Full service vs. Self Serve.

[agentsteel53]

What's the difference between automated and self-service?

self-service has an on-site attendant, so you can pay with cash or credit card inside if you choose to do so. 

automated is basically a vending machine - swipe card, pump gas, go.

[KEK Inc.]

Oregon mandates full service, and it's a pain in the ass.  My dad usually wants plus gas, but they either put unleaded or super.    

Since I'm not old enough to have a credit card yet, it's pointless for me, since I still have to go to the cashier and pay half the time, if I pump in Oregon.

[BigMattFromTexas]

If someone gave me a $1.00 tip I'd be considering punching them in the face. If someone gave me a $2.00 tip I'd be considering giving it back. I don't do small tips. I know maybe I should be happy I get any money. But I'm not like that. And that's why I don't work at a full-service gas station. Heh heh.
BigMatt

[deathtopumpkins]

I am 100% with corco on this. In addition to the 3-4 minutes extra spent at the gas pump waiting for the attendant, I've noticed that there are usually longer lines at gas stations in new Jersey. The last time I was traveling with my Dad and he stopped on the NJTP the lines were horrible even without bad traffic on the road. I have a feeling those lines would shorten or even go away entirely if they went self-serve.

And I don't care if the attendant can't really do anything with my card with me right there watching, I still don't trust them. I don't trust them to swipe my card, I don't trust them to put the gas in my car correctly, I don't trust them to tighten the gas cap properly, and I certainly don't want them to be doing other things (like squeegee-ing my windshield) while the gas is pumping! They need to be at the pump watching it.

Plus I noticed more expensive gas in Jersey than in Delaware or Connecticut last time I drove through.

Regardless of all arguments, however, I will ALWAYS be in favor of pumping my own gas, and will NEVER let someone else do it. Ever. Unless I run out of gas in NJ or something, which shouldn't be a problem as I ALWAYS fill up before I get to it.

BigMatt: I work at a grocery store and carry people's groceries out and put them in their car for them, making minimum wage. And I'm lucky if I make $1 in tips in one day. So I would greatly appreciate a $2 tip, and I'm sure gas station attendants feel the same way.

[allniter89]

I worked at gas stations in the 70's/early 80's, did the whole "good afternnoon, fill er up? then while I was washing the windshield "check under the hood for you?". I dont remember getting tips, I think most people figured I was getting paid anyway, ya, minimum wage, in the 70's what $1.50hr? But I never expected tips, figured I was doing what I was paid to do.
On the full vs self serve question, self serve always!! Full service in my area is almost impossible to find and I can pump my own, thank you. I like to get every drop in I can and dont want gas dripped on my car finish, so only I will use that much care.
edit-- I googled min wage and it went up to $2.00 in '74,  woo hoo, big money!!!! http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_Minimum_wage_in_US_in_1974

[SSOWorld]

I argue against the full-serve laws - if two states ban it on the count of safety - back when the bans were enacted there was no advanced technology to protect stations/drivers - why didn't the rest do so?  and now the argument is about disabled motorists.  Whatev.

Plus I hear you deathtopumpkins on the waiting game - I just went through Jersey on the NJTP and it was annoying to sit in line waiting for gas.  Also the mileage I got from the gas sucked too.  Even with sitting in traffic on the Schuylkill.

[SSOWorld]

I argue against the full-serve laws - if two states ban it on the count of safety - back when the bans were enacted there was no advanced technology to protect stations/drivers - why didn't the rest do so?  and now the argument is about disabled motorists.  Whatev.

Plus I hear you deathtopumpkins on the waiting game - I just went through Jersey on the NJTP last Sunday and it was annoying to sit in line waiting for gas.  Also the mileage I got from the gas sucked too.  Even with sitting in traffic on the Schuylkill.

[Duke87]

I don't understand why you wouldn't trust some guy to swipe your card. He does it in full view of you, right next to your window.

The point is that he's doing something that I feel like I should be the one doing. When you're paranoid like me, that bothers you. 

Also, I don't really think it makes sense that you are wary of letting the attendant 'touch your car' because after all, you (I'm guessing) let mechanics touch your car. It's really not a big deal to just put a pump into a hole.

My car is only a year old. No need for any mechanics to be handling it, and I change my own oil.
But again, the issue is less that someone is touching my car and more that they're touching my car unnecessarily. Any work that I am not qualified to do, I would not mind deferring to a professional on. But I am perfectly qualified to pump gas, so...

