Moreover, why is there an incessant need to add technology features that don't improve safety and/or don't enhance the driving experience? I don't need Android Auto. I don't need ventilated seats. I don't need advanced telemetry or faux self-driving modes or even different handling modes. I don't need to integrate my lifestyle into a machine that simply serves as transportation. Then when I want to go and buy a new car instead of buying used beaters every three years, I'm stuck with base prices between $22k and $25k. I'm a single person. I don't want to have to manage a loan beyond what I'm capable of paying off.
Right now I think that there's a donut hole of car buyers who desire a new vehicle out of longevity but are limited by high prices and maybe don't have or can't establish good credit.
Mandatory safety features are way more of a culprit in driving up vehicle cost then entertainment features. That said, a dealer is going try carry and sell stock on it's lots that have a lot features since those tend be an easier sell than the base models. If you're looking for a car that will take you to/from work and last a long time there is still plenty to find around the 20k range in Sub-Compact and Compact lines.
I'm pretty sure it's just inflation. Some prices are increasing much faster than inflation, such as college tuition and fees, but cars are not one of them.
Wish we could go back to the days when a car was a car. I don't need, or want, all this computerized gobbledygook. I don't need a tire pressure sensor. I have eyes and a tire gauge for that. I don't need a rear backup camera. I don't even really need more airbags than a political convention. I don't need headlights that you have to take a fender off to replace.
Unfortunately stuff like rear backup cameras and side-door sensors are there for a reason.
40,000 people die from car collisions. People can't be trusted to drive safely, and part of that is because of the way roads and modern cars themselves (namely SUVs) are designed.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 01, 2019, 05:21:21 PM
Moreover, why is there an incessant need to add technology features that don't improve safety and/or don't enhance the driving experience? I don't need Android Auto. I don't need ventilated seats. I don't need advanced telemetry or faux self-driving modes or even different handling modes. I don't need to integrate my lifestyle into a machine that simply serves as transportation. Then when I want to go and buy a new car instead of buying used beaters every three years, I'm stuck with base prices between $22k and $25k. I'm a single person. I don't want to have to manage a loan beyond what I'm capable of paying off.
Right now I think that there's a donut hole of car buyers who desire a new vehicle out of longevity but are limited by high prices and maybe don't have or can't establish good credit.
Go get a 2019 Ford Fusion. They can be had for under $20K. Your MPG's on the highway will run around 36 MPG while using regular gas. Are there tech features? Yes and guess what? That is what you get these days. Just pick and choose to use the ones you want.
Rick
I can see the purpose of backup cameras, tire pressure sensors and adaptive cruise control. However, I don't like that I have to take my eyes off the road for up to five seconds in order to adjust the climate control on the touchscreen. In my old vehicle, I only had to reach down and turn the knob, say, two clicks to turn the system from a/c to heat.
Apple android carplay GPS on the largest touchscreen in the industry with lane-departure avoidance and collision warning or whatever is a non-starter for me, as I like driving to be my sole focus when I am in the car, not how many gadgets I can hook up and play with at one time, so I am still able to go when the light turns green and hold my own lane while driving down the road and apply the brake when needed, not swerving because my phone is beckoning.
My brother and his wife will get into their new vehicle, start it up and the little screen says, "John's phone ... Connected!" then, ten seconds later, "Mary's phone ... Connected!" Then, about fifteen seconds after that, it says, "OK to drive." Really? What the hell? Yeah, good luck trying to sell me a car with that kind of bullshit on it!
Thanks for permission ... could have been down the block by now! :hmmm:
Quote from: nexus73 on November 02, 2019, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 01, 2019, 05:21:21 PM
Moreover, why is there an incessant need to add technology features that don't improve safety and/or don't enhance the driving experience? I don't need Android Auto. I don't need ventilated seats. I don't need advanced telemetry or faux self-driving modes or even different handling modes. I don't need to integrate my lifestyle into a machine that simply serves as transportation. Then when I want to go and buy a new car instead of buying used beaters every three years, I'm stuck with base prices between $22k and $25k. I'm a single person. I don't want to have to manage a loan beyond what I'm capable of paying off.
Right now I think that there's a donut hole of car buyers who desire a new vehicle out of longevity but are limited by high prices and maybe don't have or can't establish good credit.
Go get a 2019 Ford Fusion. They can be had for under $20K. Your MPG's on the highway will run around 36 MPG while using regular gas. Are there tech features? Yes and guess what? That is what you get these days. Just pick and choose to use the ones you want.
Rick
But why should I have to pay for features I don't want?
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 02, 2019, 08:34:41 PM
But why should I have to pay for features I don't want?
Build your own car, then.
Any feature of any product is generally considered to be part of the price tag. Frankly, we've rarely (if ever?) been in scenarios where the average price of an automobile actually went down. You're basically answering your own question.
Consumer demand and government mandates play a big role. Unfortunately, a lot of features are bundled in together, because there's no way to figure out the precise demands of each and every consumer. If you want to special order your car and wait a month or so, it can be done. But few manufacturers will do so (BMW, Mini, Audi, Porsche, and a few luxury/exotic marques allow it for a fee.) Or, pick out the right used car without the latest toys when it becomes available.
So you're generally stuck with an option package which has one or two desirable features you might like, two others which don't matter much, and a few more that are just irksome. Don't worry about the last two, you can hopefully shut them off, and you'll forget all about them until the warning light goes off or your car fails to start because they malfunctioned two years after the warranty ceased to provide coverage.
That said, a lot of these features have become commonplace over the past few decades and we've mostly gotten used to them with each generation. But I don't think power steering and power windows changed the masses' driving habits quite like blind spot detection, radar sensing, lane departure sensing has jammed its way into taking more responsibility out of a driver from paying attention. On one hand, it might save someone's life, but I'd personally like to negate features I'm not fond of. And for every situation where ABS or traction control is useless, there's many other scenarios where it can be useful. It's easy to play armchair driver against each and any incidents one wants to cherry-pick.
