From California Public Utility Commission:
QuoteThe 916 area code is forecasted to use up all its available prefixes by the 1st quarter of 2018. Adding a new area code to the 916 area code region will provide additional prefixes and ensure new telephone numbers are available for the new customers. The telecommunications service providers have proposed to add the new area code using the overlay method.
(text deleted)
On Feb. 9, 2017, the CPUC acted to ensure that phone numbers continue to be available to meet demand in the 916 area code by approving an area code overlay that will provide additional numbering resources while minimizing customer inconvenience. The new area code that will be added to the 916 region is 279.
FULL ARTICLE HERE (http://markholtz.info/916279overlay)
Oh, this will be fun. The 916 area code was one of the three original area codes for California. The last time there was a major change in this area was when a major chunk of Northern California was carved away on November 1st, 1997 and turned into the 530 area code, leaving Sacramento country using 916. I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.
Quote from: ZLoth on February 12, 2017, 11:21:04 AM
I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.
Among my high school graduating class of about 600, I'm probably only one of a handful with a stable phone number for over 35 years. That's because in 1981 I moved to the 703 area code in Virginia, and kept my landline so far (my much newer cellphone number is in the overlay 571 area code). Most of my classmates who stayed in or near my old hometown of Oceanside CA have gone through two area code changes, from 714 to 619 then to 760.
I agree that an overlay makes sense for 916; I don't see how it would be possible to geographically split such a small area.
Now for many larger areas overlays in recent years are being applied inappropriately when geographic splits makes more sense. Here in the Phoenix area we are one of the few major cities that still don't have any overlay codes, since in 1999 area code 602 was geographically split into 602 (most of Phoenix proper as well as a portion of Glendale and a small portion of Tempe), 480 (most of the East Valley, Ahwatukee, and parts of Northwest Phoenix), and 623 (most of the West Valley including most of Glendale and parts of West Phoenix). 480 was supposed to be an overlay code, but there was a lot of opposition to the plan at the time.
Quote from: ZLoth on February 12, 2017, 11:21:04 AM
I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.
That time would be now. Its highly unlikely they'll ever split area codes again, and people moving into the San Fran area will most likely just being their current phone and area code with them.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2017, 12:55:00 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 12, 2017, 11:21:04 AM
I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.
That time would be now. Its highly unlikely they'll ever split area codes again, and people moving into the San Fran area will most likely just being their current phone and area code with them.
10 digit dialing is the norm for most people. I live in Jacksonville FL we are the largest city in the US with 7 digit dialing from what i understand. 904 area code. But my cell phone provider requires 10 digit dialing.
The CMSA also includes 352, 386 and 912 also
When people move most people dont change numbers anymore. No one is phased by a non local number
LGMS428
Yea, when I was young, my phone number here in Appleton, WI started with '414'. 2017 is the 20th anniversary of our current '920' (mainly NE Wisconsin) being split off from it. '262' was split off from 414 a few years later leaving 414 to cover only Milwaukee County and one small suburban area in Waukesha County.
Even though it's not required here (yet), I've done the '10D' dialing thing for all outgoing calls ever since I got my first cell phone in the early 00s - it just keeps things as simple as possible for me.
BTW, when the time does come, 920 will be overlaid - and the number was announced at least ten years ago - '274'.
Mike
Quote from: jwolfer on February 12, 2017, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2017, 12:55:00 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 12, 2017, 11:21:04 AM
I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.
That time would be now. Its highly unlikely they'll ever split area codes again, and people moving into the San Fran area will most likely just being their current phone and area code with them.
10 digit dialing is the norm for most people. I live in Jacksonville FL we are the largest city in the US with 7 digit dialing from what i understand. 904 area code. But my cell phone provider requires 10 digit dialing.
The CMSA also includes 352, 386 and 912 also
When people move most people dont change numbers anymore. No one is phased by a non local number
LGMS428
Metro Milwaukee, WI is still '7D' for local calls within 414 and 262, but '1+10D' for calls that cross the line.
Yea, agreed on the 'move in' thing. Nowadays, when you move in and keep your old cell phone number, it's a big 'meh' :meh: .
Mike
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2017, 12:55:00 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 12, 2017, 11:21:04 AM
I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.
That time would be now. Its highly unlikely they'll ever split area codes again, and people moving into the San Fran area will most likely just being their current phone and area code with them.
Not necessarily. Whenever somebody cancels a phone subscription with the 916 area code, that number becomes available again for a new customer.
Scenario:
You've had a 916 phone number your whole life.
Money is tight, you get behind on your bills, and you cancel your cable & phone subscription for a few months.
Your phone number is released back into the pool.
I move into town, sign up for phone service, and I get your old 916 phone number.
Your tax return comes in, you sign up for phone service again, and you get a 279 phone number.
Result:
The long-time resident has the new area code, while the new transplant has the old area code.
Tulsa (OK), for example, has had a 539 area code overlay since 2011, but there are still plenty of new customers receiving the "old" 918 area code; many of them recently moved into the area. Meanwhile, other long-time Tulsa residents have moved across town to a different rate center (still Tulsa, still in the 918/539 area code boundaries, but a different rate center) and had to get a new phone number; some of them now have the "new" 539 area code, even though they've lived in Tulsa their whole lives.
Quote from: mgk920 on February 13, 2017, 12:08:45 PM
Yea, agreed on the 'move in' thing. Nowadays, when you move in and keep your old cell phone number, it's a big 'meh' :meh: .
This XKCD comic comes to mind:
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cell_number.png)
I don't know if people in the Capital District (518, soon to have an overlay) still change their phone numbers when they move here or if landlines are unusually common, but many people get thrown off by my 585 area code for some reason.
I have recently moved and kept my old cell number, and people are thrown off by that around here.
What exactly are the pros/cons of split vs. overlay? The Twin Cities split from one area code to four over a few years at the end of the 1990s, but northern Wisconsin and its geographically massive 715 recently received a new overlay.
We've had to use 10-digit dialling since 2000, so to me it looks funny now when I see a number written without the area code–quite the change from when I was a kid and we didn't have to dial the area code to call DC or suburban Maryland even though they had different area codes from us.