My concerns about New Jersey eliminating mandated full-service gasoline are:
{...}
2. jobs. We can debate the type of people that work these attendant jobs and the pay of these attendants etc, but ultimately a job is a job.

The problem is, they're make-work jobs. The owners of the gas stations have no reason to pay people to operate the pumps other than the law. Forcing employers to hire people they don't need ultimately does more harm than it does good because it cuts into their profit margins and forces them to charge higher prices, which in turn means they buy less and their business sells less - a negative impact on the economy.

I've noticed that there are usually longer lines at gas stations in new Jersey. The last time I was traveling with my Dad and he stopped on the NJTP the lines were horrible even without bad traffic on the road. I have a feeling those lines would shorten or even go away entirely if they went self-serve.

Ah yes, never try and get gas on the Turnpike. Those stations never have enough attendants on duty to handle the volume going through them all at full serve.

[deathtopumpkins]

They had every pump open, and our attendant never left our car the whole time, so it seemed to me like they had enough attendants on duty, it was just taking too long to get people through.

[Scott5114]

If someone gave me a $1.00 tip I'd be considering punching them in the face. If someone gave me a $2.00 tip I'd be considering giving it back. I don't do small tips. I know maybe I should be happy I get any money. But I'm not like that. And that's why I don't work at a full-service gas station. Heh heh.
BigMatt

You should be a floor attendant at a casino then. Anything less than a $20 tip is an insult! Our regular high rollers will often tip $100 and often more if they hit more a jackpot for more than $10,000.

[realjd]

And I don't care if the attendant can't really do anything with my card with me right there watching, I still don't trust them. I don't trust them to swipe my card

What do you do at restaurants then? Or do you trust waiters more than gas station attendants?

I don't trust them to put the gas in my car correctly, I don't trust them to tighten the gas cap properly, and I certainly don't want them to be doing other things (like squeegee-ing my windshield) while the gas is pumping! They need to be at the pump watching it.

It's their job to pump gas. They do it thousands of times each day. So why do you assume they're all bad at their job?

[US71]

it's a hassle simply because I do not have the right to refuse it.  In all 50 states I have the right to change my own oil, repair my own car, etc - so why can't I purchase gasoline and fill the car with it myself?

Politics 

[BigMattFromTexas]

Well, that's why I don't work at a dadgum full service gas station. .

And I'm kinda OCD, I don't like people touching anything of mine. I absolutely hate peoples help, unless I'm like about to die. And I think full service would give me a bad feeling about someone else doing what I could do faster on my own.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike full service, I just don't wanna be forced to have them pump my gas. If I had no legs then hey, I'd prolly love full service. But, I have legs. So... I wouldn't do well in NJ, or Oregon.
BigMatt

[agentsteel53]

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike full service, I just don't wanna be forced to have them pump my gas. If I had no legs then hey, I'd prolly love full service. But, I have legs. So... I wouldn't do well in NJ, or Oregon.
BigMatt

the real question is... do you have ARMS AND LEGS??

[BigMattFromTexas]

Yeah. At least I think I do.
BigMatt

[Mr_Northside]

THE QUOTES HERE ARE FROM THE SHEETZ THREAD.  THAT'S WHERE I ORIGINALLY POSTED THIS.

Haha, I pumped gas when I was like 9, dang. It's not that hard. Haha.
BigMatt

Yeah... I'd hate to live in a state that declares that basically says I am too stupid to pump my own gas.

until the gas station cannot afford the overhead, and then, in the absence of being allowed to go self-serve, goes no-serve instead.

Given that the whole state has to abide by this, it doesn't necessarily allow for any other station to get an advantage, except near the state border.

There is a borough in Western PA, Mount Pleasant, that still mandates full-service gas.  Every couple of years there will be an article about people trying to change that, mostly the people that owned gas stations in the town, because they couldn't compete with the self-serve stations just outside of the borough limits.  Every time the town council votes to keep the status quo.
I'm pretty sure (not 100%) that you can't buy gas in the town limits anymore.  (Though I think some of the former stations still do auto service)

[signalman]

I've been laying in the weeds on this topic since it came up, but now I would like to give you a dumb pump jockey's perspective on this....
As a full time gas station manager and attendant in New Jersey it can be intense at times.  My station is located right off of I-80 and we get a lot of out-of-staters passing through.  We get bombarded at times and I can honestly say that me and all of my employees work to the best of our ability.  I'll admit that I don't clean everyone's windows.  Some cars are pretty clean and other times we're too busy.  Some people are assholes too and don't deserve me exerting the extra effort.  It may seem like mindless work at times, and to some degree it is.  But at other times you have to move like lightning and need to be alert.  As I noted, my station is right off I-80 and we get a lot of inner city trash rolling through, especially on the weekend.  