The automotive market hunts, chases, and swallows its own tail on a daily basis and has never quite finished digesting the meal. Good luck trying to stay completely out of its way, though. Your options are to buy a motorcycle, bike, use public transportation or stay out of the car game, which are usually a bunch of sub-optimal choices.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on November 02, 2019, 08:47:27 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 02, 2019, 08:34:41 PM
But why should I have to pay for features I don't want?
Build your own car, then.
You can stand there finishing fault, or you can knit me some seatbelts...
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on November 02, 2019, 08:47:27 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 02, 2019, 08:34:41 PM
But why should I have to pay for features I don't want?
Build your own car, then.
Not only that most dealers will locate a base car you do want. You don't have to roll off the lot with what the dealer has.
I was going to buy my brothers old (99) Ford Ranger until he was coming home from work one day and had to slam on the brakes and blew a brake line. I didn't want a truck sitting in my driveway that I couldn't get fixed right away, so I told him to go ahead and trade it in.
My grandmother, who is 91 years old, told me the other day when I was talking to her that she didn't really like to drive anymore. She has a 1998 (I think) Buick Century that her and grandpa have had since at least 2002. I don't think that the car has been out of the state of Michigan since then, so I am going to ask her when I talk to her again what she is planning to do with the car. I'll make her an offer, but more than likely she will just give it to me when she is ready to get rid of it.
I'm to the point where I don't want a car payment, because with a car payment I have to carry full coverage insurance and that is expensive as fuck here in Michigan, and also because I don't make a whole lot of money to begin with. I just want something to get around town in, i'm not planning on using it for a road trip. If I want to take a road trip, i'll save up my money and rent a car.
Back in the 1990's Chrysler discovered it was cheaper to bundle options together into packages, rather than allow feature by feature ordering. It saved assembly labor; one guy didn't have to install part X on every 8th or 17th car.
Yes, some of the cost of vehicles is due to mandatory equipment (safety, emissions, fuel economy, etc.) But some of the features are desired by a good number of buyers, and are cheaper to install as a package rather than piecemeal.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 02, 2019, 08:34:41 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on November 02, 2019, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 01, 2019, 05:21:21 PM
Moreover, why is there an incessant need to add technology features that don't improve safety and/or don't enhance the driving experience? I don't need Android Auto. I don't need ventilated seats. I don't need advanced telemetry or faux self-driving modes or even different handling modes. I don't need to integrate my lifestyle into a machine that simply serves as transportation. Then when I want to go and buy a new car instead of buying used beaters every three years, I'm stuck with base prices between $22k and $25k. I'm a single person. I don't want to have to manage a loan beyond what I'm capable of paying off.
Right now I think that there's a donut hole of car buyers who desire a new vehicle out of longevity but are limited by high prices and maybe don't have or can't establish good credit.
Go get a 2019 Ford Fusion. They can be had for under $20K. Your MPG's on the highway will run around 36 MPG while using regular gas. Are there tech features? Yes and guess what? That is what you get these days. Just pick and choose to use the ones you want.
Rick
But why should I have to pay for features I don't want?
No doubt you just typed that on a phone or computer with features you didn't want.
Quote from: nexus73 on November 02, 2019, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 01, 2019, 05:21:21 PM
Moreover, why is there an incessant need to add technology features that don't improve safety and/or don't enhance the driving experience? I don't need Android Auto. I don't need ventilated seats. I don't need advanced telemetry or faux self-driving modes or even different handling modes. I don't need to integrate my lifestyle into a machine that simply serves as transportation. Then when I want to go and buy a new car instead of buying used beaters every three years, I'm stuck with base prices between $22k and $25k. I'm a single person. I don't want to have to manage a loan beyond what I'm capable of paying off.
Right now I think that there's a donut hole of car buyers who desire a new vehicle out of longevity but are limited by high prices and maybe don't have or can't establish good credit.
Go get a 2019 Ford Fusion. They can be had for under $20K. Your MPG's on the highway will run around 36 MPG while using regular gas. Are there tech features? Yes and guess what? That is what you get these days. Just pick and choose to use the ones you want.
Rick
.. Before the Fusion and almost every other American-Branded non-luxury sedan gets cut from lineups.
Can you even get a car these days that doesn't have power windows or power locks?
The last new vehicle my dad bought was a 1998 Chevy pickup truck. He ordered it from the dealer. He could not get a truck that didn't have power windows or locks, and he wanted no part of them. He preferred manual locks and crank-it-yourself windows.
If he was alive today, he'd hate these new cars. I'm pretty much right with him. All I really need is cruise control and a stereo with an "aux" jack, and plenty of lighter ports to charge/power my accessories, and I'm happy.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 03, 2019, 03:38:44 PM
Can you even get a car these days that doesn't have power windows or power locks?
The last new vehicle my dad bought was a 1998 Chevy pickup truck. He ordered it from the dealer. He could not get a truck that didn't have power windows or locks, and he wanted no part of them. He preferred manual locks and crank-it-yourself windows.
If he was alive today, he'd hate these new cars. I'm pretty much right with him. All I really need is cruise control and a stereo with an "aux" jack, and plenty of lighter ports to charge/power my accessories, and I'm happy.
The Nissan Versa that my boss recently had as a rental didn't have power windows. I think that it had power locks but I'm not one hundred percent on that.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on November 02, 2019, 08:47:27 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 02, 2019, 08:34:41 PM
But why should I have to pay for features I don't want?
Build your own car, then.
Not only that most dealers will locate a base car you do want. You don't have to roll off the lot with what the dealer has.
It's generally a bad idea to buy a car you haven't had a test drive for, though. My parents did that with their 1997 Honda Accord and were immediately upset with its first model hydraulic clutch (seriously, that thing was so finicky that I'm amazed I didn't burn it out when I was learning to drive, the the amount of resistance to pushing the clutch pedal was enough that driving it in heavy traffic was sheer agony).
Quote from: hbelkins on November 03, 2019, 03:38:44 PM
Can you even get a car these days that doesn't have power windows or power locks?
