.  That become pretty apparent pretty quickly on dirt Mulholland or any of the random beaches on CA 1. 

[kernals12]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

Having driven PCH for several years, there absolutely would have been traffic to justify their construction. They both would have not only become feeders for the beaches, but alternate commuter routes for the 405, as Topanga Canyon is today.

And PCH south of Temescal Canyon and the 10 from the McClure Tunnel would rival the 405 in terms of volume of traffic if they had.

I think the Laurel Canyon Freeway would've been much more feasible for relieving the 405.

He didn't say it would take traffic from the 405. He said it would rival the volume. It would be adding traffic from the 101  (although some of that traffic takes the 405 to get there).

He was talking about the part of the PCF south of the 10 Freeway

The part from the McClure tunnel to Temescal Canyon and points north (west).  You'd be adding traffic from the West Valley and Conejo Valley to a six-lane beach route with traffic lights.  Whether it would provide any relief to the 405, I don't know. There might have been, but at the cost of making Santa Monica, Pacific Palisades, and Malibu much more difficult to travel around.

I have this fantasy where everything between Point Magu and Topanga Beach was made into a park and the Pacific Coast Highway was made into a beautifully landscaped parkway.

I really despise the drawbridge mentality that residents of California's most scenic areas have.

A lot of it is park land.  That become pretty apparent pretty quickly on dirt Mulholland or any of the random beaches on CA 1.

I wish all of it was. Where Malibu currently exists, there'd be parking and lodging facilities for people who want to go to the beach or take a tour of the Canyon.

[Max Rockatansky]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

Having driven PCH for several years, there absolutely would have been traffic to justify their construction. They both would have not only become feeders for the beaches, but alternate commuter routes for the 405, as Topanga Canyon is today.

And PCH south of Temescal Canyon and the 10 from the McClure Tunnel would rival the 405 in terms of volume of traffic if they had.

I think the Laurel Canyon Freeway would've been much more feasible for relieving the 405.

He didn't say it would take traffic from the 405. He said it would rival the volume. It would be adding traffic from the 101  (although some of that traffic takes the 405 to get there).

He was talking about the part of the PCF south of the 10 Freeway

The part from the McClure tunnel to Temescal Canyon and points north (west).  You'd be adding traffic from the West Valley and Conejo Valley to a six-lane beach route with traffic lights.  Whether it would provide any relief to the 405, I don't know. There might have been, but at the cost of making Santa Monica, Pacific Palisades, and Malibu much more difficult to travel around.

I have this fantasy where everything between Point Magu and Topanga Beach was made into a park and the Pacific Coast Highway was made into a beautifully landscaped parkway.

I really despise the drawbridge mentality that residents of California's most scenic areas have.

A lot of it is park land.  That become pretty apparent pretty quickly on dirt Mulholland or any of the random beaches on CA 1.

I wish all of it was. Where Malibu currently exists, there'd be parking and lodging facilities for people who want to go to the beach or take a tour of the Canyon.

The main problem is everyone tourism wise congregates at Topanga Canyon.  There are a lot of places, especially west of Malibu that are pretty much wide open beach front. 

[pderocco]

Even without environmentalists or NIMBYs, does anyone really believe they could build freeways through Topanga or Malibu Canyons or that there could possibly be enough traffic to warrant their construction?

If they had done it back in the 60s, they would be jammed up by now.

Really? Is there that much beach traffic?

I think the land along the freeway in the mountains would have been more heavily developed. The residents would work in the SF Valley, but the closer to the beach, the more valuable the land. In the summer it's frequently 30 degrees cooler at the beach than around US-101.

You can see this effect along route 73 in OC. When they first build that, it went through a whole lotta nuthin. Now look at it. Were it not for its exhorbitant tolls, that freeway would be jammed up too.