Next off, I'd like to say that I take great offense in people just assuming that I'm some thief and I'm gonna rip you off with your credit or debit card.  I try to be as transparant as possible though.  If you distrust me that much, you can swipe the card yourself, but I must put the gas in, as per state law.  I've said it before and I'll say it again...if you don't like the law, then don't buy gas in New Jersey.  It's that simple.  Don't ask me to break the law, even though you find it foolish.  The law is upheld through the Division of Weights and Measures, controlled on a county level.  There are plain clothed people out and about looking for folks breaking the law.  If they find someone pumping their own gas, both you, the customer, will get fined and so will I for letting you.  Weights and Measures is not funded through the state.  Their only source of income is fines, so they're highly motivated to write them.  I don't know about you all, but I go to work to make money, not spend it, so please adhere to our laws.  

I know lots of places that have scum bags working the pumps that some of you have mentioned, but that's not the case at my place.  As a result, I have a strong regular customer base.  Even those from out-of-state.  I'm not talking about PA commuters either.  (Those who live in the Poconos and work in NJ).  

I assume those high prices you've found in NJ were along the Turnpike or Parkway.  Prices in NJ are almost always lower than neighboring states.  New Jersey's gasoline tax is almost the lowest in the nation at 14.5 cents per gallon.  New York's is like 45 cents, Pennsylvania's is around 40, and Connecticut's is around 45 cents per gallon as well.  If you want to fill up in one of those states before entering NJ, then that's your perogative.  If you think NJ's prices would be even cheaper if we went self serve....guess again.  Another factor that keeps the prices down is lower insurance premiums.  Since there is trained attendants dipensing the fuel and not brain dead John Q. Public, the insurance is cheaper.  I've seen the difference.  My company operates in self serve states and their insurance premiums are almost double what they are at my location.  

As far as top offs go, we don't do that with a credit or debit card.  If the customer is paying cash I'll bring it to the closest quarter increment.  All I carry on my for coin change is quarters.  If the customer has the exact coin change I'll leave it where is it and just give back any applicable paper money as change.  I don't wanna hear any lame excuse that I'm gonna get gas over the side of your car either.  I've never gotten any gas on the side of anyone's car.  Most paying cash that don't want it topped off will just ask for some even dollar amount...$15, $20...whatever.  Lastly, but certainly not least are tips....I do get tipped, however I don't expect to.  Some days i can leave with $15-20 in my pocket.  Other days I don't get any.  Today was a piss poor day....just one measly dollar.  I get offended if the tip is less than a dollar, but they don't have to give me anything.  So with that said, any tip is appreciated.  Sorry if I sound like I'm ranting.  I've just had enough of people bashing New Jersey because of their law with regards to gasoline.

[agentsteel53]

The law is upheld through the Division of Weights and Measures, controlled on a county level.  There are plain clothed people out and about looking for folks breaking the law.  If they find someone pumping their own gas, both you, the customer, will get fined and so will I for letting you.  Weights and Measures is not funded through the state.  Their only source of income is fines, so they're highly motivated to write them.  I don't know about you all, but I go to work to make money, not spend it, so please adhere to our laws.  

can you explain why that law is enforced so harshly?  it's not anything like selling beer to an underage kid, but is enforced as such??

[NJRoadfan]

Since I'm not old enough to have a credit card yet, it's pointless for me, since I still have to go to the cashier and pay half the time, if I pump in Oregon.

Funny, here in NJ cash is tendered by the pump jockey right at your car window. You don't have to enter the mini-mart or even leave your car. Of course NJ gas stations usually don't have mini-marts as a result.

can you explain why that law is enforced so harshly?  it's not anything like selling beer to an underage kid, but is enforced as such??

I haven't personally seen it ever get enforced. I have a car that likes to click off the pump early, so I have had to pump my own gas from time to time and I haven't had any issues. BTW, I have legally pumped gas in NJ, I use the fleet pumps at work all the time and you know there isn't going to be a pump jockey there.

Getting gas late at night is rarely a problem as most stations along major highways are staffed 24/7. Speaking of staff, its rare that you go to a station and see more then 2 people pumping gas. Those 2 people are usually the owners of the station so in theory the price overhead of full serve is a moot point.

