Service Plazas on non-toll highways

[GaryV]

Because it's the Internet and it's fun.

[Big John]

Because it's the Internet and it's fun.

[renegade]

"gOUuginG" = childish.  I'm done with this thread.

[hbelkins]

"Price gouging" is a lot like that time-honored description of obscenity: one may not be able to define it, but one knows it when one sees it.

What do you call charging an inflated price to a captive audience? Or sharply increasing prices prior to, or in the wake of, some sort of random event? (Like marking up plywood or generators in advance of a hurricane, or on kerosene heaters during a prolonged power outage in winter?)

Most states have legal definitions of price gouging and prohibit it in certain situations.

Perhaps a more fitting term might be collusion. It happens frequently in communities concerning gas prices. It was even news a few years ago when one gas station in Clay County, Ky., was significantly undercutting the other stations on prices and they were complaining and putting pressure on that station to increase its prices to match everyone else in town.

Suppose there was a Wendy's in Vail or Frisco (or whatever ski resort town in Colorado) that charged regular menu prices on its items while the McDonald's and Burger King continued to mark up prices beyond franchise norms?

My point is that service plazas, especially those on closed turnpike systems, charge inflated prices because they more or less have a captive audience. That, to me, is gouging, whether or not economists (or pseudo or amateur Highway Star economists) have a definition of it as such.

It's been years since I drove on a closed turnpike system, but my rule was always to make sure I had a full tank of gas before I entered one for a trip of any distance, so I wouldn't have to buy gas and pay the inflated prices. I think I had to get gas one time on the NY Thruway and was a bit surprised it wasn't significantly higher than off-turnpike stations, but I'm the type who will skip one station for another if the price is one cent cheaper. I have no brand loyalty for gas.

"one knows it when one sees it"

Yes because that approach is famous for its fairness, accuracy, and conformity to the rule of law.
What it really means is "its gOUginG when its more than I think is fair", which is entirely personal and arbitrary. It has no relation to the science.
Prices are set by what a buyer will pay, it does not matter if it is a "captive audience" if buyers are not willing to pay the price.

Did I not say that there doesn't have to be a definition of "price gouging" in some economics textbook for it to exist?

And did I not say that some jurisdictions actually do have a legal definition of price gouging? And those definitions have nothing to do with this "science" of which you speak?

[HighwayStar]

"Price gouging" is a lot like that time-honored description of obscenity: one may not be able to define it, but one knows it when one sees it.

What do you call charging an inflated price to a captive audience? Or sharply increasing prices prior to, or in the wake of, some sort of random event? (Like marking up plywood or generators in advance of a hurricane, or on kerosene heaters during a prolonged power outage in winter?)

Most states have legal definitions of price gouging and prohibit it in certain situations.

Perhaps a more fitting term might be collusion. It happens frequently in communities concerning gas prices. It was even news a few years ago when one gas station in Clay County, Ky., was significantly undercutting the other stations on prices and they were complaining and putting pressure on that station to increase its prices to match everyone else in town.

Suppose there was a Wendy's in Vail or Frisco (or whatever ski resort town in Colorado) that charged regular menu prices on its items while the McDonald's and Burger King continued to mark up prices beyond franchise norms?

My point is that service plazas, especially those on closed turnpike systems, charge inflated prices because they more or less have a captive audience. That, to me, is gouging, whether or not economists (or pseudo or amateur Highway Star economists) have a definition of it as such.

It's been years since I drove on a closed turnpike system, but my rule was always to make sure I had a full tank of gas before I entered one for a trip of any distance, so I wouldn't have to buy gas and pay the inflated prices. I think I had to get gas one time on the NY Thruway and was a bit surprised it wasn't significantly higher than off-turnpike stations, but I'm the type who will skip one station for another if the price is one cent cheaper. I have no brand loyalty for gas.

"one knows it when one sees it"

Yes because that approach is famous for its fairness, accuracy, and conformity to the rule of law.
What it really means is "its gOUginG when its more than I think is fair", which is entirely personal and arbitrary. It has no relation to the science.
Prices are set by what a buyer will pay, it does not matter if it is a "captive audience" if buyers are not willing to pay the price.

Did I not say that there doesn't have to be a definition of "price gouging" in some economics textbook for it to exist?

And did I not say that some jurisdictions actually do have a legal definition of price gouging? And those definitions have nothing to do with this "science" of which you speak?

"those definitions have nothing to do with this "science" of which you speak?" no they do not. Unfortunately the law need not be based on science, and frequently is not. That is the nature of mob rule.

[Scott5114]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

[hotdogPi]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

Interesting thought: how many counties are completely unserved by train or bus (or their city bus system is completely disconnected from the rest of public transit)? Also allow up to maybe 2 miles of walking each way.

[Scott5114]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

Interesting thought: how many counties are completely unserved by train or bus (or their city bus system is completely disconnected from the rest of public transit)? Also allow up to maybe 2 miles of walking each way.

A lot more than you think, I'd imagine. I live in the third-largest city in my state, the next closest county is literally right across the river, and the only reason that county wouldn't qualify is because it happens to have an Amtrak stop in its county seat. I would say that of Oklahoma's 77 counties, my guess would be that 68 of them would qualify.

[hotdogPi]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

Interesting thought: how many counties are completely unserved by train or bus (or their city bus system is completely disconnected from the rest of public transit)? Also allow up to maybe 2 miles of walking each way.

