Lanes That Disappear Mid-Intersection

[webny99]

Do you know of any examples where there's a lane - normally a turn lane - on one approach to an intersection, and on the other side of the intersection, the lane simply does not exist? In other words, the lane theoretically tapers within the intersection itself.

This bothers me to no end... here are a couple of examples:

NY 404 at Barrett Dr, notice how traffic going straight has to proceed through the intersection at a slight angle because of the missing lane.
Panorama Trail at Panorama Creek Dr, this is a relatively new one as there didn't used to be a left turn lane here, notice the markings showing the lane tapering in the intersection.

What do you think of these? Do any other examples exist elsewhere?

[CoreySamson]

I'm guessing something like this intersection I've repeatedly lamented would count?

[webny99]

I'm guessing something like this intersection I've repeatedly lamented would count?

Hmm. That's not exactly the same thing as my examples, but I suppose it fits in spirit. At least in this case, there's a "median" of sorts on the other side of the intersection, rather than oncoming traffic!

Your example actually reminds me of NY 531's former western terminus prior to reconstruction in the late 2010's. Except that was sort of the reverse, where there was oncoming traffic, but you couldn't go straight in that direction. (Of course, you can now go straight now, since NY 31 has been realigned onto the new roadway.)

[jay8g]

How about situations like this, where lanes abruptly merge in intersections?

Thankfully, those aren't common (and that one isn't too bad since the extra "lane" is mostly just a bus stop), but it's quite common in Seattle for lanes to abruptly become off-peak parking at an intersection, with absolutely no warning.

[jakeroot]

Not sure if this is what you have in mind. There's a pretty bad one in Federal Way, WA where the left turn lane points directly at the through lane (or vice-versa), forcing through traffic to merge right to avoid hitting left-turning traffic.

As a side-note to webny99: please disable the traffic layer before you share links. It screws with my own Google Maps settings, making it think I want it on from there-on (which I don't because it makes the map hard to read).

[Rothman]

Now you have me thinking of that ramp from Grand Central Parkway/I-278 WB to 31st in Queens.  Two left turn lanes, but the rightmost dumps you into a right turn lane, causing a merging mess at the end of the off-ramp.

[tolbs17]

Uneven, Northbound 13 traffic, the right lane ends and jumps back when there's heavy right turning traffic from Frog Level Road. I think a superstreet option would be the best to fix this.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5717947,-77.4441141,3a,75y,105.56h,80.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXpVmsjGlvN-aSnRsd0PGMw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DXpVmsjGlvN-aSnRsd0PGMw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D253.62411%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

[kalvado]

the one I don't like:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7081687,-73.8220045,3a,75y,315.75h,88.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjj5Es12qQyvU56Z5KjFCNw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
From the formal perspective it's OK, and traffic is mostly local - so people know the deal. Still things seem to be odd.

[Rothman]

the one I don't like:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7081687,-73.8220045,3a,75y,315.75h,88.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjj5Es12qQyvU56Z5KjFCNw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
From the formal perspective it's OK, and traffic is mostly local - so people know the deal. Still things seem to be odd.

When they put it in, there were a couple of accidents due to people ending up in the bus lane and then having to merge.  Typically, they were headed to I-87.

[kalvado]

the one I don't like:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7081687,-73.8220045,3a,75y,315.75h,88.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjj5Es12qQyvU56Z5KjFCNw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
From the formal perspective it's OK, and traffic is mostly local - so people know the deal. Still things seem to be odd.

When they put it in, there were a couple of accidents due to people ending up in the bus lane and then having to merge.  Typically, they were headed to I-87.

I guess I see that pre-accident situation in maybe 1 out of 3 cases.
Coupled with heavy Wolf rd traffic and a messy cloverleaf just downstream.. even google car noticed something
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.708887,-73.8228208,3a,75y,315.75h,88.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stF-Wn7zYbQMSPffFhDJZAg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[thspfc]

Not sure if this counts: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1430362,-89.3060729,3a,56.4y,210h,76.62t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sPz4UrQ4BUzZ-aBTKrhh8qQ!2e0!5s20180801T000000!7i13312!8i6656

[webny99]

How about situations like this, where lanes abruptly merge in intersections?

Yikes! That absolutely counts. It might even be worse than my examples! They should at least sign/stripe it as a right turn lane, if nothing else.

[webny99]

Not sure if this is what you have in mind. There's a pretty bad one in Federal Way, WA where the left turn lane points directly at the through lane (or vice-versa), forcing through traffic to merge right to avoid hitting left-turning traffic.

Wow, that is a bad one. That intersection badly needs a re-alignment. Similar to my Ridge Rd example in the OP, but even worse because of the curve and the fact that the straight lane lines up directly with the opposing left turn lane.

As a side-note to webny99: please disable the traffic layer before you share links. It screws with my own Google Maps settings, making it think I want it on from there-on (which I don't because it makes the map hard to read).

