Exit Number Signs on CA91

[Neel]

Don't know if anyone else noticed, but if you look at the exit number signs on SR 91 through the Santa Ana Canyon before the Riverside County line, they look like the ones in Nevada, or actually most other states....where the actual exit number is in the much larger font. I noticed this today while driving, specifically for "Lakeview Ave," "Imperial Hwy", and "Weir Canyon Rd." These are the only ones I'm noticed that deviate from the standard California adopted style where all the numbers and letters are the same size and font (and small). Might be just an OC thing?

[myosh_tino]

Don't know if anyone else noticed, but if you look at the exit number signs on SR 91 through the Santa Ana Canyon before the Riverside County line, they look like the ones in Nevada, or actually most other states....where the actual exit number is in the much larger font. I noticed this today while driving, specifically for "Lakeview Ave," "Imperial Hwy", and "Weir Canyon Rd." These are the only ones I'm noticed that deviate from the standard California adopted style where all the numbers and letters are the same size and font (and small). Might be just an OC thing?

Interesting.  While there hasn't been a change in Caltrans' policy on the size of the exit tabs, there's been more than one signing plan that I've seen that features a 30-inch exit tab with 15-inch numerals instead of the standard 24 inches tall tab that has 12-inch numerals.  Here are a couple of mock ups of the Lakeview Avenue sign with the two different sized exit tabs...

30-inch Exit Tab with 15-inch Numerals...


24-inch Exit Tab with 12-inch Numerals...


Note: These may not match what the signs actually look like.  I'm just trying to show the 24 vs 30-inch exit tabs.

[Neel]

Yes..
I guess I should clarify.. I was referring to the exit guide signs (I believe they are called?) sorry, my terminology is not as expert as the others here.

This is the only place I've seen them in CA with the large exit numbers. They also are mounted with two posts as opposed to one to accommodate the larger sign. I actually like these better than the more common ones as these seem to follow FHWA specs. Maybe I can get a pic next time.

[myosh_tino]

Yes..
I guess I should clarify.. I was referring to the exit guide signs (I believe they are called?) sorry, my terminology is not as expert as the others here.

This is the only place I've seen them in CA with the large exit numbers. They also are mounted with two posts as opposed to one to accommodate the larger sign. I actually like these better than the more common ones as these seem to follow FHWA specs. Maybe I can get a pic next time.

Oh wait.  Do you mean this kind of sign...

versus

If so, this is called a "gore point sign".  In fact, the only other place I've seen them is along CA-99 around Fresno and Madera and even then, not every exit has this style of gore point signage.  IIRC, the use of the standard FHWA gore point sign was supposed to be an experiment within Caltrans District 6.  If this type of sign is showing up in Orange County, that could signal that the experiment is expanding.

Edit: Found a Google Street View of a FHWA exit gore sign on southbound CA-99 at the CA-180 exit... https://www.google.com/maps?ll=36.743989,-119.819911&spn=0.000951,0.000907&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=36.743814,-119.819759&panoid=356C3uDVnW1w0Iw9-TSu8Q&cbp=12,170.88,,2,0.9

[Neel]

It is the exit gore sign.. And seems like they replaced the smaller ones that google maps still shows.

Much better IMO, we'll see if more of these start showing up

[myosh_tino]

It is the exit gore sign.. And seems like they replaced the smaller ones that google maps still shows.

Much better IMO, we'll see if more of these start showing up

Hmmm... I have mixed feelings about that.  While the FHWA-standard gore point signs are easier to see because of the larger digits, these signs are bigger than the Caltrans-standard gore point signs so they have to be moved further away from the theoretical gore.  In the case with the experiment in District 6, the FHWA signs had to be moved an additional 250 feet.  Here's a snippit of a signing plan for a project in Fresno...



The Caltrans-standard signs are placed 270 feet from where the white lines diverge forming the tip of the gore point.  The additional 250 feet places the FHWA signs 520 feet from the tip of the gore point.

[roadfro]

From what I make of the drawing, it appears that the existing signs are placed at the edge of the physical gore (270 ft from the theoretical gore), but the new FHWA is being placed 250 feet beyond that physical gore. The FHWA sign isn't that much bigger that it would require a huge lateral offset to push the sign back that far. I think having the original gore sign at the edge of the theoretical gore is a non-recommended standard that is being corrected at the same time.

[myosh_tino]

The FHWA sign isn't that much bigger that it would require a huge lateral offset to push the sign back that far.

That may the be the case for the 1 and 2-digit gore point signs but when you get to the 3-digit or 3-digit plus a suffix, the FHWA signs are significantly wider (90 to 106 inches) than the Caltrans-standard gore signs (48 inches).

[Desert Man]

Should larger signs to make it easier to read help drivers to get around to find an exit, then I'm all for it. The signs on I-10 tend to have the smaller size fonts than CA-91, where Neel noticed the difference. I'm familiar with the Anaheim Hills section of CA-91 and the Newport Freeway in Orange (CA-55), so I seen the larger font size on the exits.

[roadfro]

The FHWA sign isn't that much bigger that it would require a huge lateral offset to push the sign back that far.

That may the be the case for the 1 and 2-digit gore point signs but when you get to the 3-digit or 3-digit plus a suffix, the FHWA signs are significantly wider (90 to 106 inches) than the Caltrans-standard gore signs (48 inches).

So the sign is an extra 5 feet wide. Bigger difference than I thought, but does it still really effect the lateral offset that much? I'm still thinking there is a couple things at work with it.

[OCGuy81]

Hadn't noticed that.  Cruse you! Making me go out driving on the 91!

[Desert Man]

Hadn't noticed that.  Cruse you! Making me go out driving on the 91!

Hey OCGuy81  , I hadn't seen you around the forum for awhile. 

I hadn't been to the OC for awhile as well, but I drove down the I-10 to see the Harlem Globetrotters recently in the new Ontario sports arena. No need to drive the 91 or 57 to attend any sports game now that the rapid growth of the Inland Empire installed a sports arena of its own.

To remain on-topic not all the freeway exit signs are lighted at night (some have 3M glow-design) to make it easier to read for drivers, which is an idea to bring up to Cal-Trans...or make 'em glow. 

[Occidental Tourist]

Curse Caltrans inconsistency!  But it's a better result than earlier efforts on the 91, e.g., wedging very thin exit numbers on old exit signs.