Service Plazas have many problems

[skluth]

E- You *could* be a little nicer. I didn't expect such unfriendly remarks.

Maybe you shouldn't have posted such a snark-filled, condescending rant. We can be quite friendly, even if we're all opinionated roadgeeks. We're not perfect either and there are verbal skirmishes all over this forum. But it's one of the most interesting websites to me. Welcome to another dysfunctional web family.

[cl94]

Billboards have been illegal on the interstate system since forever; the grandfathered toll roads are actually some of the few places where they're visible.

Uh...what? I'm hard pressed to think of an interstate highway without billboards. They are certainly everywhere along the southern and western interstates I frequent, unless it's passing through a residential area or something.

Even in much of the Northeast I wouldn't call them uncommon. I-290 north of Buffalo has a ton of them, for example. Four states ban billboards.

[Terry Shea]

E- You *could* be a little nicer. I didn't expect such unfriendly remarks.

Your comment is the first unfriendly comment I've seen.  Answering your questions, providing factual information, disagreeing with your assessments and/or correcting wrongful statements should not be construed as being unfriendly.  It's what this forum is here for. It can be used as a learning tool and you'll get correct information from these road geeks so as to not repeat the series of mistakes and/or false assumptions you recently made while traveling.  So it's up to you.  You can either bite the hand that feeds you or embrace this community.

[HighwayStar]

Well, I can at least commiserate with the OP in a few regards.

I don't like toll roads either, they are kind of an oddity. Honestly I would be quite happy if tomorrow the Fed stepped in and said no more toll roads, we are just going to pay for this in our regular tax bill. No more transponders, tags, bills in the mail, roads that poorly interface with what is around them because they have to worry about billing everyone getting on or off, etc. The fact that they "pre-date" the interstate is an excuse, we could have gotten rid of all of them long ago and integrated them into the interstate system.

Two, regarding the bill board issue. The beautification act has largely backfired. Instead of moderately sized bill boards in the right of way of the actual road way, we have enormous billboards on private property in view of the road way. Frankly, it really did not help in the long run.

Three, regarding service plazas. They were supposed to be on ALL interstates, but the lawsuits filed by some special interest groups prevented that and left us with the bad system we have now.

Four, regarding rest areas. Many of these have closed, states usually claim no one is using them but I find that to be an excuse as well. The real causes are A) the expense, which apparently we had no issue affording back in the day but now we are too broke, B) the crime issues, because we are unwilling to crack down on the few criminal miscreants that belong behind bars or in front of a squad, so we let them ruin them for every traveler.

Five, to tie the preceding together, I would propose we get rid of toll roads, and the beautification act, and put up some billboards on the public right of way and auction the adverting off. Likewise, let's build service plazas and auction the franchise rights to them. And then let's take the money made from the billboards and plazas to pay for more rest areas and make up the lost revenue from tolls.

[Scott5114]

Well, I can at least commiserate with the OP in a few regards.

I don't like toll roads either, they are kind of an oddity. Honestly I would be quite happy if tomorrow the Fed stepped in and said no more toll roads, we are just going to pay for this in our regular tax bill. No more transponders, tags, bills in the mail, roads that poorly interface with what is around them because they have to worry about billing everyone getting on or off, etc. The fact that they "pre-date" the interstate is an excuse, we could have gotten rid of all of them long ago and integrated them into the interstate system.

This would break the Oklahoma transportation network–our gas tax is too low to construct new freeways, and can't be raised because of a boneheaded constitutional amendment that requires a supermajority in both houses of the Legislature to raise taxes. (But not to lower them. Funny, that.) ODOT is also not allowed to issue bonds.

I have a toll road as part of my regular commute. In exchange for 70¢/round trip I get an 80 mph speed limit and get to bypass a bunch of 45 mph county roads. Doesn't really bother me any.

Two, regarding the bill board issue. The beautification act has largely backfired. Instead of moderately sized bill boards in the right of way of the actual road way, we have enormous billboards on private property in view of the road way. Frankly, it really did not help in the long run. [...] I would propose we get rid of toll roads, and the beautification act, and put up some billboards on the public right of way and auction the adverting off. Likewise, let's build service plazas and auction the franchise rights to them. And then let's take the money made from the billboards and plazas to pay for more rest areas and make up the lost revenue from tolls.

