Points and Miles

[realjd]

Reading the hotel breakfast thread got me thinking. I travel enough for work and have become a big enough points/miles/status whore that most of my personal travel decisions are based on which travel companies I have status with. For instance, I'll stay at a Hilton-owned hotel (Hampton, HGI, Hilton, Doubletree, Homewood Suites, Embassy Suites) before another brand, even if costs a bit more, simply because I can earn more hhonors points, airline miles, and get another stay on my record for status. But at the same time, I get frequent room upgrades, frequent free nights, and other perks like that. For cars (National), this means car upgrades and more frequent free days.

It's even more true for airlines. I'll usually pay a decent amount more for tickets on Delta because of the perks. The first class upgrades alone make it worthwhile, and the other perks like being able to use the priority line at the TSA checkpoints, waived bag fees, free drink coupons, and being able to do same day flight changes without a fee or fare adjustment are also extremely nice.

Are there any other point/status whores here or has nobody else here been brainwashed yet by the loyalty programs?

[Truvelo]

I've been flying to North America on a regular basis now for the last six years. I've always been aware of frequent flyer schemes but I never bothered joining since you need a ridiculously high number of points to make it worthwhile, or so I thought. However this year I read the smallprint in fine detail and realised the points needed actually wasn't the high, especially the number of times I fly each year. So in the summer I joined United's Mileage Plus scheme and since then I've now accrued 20,000 miles. 25,000 miles is enough for elite status which I'll get when I fly to Chicago in a few weeks. This gives benefits such as checking two bags for free, sitting in the economy plus cabin on United flights and earning 1.25 miles for every mile flown. 55,000 miles is enough for a free transatlantic flight. I wished I had joined sooner because I would have had around two free flights by now.

I've also joined Hilton HHonors and earned nearly 1000 United miles through staying at hotels.

I would seriously suggest looking into joining a loyalty scheme even if you were skeptical about the amount of points needed for rewards like I was.

[agentsteel53]

I just buy whatever airfare is cheapest.  So I don't have frequent flier miles with any specific airline.  I just don't fly often enough to make it worthwhile - maybe 8 times a year or so, and likely on at least 5 different airlines, if not 9.

I definitely don't stay in hotels often enough to make that a realistic option.

[J N Winkler]

I am unconvinced.  I don't think Truvelo's scenario would work for me because I make a roundtrip across the Atlantic at most twice a year.  Aside from the opportunity cost inherent in forgone cheaper airfares, frequent-flyer miles can expire and the expiration dates can be readjusted unilaterally by the airline.  This introduces an element of uncertainty and risk which makes frequent-flyer programs difficult to evaluate.

[corco]

I do my best to stick with one chain or one airlines for those reasons, but if the price difference is significant I'm more than happy to deviate.

When I lived in Seattle, I almost exclusively flew Alaska. Now that I'm in Wyoming and fly out of DIA, I almost exclusively fly Frontier (something I intend to continue once I move to Nebraska). I don't fly enough to generate any big perks, but it adds up over time.

With motels, I'm pretty loyal to Wyndham and because I stay in hotels on a fairly frequent basis I'm able to reap those rewards, so the incentive to be loyal is a little bit greater.

Since it's free, I don't see much point in worrying about expiration dates and whatnot. If they expire, so be it. I see no reason not to join (and as such have frequent flyer accounts on just about every major airline), because I've found circumstances can change in a hurry and while I'm not flying much now, I could conceive a situation where I'm flying all the time in six months, and if that does arise I may as well get credit for previous flight (and again, if it expires it's not a big deal- I don't pay any money to join, so there's no harm in being there).

Especially if you're flying internationally- even twice a year you can get Elite status. And if you lose it because the miles expire, so what? You didn't pay any money to get that status. There's no risk- I'd hope people aren't banking on frequent flyer miles working out! Budget to pay cash to fly roundtrip, and if the airline says you can do it for free then that's a nice bonus.

[oscar]

I link my hotel rewards program to my frequent flyer program, to create just enough activity on the latter so my miles balance doesn't expire, even though I rarely fly anywhere.  But it'll probably take awhile to build up my miles balance enough to cash in the miles for air travel (when I do, it's usually D.C. to Anchorage roundtrip, to squeeze the most value out of my miles).  Next time I do that, I'll probably switch my hotel rewards program to earn free nights rather than miles, and let my remaining frequent flyer miles lapse.

[agentsteel53]

the only thing I get frequent-use points for is my credit card, because I charge everything I can to it.  Then I'll just happily take the 2% cash because I've never found a prize incentive that didn't come with so many hooks that it failed to meet my schedule.