The last new vehicle my dad bought was a 1998 Chevy pickup truck. He ordered it from the dealer. He could not get a truck that didn't have power windows or locks, and he wanted no part of them. He preferred manual locks and crank-it-yourself windows.
If he was alive today, he'd hate these new cars. I'm pretty much right with him. All I really need is cruise control and a stereo with an "aux" jack, and plenty of lighter ports to charge/power my accessories, and I'm happy.
Interesting. I can understand power locks, but power windows? Manually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.
I do share the sentiment with regards to many "features" out today, like touchscreen everything and lane keep "assist".
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on November 02, 2019, 08:47:27 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 02, 2019, 08:34:41 PM
But why should I have to pay for features I don't want?
Build your own car, then.
Not only that most dealers will locate a base car you do want. You don't have to roll off the lot with what the dealer has.
It's generally a bad idea to buy a car you haven't had a test drive for, though. My parents did that with their 1997 Honda Accord and were immediately upset with its first model hydraulic clutch (seriously, that thing was so finicky that I'm amazed I didn't burn it out when I was learning to drive, the the amount of resistance to pushing the clutch pedal was enough that driving it in heavy traffic was sheer agony).
Don't disagree with that. That said, usually you can get a good idea for the feel of a base car even if you drive a tarted out one on the dealer lot. Back in 2011 I test drove a top level Fiesta Automatic which had an infamous firm shift. The firm shift was present in all variations of the Fiesta so long as they were automatic. I put a $500 dollar deposit down and the dealer made an inventory swap with another Ford dealer in Tucson that had a more base level SE trim that I wanted. With volume cars it's easier to pull off the dealer inventory swap, with something less volume you can test drive then order what you want usually if you are willing to do a deposit.
I just attempted to build a poor man's Versa and it seems the 2020 model now includes power windows. :no: :no: :no:
That said, a 2020 Spark LS manual can be bad for a little over 13k with no power windows and power door locks. Too bad paint deleted bumpers and uncarpeted floors aren't options, it would be truly then the premium Poverty Man's automotive choice in transportation.
Then you have the Ford Pinto where a few safety features were skimped on to make the car more "affordable".
My war wagon has a few features I rarely use, but came with it.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 01, 2019, 05:21:21 PM
when I want to go and buy a new car instead of buying used beaters every three years, I'm stuck with base prices between $22k and $25k. I'm a single person. I don't want to have to manage a loan beyond what I'm capable of paying off.
I think you need to shop around a bit. That's not normal base-model pricing, even after taxes.
Looking at my local Kia dealer (Car Pros Kia Tacoma), they have a 2019 Forte 6MT for $13850, as well as a 2018 Rio 6MT for $13999. Both have automatic windows, A/C, and the former has Android Auto/Apple Carplay and a reversing camera. No automatic braking, but that'll be standard soon enough. Both are their cheapest cars, and only cars under $15k.
Point is, there's still plenty of base-model cars around. You just gotta look. And be willing to drive a manual transmission, evidently.
Quote from: US71 on November 03, 2019, 10:49:53 PM
Then you have the Ford Pinto where a few safety features were skimped on to make the car more "affordable".
Somehow I think non-exploding gas tanks is a feature even the cheapest of consumers would want. But then again I think it's hard to for people to truly fathom that there was some really hardcore penny pinchers in the 70s and 80s (and how common those types were) who would intentionally not get cars with safety features just to save a buck.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 07:13:29 AM
Quote from: US71 on November 03, 2019, 10:49:53 PM
Then you have the Ford Pinto where a few safety features were skimped on to make the car more "affordable".
Somehow I think non-exploding gas tanks is a feature even the cheapest of consumers would want. But then again I think it's hard to for people to truly fathom that there was some really hardcore penny pinchers in the 70s and 80s (and how common those types were) who would intentionally not get cars with safety features just to save a buck.
I heard of a 80 year old gentlemen, who explicitly refused to get LED light bulbs as those would most likely outlast him. A pretty good point, if you ask me.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 07:13:29 AM
Quote from: US71 on November 03, 2019, 10:49:53 PM
Then you have the Ford Pinto where a few safety features were skimped on to make the car more "affordable".
Somehow I think non-exploding gas tanks is a feature even the cheapest of consumers would want. But then again I think it's hard to for people to truly fathom that there was some really hardcore penny pinchers in the 70s and 80s (and how common those types were) who would intentionally not get cars with safety features just to save a buck.
Or airplanes
Quote from: kalvado on November 04, 2019, 07:34:01 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 07:13:29 AM
Quote from: US71 on November 03, 2019, 10:49:53 PM
Then you have the Ford Pinto where a few safety features were skimped on to make the car more "affordable".
Somehow I think non-exploding gas tanks is a feature even the cheapest of consumers would want. But then again I think it's hard to for people to truly fathom that there was some really hardcore penny pinchers in the 70s and 80s (and how common those types were) who would intentionally not get cars with safety features just to save a buck.
I heard of a 80 year old gentlemen, who explicitly refused to get LED light bulbs as those would most likely outlast him. A pretty good point, if you ask me.
Wow he has a point, there are quite a number of people that don't buy LED lights simply because of their price. Yes the prices are coming down, but when you can get regular light bulbs for basically less than fifty cents each, people are going to stick with them until they're no longer on the shelves, no matter the person's age.
As for safety features..
generally, people tend to value safety features as if their life has a pretty finite cost, a few million dollars. I assume that should go down with age as the quality of life decays and remaining life expectancy reduces.
very roughly speaking, 1 out of 10 000 people is US dies in car crashes a year, and let's say car lasts for 10 years - so roughly speaking chances of any particular car to end up ina fatal accident is 1 in 1000. With that, it makes sense for most people to pay an extra few grand for safety features which significantly improve survival or reduce injury as it fits general cost-efficiency numbers.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 04, 2019, 09:15:03 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 04, 2019, 07:34:01 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 07:13:29 AM
Quote from: US71 on November 03, 2019, 10:49:53 PM
Then you have the Ford Pinto where a few safety features were skimped on to make the car more "affordable".
