The Great California Control City Debate

[blawp]

Interstate 210 should have Monrovia as its major control city

[bulkyorled]

I think there's too many cities along the 210 right there to give it any of those. Monrovia only has 2 exits off the 210 anyways. Myrtle & Mountain. Until you get to Rancho Cucamonga the most anyone has is 4 exits. Its really compacted with communities which by that point you might as well just give it San Bernardino

[blawp]

Yeah I know I was kidding

[DTComposer]

OK, here's a crack at some of the major routes, listed as:
From highway**Control Cities**To highway
The use of highway junctions gives approximate locations, which would be locally refined.
I tried to strike a balance between listing important regional destinations and not switching control cities every 10 miles.
Also, just because a city was listed in one direction doesn't mean it had to be listed in the other direction.

I-5 North
Mexico Border**Chula Vista/San Diego**CA-54
CA-54**Downtown San Diego**CA-163
CA-163**Oceanside/Los Angeles**CA-76
CA-76**Santa Ana/Los Angeles**CA-57 —I'm ok with using Anaheim instead of Santa Ana
CA-57**Los Angeles**US-101
US-101**Santa Clarita/Sacramento**CA-126
CA-126**Bakersfield/Sacramento**CA-99
CA-99**San Francisco/Sacramento**I-580
I-580**Stockton/Sacramento**CA-4
CA-4**Sacramento**CA-160
CA-160**Downtown Sacramento**US-50
US-50**Sacramento Airport/Woodland**CA-70
CA-70**Woodland/Redding**CA-113
CA-113**Red Bluff/Redding**CA-36
CA-36**Redding/Portland**CA-44
CA-44**Yreka/Portland**CA-3
CA-3**Medford/Portland**State Line

I-5 South
State Line**Yreka/Sacramento**CA-3
CA-3**Redding/Sacramento**CA-44
CA-44**Red Bluff/Sacramento**CA-36
CA-36**Woodland/Sacramento**CA-113
CA-113**Sacramento Airport/Sacramento**CA-70
CA-70**Sacramento**I-80
I-80**Downtown Sacramento**US-50
US-50**Stockton/Los Angeles**CA-4
CA-4**San Francisco/Los Angeles**I-205
I-205**Los Angeles**CA-99
CA-99**Santa Clarita/Los Angeles**CA-126
CA-126**Los Angeles**I-110
I-110**Santa Ana/San Diego**CA-57 —I'm ok with using Anaheim instead of Santa Ana
CA-57**San Diego**CA-1
CA-1**Oceanside/San Diego**CA-76
CA-76**San Diego**I-8
I-8**Downtown San Diego**CA-163
CA-163**Chula Vista**CA-54
CA-54**International Border**Mexico Border

US-101 North
I-5**Downtown Los Angeles**CA-110
CA-110**Hollywood/Ventura**CA-2
CA-2**Ventura/Santa Barbara**CA-33
CA-33**Santa Barbara/San Francisco**CA-225
CA-225**San Luis Obispo/San Francisco**CA-1
CA-1**Salinas/San Francisco**CA-183
CA-183**San Jose/San Francisco**I-280
I-280**Palo Alto/San Francisco**CA-109
CA-109**San Mateo/San Francisco**CA-92
CA-92**SF Airport/San Francisco**I-380
I-380**San Francisco**I-280
I-280**Downtown San Francisco**I-80
I-80**Golden Gate Bridge**CA-1
CA-1**San Rafael/Santa Rosa**CA-1
CA-1**Santa Rosa/Eureka**CA-12
CA-12**Ukiah/Eureka**CA-253
CA-253**Eureka**CA-255
CA-255**Crescent City/Coos Bay**US-199
US-199**Brookings/Coos Bay**State Line

US-101 South
State Line**Crescent City/Eureka**US-199
US-199**Eureka/San Francisco**CA-255
CA-255**Ukiah/San Francisco**CA-253
CA-253**Santa Rosa/San Francisco**CA-12
CA-12**San Rafael/San Francisco**CA-1
CA-1**San Francisco**CA-1
CA-1**Downtown San Francisco**I-80
I-80**SF Airport/San Jose**I-380
I-380**San Mateo/San Jose**CA-92
CA-92**Palo Alto/San Jose**CA-109
CA-109**San Jose**I-880
I-880**Gilroy/Los Angeles**CA-152
CA-152**Salinas/Monterey**CA-156 — I didn't use Los Angeles here so as not to confuse drivers who want to use CA-152 to I-5
CA-156**Salinas/Los Angeles**CA-183
CA-183**San Luis Obispo/Los Angeles**CA-1
CA-1**Santa Barbara/Los Angeles**CA-225
CA-225**Ventura/Los Angeles**CA-33
CA-33**Los Angeles**CA-27
CA-27**Hollywood/Downtown Los Angeles**CA-2
CA-2**Downtown Los Angeles**I-10
I-10**Santa Ana/San Diego**I-5

