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Michigan Notes

Started by MDOTFanFB, October 26, 2012, 08:06:31 PM

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afguy

How Utah's pay-per-mile road funding system could translate in Michigan

QuoteDrivers of hybrid and electric vehicles in Utah have the option to pay about 1 cent per mile driven instead of an annual registration fee.

The state is four years into its pay-per-mile pilot program, which can save some drivers money while also making up for lost gas tax revenue for vehicles that use little or no fuel. Eventually, Utah plans to enroll all vehicles in the program. Michigan is considering a similar user-fee system to replace its gas tax and address its nearly $4 billion annual road funding deficit. Legislators have proposed spending $5 million to test out a voluntary program over a two-year span.

To draw from Utah's experience, the County Road Association of Michigan invited Utah's director of technology & innovation to Michigan to present on the system Wednesday, June 5 in Lansing.

"As transportation changes, Utah asked what's a solution that's sustainable for the long term," said Nathan Lee, who has served the Utah Department of Transportation for more than 23 years.

"For us, our program is an opportunity for people to make choices."

The average Utah driver pays $2,464 per year between gas and fuel taxes (18 cents per gallon federal and 35 cents per gallon state). That's way more than the average annual cost of $850-$955 for EV drivers, according to Utah's DOT.

Michigan drivers pay the same in federal gas tax, and slightly less in state fuel tax (30 cents per gallon). Currently, Utah's road usage charge system is only available to drivers of electric and hybrid vehicles. About 20% of eligible drivers have enrolled, though Lee said that rate has been rising since the 2020 implementation.

All drivers of hybrid or electric vehicles have to pay an additional vehicle registration fee annually, as is the case in Michigan ($155 on top of plate and tab fees). Those that enroll in the usage-fee program forgo that fee and instead pay 1.06 cents per mile.

"If you only drive 6,000 miles per year, you'd pay half of the fee you'd pay at registration," Lee said. "You could drive 15,000 miles before hitting that fee, which is more than what the average driver does." Utah legislators initially planned to expand the program to gas- and diesel-powered vehicles as well by 2032, but Lee said he expects that timeline to be pushed back. With 4.5% of vehicles on the road being electric/hybrid, Lee noted there isn't a significant need to rush it with gas tax still being paid by 95.5% of drivers.

Program participants have the choice to submit a photo of their odometer monthly to report their miles driven to the state, or to allow their vehicle's technology to automatically report miles.

Lee said there's technology available to exclude miles driven outside state lines. Those miles account for about 6.5% of miles driven, according to aggregate level data available to the state.

As of May, Utah stopped differentiating where the miles were driven and allowing drivers to exclude their out-of-state miles. Lee said the tech could be useful down the road, and may be ahead of its time.

"The tech works great, it's just a lot more expensive to collect that information," he said. "If your idea is about how do I get revenue for roads, the last thing you want to do is spend a lot of money collecting information."
https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2024/06/how-utahs-pay-per-mile-road-funding-system-could-translate-in-michigan.html


Flint1979

I drove over the Mackinac Bridge twice yesterday. On the Southbound trip it was a crawl only doing 20 mph, going Northbound I was doing about 32 mph. The Southbound side is the only side open with one lane in each direction.

Flint1979

A gas station at 10 Mile and Middlebelt caught fire from the storms this afternoon in Metro Detroit.

JREwing78

Quote from: michiganguy123 on June 02, 2024, 09:46:27 PMWill M-231 ever get extended? Currently its a pretty useless route that will add minutes to your trip 99 percent of the time
If somehow the legislature and governor manage to pass a massive road funding increase (or the stars and moon align for the Democrats to retake both houses and the White House, resulting in another massive infrastructure windfall), then *maybe* you'll see this happen within your lifetime.

MDOT hasn't exactly been in growth mode in at least 20 years, when M-6 was being built out. The existing M-231 and the US-131 Constantine bypass, and the completion of the US-31 bypass of Benton Harbor are the only new-terrain highways MDOT has built since. Everything else has been a "fix" of something existing, such as the 6-laning of I-94 around Kalamazoo and Jackson.

For locals who know where to cut over to 120th Ave, this isn't a big deal. I presume said locals are also savvy enough to check traffic and make a choice before going too far north on US-31. Who it sucks for are the local landowners who are in limbo until MDOT moves forward with expansion.