Somehow I think non-exploding gas tanks is a feature even the cheapest of consumers would want. But then again I think it's hard to for people to truly fathom that there was some really hardcore penny pinchers in the 70s and 80s (and how common those types were) who would intentionally not get cars with safety features just to save a buck.
I heard of a 80 year old gentlemen, who explicitly refused to get LED light bulbs as those would most likely outlast him. A pretty good point, if you ask me.
Wow he has a point, there are quite a number of people that don't buy LED lights simply because of their price. Yes the prices are coming down, but when you can get regular light bulbs for basically less than fifty cents each, people are going to stick with them until they're no longer on the shelves, no matter the person's age.
Prices may be coming down on LED lights, but so is quality. I had a 10 year LED light go bad after 3 years.
Quote from: Bruce on November 02, 2019, 05:44:49 PMUnfortunately stuff like rear backup cameras and side-door sensors are there for a reason.
No offense but did you even read the OP's opening sentence (reposted below with
bold emphasis added):
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 01, 2019, 05:21:21 PMMoreover, why is there an incessant need to add technology features that don't improve safety and/or don't enhance the driving experience?
RobbieL2415 wasn't necessarily
referring to those items.
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PMManually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.
Very easy; right-hand on the wheel, left-hand on the window crank. Such was SOP when approaching a parking garage booth or a toll-booth pre-E-ZPass days. One just didn't do such while navigating a turn while in motion.
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 03, 2019, 03:38:44 PM
Can you even get a car these days that doesn't have power windows or power locks?
The last new vehicle my dad bought was a 1998 Chevy pickup truck. He ordered it from the dealer. He could not get a truck that didn't have power windows or locks, and he wanted no part of them. He preferred manual locks and crank-it-yourself windows.
If he was alive today, he'd hate these new cars. I'm pretty much right with him. All I really need is cruise control and a stereo with an "aux" jack, and plenty of lighter ports to charge/power my accessories, and I'm happy.
Interesting. I can understand power locks, but power windows? Manually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.
I do share the sentiment with regards to many "features" out today, like touchscreen everything and lane keep "assist".
If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2019, 01:40:39 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PMManually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.
Very easy; right-hand on the wheel, left-hand on the window crank. Such was SOP when approaching a parking garage booth or a toll-booth pre-E-ZPass days. One just didn't do such while navigating a turn while in motion.
Well, I drive stick shift, so good luck handling the clutch, steering wheel, and window all at the same time while accelerating away from one of those places (which I try to do so promptly if gate arms are involved).
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 03, 2019, 03:38:44 PM
Can you even get a car these days that doesn't have power windows or power locks?
The last new vehicle my dad bought was a 1998 Chevy pickup truck. He ordered it from the dealer. He could not get a truck that didn't have power windows or locks, and he wanted no part of them. He preferred manual locks and crank-it-yourself windows.
If he was alive today, he'd hate these new cars. I'm pretty much right with him. All I really need is cruise control and a stereo with an "aux" jack, and plenty of lighter ports to charge/power my accessories, and I'm happy.
Interesting. I can understand power locks, but power windows? Manually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.
I do share the sentiment with regards to many "features" out today, like touchscreen everything and lane keep "assist".
If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?
I guess I've never had those situations since I don't leave my windows down when the car is not in use and have never driven a car with an unreliable motor. Actually, I don't roll the windows down much period... while driving I'd rather not have the air blowing my hair every which way or the noise, and while parked I don't want the bugs, potential for bird poop (which I've actually seen on the windows before... not often, but not never, either), leaves, etc.
Quote from: vdeane on November 04, 2019, 01:55:32 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2019, 01:40:39 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PMManually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.
Very easy; right-hand on the wheel, left-hand on the window crank. Such was SOP when approaching a parking garage booth or a toll-booth pre-E-ZPass days. One just didn't do such while navigating a turn while in motion.
Well, I drive stick shift, so good luck handling the clutch, steering wheel, and window all at the same time while accelerating away from one of those places (which I try to do so promptly if gate arms are involved).
No offense Val, but many older, basic vehicles featured
both manual transmissions & hand-crank windows. Several of my father's cars (two Ford Pinto station wagons from the 70s & an '83 Ford Escort) were equipped in such an a manner. The only manual-transmissioned I ever drove had crank windows as well.
If a driver needed to raise or lower their window; they just did such when they didn't have to use their gear shift while in motion. If such conditions weren't possible/permissible, one just pulled over and adjusted their windows... just like one would adjust their manual mirrors.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 03, 2019, 03:38:44 PMIf the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?
My mother's main argument
against power windows (I don't believe she ever owned a car equipped with such) was if one found themselves in a lake or a pond. With crank windows, one can simply roll the window(s) down as a means of escaping without carrying a supplemental tool to smash the glass.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Not only that most dealers will locate a base car you do want. You don't have to roll off the lot with what the dealer has.
Not necessarily true. Back in M.Y. 1997, my dad wanted to trade in his 1988 Toyota Camry with a stickshift for a new 1997 Toyota Camry with a stickshift. We lived in rural northwestern Kansas, so we drove up to McCook (NE) to the local Toyota dealer there. The dealer didn't have any in stock with a stickshift but told us the nearest one was in Denver. When we asked if it could be transported to the dealership, the owner said he was not allowed to do that The reason?: he was only allowed to have a certain number of each model car on the lot at any one time, and he was already maxed out on the Camry. He wasn't allowed to have another Camry transported to his dealership, even with a customer standing in his office ready to buy it. So what did we do? We drove to Denver and bought the car there.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?
The switch is going out on my front driver's side window, and it's to the point that I don't really trust it to "roll" back up again once I've "rolled" it down. For that reason, I almost always open the door instead of rolling down the window. It's a pain at drive-through windows, toll booths, checkpoints, etc, but it's better than having a window that won't roll up. I especially disliked it in the beautiful autumn weather, when I desperately wanted to drive with my arm out the window.
Quote from: vdeane on November 04, 2019, 01:55:32 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2019, 01:40:39 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PMManually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.
Very easy; right-hand on the wheel, left-hand on the window crank. Such was SOP when approaching a parking garage booth or a toll-booth pre-E-ZPass days. One just didn't do such while navigating a turn while in motion.