Hmm, I guess I'm not sure what you mean. When you open a link with the traffic layer on, it automatically turns on the traffic layer for everything else? I've never heard of that happening before. The reverse definitely doesn't happen for me... any time I open a link with no traffic (or satellite or terrain turned on, etc.), it's unique to that tab. I've never had it affect my default settings.

(I tend to keep the traffic layer on out of habit, and it's certainly no big deal to turn off, but now I'm curious what's going on here. I guess I'd be interested if you've had this happen with links from anyone else, or if anyone else has had the same issue that you're having.  )

[webny99]

Not sure if this counts: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1430362,-89.3060729,3a,56.4y,210h,76.62t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sPz4UrQ4BUzZ-aBTKrhh8qQ!2e0!5s20180801T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Sure. I initially thought this one was similar to Jakeroot's example, but then I realized it's more of an issue with the lane alignment. The marking leaves a lot to be desired... it's really unclear from here whether it's a left turn lane or right. My initial thought was that it must be a right turn lane until I turned around and saw how the approach was striped.

Fortunately, it looks like it's been fixed in the most recent Street View.

[citrus]

It's kinda hard to really tell what's going on via Street View, but this intersection has a lane drop in the middle (16th St and Potrero Ave in San Francisco). https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7657994,-122.4081239,3a,75y,75.26h,84.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH5lSiNEjGnzqV1cAw9fBYg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

In practice, the ending lane gets used by people making a right. The "no left turn" is fairly new, and that ending lane used to also be the "go around left turners" lane.

[jakeroot]

As a side-note to webny99: please disable the traffic layer before you share links. It screws with my own Google Maps settings, making it think I want it on from there-on (which I don't because it makes the map hard to read).

Hmm, I guess I'm not sure what you mean. When you open a link with the traffic layer on, it automatically turns on the traffic layer for everything else? I've never heard of that happening before. The reverse definitely doesn't happen for me... any time I open a link with no traffic (or satellite or terrain turned on, etc.), it's unique to that tab. I've never had it affect my default settings.

(I tend to keep the traffic layer on out of habit, and it's certainly no big deal to turn off, but now I'm curious what's going on here. I guess I'd be interested if you've had this happen with links from anyone else, or if anyone else has had the same issue that you're having.  )

Basically what happens is that, when I open your link, it shows exactly what you saw when you copied the link: the location, and whatever labels/view you had enabled. So traffic is always turned on (I notice most/all of your links include the traffic layer). This doesn't affect other Google Maps tabs already open (always a few), but it does affect any that I open from that point. It seems to be the only thing that is consistent; satellite, labels on or off, nor terrain are never "copied over".

I certainly don't mind that you use the traffic layer for what you use it for, even though for me, the opposite experience occurs (I have trouble seeing detail with the traffic layer on), but it would help if the traffic layer wasn't enabled when you shared links. But hey, by no means will I force you to do it (I'm still plenty capable of disabling it!)

[jakeroot]

Not sure if this is what you have in mind. There's a pretty bad one in Federal Way, WA where the left turn lane points directly at the through lane (or vice-versa), forcing through traffic to merge right to avoid hitting left-turning traffic.

Wow, that is a bad one. That intersection badly needs a re-alignment. Similar to my Ridge Rd example in the OP, but even worse because of the curve and the fact that the straight lane lines up directly with the opposing left turn lane.

Yeah, it's terrible. I would much rather they deleted the right-only lane and swapped the through lane for a raised median. Right now, pulling forward is only possible about a single car length (stopped on the crosswalk); any more and you risked getting involved in a frontal overlap crash. And it ends up being necessary as the left turn is almost always flashing yellow (the green very rarely activates apart from during peak hours, and even then it's always a lagging green).

[webny99]

As a side-note to webny99: please disable the traffic layer before you share links. It screws with my own Google Maps settings, making it think I want it on from there-on (which I don't because it makes the map hard to read).

Hmm, I guess I'm not sure what you mean. When you open a link with the traffic layer on, it automatically turns on the traffic layer for everything else? I've never heard of that happening before. The reverse definitely doesn't happen for me... any time I open a link with no traffic (or satellite or terrain turned on, etc.), it's unique to that tab. I've never had it affect my default settings.

(I tend to keep the traffic layer on out of habit, and it's certainly no big deal to turn off, but now I'm curious what's going on here. I guess I'd be interested if you've had this happen with links from anyone else, or if anyone else has had the same issue that you're having.  )

Basically what happens is that, when I open your link, it shows exactly what you saw when you copied the link: the location, and whatever labels/view you had enabled. So traffic is always turned on (I notice most/all of your links include the traffic layer). This doesn't affect other Google Maps tabs already open (always a few), but it does affect any that I open from that point. It seems to be the only thing that is consistent; satellite, labels on or off, nor terrain are never "copied over".

I certainly don't mind that you use the traffic layer for what you use it for, even though for me, the opposite experience occurs (I have trouble seeing detail with the traffic layer on), but it would help if the traffic layer wasn't enabled when you shared links. But hey, by no means will I force you to do it (I'm still plenty capable of disabling it!)