To answer the query in reply #11, overlays are used because at some point geographic splits simply become too small. Our 703 is a good example of that. It had already been split twice (first to create 804 in the 1970s, then to create 540 in the 1990s) and the second split confined 703 to a very small area. But it was running out of numbers again four years later, so they did the overlay. (My home number and mobile number are 703, dating to 2001 and 1999 respectively, but my Google Voice number is 571.)
An advantage to a split is that you generally do not need to dial the area code for local calls.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 13, 2017, 09:58:50 PM
An advantage to a split is that you generally do not need to dial the area code for local calls.
The key here is "generally". I live in a town that borders where the 203/860 split occurred in 1995 (and each has since been overlain by 475 and 959, respectively). My town became part of 860, while several towns in my local calling area retained 203. To call these towns required 10 digit dialing. By 2001, 10 digit dialing was required everywhere.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 13, 2017, 09:36:14 PM
What exactly are the pros/cons of split vs. overlay? The Twin Cities split from one area code to four over a few years at the end of the 1990s, but northern Wisconsin and its geographically massive 715 recently received a new overlay.
As far as I understand, biggest problem is that some folks are getting upset with their number change. Cannot blame them - that means update to everyone who they deal with, and new marketing materials for business - new business cards, stationary, printed materials, loss of customers on older ads.
Split makes physical routing quite a bit easier - but since most things are digital anyway, that is not a true advantage any more. Another big thing is 7 digit dialing. Most people don't actually dial those numbers any more as phones grow smarter and smarter... I wouldn't expect any splits in foreseeable future. Just not worth it. Unlike splits, overlays are easy on PR: most changes are on service side and are barely noticeable to general public. We're getting a fairly rushed overlay over here (less than a year from first mention to implementation), and looks like nobody really cares.
Heh. It's a sad commentary on modern life that I can't remember my wife's work phone number (I just tap her name on my iPhone or scroll to it on the cordless phones at home) but I could rattle off Luna's phone number without hesitation despite never having done business with Luna, simply because they run so many ads during baseball games.
The overlay thing is another thing that is Chinese to me. In this part of the world we use different prefixes (What you call "area codes") for landlines and cellphones. And the latter aren't tied to a particular geographical area, avoiding the ridiculous thing that if I take a cellphone with a 207 area code number to San Diego, any calls from that phone to a 619 area code number will be local, but the other way round is a non-existent round-trip to Maine (with its long distance tolls)!
Every area code in CA now has (or about to have) an overlay, like 760 has 442 ... which means my neighbors in Palm Springs area could well have a different area code, LOL. Speaking of 916, my thoughts and prayers for the Feather River (like the Yuba City area) after the Oroville Dam emergency.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on February 14, 2017, 04:38:34 AM
The overlay thing is another thing that is Chinese to me. In this part of the world we use different prefixes (What you call "area codes") for landlines and cellphones. And the latter aren't tied to a particular geographical area, avoiding the ridiculous thing that if I take a cellphone with a 207 area code number to San Diego, any calls from that phone to a 619 area code number will be local, but the other way round is a non-existent round-trip to Maine (with its long distance tolls)!
You're a young'in! :)
The local/long distance thing is really from a different era in the US. First off, what I speak of below could vary across the country...but this is generally how it worked. (And I'm just going to skip over party lines and the days when operators connected your phone call, because I wasn't around for that period of time!)
We have to go back to the era of baby-bells in many areas of the country. For me, I was in the Bell Atlantic area. Phone numbers were XXX-YYY-ZZZZ. Phone companies used to provide free calling in a small geographical area, based on exchanges, which was the YYY. Exchanges were randomly assigned...you just had to know which other YYY exchanges were in your local area. You didn't have to dial the XXX area code. You could call YYY exchanges outside your local area, but they were considered local-long distance calls, in which you still only needed 7 digit dialing without the area code, but you would be charged a per-minute rate for those phone calls. Calls outside your area code were long distance. You had a separate company handling those long distance calls, such as AT&T. Those you had to dial 1-XXX-YYY-ZZZZ. And you received a separate bill for them.
In some areas, as 1995hoo mentioned, NoVA and DC had different area codes, but the phone companies considered that specific area as within the local network, so you didn't get charged for those phone calls.
Calling others in the 1970's was actually quite expensive. There weren't too many long-distance phone calls made.
Also, area codes had to have a 0 or 1 in the middle because rotary phones. Cities and other populated areas had a 1, because on rotary phones it didn't take as long to dial a 1. Or a 2. Thus, cities like New York City's area code was 212. Philly was 215. The area with 909 (in California) had the longest dial on a rotary phone...although when they were assigned that number, most people had touch-tone button phones.
As fax machines came online (along with credit card terminals), it started eating up numbers. Frequently, the phone company would split the area code, so that while some people had to change their number, others didn't. Usually the original code was kept for the main cities within the area code; the further-out suburbs and rural areas got the new area code.
Eventually, we started running out of area codes, because there's only so many X0X and X1X numbers out there. So they were able to modernize by allowing nearly any number combination as XXX (some exceptions apply...there's never going to be a 000 or 911 area code, for example). But phone numbers within area codes were given out in groups of exchanges. As companies started applying for numbers, especially with the advent of cell phones, they would be given the 789 exchange within the 428 area code for example. But the problem was that company may only have a few customers. So there were a lot of numbers going unused. That accelerated the use of 'taken' phone numbers...even though many weren't being actually used...which then required more area codes and more splits. (That rule has since changed)
Eventually, the phone companies started allowing overlays. The downside is that it required people within both area codes to enter all 10 digits...and this was when many people used home phones. Sure, there was speed dialing options both on the phone and thru the phone company, but for most people, they had to dial all 10 digits. As cell phones became more popular and more advanced, so did the saving of contacts within the phone. 10 digit dialing wasn't as bad as it used to be.
Eventually, phone companies started allowing the transfer of numbers...both among different companies (which became a huge war among the cell companies to get people to come to their company without the need to get a new phone number), but eventually allowed people to move across the country keeping their same phone number.