Well, I drive stick shift, so good luck handling the clutch, steering wheel, and window all at the same time while accelerating away from one of those places (which I try to do so promptly if gate arms are involved).
This isn't that hard- you just wait until you're done shifting before rolling the window up. If it's raining or something you accelerate slowly while rolling the window up so you don't have to shift for five seconds. I'm not even that old and have driven several cars configured this way
Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2019, 02:41:52 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?
The switch is going out on my front driver's side window, and it's to the point that I don't really trust it to "roll" back up again once I've "rolled" it down. For that reason, I almost always open the door instead of rolling down the window. It's a pain at drive-through windows, toll booths, checkpoints, etc, but it's better than having a window that won't roll up. I especially disliked it in the beautiful autumn weather, when I desperately wanted to drive with my arm out the window.
In my case they initially said something like that. My response was "I'll just go to Tucson then" which greased the wheels with the inventory swap. Might have not hurt I was doing a cash purchase? Really I think it depends on how much the dealer really wants the business of a stubborn customer.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 04:10:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2019, 02:39:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Not only that most dealers will locate a base car you do want. You don't have to roll off the lot with what the dealer has.
Not necessarily true. Back in M.Y. 1997, my dad wanted to trade in his 1988 Toyota Camry with a stickshift for a new 1997 Toyota Camry with a stickshift. We lived in rural northwestern Kansas, so we drove up to McCook (NE) to the local Toyota dealer there. The dealer didn't have any in stock with a stickshift but told us the nearest one was in Denver. When we asked if it could be transported to the dealership, the owner said he was not allowed to do that The reason?: he was only allowed to have a certain number of each model car on the lot at any one time, and he was already maxed out on the Camry. He wasn't allowed to have another Camry transported to his dealership, even with a customer standing in his office ready to buy it. So what did we do? We drove to Denver and bought the car there.
In my case they initially said something like that. My response was "I'll just go to Tucson then" which greased the wheels with the inventory swap. Might have not hurt I was doing a cash purchase? Really I think it depends on how much the dealer really wants the business of a stubborn customer.
(Fixed your quote string, because you had quoted a different post of mine.)
Yeah, paying cash gives you a lot of leverage. After I had T-boned another driver a couple of years ago, my wife and I drove up to Kansas City to look for another used Pathfinder. I had three dealerships written down to check out. The first one looked sketchy enough that we never even stopped there. At the second one, I found the car I wanted to buy sitting in the lot. The dealer said another couple had already put down a deposit, but their financing approval hadn't come back yet. I told him I was prepared to write a check for the full amount and wasn't leaving KC without a Pathfinder–whether from his dealership or another (and I had one more dealership to check out too). He called his finance officer, who was at his son's football on his day off, and lo and behold! that other couple ended up not qualifying for financing. I don't know if they actually failed the application or if he talked the finance officer into making them fail but, either way, we drove away with our car.
Let me clarify:. I prefer a new car that meets all FMVSS requirements and drives nimbly and confidently without features that distract from my ability to maintain control of the vehicle. I really don't see a need for Bluetooth integration when I can pair a headset to my phone and mount the phone on the dash. And I'm already paying off a phone to begin with. On that note, anything my phone can do my car really shouldn't need to do. Honestly the R&D that goes into infotainment should be diverted to structural engineering and aerodynamics. What is it anyways, what having infotainment do the same thing the car does? It's redundant.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 04, 2019, 05:18:10 PM
Let me clarify:. I prefer a new car that meets all FMVSS requirements and drives nimbly and confidently without features that distract from my ability to maintain control of the vehicle. I really don't see a need for Bluetooth integration when I can pair a headset to my phone and mount the phone on the dash. And I'm already paying off a phone to begin with. On that note, anything my phone can do my car really shouldn't need to do. Honestly the R&D that goes into infotainment should be diverted to structural engineering and aerodynamics. What is it anyways, what having infotainment do the same thing the car does? It's redundant.
I agree with this- if there existed a midsize sedan with manual everything that drives and performs like a well-built modern car I'd buy it.
I'm basically looking for the modern equivalent of a 1980s European market Mercedes-Benz taxi.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 04, 2019, 05:18:10 PM
Let me clarify:. I prefer a new car that meets all FMVSS requirements and drives nimbly and confidently without features that distract from my ability to maintain control of the vehicle. I really don't see a need for Bluetooth integration when I can pair a headset to my phone and mount the phone on the dash. And I'm already paying off a phone to begin with. On that note, anything my phone can do my car really shouldn't need to do. Honestly the R&D that goes into infotainment should be diverted to structural engineering and aerodynamics. What is it anyways, what having infotainment do the same thing the car does? It's redundant.
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic. Bluetooth allows you to hear everything around you in addition to the caller. Headsets block out too much for safe operation.
The R&D that has gone into infotainment has primarily been to distinguish vehicle brands, at least in my opinion. The Audi A4, Mercedes C-Class, and BMW 3-Series all drive very similarly. Their only distinguishing features are optional engines, performance modes, and...yep, infotainment. It's important that you have a good infotainment system because those that are slow, confusing, or otherwise distracting will ultimately prove less safe. Plus, the more features from your phone that are on the car, the less likely you are to reach for your phone. If Waze is on your center display, and you can control it almost entirely with voice operation, that's a clear operational and safety advantage over using it directly on the phone.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.
And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.
And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.
At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.
And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.
Problem is a lot of cars don't even come with the AUX jack anymore. For people like me who don't like to learn how to properly us connectivity that's a concern. More so I use my phone as my dash board camera, I'd rather it be purposed for that and not playing my music. I'd be curious to find out what states prohibit head phone usage, I know it's probably most but I don't think it's all yet.
Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2019, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 04:10:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2019, 02:39:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Not only that most dealers will locate a base car you do want. You don't have to roll off the lot with what the dealer has.