JREwing78

Quote from: JREwing78 on June 05, 2024, 08:50:11 PM
Quote from: michiganguy123 on June 02, 2024, 09:46:27 PMWill M-231 ever get extended? Currently its a pretty useless route that will add minutes to your trip 99 percent of the time
If somehow the legislature and governor manage to pass a massive road funding increase (or the stars and moon align for the Democrats to retake both houses and the White House, resulting in another massive infrastructure windfall), then *maybe* you'll see this happen within your lifetime.
*FICTIONAL WARNING* One possible method to make this happen: a tollway.

Specifically, my proposal is for MDOT to designate a M-231 tollway on the current proposed routing. This would allow MDOT to build the road out and break up the current stalemate. It also lets its users pay for the privilege of using it directly.

MDOT could use the tollway as an answer (and excuse) to ground-up rebuild US-31 through Holland as a limited-access tollway. This would vastly improve the utility of the new tollway and take significant infrastructure off MDOT's plate. Once through Holland, the mileage difference to stay on M-231 v.s. taking existing US-31 through Grand Haven is nil, and MDOT could entice users with a 75 mph speed limit.

They could certainly also construct the northern Zeeland bypass as initially proposed - and that would give MDOT an alternate route while rebuilding US-31 through Holland.

Flint1979

Quote from: JREwing78 on June 05, 2024, 08:50:11 PM
Quote from: michiganguy123 on June 02, 2024, 09:46:27 PMWill M-231 ever get extended? Currently its a pretty useless route that will add minutes to your trip 99 percent of the time
If somehow the legislature and governor manage to pass a massive road funding increase (or the stars and moon align for the Democrats to retake both houses and the White House, resulting in another massive infrastructure windfall), then *maybe* you'll see this happen within your lifetime.

MDOT hasn't exactly been in growth mode in at least 20 years, when M-6 was being built out. The existing M-231 and the US-131 Constantine bypass, and the completion of the US-31 bypass of Benton Harbor are the only new-terrain highways MDOT has built since. Everything else has been a "fix" of something existing, such as the 6-laning of I-94 around Kalamazoo and Jackson.

For locals who know where to cut over to 120th Ave, this isn't a big deal. I presume said locals are also savvy enough to check traffic and make a choice before going too far north on US-31. Who it sucks for are the local landowners who are in limbo until MDOT moves forward with expansion.

It'd be useful for me if you were going north on US-31 and wanted to bypass Grand Haven, take a right on New Holland and then a left on 120th, left on M-45, right on M-231 to WB I-96 back to US-31. By doing that you bypass Grand Haven and M-231 was built to be another crossing over the Grand River.

Great Lakes Roads

MDOT has come out with three interchange design options for the I-75/M-102 (8-Mile Road) interchange...


Option 1: Michigan Left


Option 2: SPUI


Option 3: DDI

All of the interchange design options also include adding a 4th lane in each direction on I-75 through the interchange.
-Jay Seaburg

wanderer2575

#1807
^  WOW!  I didn't know MDOT was looking to replace this interchange.

All three options would eliminate the current elevated bridge that carries 8 Mile Road thru traffic, and would instead put all traffic through the signalized intersection.  That kinda hurts.  Interestingly, Option 1 is similar to what was considered for the 8 Mile Road/M-1 (Woodward Avenue) junction a dozen or so years ago, but in that case they decided to keep the existing interchange with the elevated 8 Mile Woodward bridge and instead do a rehabilitation.

KelleyCook

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on June 07, 2024, 01:20:09 AMMDOT has come out with three interchange design options for the I-75/M-102 (8-Mile Road) interchange...

The Really Good news is that — unlike when they redesigned the Eight Mile/Woodward interchange — this time MDOT will be getting rid of the unsightly overpass bridge.  I was at that meeting over a decade ago where everyone that attended wanted to remove the deteriorating fugly bridge coming into Ferndale. That wasn't one of their preferred options, so MDOT didn't listen (they ended up rebuilding it into a nicer looking pointless bridge)

That being said...

A Michigan Left clearly makes the most aesthetic sense for Eight Mile.
(FunFact -- the MUTI debuted only 2 1/2 miles to the west at Livernois. It worked so well, that it soon got pushed to all of the divided highways across Metro Detroit.)