For example, 12500 points for a $375 round trip ticket - 3% instead of 2%, but you must:

* fly on a Tuesday that isn't the third Tuesday of the month or President's Day or any of the major holidays of the Shinto religion
* depart from Stapleton and return to Denver International Airport
* choose a flight whose first leg is both northwest and southeast at the same time (but not both)
* use an airline whose name contains five letters, precisely one or four of which must be vowels (for the purposes of this offer, "a" is a consonant)
* cross the Mississippi an odd number of times on your two-leg round-trip flight
* order the fish

so, I'll just take the 2% back, thank you very much.  

[corco]

* depart from Stapleton and return to Denver International Airport

Horrors!

[Scott5114]

* use an airline whose name contains five letters, precisely one or four of which must be vowels (for the purposes of this offer, "a" is a consonant)

Delta?

[agentsteel53]

Delta?

nope, sorry.  Nor Malev, nor Varig.  "a" is a consonant for the purposes of making the terms and conditions impossible to meet.

[realjd]

I link my hotel rewards program to my frequent flyer program, to create just enough activity on the latter so my miles balance doesn't expire, even though I rarely fly anywhere.  But it'll probably take awhile to build up my miles balance enough to cash in the miles for air travel (when I do, it's usually D.C. to Anchorage roundtrip, to squeeze the most value out of my miles).  Next time I do that, I'll probably switch my hotel rewards program to earn free nights rather than miles, and let my remaining frequent flyer miles lapse.

One of the best benefits of Hilton hhonors is that you get points AND miles.

the only thing I get frequent-use points for is my credit card, because I charge everything I can to it.  Then I'll just happily take the 2% cash because I've never found a prize incentive that didn't come with so many hooks that it failed to meet my schedule.

Many of the folks I know use credit cards tied to a specific reward program (like the Delta Amex), but I prefer using my plain old American Express card. I can convert the Amex points to miles if I want, use them to cover part of the bill if I book travel through the Amex travel webiste, or I can do like I did last month and turn them into Home Depot gift cards so I can buy myself things like a brand new grill.

Have I mentioned how awesome first class upgrades are?

[Truvelo]

When you guys talk about first class do you mean domestic flights? I've traveled business class once on a transatlantic flight and you get proper lie flat seats that recline into beds. You also get lounge access at airports, priority check-in lanes, priority boarding, free alcoholic beverages, three checked bags and so on. Is domestic first class as good?

[njroadhorse]

For hotels, my family is loyal to Marriotts not only because we're in their program, but also because they're just damn nice hotels most of the time. :-)

[Truvelo]

Marriotts are indeed nice but they're also pricey. In June when my flight was overbooked I was given a free night's stay at a Marriott. When I got back home I checked their website and the cheapest room I could find was $200. I must admit the room was pristine, the staff were smart and professional and the service was exemplary - and so it better had for what they were charging.

[realjd]

When you guys talk about first class do you mean domestic flights? I've traveled business class once on a transatlantic flight and you get proper lie flat seats that recline into beds. You also get lounge access at airports, priority check-in lanes, priority boarding, free alcoholic beverages, three checked bags and so on. Is domestic first class as good?

Yes, domestic. I very rarely fly international. Delta, my primary airline, offers free space-available FC upgrades on domestic flights for "elite" members. The seats are bigger and more comfortable (but not quite up to int'l business class level), meals are served, and alcohol (beer, wine, liquor) is free. Checked bags are free for FC passengers as well, but if it's a free upgrade due to elite status then checked bags don't cost anything regardless. You do not get lounge access on a domestic FC ticket (upgraded or paid). I am a Sky Club member but I had to pay for that privilege. Essentially, domestic FC is similar to a watered down business class international flight, which is BIG step down from international first class.

The best part, other than the free booze, is the extra leg room and wider seats.

[agentsteel53]

I must admit the room was pristine, the staff were smart and professional and the service was exemplary -

heh, my idea of a smart and professional staff is to know how to give exemplary service: leave me the hell alone.  If I wanted to be disturbed, I'd go to a whorehouse. 

similarly, a pristine room is one that has no other living creatures in it.

[Scott5114]

Delta?

nope, sorry.  Nor Malev, nor Varig.  "a" is a consonant for the purposes of making the terms and conditions impossible to meet.

Delta.

Five letters. One is a vowel. A is a consonant.

[Jim]

I've taken good advantage of the Choice Hotels (Comfort, Quality, Sleep, etc) loyalty program over the last several years.  I can usually stay in a decent Comfort Suites on business and whatever is decent and in the right place when doing personal travel.  It's usually slow to earn points but they run promos pretty frequently that give you a lot of points for things like two separate stays within a given period (maybe 3 months).  I'd guess I've earned 7 or 8 free nights, usually at places in the $80-100 range, in 4-5 years.  I'm in other hotel rewards programs, but have never made it to the point of earning anything.

For airline miles, I pretty much sign up for the program on whatever airline I need to fly.  For a while, I was using Delta regularly and earned a couple of free flights.  But it seemed to me that the "25,000 mile" level award flights became almost nonexistent and only if I wanted to take some ridiculous 3-hop flight with a 6-hour layover somewhere.  No thanks.  Everything decent was a "premium" option or whatever they called it.  I ended up cashing in my remaining miles for some restaurant gift cards and haven't flown Delta since. 