And, in a nutshell, that's how we got to where we are today. In fact, phone calls today are down as much as 25% compared to the 80's and 90's because most people text...but that still requires a phone number.
So, looping all the way back to your comment...if they had to start anew today, chances are the area code and exchanges wouldn't be as much of a factor in issuing phone numbers. But, it's the way the system has always operated here, and they're pretty much stuck with it.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on February 14, 2017, 04:38:34 AM
The overlay thing is another thing that is Chinese to me. In this part of the world we use different prefixes (What you call "area codes") for landlines and cellphones. And the latter aren't tied to a particular geographical area, avoiding the ridiculous thing that if I take a cellphone with a 207 area code number to San Diego, any calls from that phone to a 619 area code number will be local, but the other way round is a non-existent round-trip to Maine (with its long distance tolls)!
If you will, having those different prefixes in the same area IS an overlay for me. But as always, it is historical thing.
US historically has slightly different billing approach for cells - instead of Calling Party Pays, US had cell phone owner to pay for connection to base (airtime minutes), so explicitly separating cell/landline was not required. That makes sense if you assume cell owners can afford expense of cell - and so have to pay for that luxury themselves (and early cells were not cheap, if you remember).
Last, but not the least, clear separation between cell and landline is now blurred with IP phones and computer calling apps. And I would hazard to assume that pure landlines with a dedicated wire from switching station to your phone are on their way to extinction. So different prefixes may become a strange artifact for the next generation. With free roaming, though, in a few years area codes may be equally strange thing of the past.
Quote from: kphoger on February 13, 2017, 01:16:27 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2017, 12:55:00 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 12, 2017, 11:21:04 AM
I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.
That time would be now. Its highly unlikely they'll ever split area codes again, and people moving into the San Fran area will most likely just being their current phone and area code with them.
Not necessarily. Whenever somebody cancels a phone subscription with the 916 area code, that number becomes available again for a new customer.
Scenario:
You've had a 916 phone number your whole life.
Money is tight, you get behind on your bills, and you cancel your cable & phone subscription for a few months.
Your phone number is released back into the pool.
I move into town, sign up for phone service, and I get your old 916 phone number.
Your tax return comes in, you sign up for phone service again, and you get a 279 phone number.
Result:
The long-time resident has the new area code, while the new transplant has the old area code.
Tulsa (OK), for example, has had a 539 area code overlay since 2011, but there are still plenty of new customers receiving the "old" 918 area code; many of them recently moved into the area. Meanwhile, other long-time Tulsa residents have moved across town to a different rate center (still Tulsa, still in the 918/539 area code boundaries, but a different rate center) and had to get a new phone number; some of them now have the "new" 539 area code, even though they've lived in Tulsa their whole lives.
The last time I seen an area code change happen in the Sacramento area was 20 years ago when 530 was formed to cover Northern portions of the Sacramento Valley plus Davis, Oroville and Lake Tahoe.
This was around the same time when 650 was formed to cover San Mateo County and San Francisco kept the 415 area code.
But however I'm in Solano county we get people who have cell phones not only registered with a 707 area code (Solano County's designated area code) but we get people getting bay area (area codes 650, 415, 925, and 510) because that's where they got their phones and also some 916 and 530's from Davis and Sacramento mainly because Solano County is a commuter county for both places mentioned here.
Quote from: bing101 on February 14, 2017, 10:24:39 AM
Quote from: kphoger on February 13, 2017, 01:16:27 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2017, 12:55:00 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 12, 2017, 11:21:04 AM
I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.
That time would be now. Its highly unlikely they'll ever split area codes again, and people moving into the San Fran area will most likely just being their current phone and area code with them.
Not necessarily. Whenever somebody cancels a phone subscription with the 916 area code, that number becomes available again for a new customer.
Scenario:
You've had a 916 phone number your whole life.
Money is tight, you get behind on your bills, and you cancel your cable & phone subscription for a few months.
Your phone number is released back into the pool.
I move into town, sign up for phone service, and I get your old 916 phone number.
Your tax return comes in, you sign up for phone service again, and you get a 279 phone number.
Result:
The long-time resident has the new area code, while the new transplant has the old area code.
Tulsa (OK), for example, has had a 539 area code overlay since 2011, but there are still plenty of new customers receiving the "old" 918 area code; many of them recently moved into the area. Meanwhile, other long-time Tulsa residents have moved across town to a different rate center (still Tulsa, still in the 918/539 area code boundaries, but a different rate center) and had to get a new phone number; some of them now have the "new" 539 area code, even though they've lived in Tulsa their whole lives.
The last time I seen an area code change happen in the Sacramento area was 20 years ago when 530 was formed to cover Northern portions of the Sacramento Valley plus Davis, Oroville and Lake Tahoe.
This was around the same time when 650 was formed to cover San Mateo County and San Francisco kept the 415 area code.
But however I'm in Solano county we get people who have cell phones not only registered with a 707 area code (Solano County's designated area code) but we get people getting bay area (area codes 650, 415, 925, and 510) because that's where they got their phones and also some 916 and 530's from Davis and Sacramento mainly because Solano County is a commuter county for both places mentioned here.
I'm not talking about cell phones at all. I have no idea how cell phone numbers are assigned. But, for land lines, rate centers are different from cities. You can no more keep the same land line phone number if you move across the street but cross a rate center boundary than you could keep it if you moved to the other side of the country.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 14, 2017, 08:44:42 AM
As companies started applying for numbers, especially with the advent of cell phones, they would be given the 789 exchange within the 428 area code for example. But the problem was that company may only have a few customers. So there were a lot of numbers going unused. That accelerated the use of 'taken' phone numbers...even though many weren't being actually used...which then required more area codes and more splits. (That rule has since changed)
Are phone numbers still assigned in blocks, though? That was my understanding. I thought they didn't necessarily get the entire 428-789-NNNN exchange, but they would still get the whole range from 428-789-5300 to 428-789-6799 (for example).