However, they will choose the DDI as it is the current fad in the intersection world.

wanderer2575

Quote from: KelleyCook on June 07, 2024, 09:47:00 AMHowever, they will choose the DDI as it is the current fad in the intersection world.

They'll choose the DDI over the SPUI because the DDI is the less expensive of the two (narrower bridge). 

What I don't like about a DDI in general is that thru traffic proceeds on alternating signal phases, not both directions at the same time, so forget about synchronization with the signals at Dequindre and John R roads.   But I think the Michigan Left option would be its own mess.  AADT of the current ramp from nbd I-75 to wbd M-102 is 4,400.  I don't know how that compares to volume of turning vehicles at other major intersections but it sounds like a heavy volume to force through a Michigan Left.

Flint1979

Quote from: KelleyCook on June 07, 2024, 09:47:00 AM
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on June 07, 2024, 01:20:09 AMMDOT has come out with three interchange design options for the I-75/M-102 (8-Mile Road) interchange...

The Really Good news is that — unlike when they redesigned the Eight Mile/Woodward interchange — this time MDOT will be getting rid of the unsightly overpass bridge.  I was at that meeting over a decade ago where everyone that attended wanted to remove the deteriorating fugly bridge coming into Ferndale. That wasn't one of their preferred options, so MDOT didn't listen (they ended up rebuilding it into a nicer looking pointless bridge)

That being said...

A Michigan Left clearly makes the most aesthetic sense for Eight Mile.
(FunFact -- the MUTI debuted only 2 1/2 miles to the west at Livernois. It worked so well, that it soon got pushed to all of the divided highways across Metro Detroit.)

However, they will choose the DDI as it is the current fad in the intersection world.
Being able to continue along Woodward and not having to interact with any of the Eight Mile traffic is nice. I've taken Woodward into and out of Detroit for years mainly because I enjoy riding on Woodward but often times it's a nice alternate to I-75 and you can make just about every traffic light between Eight Mile and the loop in Pontiac.

vegas1962

From my wholly uneducated viewpoint, I think it's troubling that through-movement on the service drives is eliminated with either the SPUI or the DDI. If I'm using the service drive and need to continue straight through at Eight Mile, it would suck to be required to make a Michigan left onto Eight Mile just to continue on the service drive.  Strictly for that reason, I think the Michigan Left solution would be best, as it's the only one that would continue to allow through traffic on the service drives.

Flint1979

Just a heads up that there is a black bear roaming in the area between Saginaw and Flint. Black bears are common in Michigan but they don't generally trek this far south.

Rothman

Quote from: Flint1979 on June 09, 2024, 10:50:48 AMJust a heads up that there is a black bear roaming in the area between Saginaw and Flint. Black bears are common in Michigan but they don't generally trek this far south.

That's quite a range.  Needle in a haystack odds actually seeing it.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Flint1979

Quote from: Rothman on June 09, 2024, 11:51:58 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 09, 2024, 10:50:48 AMJust a heads up that there is a black bear roaming in the area between Saginaw and Flint. Black bears are common in Michigan but they don't generally trek this far south.

That's quite a range.  Needle in a haystack odds actually seeing it.
I've seen a few black bears but that's always been in the U.P. they do roam in the Northern Lower Peninsula but I haven't seen one in this peninsula not yet anyway. It's been spotted in Bridgeport Township.

Terry Shea

We have black bears just north of Grand Rapids in the Sparta-Rockford area and every once in a while, one will wander down into the city.

Flint1979

I-75 in the Monroe area is closed due to a semi accident near the Otter Creek exit. NB I-75 is backed up from the Otter Creek exit to the Summit Street exit. SB I-75 isn't backed up as bad but both directions are closed between the Otter Creek and Luna Pier exits.

wanderer2575


JREwing78

Quote from: wanderer2575 on June 18, 2024, 03:17:40 PMAnother high-load bridge strike yesterday, this one being the Joy Road overpass at US-23 north of Ann Arbor.

https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/news-outreach/pressreleases/2024/06/18/joy-road-overpass-at-us-23-in-ann-arbor-closed-to-evaluate-high-load-strike-damage

Joy Road's the lowest overpass now between M-14 and I-96, at 14' 1". Southbound, the next lowest is at Grand River Ave at 14' 10". Northbound, the Warren Rd overpass clocks in at 14' 7".