Regarding the NJ Turnpike, only out-of-staters buy gas there. Its overpriced (about 20 cents a gallon more then gas is locally here), and you have to wait in line because people are too lazy to exit the Turnpike. If you are heading north, take I-295 up to NJ-73 and get gas when you cross over to the NJTP, plenty of cheap stations there with no wait. Lines are fairly rare at NJ gas stations and FWIW I have waited in line at self serve stations in other states even though they had 10 pumps.

[agentsteel53]

Funny, here in NJ cash is tendered by the pump jockey right at your car window. You don't have to enter the mini-mart or even leave your car. Of course NJ gas stations usually don't have mini-marts as a result.

this is a problem, because I always associate gas stations with minimarts.  I like to get food/gas at the same time as gas.  At least a lot of the small gas stations have a kiosk that sells the basics.  This is especially true for gas stations that also double as service stations - there won't be a mini-mart level of selection but there's always a small variety of food and drink in the front office where you go pay.

Getting gas late at night is rarely a problem as most stations along major highways are staffed 24/7.

this is much more of an Oregon problem than a New Jersey problem.  NJ infrequently approaches rural, while Oregon has vast swaths that are honestly desolate.

Speaking of staff, its rare that you go to a station and see more then 2 people pumping gas. Those 2 people are usually the owners of the station so in theory the price overhead of full serve is a moot point.

then, as a contrapositive, eliminating the need to pump gas will not actually eliminate their jobs.  They can focus on other activities to help the business run. 

FWIW I have waited in line at self serve stations in other states even though they had 10 pumps.

certainly.  Try the last gas station I-5 southbound before the Grapevine on any summer weekend.  20 pumps, and they'd be underequipped if they had 40.

[Michael in Philly]

Perhaps the best reason I can think of to prefer full service is the buying-gas-and-food-in-the-same-trip thing.  Since my pump hand always comes away smelling like gasoline when I've bought gas outside New Jersey, I'm hesitant about eating after doing so.

My stop at Sheetz (see other thread ) Sunday evening:

1)  Pull into Sheetz, craving a chicken cordon bleu sandwich (on ciabatta, a little mayo instead of the mustard, please....)
2)  Note the gas price isn't bad and you'll need it before you get home, so why not here?
3)  Decide to eat before pumping gas, for the reason above.
4)  Find quiet corner of parking lot, go in and get food.
5)  Come out and sit on curb by car.  Enjoy.  (It was a nice evening, bit of a breeze, Sheetz is on a hill, so I didn't mind.)
6)  Go indoors and wash hands, because the sandwich was a little messy.
7)  Come out, pull up to gas pump, and pump.
8)  Go indoors and wash hands again (because you've got some chips left and therefore want clean hands).
9)  Leave.

Would this have taken less time in New Jersey?  I think so....  And it would have cost less.

[agentsteel53]

my stop at Sheetz in 2007 or so:

pull up to pump.
swipe card, start pumping gas.
note food options. 
order hot dog directly from gas pump.
finish pumping gas. 
go inside and get food.
hit the freeway.

this definitely takes less than the average stop for food in other places!

[BigMattFromTexas]

A normal stop at a Town & Country here. Preferably the TCC (Total Car Care) on Sherwood Way in Angelo. Well I don't drive and stuff, but this is what I'd do if I did.

1) Pull up to pump.
2) Insert gas card into pump thing.
3) Get paper towel and start pumping gas.
4) Check oil and fluids under the hood.
5) Grab another paper towel and remove nozzle from tank, put down the hood. Move the car to a parking space
6) Go into the store, use restroom, order a cheeseburger w/ onions, pickles, jalapeños, and lettuce. And an order of fries. Go to fountain drinks area and choose drink.
7) Once I get my food I sit at a table and eat. (Unless I'm in a hurry.)
8.) Once I'm done eating I wash my hands, then go back to car.
9) Once in car, drive away.

Every time I've pumped gas my hand doesn't smell real bad. But I've eaten dirt before, so maybe I'm just weird...
BigMatt

[agentsteel53]

wait, what do you need the second paper towel for?  the first is for the dipstick, then what?

[BigMattFromTexas]

wait, what do you need the second paper towel for?  the first is for the dipstick, then what?

I'm a little OCD. Kinda... I'd use the paper towel for the gas nozzle so my hands wouldn't get all dirty. And I don't like the idea of touching something 1,000s of people have touched before me... I'm weird like that.
BigMatt