Quote from: kphoger on February 14, 2017, 12:59:22 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 14, 2017, 08:44:42 AM
As companies started applying for numbers, especially with the advent of cell phones, they would be given the 789 exchange within the 428 area code for example. But the problem was that company may only have a few customers. So there were a lot of numbers going unused. That accelerated the use of 'taken' phone numbers...even though many weren't being actually used...which then required more area codes and more splits. (That rule has since changed)
Are phone numbers still assigned in blocks, though? That was my understanding. I thought they didn't necessarily get the entire 428-789-NNNN exchange, but they would still get the whole range from 428-789-5300 to 428-789-6799 (for example).
I believe original policy was 10k number allocation - you know, 640kbyte should be enough, and 10 million numbers in area code should be enough..
Problem is that no actual usage reporting exists, and there is no recall/reallocation procedure. You can get a smaller block by now, but a lot of capacity is wasted. Somewhat similar to IP-4 addresses.
And next high-profile issue would be with SSNs, I suspect
Quote from: kalvado on February 14, 2017, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 14, 2017, 12:59:22 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 14, 2017, 08:44:42 AM
As companies started applying for numbers, especially with the advent of cell phones, they would be given the 789 exchange within the 428 area code for example. But the problem was that company may only have a few customers. So there were a lot of numbers going unused. That accelerated the use of 'taken' phone numbers...even though many weren't being actually used...which then required more area codes and more splits. (That rule has since changed)
Are phone numbers still assigned in blocks, though? That was my understanding. I thought they didn't necessarily get the entire 428-789-NNNN exchange, but they would still get the whole range from 428-789-5300 to 428-789-6799 (for example).
I believe original policy was 10k number allocation - you know, 640kbyte should be enough, and 10 million numbers in area code should be enough..
Problem is that no actual usage reporting exists, and there is no recall/reallocation procedure. You can get a smaller block by now, but a lot of capacity is wasted. Somewhat similar to IP-4 addresses.
And next high-profile issue would be with SSNs, I suspect
I believe they assign them in groups of 1,000 now.
Another issue at the time was a fairly undefined world of cell phone companies, with a whole bunch trying to get onto the market. And they all needed to get their own exchanges all over the place.
It's fairly contained right now with the big 4 companies (Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile) and a few smaller ones, so not as many numbers need to be given out. And they do recycle numbers as well.
Quote from: kalvado on February 14, 2017, 01:40:16 PM
there is no recall/reallocation procedure.
What do you mean by that, exactly?
Phone numbers are routinely reallocated in-carrier following cancellation of service. If you cancel your land line service, after a certain amount of time, your phone number is able to be issued to a new customer again. This is standard procedure.
I'm not sure what happens when a port-in number is canceled. When it's ported in, a broadcast is sent to all providers via NPAC to announce that the number is now part of a different network; whether that number upon cancellation is released back to the original carrier or the new carrier, I don't know.
Do you mean to say there's no mechanism by which the FCC/NANPA recalls and reallocates whole blocks of phone numbers? or individual phone numbers?
Quote from: kphoger on February 14, 2017, 02:17:53 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 14, 2017, 01:40:16 PM
there is no recall/reallocation procedure.
What do you mean by that, exactly?
....
Do you mean to say there's no mechanism by which the FCC/NANPA recalls and reallocates whole blocks of phone numbers? or individual phone numbers?
Of course big blocks - or parts their of.
Quote from: kalvado on February 14, 2017, 02:26:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 14, 2017, 02:17:53 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 14, 2017, 01:40:16 PM
there is no recall/reallocation procedure.
What do you mean by that, exactly?
....
Do you mean to say there's no mechanism by which the FCC/NANPA recalls and reallocates whole blocks of phone numbers? or individual phone numbers?
Of course big blocks - or parts their of.
I don't know the technical nature of that stuff, but if a company bought them, they are theirs to keep. If the company is bought out, the numbers are bought by the other company and they can use them. I guess it's theoretically possible for a company to have never issued any numbers to customers and the business simply shuts down...in that case I don't know what arrangements exist for the FCC to take back those numbers and resell them.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 14, 2017, 02:31:00 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 14, 2017, 02:26:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 14, 2017, 02:17:53 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 14, 2017, 01:40:16 PM
there is no recall/reallocation procedure.
What do you mean by that, exactly?
....
Do you mean to say there's no mechanism by which the FCC/NANPA recalls and reallocates whole blocks of phone numbers? or individual phone numbers?
Of course big blocks - or parts their of.
I don't know the technical nature of that stuff, but if a company bought them, they are theirs to keep. If the company is bought out, the numbers are bought by the other company and they can use them. I guess it's theoretically possible for a company to have never issued any numbers to customers and the business simply shuts down...in that case I don't know what arrangements exist for the FCC to take back those numbers and resell them.
And a good question is if numbers are sold, leased or just assigned for use. Even better question - how that worked the day it was introduced 70 years ago, if those records still actually exist and are complete enough to actually trace things. I suspect many things could happen since then. TO make things worse,
I suspect those days nobody actually believed we would run out of numbers - and allocation was planned accordingly...
Quote from: jwolfer on February 12, 2017, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2017, 12:55:00 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 12, 2017, 11:21:04 AM
I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.
That time would be now. Its highly unlikely they'll ever split area codes again, and people moving into the San Fran area will most likely just being their current phone and area code with them.
10 digit dialing is the norm for most people. I live in Jacksonville FL we are the largest city in the US with 7 digit dialing from what i understand. 904 area code. But my cell phone provider requires 10 digit dialing.
The CMSA also includes 352, 386 and 912 also
When people move most people dont change numbers anymore. No one is phased by a non local number
LGMS428
According to the NANPA website 7-digit dialing is still possible for the three Phoenix area codes (602, 480, 623) for calls within the same area code, although it lists 10-digit dialing as permissive. Local calls between any two of the three area codes though require 10-digit dialing.
From what I read somewhere, both 602 and 480 are expected to run out of numbers by the early 2020s, so an overlay is inevitable. Now how the overlay will be implemented remains interesting. Will there be two separate overlay codes, or one single overlay code for both areas? A third possibility would be a boundary extension overlay of 623, erasing 623's boundaries with 602 and 480 and making it an overlay for both. 623 has a lot of spare capacity.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 14, 2017, 06:02:33 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on February 12, 2017, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 12, 2017, 12:55:00 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 12, 2017, 11:21:04 AM
I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.