I-80 East
US-101**Bay Bridge/Oakland**Bay Bridge
Bay Bridge**Oakland**I-880
I-880**Berkeley/Sacramento**CA-13
CA-13**Vallejo/Sacramento**I-780
I-780**Sacramento**US-50
US-50**Roseville/Reno**CA-65
CA-65**Auburn/Reno**CA-49
CA-49**Truckee/Reno**CA-89
CA-89**Reno**State Line

I-80 West
State Line**Truckee/Sacramento**CA-89
CA-89**Auburn/Sacramento**CA-49
CA-49**Roseville/Sacramento**CA-65
CA-65**Sacramento**Bus I-80
Bus-I-80**San Francisco**I-5
I-5**Davis/San Francisco**CA-113
CA-113**San Francisco**I-680
I-680**Vallejo/San Francisco**CA-780
CA-780**Oakland/San Francisco**I-880
I-880**Bay Bridge/San Francisco**Bay Bridge
Bay Bridge**San Francisco**US-101

I-10 East
CA-1**Los Angeles**I-405
I-405**Downtown Los Angeles**I-110
I-110**Santa Ana/San Bernardino**I-5
I-5**San Bernardino**I-5 — this is the overlap section
I-5**El Monte/San Bernardino**I-605
I-605**Pomona/San Bernardino**CA-71
CA-71**Ontario/San Bernardino**CA-83
CA-83**San Bernardino**I-215
I-215**Redlands/Palm Springs**CA-38
CA-38**Palm Springs/Indio**CA-111
CA-111**Indio/Phoenix**CA-86S
CA-86S**Blythe/Phoenix**US-95
US-95**Phoenix**State Line

I-10 West
State Line**Blythe/Los Angeles**US-95
US-95**Indio/Los Angeles**CA-86S
CA-86S**San Bernardino/Los Angeles**I-215
I-215**Ontario/Los Angeles**CA-83
CA-83**Los Angeles**I-5
I-5**Santa Ana/Santa Monica**I-5 — this is the overlap section
I-5**Santa Monica**CA-1

[citrus]

OK, here's a crack at some of the major routes, listed as:
From highway**Control Cities**To highway
The use of highway junctions gives approximate locations, which would be locally refined.
I tried to strike a balance between listing important regional destinations and not switching control cities every 10 miles.
Also, just because a city was listed in one direction doesn't mean it had to be listed in the other direction.

I like this concept. I always thought that a good way to do control cities in CA is to have two: the "last large suburb" within the metro area, and the next city. So from downtown San Diego, the "outer suburbs" would be Oceanside, Escondido, El Cajon, and Chula Vista, and the "next city" would be Los Angeles, Riverside, El Centro [or Yuma?], or Tijuana.

The biggest challenge with control cities in CA, IMO, is the following: there are a lot of freeways that go from one part of a city to another, or from one part of a metro area to another, and most of the time, the "best way" through a metro area changes hourly. I-605 in LA is a good example of this - it doesn't really go anywhere notable, and is mostly useful as a connector for local commuters, or as a sometimes-good route for long-distance traffic to use. (Sometimes when I drive from San Diego to north of LA, a "quick" route involves driving the entire length of 605!)

The other challenge is handling San Francisco/LA traffic. To me, it's silly to list Sacramento and not San Francisco as a control city on I-5 north of LA. San Francisco (actually, the entire Bay Area) is a much bigger destination than Sac. Yes, I-5 doesn't go there, but I'd guess that if you survey the cars heading north through the Grapevine, there are a lot more headed to the Bay Area than Sacramento. (And yes, the quickest route from Gilroy to LA is almost always 152 to 5, and not 101.)

[myosh_tino]

OK, here's a crack at some of the major routes, listed as:
From highway**Control Cities**To highway
The use of highway junctions gives approximate locations, which would be locally refined.
I tried to strike a balance between listing important regional destinations and not switching control cities every 10 miles.
Also, just because a city was listed in one direction doesn't mean it had to be listed in the other direction.