OK, gotcha. I just prefer traffic to be visible, especially when I'm looking at a map of my own area, but I rarely need it for anything on this forum. I almost always have multiple tabs open too, so it's easy enough to link from a tab that has traffic turned off. I will try to remember to do so, but no guarantees though! 

I would be interested though, what happens when you do the following:
(1) Open one of the links I posted (this one from the OP should work)
(2) Immediately close the tab
(3) Open Google Maps in a new tab

Is the traffic layer now visible in the new tab? Others can try this too, I'd be interested to know if it is an actual Google Maps setting, or maybe just a glitch or something?

[ErmineNotyours]

How about situations like this, where lanes abruptly merge in intersections?

Facing the other direction.

[jakeroot]

How about situations like this, where lanes abruptly merge in intersections?

Facing the other direction.

Ah yes, the old Seattle 'merge using any lane regardless if it's a center turn lane' move (evidence). I must admit that I do that too anyway.

[webny99]

Another example in my area that just came to light in another thread:

The intersection of NY 15 (Mt Hope Ave) and Westfall Rd/Westmoreland Rd. in Rochester, NY was recently rebuilt. ...

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1144766,-77.6224815,3a,37.5y,283.2h,93.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sneeiWnOEs4cpSgjJvcZFHA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

Very cool! ...

... This intersection also qualifies for my lanes that disappear mid-intersection thread, so I'll post this there too. 

[jeffandnicole]

Another example in my area that just came to light in another thread:

The intersection of NY 15 (Mt Hope Ave) and Westfall Rd/Westmoreland Rd. in Rochester, NY was recently rebuilt. ...

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1144766,-77.6224815,3a,37.5y,283.2h,93.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sneeiWnOEs4cpSgjJvcZFHA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

Very cool! ...

... This intersection also qualifies for my lanes that disappear mid-intersection thread, so I'll post this there too. 

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see any lanes that disappear.  https://goo.gl/maps/SzjGRBnbWGY5X56z7  The left 2 lanes turn left into 2 receiving lanes; the right lane is a straight/right turn lane.

[webny99]

Another example in my area that just came to light in another thread:

The intersection of NY 15 (Mt Hope Ave) and Westfall Rd/Westmoreland Rd. in Rochester, NY was recently rebuilt. ...

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1144766,-77.6224815,3a,37.5y,283.2h,93.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sneeiWnOEs4cpSgjJvcZFHA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see any lanes that disappear.  https://goo.gl/maps/SzjGRBnbWGY5X56z7  The left 2 lanes turn left into 2 receiving lanes; the right lane is a straight/right turn lane.

The 2 left turn lanes line up with only one left turn lane on the other side.

The proper alignment would include a buffer lane on the other side (example), or with the opposing left turn lane offset (example)

[jeffandnicole]

Another example in my area that just came to light in another thread:

The intersection of NY 15 (Mt Hope Ave) and Westfall Rd/Westmoreland Rd. in Rochester, NY was recently rebuilt. ...

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1144766,-77.6224815,3a,37.5y,283.2h,93.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sneeiWnOEs4cpSgjJvcZFHA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see any lanes that disappear.  https://goo.gl/maps/SzjGRBnbWGY5X56z7  The left 2 lanes turn left into 2 receiving lanes; the right lane is a straight/right turn lane.

The 2 left turn lanes line up with only one left turn lane on the other side.

The proper alignment would include a buffer lane on the other side (example), or with the opposing left turn lane offset (example)

Neither are necessary. Some intersections that don't have the necessary width on the opposing side have these offsets. The pavement markings within the intersection are used when such a configuration exists.  Like this example, they have dotted lines thru the intersection to show the correct path to take.

See https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part3/part3b.htm#figure3B13 guidence 3: "...or where offset left turn lanes might cause driver confusion..."

[webny99]

Another example in my area that just came to light in another thread:

The intersection of NY 15 (Mt Hope Ave) and Westfall Rd/Westmoreland Rd. in Rochester, NY was recently rebuilt. ...

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1144766,-77.6224815,3a,37.5y,283.2h,93.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sneeiWnOEs4cpSgjJvcZFHA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see any lanes that disappear.  https://goo.gl/maps/SzjGRBnbWGY5X56z7  The left 2 lanes turn left into 2 receiving lanes; the right lane is a straight/right turn lane.

The 2 left turn lanes line up with only one left turn lane on the other side.

The proper alignment would include a buffer lane on the other side (example), or with the opposing left turn lane offset (example)

Neither are necessary. Some intersections that don't have the necessary width on the opposing side have these offsets. The pavement markings within the intersection are used when such a configuration exists.  Like this example, they have dotted lines thru the intersection to show the correct path to take.

See https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part3/part3b.htm#figure3B13 guidence 3: "...or where offset left turn lanes might cause driver confusion..."

There's dotted lines for the turn lanes, but that's standard for all double-left turn lanes. According to that guidance, there should be dotted lines for the through lanes as well.