That time would be now. Its highly unlikely they'll ever split area codes again, and people moving into the San Fran area will most likely just being their current phone and area code with them.
10 digit dialing is the norm for most people. I live in Jacksonville FL we are the largest city in the US with 7 digit dialing from what i understand. 904 area code. But my cell phone provider requires 10 digit dialing.
The CMSA also includes 352, 386 and 912 also
When people move most people dont change numbers anymore. No one is phased by a non local number
LGMS428
According to the NANPA website 7-digit dialing is still possible for the three Phoenix area codes (602, 480, 623) for calls within the same area code, although it lists 10-digit dialing as permissive. Local calls between any two of the three area codes though require 10-digit dialing.
From what I read somewhere, both 602 and 480 are expected to run out of numbers by the early 2020s, so an overlay is inevitable. Now how the overlay will be implemented remains interesting. Will there be two separate overlay codes, or one single overlay code for both areas? A third possibility would be a boundary extension overlay of 623, erasing 623's boundaries with 602 and 480 and making it an overlay for both. 623 has a lot of spare capacity.
Sort of like 321 in Orlando. Its the overlay for 407 near Orlando. But Brevard County is only 321
LGMS428
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 14, 2017, 08:44:42 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on February 14, 2017, 04:38:34 AM
The overlay thing is another thing that is Chinese to me. In this part of the world we use different prefixes (What you call "area codes") for landlines and cellphones. And the latter aren't tied to a particular geographical area, avoiding the ridiculous thing that if I take a cellphone with a 207 area code number to San Diego, any calls from that phone to a 619 area code number will be local, but the other way round is a non-existent round-trip to Maine (with its long distance tolls)!
You're a young'in! :)
The local/long distance thing is really from a different era in the US. First off, what I speak of below could vary across the country...but this is generally how it worked. (And I'm just going to skip over party lines and the days when operators connected your phone call, because I wasn't around for that period of time!)
We have to go back to the era of baby-bells in many areas of the country. For me, I was in the Bell Atlantic area. Phone numbers were XXX-YYY-ZZZZ. Phone companies used to provide free calling in a small geographical area, based on exchanges, which was the YYY. Exchanges were randomly assigned...you just had to know which other YYY exchanges were in your local area. You didn't have to dial the XXX area code. You could call YYY exchanges outside your local area, but they were considered local-long distance calls, in which you still only needed 7 digit dialing without the area code, but you would be charged a per-minute rate for those phone calls. Calls outside your area code were long distance. You had a separate company handling those long distance calls, such as AT&T. Those you had to dial 1-XXX-YYY-ZZZZ. And you received a separate bill for them.
In some areas, as 1995hoo mentioned, NoVA and DC had different area codes, but the phone companies considered that specific area as within the local network, so you didn't get charged for those phone calls.
Calling others in the 1970's was actually quite expensive. There weren't too many long-distance phone calls made.
Also, area codes had to have a 0 or 1 in the middle because rotary phones. Cities and other populated areas had a 1, because on rotary phones it didn't take as long to dial a 1. Or a 2. Thus, cities like New York City's area code was 212. Philly was 215. The area with 909 (in California) had the longest dial on a rotary phone...although when they were assigned that number, most people had touch-tone button phones.
As fax machines came online (along with credit card terminals), it started eating up numbers. Frequently, the phone company would split the area code, so that while some people had to change their number, others didn't. Usually the original code was kept for the main cities within the area code; the further-out suburbs and rural areas got the new area code.
Eventually, we started running out of area codes, because there's only so many X0X and X1X numbers out there. So they were able to modernize by allowing nearly any number combination as XXX (some exceptions apply...there's never going to be a 000 or 911 area code, for example). But phone numbers within area codes were given out in groups of exchanges. As companies started applying for numbers, especially with the advent of cell phones, they would be given the 789 exchange within the 428 area code for example. But the problem was that company may only have a few customers. So there were a lot of numbers going unused. That accelerated the use of 'taken' phone numbers...even though many weren't being actually used...which then required more area codes and more splits. (That rule has since changed)
Eventually, the phone companies started allowing overlays. The downside is that it required people within both area codes to enter all 10 digits...and this was when many people used home phones. Sure, there was speed dialing options both on the phone and thru the phone company, but for most people, they had to dial all 10 digits. As cell phones became more popular and more advanced, so did the saving of contacts within the phone. 10 digit dialing wasn't as bad as it used to be.
Eventually, phone companies started allowing the transfer of numbers...both among different companies (which became a huge war among the cell companies to get people to come to their company without the need to get a new phone number), but eventually allowed people to move across the country keeping their same phone number.
And, in a nutshell, that's how we got to where we are today. In fact, phone calls today are down as much as 25% compared to the 80's and 90's because most people text...but that still requires a phone number.
So, looping all the way back to your comment...if they had to start anew today, chances are the area code and exchanges wouldn't be as much of a factor in issuing phone numbers. But, it's the way the system has always operated here, and they're pretty much stuck with it.
IMO, given the wide spread use of cell phones and the like, having an overlay is far better than having a geographical split. People are getting more and more used to 10digit dialing and it's easier than changing biz card and the like. In this area, I dial 10 digits for all local calls, even within the same area code. Plus, that's the way that all cell phones work across the country.
I live in area code 978, which supposedly has a 351 overlay. I have never seen a 351 area code, not even once.
Quote from: 1 on February 21, 2017, 05:08:59 AM
I live in area code 978, which supposedly has a 351 overlay. I have never seen a 351 area code, not even once.
Overlays by their nature are supposed to happen slowly. No existing number gets changed, only those seeking new numbers will get assigned the overlay. If you live in an area that is running out of numbers, but is not really growing very quickly it will take some time before you see people with those numbers. As far as you know, they could be assigned in a different part of the state
I live in an area with so many codes that it's not a big deal. 214, 430, 469, 682, 817. 903, 940, and 972 all converge in this area, plus 580 across the river in Oklahoma. Not long ago there was only 214 for Dallas and points east, and 817 for Fort Worth and points west.
I suppose in my lifetime they'll run out of area codes and add an 11th digit.