Assuming these control cities are meant to be used on pull through signs, you can eliminate everything east of CA-49 because IIRC, there are no overhead pull through signs on I-80.  I'm pretty sure this condition exists on other highways as well.  Intersecting highways generally use ground-mounted signs where more than one control city tends to clutter the sign.  Other than that, that's a pretty complete list.

[agentsteel53]

Even in Las Vegas I-15 South is Signed as Los Angeles even though I-15 doesn't go to Los Angeles.  Probably dating back to US 91, but also to serve tourist traffic I presume. 

hell, LA is signed on I-40 in Flagstaff, dating back to the US-66 days.  it was signed as far as San Jon, New Mexico (1058 miles or something!) until about 2006.

[english si]

An alternative might be what they do in the UK - put cities not on the route in parentheses:

CA-99
Bakersfield
(Los Angeles)

Did do in the UK - until 1994. Here's a sign that survived (that shouldn't have, given that the A34 was moved to a bypass). Here's a more recent sign and here's a different way of doing it.

I'd argue, however, that LA is on the CA-99 route (just as Crianlarich is on the A84 route, but beyond the end of it; ditto Southampton and the A34). However, if that first sign was still on the A34, I'd have Basingstoke in brackets - or Winchester and Southampton if the sign was correct and said A339 at the top.

[jrouse]

Just make sure that you put the control cities in true order when you post them on a sign.  PLEASE! They do not do this in a few spots in the San Francisco Bay Area.  For instance, on I-80 in Fairfield, at the Air Base Parkway interchange, the eastbound pull through sign says "Sacramento/Vacaville", and westbound it reads "San Francisco/Vallejo".  This scenario also occurs in several locations on I-680 through Walnut Creek, where the pull through signs going southbound read "San Jose/Dublin" and northbound they read "Sacramento/Concord".  And the signs for CA-24 read "Oakland/Lafayette". 

[myosh_tino]

Just make sure that you put the control cities in true order when you post them on a sign.  PLEASE! They do not do this in a few spots in the San Francisco Bay Area.  For instance, on I-80 in Fairfield, at the Air Base Parkway interchange, the eastbound pull through sign says "Sacramento/Vacaville", and westbound it reads "San Francisco/Vallejo".  This scenario also occurs in several locations on I-680 through Walnut Creek, where the pull through signs going southbound read "San Jose/Dublin" and northbound they read "Sacramento/Concord".  And the signs for CA-24 read "Oakland/Lafayette".

Interesting.  So if there are multiple control cities, the closer city gets listed first?  I always thought the "primary" city would be first followed by a "secondary" city, hence the arrangements you gave (Sacramento/Vacaville, San Francisco, Vallejo, San Jose/Dublin, etc).

[TheStranger]

Just make sure that you put the control cities in true order when you post them on a sign.  PLEASE! They do not do this in a few spots in the San Francisco Bay Area.  For instance, on I-80 in Fairfield, at the Air Base Parkway interchange, the eastbound pull through sign says "Sacramento/Vacaville", and westbound it reads "San Francisco/Vallejo".  This scenario also occurs in several locations on I-680 through Walnut Creek, where the pull through signs going southbound read "San Jose/Dublin" and northbound they read "Sacramento/Concord".  And the signs for CA-24 read "Oakland/Lafayette".

Interesting.  So if there are multiple control cities, the closer city gets listed first?  I always thought the "primary" city would be first followed by a "secondary" city, hence the arrangements you gave (Sacramento/Vacaville, San Francisco, Vallejo, San Jose/Dublin, etc).

I'm used to closer-city first, i.e.

"Santa Monica
LAX Airport" on 405

"Vallejo
Sacramento" on 80 east near the MacArthur Maze

"Hayward
Stockton" on 580 east past the MacArthur Maze

"Alameda
San Jose" on 880 south from the MacArthur Maze on

I wonder when that became the standard, as opposed to more-important-destination first.

[DTComposer]

Did do in the UK - until 1994.

Oops. 1994 was the last time I was in the UK, so there you go.

Here's a more recent sign and here's a different way of doing it.

I do like how they put the route number on top of the mileage sign, and can list more than three cities.

[national highway 1]

Here's a more recent sign and here's a different way of doing it.

I do like how they put the route number on top of the mileage sign, and can list more than three cities.