Now, I fly Southwest whenever possible.  I've never earned any free flights or anything through their Rapid Rewards, since they seem to require a certain number of flights within a fixed time and I have never made it.  But the fares are so much lower and the overall experience so much more pleasant, I don't even look at other airlines unless Southwest can't get me where I'm going.  No, they don't have the amenities some other airlines offer but I can check two bags (one of which can be skis + boots), change my flights, know I'm on a 737 and not some little prop plane, and be treated nicely by every person involved, all without any expense beyond the price of the ticket.  Those few times I've had a less than perfect experience on Southwest, I've written to them about it and been sent vouchers for future travel with their response.

[US71]

I belong to Hilton, Holiday Inn, Choice & Wyndham frequent guest clubs, but rarely use them. If I can find a decent independent or a Motel 6, I'll stay there. The "points" I get for staying elsewhere often cost more than the difference.

Stay 10 nights at $60, get a free night. So spend $600, get 10 percent back... roughly $54 a night

Stay 10 nights at Motel 6 and pay roughly $45 a night. Yes, you could argue about the "free" amenities, but the last Super 8 I stayed at had cereal & toast for breakfast. NOT worth the extra moolah.

[corco]

know I'm on a 737 and not some little prop plane

You know- I've never been loyal to Southwest, but that's something I'd never really considered. Sure, I knew that Southwest only flies 737s (and apparently 717s soon, now that they have AirTran, which are small but likely better than CRJs or E190s (I have never been on one, but I guess it's basically a short MD-80)), but the connection that Southwest = 737 and other airlines = some crap regional jet/turboprop. My most frequent flight over the last couple years has been Denver to Boise or Seattle to Boise, and that's usually a  Frontier/Midwest Embraer E190 (which are horrible planes given that it's a newish design- very cramped, tiny overheads)/a couple Delta by Skywest CRJs or a Horizon CRJ or Bombardier Q400, all fairly uncomfortable planes, but on routes that Southwest serves. The 737 alone makes it more comfortable, especially since I usually fly to destinations that Southwest serves but most airlines use smaller aircraft on.

Good call- that makes me want to fly Southwest more often

[agentsteel53]

Delta.

Five letters. One is a vowel. A is a consonant.

nice!  you beat my system because I don't know how to count to two correctly.  For your next challenge, you will defeat a particularly underpowered rock.

[agentsteel53]

Now, I fly Southwest whenever possible. 

I actually dislike Southwest because of the way their boarding works.  Basically, in order to get a decent seat, one has to sign in approximately 23 hours, 59 minutes, and 59.996 seconds before departure time. 

where am I at that time?  Somewhere out on the road - either completely oblivious to the momentous nature of the occasion, or desperately scrambling for signal and cursing the airline for their horrible mobile-phone interface. 

I really need to write a perl script that will forge the packets and do an auto-signin for me.  Then, I will like Southwest significantly more. 

[corco]

I really need to write a perl script that will forge the packets and do an auto-signin for me.  Then, I will like Southwest significantly more.

I do find that annoying- I prefer to just have an assigned seat.

One thing I like(d) about Frontier that stopped being the case about 6 months ago was that if you checked in 24 hours before, you were pretty much guaranteed to be able to get an exit row seat, which made those E190s a LOT more comfortable. I had something like 6 consecutive flights where I got an exit row just by checking in right on time. They had an interim period where you couldn't choose your seat and were assigned the "best available" at checkin (by whose definition?) but that was super unpopular so they went back to letting you choose your seat at check in, but reserving exit rows for elite frequent flyer accounts.

[agentsteel53]

an exit row seat

exit rows are fine, but the very first (bulkhead) row is something up with which I shall not put.  My "personal item" tends to be my camera bag, and I like to have it by my feet in case something worth photographing comes up suddenly.  In the bulkhead row, you cannot keep an item so nakedly in front of your feet, because, you know, in case of turbulence, I'm not going to suddenly hold three thousand dollars of camera equipment very tightly and instead I'll let it fly all over the plane and bonk people on the head.

the last time I flew bulkhead was on an intra-Norway flight.  The crew there was much more accommodating.  They asked me if I wanted to stow my gear, and I told them I'd rather have it available to take photographs out the window.  They were completely understanding and let me skirt regulations.  Now where's that kind of attitude in the US these days??  Oh right, here we have to take our shoes off, just in case someone tries last week's dumbass idea again.

[corco]

Yes! The only time I flew during the Frontier "best available" period I checked in 24 hours ahead thinking I'd get an exit row and was assigned a bulkhead.

That's the worst seat on the plane. You board last so there's no overhead space left and you have to put everything you own in the overhead. It sucks.