Not necessarily true. Back in M.Y. 1997, my dad wanted to trade in his 1988 Toyota Camry with a stickshift for a new 1997 Toyota Camry with a stickshift. We lived in rural northwestern Kansas, so we drove up to McCook (NE) to the local Toyota dealer there. The dealer didn't have any in stock with a stickshift but told us the nearest one was in Denver. When we asked if it could be transported to the dealership, the owner said he was not allowed to do that The reason?: he was only allowed to have a certain number of each model car on the lot at any one time, and he was already maxed out on the Camry. He wasn't allowed to have another Camry transported to his dealership, even with a customer standing in his office ready to buy it. So what did we do? We drove to Denver and bought the car there.
In my case they initially said something like that. My response was "I'll just go to Tucson then" which greased the wheels with the inventory swap. Might have not hurt I was doing a cash purchase? Really I think it depends on how much the dealer really wants the business of a stubborn customer.
(Fixed your quote string, because you had quoted a different post of mine.)
Yeah, paying cash gives you a lot of leverage. After I had T-boned another driver a couple of years ago, my wife and I drove up to Kansas City to look for another used Pathfinder. I had three dealerships written down to check out. The first one looked sketchy enough that we never even stopped there. At the second one, I found the car I wanted to buy sitting in the lot. The dealer said another couple had already put down a deposit, but their financing approval hadn't come back yet. I told him I was prepared to write a check for the full amount and wasn't leaving KC without a Pathfinder–whether from his dealership or another (and I had one more dealership to check out too). He called his finance officer, who was at his son's football on his day off, and lo and behold! that other couple ended up not qualifying for financing. I don't know if they actually failed the application or if he talked the finance officer into making them fail but, either way, we drove away with our car.
If I recall correctly the sales person asked me about a half dozen times if I was serious, it isn't exactly a common thing in volume dealers. I did the same thing once when I ordered a car, it seemed to break down that resistance especially when a deposit was made. Either way, a consumer with patience could always call the dealers bluff and shop around for what they really want instead of accepting dealer stock.
A lot of correct info listed prior and I'll add, since I work for an auto manufacturer, the R&D costs in developing new vehicles along with raw material costs is probably the biggest factor into what goes into the price of a vehicle. Tons of mandatory safety features that have been added factor into the cost as well, and then recalls can impact the cost of 3rd party parts (think Takata airbags and no volume supplier to offset this). Add to this that the majority of consumers want all the latest and greatest of the bells and whistles on their vehicles, even if they rarely use them. Cheap gas has upped the US consumer's want for trucks and SUVs versus cars and the costs to build a truck or SUV versus a car is higher as well. Finally, the borrowing costs and insurance costs for dealers to keep vehicles on their lots is getting a lot more expensive, so dealers are having to be smart about the inventory they keep on their lots and do their parts to ensure their days supply of units won't have them bleeding more money than they want to or can afford to. Lots of moving parts here that I can get deep in the weeds on, so I'll stop on this front.
Used probably is the way to go but the good news/bad news on this is that affordability issues of new cars is increasing demand on used cars and these vehicles are holding their value or in some cases, exceeding it. The reason you see dealers or dealer groups advertising heavily about offering to buy your used car, even if you don't buy from them, is because most dealers are having to pay close to retail book value at auction to stock up their lots.
My 2 Pfennig's: the "whiz-bang" features are an excuse to charge more. A feature costs an extra $5 but the mark-up makes it $100.
and don't ever lose your electronic car key: the dealer will charge $150+ for a replacement, though an independent locksmith may charge $80...IF it works.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.
And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.
At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.
I am specifically referring to a hands-free earpieces. Those are legal everywhere.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 04, 2019, 07:55:03 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.
And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.
At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.
I am specifically referring to a hands-free earpieces. Those are legal everywhere.
In California you can only have them in one ear, regardless if they're wired or not. In at least four other states they're completely illegal, and several other states have the one-ear restriction like California.
Quote from: DTComposer on November 04, 2019, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 04, 2019, 07:55:03 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.
And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.
At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.
I am specifically referring to a hands-free earpieces. Those are legal everywhere.
In California you can only have them in one ear, regardless if they're wired or not. In at least four other states they're completely illegal, and several other states have the one-ear restriction like California.
My question is, how does wearing head phones or some sort of head set constitute something unsafe compared to loud music or just talking on a hands free device? When I was in Florida I left my ear phones in all the time after the gym because I didn't want to plug in my MP3 player into the AUX jack. I don't recall ever having an issue hearing sirens or train horns, I could see everything as I normally would be.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 08:19:57 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on November 04, 2019, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 04, 2019, 07:55:03 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.
And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.
At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.
I am specifically referring to a hands-free earpieces. Those are legal everywhere.
In California you can only have them in one ear, regardless if they're wired or not. In at least four other states they're completely illegal, and several other states have the one-ear restriction like California.
My question is, how does wearing head phones or some sort of head set constitute something unsafe compared to loud music or just talking on a hands free device? When I was in Florida I left my ear phones in all the time after the gym because I didn't want to plug in my MP3 player into the AUX jack. I don't recall ever having an issue hearing sirens or train horns, I could see everything as I normally would be.
It's a great question, and I agree with you. I suppose the thinking is the physical earphone/earbud will block out ambient/environmental noise and make it harder to hear sirens/etc. than just having loud music from the speakers? I can't say I've noticed a difference.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.
And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.
At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.
I decided I wanted nothing to do with something more sophisticated than an iTrip or an aux jack on my family vacation to DC back in 2010. Whenever I drove to/from college, I'd prepare an on the go playlist on my iPod for the trip, plug in the iTrip, set it to a radio station that wouldn't have much interference, and push play (I hadn't yet gotten into setting radio presets across frequently traveled corridors, and my car's entertainment system consisted of AM, FM1/2, and a cassette tape player). Instead of using that, we instead used my Mom's Civic's USB connection. Big mistake! The car took over complete control over the iPod, its interface was far inferior, and my prepared playlist was completely inaccessible. It took over 30 miles just to figure out how the thing worked and get it to play an album.