A lot more than you think, I'd imagine. I live in the third-largest city in my state, the next closest county is literally right across the river, and the only reason that county wouldn't qualify is because it happens to have an Amtrak stop in its county seat. I would say that of Oklahoma's 77 counties, my guess would be that 68 of them would qualify.

What about Greyhound and its competitors?

[Scott5114]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

Interesting thought: how many counties are completely unserved by train or bus (or their city bus system is completely disconnected from the rest of public transit)? Also allow up to maybe 2 miles of walking each way.

A lot more than you think, I'd imagine. I live in the third-largest city in my state, the next closest county is literally right across the river, and the only reason that county wouldn't qualify is because it happens to have an Amtrak stop in its county seat. I would say that of Oklahoma's 77 counties, my guess would be that 68 of them would qualify.

What about Greyhound and its competitors?

Nope.

There are only 6 counties in Oklahoma with Greyhound stops that aren't also serviced by Amtrak. So that gets it down to 62.

I don't know of any Greyhound competitors that operate in Oklahoma.

[1995hoo]

Given the troll's use of "science,"  I wonder whether he's a viatologist.

(My autocorrect couldn't find that word. 👍)

[HighwayStar]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

I would scratch the QED and insert a Non sequitur there.

[Scott5114]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

I would scratch the QED and insert a Non sequitur there.

Good thing this isn't a horse track, so you can't scratch anything! QED.

[hbelkins]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

Interesting thought: how many counties are completely unserved by train or bus (or their city bus system is completely disconnected from the rest of public transit)? Also allow up to maybe 2 miles of walking each way.

I'd venture to guess most of Kentucky's rural counties, although there are some taxi-like public transportation agencies in this area that don't run regular routes, but operate on a pickup basis.

Many of our counties don't have a railroad, and the ones that do, few of them have passenger service.

[HighwayStar]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

I would scratch the QED and insert a Non sequitur there.

Good thing this isn't a horse track, so you can't scratch anything! QED.

You're like that guy in analysis that writes one sentence proofs and puts QED at the end, only to have the TA explain that its not a proof.

[Roadgeekteen]

Given the troll's use of "science,"  I wonder whether he's a viatologist.

(My autocorrect couldn't find that word. 👍)

HighwayStar is calrog

[sprjus4]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

I would scratch the QED and insert a Non sequitur there.

Good thing this isn't a horse track, so you can't scratch anything! QED.

You're like that guy in analysis that writes one sentence proofs and puts QED at the end, only to have the TA explain that its not a proof.

QED.

[LilianaUwU]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

I would scratch the QED and insert a Non sequitur there.

Good thing this isn't a horse track, so you can't scratch anything! QED.

You're like that guy in analysis that writes one sentence proofs and puts QED at the end, only to have the TA explain that its not a proof.

QED.

Queen Elizabeth Drive?

[Rothman]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

I would scratch the QED and insert a Non sequitur there.

Good thing this isn't a horse track, so you can't scratch anything! QED.

You're like that guy in analysis that writes one sentence proofs and puts QED at the end, only to have the TA explain that its not a proof.

QED.

Queen Elizabeth Drive?

No. QED.

[Mr. Matté]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

I would scratch the QED and insert a Non sequitur there.

Good thing this isn't a horse track, so you can't scratch anything! QED.

You're like that guy in analysis that writes one sentence proofs and puts QED at the end, only to have the TA explain that its not a proof.

QED.

Queen Elizabeth Drive?

No. QED.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SMUURG8oZ4

[Scott5114]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

I would scratch the QED and insert a Non sequitur there.

Good thing this isn't a horse track, so you can't scratch anything! QED.

You're like that guy in analysis that writes one sentence proofs and puts QED at the end, only to have the TA explain that its not a proof.

The TA only has any authority in that situation because they don't gouge on their gas prices. QED.

[HighwayStar]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

I would scratch the QED and insert a Non sequitur there.

Good thing this isn't a horse track, so you can't scratch anything! QED.

You're like that guy in analysis that writes one sentence proofs and puts QED at the end, only to have the TA explain that its not a proof.

The TA only has any authority in that situation because they don't gouge on their gas prices. QED.

I'm sure there is one somewhere that does, since "GoUgE" simply means more than someone wants to pay. 

[hbelkins]

No, the nature of mob-rule is clinching counties. Which you can't do if the gas price is too high. QED.

I would scratch the QED and insert a Non sequitur there.

Good thing this isn't a horse track, so you can't scratch anything! QED.

You're like that guy in analysis that writes one sentence proofs and puts QED at the end, only to have the TA explain that its not a proof.

QED.

Queen Elizabeth Drive?

No. QED.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SMUURG8oZ4

I never knew Jack McCoy looked that young!

[dvferyance]

If you count the huge truck stop on I-80 in Walcott IA. It's basically like a tollway service plaza only bigger.

You get off the freeway at an exit.  It's not a service plaza.  It may serve a similar purpose, but it is not exclusive to vehicles on I-80.

I know Canada has several along ON-401.

Yes, these are service plazas, and have been noted above.

But you can also argue there are non commercial rest areas you have to use an exit for to get to. I am sure that 99.999999999999999999% of all traffic that uses that truck stop is I-80 traffic. While you can access it from Scott County road Y40 I am sure next to none of the traffic it gets is traffic just solely going through on that road.

[kphoger]

I bet plenty of the residents of Walcott go there.