Quote from: Road Hog on February 22, 2017, 04:12:40 AM
I suppose in my lifetime they'll run out of area codes and add an 11th digit.
The middle digit of an area code is never 9 as that is a placeholder for a future 4-digit area code and 9 would be added as the second digit to existing area codes. That is 212 would become 2912 for example. Then when the transition is over, other area codes would appear.
Maybe we'll all have really long numbers like 01189998819991197253.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWc3WY3fuZU
Quote from: vdeane on February 22, 2017, 01:27:34 PM
really long numbers like 01189998819991197253.
Not having watched the video, it looks to me like international dialing. I already have a couple of phone numbers only 4 digits shorter than that one programmed into my phone.
01152144247536## (last two digits removed to preserve his privacy) is one of them.
011 = International dialing from the USA
52 = Country code for México
1 = Required for dialing a Mexican cell phone
442 = Area code for parts of Querétaro and Guanajuato
475 = Local series for the city of Querétaro
36## = Local number
That same number as dialed long-distance within México requires dialing 14 digits, even though the number itself is only 10 digits long. We're rather fortunate here in the US, that we hardly ever have to dial any extra digits than just a single 1- when placing a call.
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2017, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 22, 2017, 01:27:34 PM
really long numbers like 01189998819991197253.
Not having watched the video, it looks to me like international dialing. I already have a couple of phone numbers only 4 digits shorter than that one programmed into my phone.
01152144247536## (last two digits removed to preserve his privacy) is one of them.
011 = International dialing from the USA
52 = Country code for México
1 = Required for dialing a Mexican cell phone
442 = Area code for parts of Querétaro and Guanajuato
475 = Local series for the city of Querétaro
36## = Local number
That same number as dialed long-distance within México requires dialing 14 digits, even though the number itself is only 10 digits long. We're rather fortunate here in the US, that we hardly ever have to dial any extra digits than just a single 1- when placing a call.
And often we don't have to dial the 1 either. I don't think I have 1 programmed for any number in my cell phone. Using my house phone, which I rarely do, I don't think I've hit the 1 either.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 22, 2017, 02:05:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2017, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 22, 2017, 01:27:34 PM
really long numbers like 01189998819991197253.
Not having watched the video, it looks to me like international dialing. I already have a couple of phone numbers only 4 digits shorter than that one programmed into my phone.
01152144247536## (last two digits removed to preserve his privacy) is one of them.
011 = International dialing from the USA
52 = Country code for México
1 = Required for dialing a Mexican cell phone
442 = Area code for parts of Querétaro and Guanajuato
475 = Local series for the city of Querétaro
36## = Local number
That same number as dialed long-distance within México requires dialing 14 digits, even though the number itself is only 10 digits long. We're rather fortunate here in the US, that we hardly ever have to dial any extra digits than just a single 1- when placing a call.
And often we don't have to dial the 1 either. I don't think I have 1 programmed for any number in my cell phone. Using my house phone, which I rarely do, I don't think I've hit the 1 either.
A 1- should still be required for landline calls, but not for cell phones. At least, that's the way it works around here. Your landline phone company still needs to recognize the number you're dialing as out-of-area.
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2017, 01:50:00 PM
Not having watched the video, it looks to me like international dialing. I already have a couple of phone numbers only 4 digits shorter than that one programmed into my phone.
01152144247536## (last two digits removed to preserve his privacy) is one of them.
011 = International dialing from the USA
52 = Country code for México
1 = Required for dialing a Mexican cell phone
442 = Area code for parts of Querétaro and Guanajuato
475 = Local series for the city of Querétaro
36## = Local number
That same number as dialed long-distance within México requires dialing 14 digits, even though the number itself is only 10 digits long. We're rather fortunate here in the US, that we hardly ever have to dial any extra digits than just a single 1- when placing a call.
If I was to dial that same number from here, I'd have to dial one digit less :sombrero: - the international dialing code from Spain is 00 instead of 011.
Of Arizona's area codes, 480 (Phoenix East Valley) is expected to reach exhaustion in 4Q 2020, 602 (most of Phoenix proper and northeastern Glendale) in 1Q 2022, and 520 (Southern Arizona) in 4Q 2029. 623 (Phoenix West Valley) and 928 (most of rural Arizona) currently do not have expected exhaustion dates, since they have a lot of spare capacity.
I expect both 480 and 602 will be overlaid, although the overlay may only cover the 480 area initially. However, we can't rule out the boundary extension idea of 623, since it has a lot of spare capacity.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 23, 2017, 05:08:26 PM
Of Arizona's area codes, 480 (Phoenix East Valley) is expected to reach exhaustion in 4Q 2020, 602 (most of Phoenix proper and northeastern Glendale) in 1Q 2022, and 520 (Southern Arizona) in 4Q 2029. 623 (Phoenix West Valley) and 928 (most of rural Arizona) currently do not have expected exhaustion dates, since they have a lot of spare capacity.
I expect both 480 and 602 will be overlaid, although the overlay may only cover the 480 area initially. However, we can't rule out the boundary extension idea of 623, since it has a lot of spare capacity.
Or just erase the geographic lines between the codes in the Phoenix metro area.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on February 23, 2017, 10:15:08 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 23, 2017, 05:08:26 PM
Of Arizona's area codes, 480 (Phoenix East Valley) is expected to reach exhaustion in 4Q 2020, 602 (most of Phoenix proper and northeastern Glendale) in 1Q 2022, and 520 (Southern Arizona) in 4Q 2029. 623 (Phoenix West Valley) and 928 (most of rural Arizona) currently do not have expected exhaustion dates, since they have a lot of spare capacity.
I expect both 480 and 602 will be overlaid, although the overlay may only cover the 480 area initially. However, we can't rule out the boundary extension idea of 623, since it has a lot of spare capacity.
Or just erase the geographic lines between the codes in the Phoenix metro area.