Yeah, never again. Plus using things like USB/bluetooth/etc. (basically anything more sophisticated than the analog audio-only connection of an aux jack) has privacy and security implications when you eventually get around to replacing the car, especially since the typical car's software security makes the initial release of Windows XP look like Fort Knox.
Quote from: vdeane on November 04, 2019, 09:28:25 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.
And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.
At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.
I decided I wanted nothing to do with something more sophisticated than an iTrip or an aux jack on my family vacation to DC back in 2010. Whenever I drove to/from college, I'd prepare an on the go playlist on my iPod for the trip, plug in the iTrip, set it to a radio station that wouldn't have much interference, and push play (I hadn't yet gotten into setting radio presets across frequently traveled corridors, and my car's entertainment system consisted of AM, FM1/2, and a cassette tape player). Instead of using that, we instead used my Mom's Civic's USB connection. Big mistake! The car took over complete control over the iPod, its interface was far inferior, and my prepared playlist was completely inaccessible. It took over 30 miles just to figure out how the thing worked and get it to play an album.
Yeah, never again. Plus using things like USB/bluetooth/etc. (basically anything more sophisticated than the analog audio-only connection of an aux jack) has privacy and security implications when you eventually get around to replacing the car, especially since the typical car's software security makes the initial release of Windows XP look like Fort Knox.
I had to look up "iTrip" (had not heard of it). Never found those systems to be either reliable or even sound decent. The aux-tape deck, on the other hand... :)
Your experience with the USB/iOS interface has been largely superseded by Apple Carplay. For us Android users, where Bluetooth was the only option for years, Android Auto is the new interface. I would have to agree that the older USB interfacing system, where each car had a slightly different interface for interacting with an iPhone or iPod, was far from an enjoyable experience. I had an iPhone for one year between the purchase of my 2015 Golf, and the purchase of an Android phone, so I got quite used to the experience in my car. All told, it was fine for me. It kept my phone charged, and all of my playlists and albums (even those from my Apple Music subscription) were all there
and accessible by voice control. The car didn't have an aux port, but I didn't want to fumble around with my phone in my hand while driving anyways, so the Golf's interface kind of had to work. It also kept me from having two cables plugged into my phone (one for audio, another to charge).
With the advent of Carplay/Android Auto, it's a totally new experience. One designed by the phone manufacturers, and it's light years ahead of the USB/iOS interface. Definitely check out a system if you haven't yet. It's not perfect, but (especially for those of us in states where holding a phone is illegal) it works exceptionally well, and is controlled almost entirely by either Siri or the Google Assistant, which are both exceedingly good at what they do (quick and accurate).
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 01, 2019, 05:21:21 PM
Moreover, why is there an incessant need to add technology features that don't improve safety and/or don't enhance the driving experience? I don't need Android Auto. I don't need ventilated seats. I don't need advanced telemetry or faux self-driving modes or even different handling modes. I don't need to integrate my lifestyle into a machine that simply serves as transportation. Then when I want to go and buy a new car instead of buying used beaters every three years, I'm stuck with base prices between $22k and $25k. I'm a single person. I don't want to have to manage a loan beyond what I'm capable of paying off.
Right now I think that there's a donut hole of car buyers who desire a new vehicle out of longevity but are limited by high prices and maybe don't have or can't establish good credit.
Every auto manufacturer (outside of luxury) has a model that is less than $20K. Nissan and Mitsubishi under $15K. They aren't great cars, but the cheapest brand new car available has never been great.
Honda Fit, MSRP $16,190, and is not a bad vehicle at all.
Quote from: DTComposer on November 04, 2019, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 08:19:57 PM
My question is, how does wearing head phones or some sort of head set constitute something unsafe compared to loud music or just talking on a hands free device? ...
... I suppose the thinking is the physical earphone/earbud will block out ambient/environmental noise and make it harder to hear sirens/etc. than just having loud music from the speakers? ...
Yet it's perfectly legal for a deaf person to drive (#JNW). Just another one of those proposals that no politician actually wants to oppose, so it becomes law.
I have difficulty hearing certain voices. My wife's, specifically. The pitch and tone of her voice is hard to hear if there is background noise or if I'm not concentrating on listening to her. My most-uttered word to her is "What?" because if she says something and I'm not expecting her to say something, she'll inevitably have to repeat herself.
When I was doing a lot of traveling, I bought a standard Bluetooth earpiece and found I had trouble hearing her if we were talking when I was driving. It was recommended to me that I get a Sennheiser earpiece, which I did, but it wasn't a whole lot better. Only when I got a set of Bluetooth headphones (a Motorola product) did I find that could easily hear voices during phone calls. But then someone said that many (most) states don't allow the use of headphones that cover both ears.
I don't like hooking my phone up to a vehicle system to charge because it takes over the phone, texts show up on the viewscreen, etc. That's why I always take a lighter plug-in charger when I drive a work vehicle with a touchscreen. I forgot to take one once, had to plug it in to the vehicle's USB port, and didn't like the interaction.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2019, 06:29:43 PM
I have difficulty hearing certain voices. My wife's, specifically. The pitch and tone of her voice is hard to hear if there is background noise...
Every married man on this forum is now cringing at the thought of trying to use that excuse with our own wives. But bravo! for having the guts.
"Have you __________ yet? I asked you to this morning."
"Did you? Sorry, honey, but–because of the pitch and tone of your voice–I have a hard time hearing you."
Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2019, 06:29:43 PM
... or if I'm not concentrating on listening to her.
Oh. Yeah. Well, the truth does come out, doesn't it?
Quote from: kphoger on November 05, 2019, 06:53:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2019, 06:29:43 PM
I have difficulty hearing certain voices. My wife's, specifically. The pitch and tone of her voice is hard to hear if there is background noise...
Every married man on this forum is now cringing at the thought of trying to use that excuse with our own wives. But bravo! for having the guts.
I'm not married, and also cringing.
Not sure what to say, except, uh, not that.
Quote from: webny99 on November 05, 2019, 08:05:59 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 05, 2019, 06:53:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2019, 06:29:43 PM
I have difficulty hearing certain voices. My wife's, specifically. The pitch and tone of her voice is hard to hear if there is background noise...