I'd rather keep the toll roads and make the remaining billboards illegal. I'm driving because I want to go somewhere, not because I want to be subjected to some rich asshole putting up signs begging for more money. Go panhandle someone else.

I wouldn't mind having more service plazas with businesses on free roads. They have them on free roads in other countries (like the UK and I think Japan) and they work just fine there. And of course, there's still businesses at interchanges if you don't like the options at the service plaza.

[HighwayStar]

Well, I can at least commiserate with the OP in a few regards.

I don't like toll roads either, they are kind of an oddity. Honestly I would be quite happy if tomorrow the Fed stepped in and said no more toll roads, we are just going to pay for this in our regular tax bill. No more transponders, tags, bills in the mail, roads that poorly interface with what is around them because they have to worry about billing everyone getting on or off, etc. The fact that they "pre-date" the interstate is an excuse, we could have gotten rid of all of them long ago and integrated them into the interstate system.

This would break the Oklahoma transportation network–our gas tax is too low to construct new freeways, and can't be raised because of a boneheaded constitutional amendment that requires a supermajority in both houses of the Legislature to raise taxes. (But not to lower them. Funny, that.) ODOT is also not allowed to issue bonds.

I have a toll road as part of my regular commute. In exchange for 70¢/round trip I get an 80 mph speed limit and get to bypass a bunch of 45 mph county roads. Doesn't really bother me any.

Two, regarding the bill board issue. The beautification act has largely backfired. Instead of moderately sized bill boards in the right of way of the actual road way, we have enormous billboards on private property in view of the road way. Frankly, it really did not help in the long run. [...] I would propose we get rid of toll roads, and the beautification act, and put up some billboards on the public right of way and auction the adverting off. Likewise, let's build service plazas and auction the franchise rights to them. And then let's take the money made from the billboards and plazas to pay for more rest areas and make up the lost revenue from tolls.

I'd rather keep the toll roads and make the remaining billboards illegal. I'm driving because I want to go somewhere, not because I want to be subjected to some rich asshole putting up signs begging for more money. Go panhandle someone else.

I wouldn't mind having more service plazas with businesses on free roads. They have them on free roads in other countries (like the UK and I think Japan) and they work just fine there. And of course, there's still businesses at interchanges if you don't like the options at the service plaza.

My proposal would not break anything. I am not suggesting states raise gas taxes, but that the federal government raise taxes and pay for the roads that way. Roads are a public good, the cost of providing them should be spread over the entire nation. Problem solved.
And sure, an road with a speed limit of 80 is great, but one paid for by billboard revenue rather than my wallet is even better.

[Scott5114]

And sure, an road with a speed limit of 80 is great, but one paid for by billboard revenue rather than my wallet is even better.

As long as all of the billboards are in Philadelphia and none anywhere else, sure.

[SEWIGuy]

A- I am a SHE
B- I grew up in New Jersey
C- I have crossed the country more times than I could count, I just don't use interstates if I can help it. I've motorcycled it, driven it and walked a good part of it as well. Now I won't use interstates again.
D- They interstates I HAVE traveled were not toll roads, except a couple in NJ. I'm pushing sixty so perhaps I predate some of you.
E- You *could* be a little nicer. I didn't expect such unfriendly remarks.

Do you all think the plazas are a good idea? With no shade nor place to rest? Appalling idea. JMHO. I'm sticking to US highways.

I don't think anyone is intentionally being rude.  I think you are stating things as fact that are either inaccurate or clearly opinion - and they are pointing that out.  They are also a tad skeptical that you are from the east coast, driven all over the place, and only just realized that the PA turnpike is tolled.

[hotdogPi]

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here. She could have thought of the Pennsylvania Turnpike as its own road instead of also being I-76 (I believe turnpikes used to be signed as turnpikes and less as Interstates until recently).

Of note: Draw a straight line between Chicago and DC. For the most part, the only toll road Interstates are northeast of this line. In states southwest of this line, the toll roads are only non-Interstates and occasionally bridges.

For the people replying to this thread: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers (which applies to any community).

[SkyPesos]

Of note: Draw a straight line between Chicago and DC. For the most part, the only toll road Interstates are northeast of this line. In states southwest of this line, the toll roads are only non-Interstates and occasionally bridges.

Kansas Turnpike with I-35/335/70? All the Oklahoma Turnpikes I-44 is on?