Mike
That could work as well, although most new number assignments would probably be 623 numbers anyway since it has far more spare capacity than 480 or 602.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 24, 2017, 12:05:12 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 23, 2017, 10:15:08 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 23, 2017, 05:08:26 PM
Of Arizona's area codes, 480 (Phoenix East Valley) is expected to reach exhaustion in 4Q 2020, 602 (most of Phoenix proper and northeastern Glendale) in 1Q 2022, and 520 (Southern Arizona) in 4Q 2029. 623 (Phoenix West Valley) and 928 (most of rural Arizona) currently do not have expected exhaustion dates, since they have a lot of spare capacity.
I expect both 480 and 602 will be overlaid, although the overlay may only cover the 480 area initially. However, we can't rule out the boundary extension idea of 623, since it has a lot of spare capacity.
Or just erase the geographic lines between the codes in the Phoenix metro area.
Mike
That could work as well, although most new number assignments would probably be 623 numbers anyway since it has far more spare capacity than 480 or 602.
I like that idea as well. At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area. If all existing area codes within a metropolitan area can become interchangeable we can more efficiently assign phone exchanges and prolong the time when we run out of area codes altogether.,
Quote from: mrsman on March 21, 2017, 08:05:35 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 24, 2017, 12:05:12 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 23, 2017, 10:15:08 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 23, 2017, 05:08:26 PM
Of Arizona's area codes, 480 (Phoenix East Valley) is expected to reach exhaustion in 4Q 2020, 602 (most of Phoenix proper and northeastern Glendale) in 1Q 2022, and 520 (Southern Arizona) in 4Q 2029. 623 (Phoenix West Valley) and 928 (most of rural Arizona) currently do not have expected exhaustion dates, since they have a lot of spare capacity.
I expect both 480 and 602 will be overlaid, although the overlay may only cover the 480 area initially. However, we can't rule out the boundary extension idea of 623, since it has a lot of spare capacity.
Or just erase the geographic lines between the codes in the Phoenix metro area.
Mike
That could work as well, although most new number assignments would probably be 623 numbers anyway since it has far more spare capacity than 480 or 602.
I like that idea as well. At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area. If all existing area codes within a metropolitan area can become interchangeable we can more efficiently assign phone exchanges and prolong the time when we run out of area codes altogether.,
True, since I have seen many people who live in the East Valley who have 602 cell phone numbers.
I really wonder why 623 is underutilized though. Is it considered less desirable? I know in the past that 480 was considered desirable due to it being Scottsdale's area code, and the 480 area is one of the highest income areas in the nation. While 623 does include some undesirable areas such as parts of Maryvale and south Glendale, there are some desirable areas in 623 as well such as Peoria, Surprise, Goodyear, and Litchfield Park as well.
Quote from: mrsman on March 21, 2017, 08:05:35 PM
At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area.
Except that, for every single land-line number, the area code very much still
does denote an area.
Quote from: kphoger on March 22, 2017, 11:01:03 AM
Quote from: mrsman on March 21, 2017, 08:05:35 PM
At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area.
Except that, for every single land-line number, the area code very much still does denote an area.
And there are more and more landlines working over IP protocol, where physical location of the phone is only that important.
I suspect dedicated phone lines would become too expensive to support in foreseeable future - maintaining highr capacity fiber costs a bit more for much more capabilities.
I suspect area codes would go same way as central office exchange codes (official name for 3 digits in the middle, xxx-XXX-xxxx), and would just become 3 digits of a long number.
Quote from: kalvado on March 22, 2017, 11:31:34 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 22, 2017, 11:01:03 AM
Quote from: mrsman on March 21, 2017, 08:05:35 PM
At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area.
Except that, for every single land-line number, the area code very much still does denote an area.
And there are more and more landlines working over IP protocol, where physical location of the phone is only that important.
I suspect dedicated phone lines would become too expensive to support in foreseeable future - maintaining highr capacity fiber costs a bit more for much more capabilities.
I suspect area codes would go same way as central office exchange codes (official name for 3 digits in the middle, xxx-XXX-xxxx), and would just become 3 digits of a long number.
In areas of NJ that were hit hard by Hurricane Sandy & other storms, Verizon has been very reluctant to replace wiring for landlines in extremely low-populated areas. This, of course, infuriates the older population that don't see a need for cell phones, who then call their local officials, who then yell at Verizon. We are talking about a very small minority. Verizon certainly doesn't want to replace expensive lines for very few people.
I haven't followed the situation very closely, but I don't think Verizon has to provide such lines. In reality they just need to appease these few people that are complaining, even if it's giving them a free phone. Of course, these oldtimers don't like change so I'm sure they won't be very accepting of such an offer.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 22, 2017, 11:54:49 AM
Quote from: kalvado on March 22, 2017, 11:31:34 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 22, 2017, 11:01:03 AM
Quote from: mrsman on March 21, 2017, 08:05:35 PM
At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area.
Except that, for every single land-line number, the area code very much still does denote an area.
And there are more and more landlines working over IP protocol, where physical location of the phone is only that important.
I suspect dedicated phone lines would become too expensive to support in foreseeable future - maintaining highr capacity fiber costs a bit more for much more capabilities.
I suspect area codes would go same way as central office exchange codes (official name for 3 digits in the middle, xxx-XXX-xxxx), and would just become 3 digits of a long number.
In areas of NJ that were hit hard by Hurricane Sandy & other storms, Verizon has been very reluctant to replace wiring for landlines in extremely low-populated areas. This, of course, infuriates the older population that don't see a need for cell phones, who then call their local officials, who then yell at Verizon. We are talking about a very small minority. Verizon certainly doesn't want to replace expensive lines for very few people.
I haven't followed the situation very closely, but I don't think Verizon has to provide such lines. In reality they just need to appease these few people that are complaining, even if it's giving them a free phone. Of course, these oldtimers don't like change so I'm sure they won't be very accepting of such an offer.
Well, it is only that difficult to have a cell phone repacked into an old style body - even with rotary dial, if anyone would love to use that. Running antenna outside is also an option for those scared of "radiation". Signal availability in remote areas is another question - although I can see Verizon being more willing to install single tower as opposed to 20 landline cables. Big advantage of landlines is that they do exist... until they fail.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 22, 2017, 11:54:49 AM
In areas of NJ that were hit hard by Hurricane Sandy & other storms, Verizon has been very reluctant to replace wiring for landlines in extremely low-populated areas. This, of course, infuriates the older population that don't see a need for cell phones, who then call their local officials, who then yell at Verizon. We are talking about a very small minority. Verizon certainly doesn't want to replace expensive lines for very few people.