Every married man on this forum is now cringing at the thought of trying to use that excuse with our own wives. But bravo! for having the guts.
I'm not married, and also cringing.
Not sure what to say, except, uh, not that.
I say it to my wife all the time, she has a tendency to turn away from me and keep talking even when she is halfway across the house. I usually just yell back "I can't hear you" which has varying degrees of success in bringing the conversation into audible clarity.
More topical, in the car it's hard sometimes because she'll be in the middle of sentence and will suddenly turn away making hard to understand on Bluetooth. For some reason when she calls me from her Bluetooth in the car the voice is drowned out by the background road noise. I've found that Apple ear buds pick up her voice better than the blue tooth for some reason, but that also works on normal phone calls too.
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2019, 02:04:56 PM
My mother's main argument against power windows (I don't believe she ever owned a car equipped with such) was if one found themselves in a lake or a pond. With crank windows, one can simply roll the window(s) down as a means of escaping without carrying a supplemental tool to smash the glass.
It's worth noting that the Mythbusters were able to operate the power windows in a submerged car.
Quote from: Duke87 on November 05, 2019, 09:18:49 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2019, 02:04:56 PM
My mother's main argument against power windows (I don't believe she ever owned a car equipped with such) was if one found themselves in a lake or a pond. With crank windows, one can simply roll the window(s) down as a means of escaping without carrying a supplemental tool to smash the glass.
It's worth noting that the Mythbusters were able to operate the power windows in a submerged car.
Didn't turn out to be that because the circuits and wires were isolated that didn't shift out?
Quote from: hbelkins on November 05, 2019, 06:29:43 PM
I have difficulty hearing certain voices. My wife's, specifically. The pitch and tone of her voice is hard to hear if there is background noise or if I'm not concentrating on listening to her.
That's your story and you're sticking to it, eh?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 05, 2019, 09:42:33 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 05, 2019, 09:18:49 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2019, 02:04:56 PM
My mother's main argument against power windows (I don't believe she ever owned a car equipped with such) was if one found themselves in a lake or a pond. With crank windows, one can simply roll the window(s) down as a means of escaping without carrying a supplemental tool to smash the glass.
It's worth noting that the Mythbusters were able to operate the power windows in a submerged car.
Didn’t turn out to be that because the circuits and wires were isolated that didn’t shift out?
It takes about a 30-60 for water to entirely intrude on the electrical systems of a car; having the windows up actually affords you more time to react before it's diver down!
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?
Someone steals the $2 air freshener. Seriously, the bigger problem is the non-moving vehicle at that point, so one gets a jumpstart. Yes, I've had cars with window cranks - but rolling down more than the driver's window is a bit of a nuisance.
Power windows have been out for over 50 years now...what sort of steampunk forum did I stumble onto today?
Some of you all get it concerning not being able to hear. If I am not expecting her to say something, and not looking directly at her when she says it, and the TV is on or something else is making noise, odds are I'm not going to comprehend what she's saying.
I have a male co-worker whose voice is soft enough that I can't always hear him, either, if there's a lot of background noise.
Quote from: formulanone on November 06, 2019, 10:48:07 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?
Someone steals the $2 air freshener. Seriously, the bigger problem is the non-moving vehicle at that point, so one gets a jumpstart. Yes, I've had cars with window cranks - but rolling down more than the driver's window is a bit of a nuisance.
I'm thinking more about rain blowing in before you can get the car jumped, or the power window motor repaired, but vehicle security would be an issue. Not just for theft, but vandalism.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 06, 2019, 12:33:19 PM
Some of you all get it concerning not being able to hear. If I am not expecting her to say something, and not looking directly at her when she says it, and the TV is on or something else is making noise, odds are I'm not going to comprehend what she's saying.
I have a male co-worker whose voice is soft enough that I can't always hear him, either, if there's a lot of background noise.
Quote from: formulanone on November 06, 2019, 10:48:07 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?
Someone steals the $2 air freshener. Seriously, the bigger problem is the non-moving vehicle at that point, so one gets a jumpstart. Yes, I've had cars with window cranks - but rolling down more than the driver's window is a bit of a nuisance.
I'm thinking more about rain blowing in before you can get the car jumped, or the power window motor repaired, but vehicle security would be an issue. Not just for theft, but vandalism.
As if manual drives never fail.
Heh. Had to snicker at vdeane not comprehending someone driving a manual shift with manual windows. Welcome to my childhood... :D
Years ago, there was a rather mean Blonde joke about not being able to roll down the car windows.
I have some similar hearing issues as HB, except that I sometimes hear words jumbled or out of order, which I suspect is caused by my being on the spectrum. For instance, my Mom asked me to get her a glass of milk once and I heard water.
Quote from: kalvado on November 06, 2019, 12:36:10 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 06, 2019, 12:33:19 PM
Some of you all get it concerning not being able to hear. If I am not expecting her to say something, and not looking directly at her when she says it, and the TV is on or something else is making noise, odds are I'm not going to comprehend what she's saying.
I have a male co-worker whose voice is soft enough that I can't always hear him, either, if there's a lot of background noise.
Quote from: formulanone on November 06, 2019, 10:48:07 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?
Someone steals the $2 air freshener. Seriously, the bigger problem is the non-moving vehicle at that point, so one gets a jumpstart. Yes, I've had cars with window cranks - but rolling down more than the driver's window is a bit of a nuisance.
I'm thinking more about rain blowing in before you can get the car jumped, or the power window motor repaired, but vehicle security would be an issue. Not just for theft, but vandalism.
As if manual drives never fail.
I've broken a window crank and regulator before; having a car with a frameless window and cranking it while the door was open was entirely my fault. I didn't pop the window out, thankfully!
As to the hearing issues: there's times I get that "mid-level mush" if there's too many similar sounds going around; words sometimes get distorted or effectively canceled out. I have some co-workers like that too. I try to avoid noisy places for meals where there might be conversations and this I usually just wind up being very quiet. And yeah, I'm married and my wife isn't thrilled with that excuse, either.