[hotdogPi]

Of note: Draw a straight line between Chicago and DC. For the most part, the only toll road Interstates are northeast of this line. In states southwest of this line, the toll roads are only non-Interstates and occasionally bridges.

Kansas Turnpike with I-35/335/70? All the Oklahoma Turnpikes I-44 is on?

Sorry. I forgot about those.

[kennyshark64]

Whether they're rest areas or service areas, the point (to me) is that one needs to get out and stretch for a few minutes.  Just a 5-minute stop can reinvigorate me, especially if the air is crisp.

It's also important to stop periodically so that you don't blood clots, a tight/sore back.  Whether it's at a rest area or service area makes no difference to me.  If I'm not on a toll road and need a quick hit of caffeine and a stretch, I just skip the rest area and go to Pilot or something like that.

On the Indiana Toll Road (random VMB's) and Ontario Highway 401 (especially westbound past London), there are signs that suggest taking a break, especially when drowsy.  Whether it's a plug for the service areas on both highways is a moot point.  The key is safety.

[vdeane]

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here. She could have thought of the Pennsylvania Turnpike as its own road instead of also being I-76 (I believe turnpikes used to be signed as turnpikes and less as Interstates until recently).

Of note: Draw a straight line between Chicago and DC. For the most part, the only toll road Interstates are northeast of this line. In states southwest of this line, the toll roads are only non-Interstates and occasionally bridges.

For the people replying to this thread: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers (which applies to any community).

I was thinking that with the NJ Turnpike, given the she says she's from NJ.  Their signage of I-95 was abysmal until recently, so someone could be forgiven for thinking that none of it was an interstate.  The Thruway has always been prominently signed as I-87 and I-90, but she might not have gone by that way prior to the trips that generated these complaints; the I-90 portion in particular is out of the way from anywhere on the NEC.

[ctkatz]

Of note: Draw a straight line between Chicago and DC. For the most part, the only toll road Interstates are northeast of this line. In states southwest of this line, the toll roads are only non-Interstates and occasionally bridges.

Kansas Turnpike with I-35/335/70? All the Oklahoma Turnpikes I-44 is on?

Sorry. I forgot about those.

both of those predate the modern interstate system just like the northeast's toll roads. it is fair to say no interstate planned or in progress will ever be a toll road. I would have not thought about the Kansas turnpike or oklahoma turnpikes either because they're so far away from the other tolled interstates.

[HighwayStar]

And sure, an road with a speed limit of 80 is great, but one paid for by billboard revenue rather than my wallet is even better.

As long as all of the billboards are in Philadelphia and none anywhere else, sure.

I would be okay with restricting them to the millage near significant cities/exits and not plastering the entire road with them. Then again, the last time I was in OK all the billboards were for casinos, weed, or adult play stores, none of which would be allowed to advertise in my conception of this.

[Scott5114]

it is fair to say no interstate planned or in progress will ever be a toll road.

I-240 (OK)

[Scott5114]

And sure, an road with a speed limit of 80 is great, but one paid for by billboard revenue rather than my wallet is even better.

As long as all of the billboards are in Philadelphia and none anywhere else, sure.

I would be okay with restricting them to the millage near significant cities/exits and not plastering the entire road with them.

No, not major cities. Just Philadelphia. Every other city won't have them.

Then again, the last time I was in OK all the billboards were for casinos, weed, or adult play stores, none of which would be allowed to advertise in my conception of this.

First Amendment

[HighwayStar]

And sure, an road with a speed limit of 80 is great, but one paid for by billboard revenue rather than my wallet is even better.

As long as all of the billboards are in Philadelphia and none anywhere else, sure.

I would be okay with restricting them to the millage near significant cities/exits and not plastering the entire road with them.

No, not major cities. Just Philadelphia. Every other city won't have them.

Then again, the last time I was in OK all the billboards were for casinos, weed, or adult play stores, none of which would be allowed to advertise in my conception of this.

First Amendment

My view is that the first amendment does not apply here, its no different than broadcast TV, there are some things the FCC won't let you air, side of a public road should be no different.And if the court says otherwise, just pull a Jackson or a Lincoln and ignore them.

[SEWIGuy]

And sure, an road with a speed limit of 80 is great, but one paid for by billboard revenue rather than my wallet is even better.