I haven't followed the situation very closely, but I don't think Verizon has to provide such lines. In reality they just need to appease these few people that are complaining, even if it's giving them a free phone. Of course, these oldtimers don't like change so I'm sure they won't be very accepting of such an offer.
Does Verizon offer DSL internet in that area as well? If so, then it's not just phone service that would be affected.
I should also point out that, especially pertinent to the elderly, other services like Lifeline and home security require being tied into house phone wiring.
Quote from: kphoger on March 22, 2017, 12:46:35 PM
I should also point out that, especially pertinent to the elderly, other services like Lifeline and home security require being tied into house phone wiring.
This story mentions the issue...and many of the concerns mentioned: http://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2013/07/after_sandy_soaked_the_phone_lines_mantoloking_is_going_wireless.html
And per the story, I did state in error that the companies don't have to provide the lines...apparently they do. But they really don't want to, and are working with the public utility commissions on that.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 22, 2017, 12:59:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 22, 2017, 12:46:35 PM
I should also point out that, especially pertinent to the elderly, other services like Lifeline and home security require being tied into house phone wiring.
This story mentions the issue...and many of the concerns mentioned: http://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2013/07/after_sandy_soaked_the_phone_lines_mantoloking_is_going_wireless.html
And per the story, I did state in error that the companies don't have to provide the lines...apparently they do. But they really don't want to, and are working with the public utility commissions on that.
I understand where Verizon is coming from. I work for a cable/internet/phone company, in fact, and I know full well that landline phone service is often only purchased because it's thrown in as part of a discount (at my company, that discount is usually a free installation). The need for landline phone service is definitely much less than a couple of decades ago, and there's certainly no denying that fact. But I find it crappy that Verizon would leave people in the lurch because they don't like the cost of replacing hurricane-damaged infrastructure in a hurricane-prone area. Why, after all, did they enter the market in that area in the first place?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 22, 2017, 12:59:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 22, 2017, 12:46:35 PM
I should also point out that, especially pertinent to the elderly, other services like Lifeline and home security require being tied into house phone wiring.
This story mentions the issue...and many of the concerns mentioned: http://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2013/07/after_sandy_soaked_the_phone_lines_mantoloking_is_going_wireless.html
And per the story, I did state in error that the companies don't have to provide the lines...apparently they do. But they really don't want to, and are working with the public utility commissions on that.
While some good point, story feels quite biased - well, like any other news these days.
No credit card access due to landline problems? Verizon offeres a cell adapter? OK, processing cards over the cell datalink has been an option for a while, and it is not that expensive. Someone doesn't trust COmcast?... well, that is certainly a good reason for regulations!
Apparently there are some situations where landline is a genuine concern, but working that out - as opposed to forcing providers to invest in outdated technology - seems like a better option.
Quote from: kphoger on March 22, 2017, 01:42:41 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 22, 2017, 12:59:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 22, 2017, 12:46:35 PM
I should also point out that, especially pertinent to the elderly, other services like Lifeline and home security require being tied into house phone wiring.
This story mentions the issue...and many of the concerns mentioned: http://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2013/07/after_sandy_soaked_the_phone_lines_mantoloking_is_going_wireless.html
And per the story, I did state in error that the companies don't have to provide the lines...apparently they do. But they really don't want to, and are working with the public utility commissions on that.
I understand where Verizon is coming from. I work for a cable/internet/phone company, in fact, and I know full well that landline phone service is often only purchased because it's thrown in as part of a discount (at my company, that discount is usually a free installation). The need for landline phone service is definitely much less than a couple of decades ago, and there's certainly no denying that fact. But I find it crappy that Verizon would leave people in the lurch because they don't like the cost of replacing hurricane-damaged infrastructure in a hurricane-prone area. Why, after all, did they enter the market in that area in the first place?
I wouldn't call NJ very hurricane-prone area...
As for entering - that was a while ago, most likely they had service in the state and were strongarmed into providing service to each and every location... Which wasn't that bad due to revenue from easier locations which no longer bring that revenue. Besides, price of copper went up quite a bit over time, and cost of copper cables becomes a showstopper for many applications. Once again, not a big issue if the cable is already there - but replacement may cost a fortune...
Quote from: kalvado on March 22, 2017, 01:53:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 22, 2017, 01:42:41 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 22, 2017, 12:59:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 22, 2017, 12:46:35 PM
I should also point out that, especially pertinent to the elderly, other services like Lifeline and home security require being tied into house phone wiring.
This story mentions the issue...and many of the concerns mentioned: http://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2013/07/after_sandy_soaked_the_phone_lines_mantoloking_is_going_wireless.html
And per the story, I did state in error that the companies don't have to provide the lines...apparently they do. But they really don't want to, and are working with the public utility commissions on that.
I understand where Verizon is coming from. I work for a cable/internet/phone company, in fact, and I know full well that landline phone service is often only purchased because it's thrown in as part of a discount (at my company, that discount is usually a free installation). The need for landline phone service is definitely much less than a couple of decades ago, and there's certainly no denying that fact. But I find it crappy that Verizon would leave people in the lurch because they don't like the cost of replacing hurricane-damaged infrastructure in a hurricane-prone area. Why, after all, did they enter the market in that area in the first place?
I wouldn't call NJ very hurricane-prone area...
As for entering - that was a while ago, most likely they had service in the state and were strongarmed into providing service to each and every location... Which wasn't that bad due to revenue from easier locations which no longer bring that revenue. Besides, price of copper went up quite a bit over time, and cost of copper cables becomes a showstopper for many applications. Once again, not a big issue if the cable is already there - but replacement may cost a fortune...
Although hurricanes are not as common as places like NC or FL... Nee Jersey, especially along the coast has lots of nor'easters whixh can rival hurricanes in destruction.. And the risk for hurricanes is always there
LGMS428
I don't think damages from Nor'easters rival hurricanes.