Also a common practice in Australia as depicted here. I don't understand why the US doesn't incorporate their route markers into their mileage signs, or incorporating them into directional signage like this:

[agentsteel53]

the black sign is super awesome.  how many of those are still left in Australia?  I'm guessing they're more prevalent than in the US.

[Scott5114]

An interesting note about "other Desert Cities"–apparently that sign has permeated non-roadgeek culture enough to be used as the title of a Broadway play set in Palm Springs!

[national highway 1]

the black sign is super awesome.  how many of those are still left in Australia?  I'm guessing they're more prevalent than in the US.

They're mainly found in county areas usually off the main highways, if you know where to look.

[mapman]

I'm used to closer-city first, i.e.

"Santa Monica
LAX Airport" on 405

"Vallejo
Sacramento" on 80 east near the MacArthur Maze

"Hayward
Stockton" on 580 east past the MacArthur Maze

"Alameda
San Jose" on 880 south from the MacArthur Maze on

I wonder when that became the standard, as opposed to more-important-destination first.

Maybe it's because that would be the order in which you'd reach them -- e.g. Alameda first, then San Jose.  It's at least consistent with how the mileage signs display the cities (i.e. Alameda is listed above San Jose).

[agentsteel53]

They're mainly found in county areas usually off the main highways, if you know where to look.

I'd better get my ass to Australia before they all vanish! 

any even older standard signs left, than the black sign whose layout matches the later green? I seem to remember a 2002 or so photo somewhere of a surviving white sign, but I do not recall if it is Australia.

[Alps]

They're mainly found in county areas usually off the main highways, if you know where to look.

I'd better get my ass to Australia before they all vanish! 

any even older standard signs left, than the black sign whose layout matches the later green? I seem to remember a 2002 or so photo somewhere of a surviving white sign, but I do not recall if it is Australia.

Over the next month I'm going to chart where all the old signs are and figure out the best path to catch a bunch of them. I've got a few dozen possible old signs bookmarked...

[CenVlyDave]

Route 74 is signed for San Diego?  That one is as odd as Route 120 being signed for San Francisco.

120 W having a control of San Francisco is not too odd when you consider the quick linkage between 120/I-5/I-205 and I-580.

[Interstate Trav]

Route 74 is signed for San Diego?  That one is as odd as Route 120 being signed for San Francisco.

120 W having a control of San Francisco is not too odd when you consider the quick linkage between 120/I-5/I-205 and I-580.

I do agree with that.

[Interstate Trav]

A couple I agree with here, swapping Sacramento with Bakersfield or Santa Ana with Los Angeles.
Or they could even sign Simi Valley/San Fernando for the 118 which I think is only signed once as Simi, North 5 to West 118 is the only one I can recall thats even signed.

Isn't there na overhead sign on 23 North at 118 east that Signs 118 East towards Los Angeles?

I think on 118, it should be

118 East
*23 to 5*  Los Angeles
*5 to 210* Pasadena

118 West
*210 to 23* Simi Valley Moorpark

I wouldn't sign Ventura.

[TheStranger]

Route 74 is signed for San Diego?  That one is as odd as Route 120 being signed for San Francisco.

120 W having a control of San Francisco is not too odd when you consider the quick linkage between 120/I-5/I-205 and I-580.

I do agree with that.

I get the concept, but that's still what, 2-3 mainline switches to get to the destination, and over 4 route numbers?  I think of 120/205/east-west 580 in the same trajectory as 238, not the MacArthur Freeway.

[NE2]

The way I see it, route numbers should not affect control (and other signed) cities. SR 120 should be signed for Frisco whether it's a single number (as was almost true in the days of US 50) or ten.

[hm insulators]

How about CA-99 still using Los Angeles as a control city and US-395 using San Diego as a control city despite the fact neither route reaches said cities? (Even though they did historically.)

I've also always found that I-405 being called the "San Diego Freeway" was a bit misleading.

In the case of the former...it's only a one-number switch now for both of those (99 to 5, 395 to 15).  Not as egregious as, say, Route 120 in Manteca being signed westbound for "San Francisco" (requiring 4 number switches - 120 to 5, 5 to 205, 205 to 580, 580 to 80).

In the latter, the idea I think is that 405 is a bypass route of Los Angeles and Santa Ana, so travelers from up north would take 405 if they were going to San Diego and did not want to pass through LA.

It could be because when I-405 was first drawn on a map (long before it was built), the San Fernando Valley was still pretty rural in spots. The same with Orange County; much of that area was rural well into the 1970s and even 1980s.