As long as all of the billboards are in Philadelphia and none anywhere else, sure.

I would be okay with restricting them to the millage near significant cities/exits and not plastering the entire road with them. Then again, the last time I was in OK all the billboards were for casinos, weed, or adult play stores, none of which would be allowed to advertise in my conception of this.

Why?  They are all legal products. 

[HighwayStar]

And sure, an road with a speed limit of 80 is great, but one paid for by billboard revenue rather than my wallet is even better.

As long as all of the billboards are in Philadelphia and none anywhere else, sure.

I would be okay with restricting them to the millage near significant cities/exits and not plastering the entire road with them. Then again, the last time I was in OK all the billboards were for casinos, weed, or adult play stores, none of which would be allowed to advertise in my conception of this.

Why?  They are all legal products.

So are cigarettes, but those are not advertised on TV either.
And I would also be happy if this highway bill got a rider that made all of them illegal as well, killing four birds with one stone if you will.

[SEWIGuy]

And sure, an road with a speed limit of 80 is great, but one paid for by billboard revenue rather than my wallet is even better.

As long as all of the billboards are in Philadelphia and none anywhere else, sure.

I would be okay with restricting them to the millage near significant cities/exits and not plastering the entire road with them. Then again, the last time I was in OK all the billboards were for casinos, weed, or adult play stores, none of which would be allowed to advertise in my conception of this.

Why?  They are all legal products.

So are cigarettes, but those are not advertised on TV either.
And I would also be happy if this highway bill got a rider that made all of them illegal as well, killing four birds with one stone if you will.

I understand that.  And I understand that billboards can be regulated because they aren't covered by the First Amendment.

I just don't understand why you want to limit who can advertise on them.

[machias]

1) It seems many of the billboards are gone. Yes they're ugly, but they're something to look at, they give you an idea what's "out there", what motels, restaurants, casinos, whatever are nearby. Plus, they keep a driver alert, like the old Burma Shave signs.

Were you around for Burma Shave signs?

I got a very unsettled feeling driving the NY Thruway. I lost concept of where I was, the interstate is completely homogenous, just trees, no signs, so I didn't know where I was, nor could I get any inkling of what was beyond the trees, no signs told me Betty's Diner with Famous Blueberry Tarts was there, or a Navaho Casino, or a Howard Johnson's. It actually triggered a panic attack.

I find it odd that you find the NY Thruway desolate to the point of a panic attack but you didn't feel that way driving across Wyoming or the Dakotas or anything. Though I love the Plains States, I would much rather drive the Thruway instead of I-80 across Nebraska.

I have always loved the shaded loop rest areas. I actually do rest in them. At the right time of day one can find shadows from trees, and park there, open a window, kick back and take a 30 minute nap. I usually walk around the sidewalks and paths to help wake myself up (if there's hope) or stick my feet out the window and snooze awhile. That is completely impossible at the service plazas.

The New York Thruway has plenty of these type of rest areas, albeit without a rest room. Plus, there's a few Tourist Gateway Centers and the like that offer this exact sort of thing as well.

When I was young, a toll road was a luxury, and a CHOICE. You could take the regular interstate, or chose a toll parkway and not contend with commercial vehicles or excessive exits. Now, people who drive a lot are going to have to take secondary roads so as not to have to pay tolls. The Eisenhower System was paid for by us all, with fuel taxes (and probably other taxes as well) Now those same taxpayers may not be able to use the system, and people like me WON'T use it anymore since I cannot stand the new system, and why the heck am I being charged for something I hate, didn't want, and provides drivers no safe place to rest??

I don't understand why you're calling the Toll Roads a "new" system. They're older than the Interstate system and were grandfathered in.



As I think it was Rothman that said, something weird is going on here.  Perhaps you should stick to walking like you suggested in your original post.

[Brandon]

it is fair to say no interstate planned or in progress will ever be a toll road.

I-490 in Illinois begs to differ.

[ran4sh]

For the people replying to this thread: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers (which applies to any community).

Wikipedia is terrible at following its own advice in that regard.

[HighwayStar]

For the people replying to this thread: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers (which applies to any community).

Wikipedia is terrible at following its own advice in that regard.

Wikipedia was at one time a great place, I don't go there nearly as much as I used to, NPOV went out the window a while ago.