Until these overpasses are replaced, expect the bridge strikes to continue.

JREwing78

Nothing on a MDOT-maintained roadway, however, compares to the frequency that a landmark overpass in Lansing gets hit.

The CN RR overpass on S. Pennsylvania Ave in Lansing (12' 0"), constructed in 1924, got hit THREE separate times by overheight vehicles yesterday. In the past month, it's received at least SIX strikes by overheight vehicles. The adjacent pedestrian overpass also gets its share of hits.

It's prompted the Lansing State Journal to ask if the overpass is still safe - and that was before yesterday's triple-hitter.

The bridge was recently hit at least three times within a month's time: A driver struck the bridge May 11, sheering the top off a semi trailer; a box truck on May 21 almost made it under the bridge but was pinned underneath; and last week, on Tuesday, a large metal shipping container was knocked off a truck and landed in the middle of Pennsylvania Avenue.

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2024/06/16/pennsylvania-avenue-bridge-lansing-inspections-tracking/74103476007/

In the 1990s, the City of Lansing dug the underpass about 6 inches deeper and rebuilt the roadway, putting up light-up warning signs and flashing lights. Because of the immediate vicinity of the Red Cedar river, Lansing can't go any deeper.

CN would need to raise the railroad tracks a minimum 3-4 feet at S. Pennsylvania Ave to provide 15' clearance. They would have about 1 1/2 miles of track to reconstruct on the CN track, and roughly about 1/2-3/4 mile on the Adrian & Blissfield line that intersects it.

Complicating matters is the need to maintain clearance for the Aurelius Rd / Clemens St overpass and the Cedar St overpass, and needing to rebuild the CN bridge over the Red Cedar River. It's also the line that Amtrak's Blue Water line uses to connect Port Huron to Chicago. Suffice it to say that raising the track in this area would be a massive undertaking.

In the meantime, this overpass is begging for someone to mount cameras and record these strikes as they happen, much like the Gregson St overpass in Durham, NC of YouTube fame.

KelleyCook

Quote from: JREwing78 on June 18, 2024, 08:58:54 PMCN would need to raise the railroad tracks a minimum 3-4 feet at S. Pennsylvania Ave to provide 15' clearance. They would have about 1 1/2 miles of track to reconstruct on the CN track, and roughly about 1/2-3/4 mile on the Adrian & Blissfield line that intersects it.

Complicating matters is the need to maintain clearance for the Aurelius Rd / Clemens St overpass and the Cedar St overpass, and needing to rebuild the CN bridge over the Red Cedar River. It's also the line that Amtrak's Blue Water line uses to connect Port Huron to Chicago. Suffice it to say that raising the track in this area would be a massive undertaking.

Well yes...

The real complication of course is the railroads own the railroad bridges and MDOT can't do a thing about it, which is why on MDOT every freeway reconstructions everything will look brand new ( even the old stuff which will be repainted with that "fresh concrete" shade of paint ) except of course for the 1960s era railroad bridges which compared to everything else end up looking even more like 1960s era rusty railroad bridges.

So the obvious solution for the Lansing bridge is to construct a new parallel 15" bridge with parallel tracks, but CN won't because unless the current bridge is structurally damaged by the strikes there is no incentive for them to do so.

However all that being said, I think I'll have my kids take up your suggestion and become youtube stars.

Rothman

MDOT could pay to raise the bridge.  Not the wisest thing to do if the railroad built the bridge over the road...rather than MDOT building a road under a bridge, though.

In any matter, the bridge is safe.  The truck drivers are not.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

JREwing78

WILX-TV ran a story about the Pennsylvania St RR overpass and the three truck strikes on Monday. https://www.wilx.com/2024/06/18/pennsylvania-avenue-bridge-gets-smacked-into-by-trucks-three-times-one-day/

SM-G991U


Flint1979

Saginaw County Sheriff's Department is stepping up their game.

triplemultiplex

Is it some kind of ancient law that makes cop cars in Michigan have those goofy "Barney Fife" lights?  What's the deal with that?
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