Dog crap

[1995hoo]

Let me preface this by saying I do not own a dog. Never have and never will (among many other reasons, our house is not pet-friendly due to electronics and my wife's china).

This morning, however, the following question appeared on another forum I visit and I thought the folks here might have some fun with the issue.

Posted by: Gus Hoo (11433 posts; Joined 5/27/04)
Posted on: 03/31/2014 9:34PM
Subject: Debate in my neighborhood - tossing poop bags in other peoples trash cans?

Yea or Nay?

I say nay - especially when cans are empty on the street...


what say you sabre-ites?

You can find the original discussion at the following link. Note the replies are all below the original post and are accessed by clicking the individual link to each reply. If the reply link has a "**" at the end, it means there's no message beyond the subject line and thus no reason to click.

http://chat.virginia.sportswar.com/message_board/general/2014/March/31/5058803.php

[Molandfreak]

Leave it in their yard if you hate your neighbors that much.

[US 41]

Leave in front of their door.

[signalman]

I'm a dog lover...always had one growing up as a boy.  I'd love to have another one, but my work schedule would not mesh well with owning a dog.  In any case, I feel that if someone chooses to own a dog or dogs then he/she should take the responsibility to properly pick up and dispose of said dog's waste in the owner's trash.  I've dealt with piles of dog poo in my front yard while cutting grass, and it isn't a pleasant experience. Especially if the grass is tall enough where I don't see the poo before I run it over with the lawn mower.

[1995hoo]

I'm a dog lover...always had one growing up as a boy.  I'd love to have another one, but my work schedule would not mesh well with owning a dog.  In any case, I feel that if someone chooses to own a dog or dogs then he/she should take the responsibility to properly pick up and dispose of said dog's waste in the owner's trash.  I've dealt with piles of dog poo in my front yard while cutting grass, and it isn't a pleasant experience. Especially if the grass is tall enough where I don't see the poo before I run it over with the lawn mower.

Heh. My leaf blower converts into a vacuum with a bag (similar to the grass clipping bag on many lawn mowers). The bag hangs from a strap you wear over your shoulder. I unknowingly vacuumed up some dog crap once and the thing essentially vaporized it. Man, that was a miserable stench.

[signalman]

I bet that was nasty.  Something that I'm guessing that you won't repeat.

Galaxy S3

[1995hoo]

I bet that was nasty.  Something that I'm guessing that you won't repeat.

I HOPE never to repeat it. Thing was, I didn't know the dog crap was there under all those leaves. The way the wind blows on our street causes all the leaves to accumulate on our side in November and if we don't manage to clean them up every week, it gets out of control fairly quickly.

[bandit957]

If poo. (Get it?)

[Brandon]

No.  And it isn't OK to leave it on someone else's lawn either.  Take care of your own goddamn dog shit.

[Scott5114]

But Brandon, pooing is cool

[getemngo]

There's nothing unique about dog crap as a waste product. So really, you're asking, "Is it acceptable to put your trash in someone else's trash can?"

I wouldn't, unless you're already paying for their trash pickup.

[corco]

It depends on the situation.

Okay, there's really one situation where I'd feel comfortable doing it, which is basically the situation I'm in now.
In this situation:

1) Residential trash pickup is a flat rate
2) The city issues garbage bins
3) (and most importantly) Garbage bins are put out in the alley for taking out, and everybody leaves their garbage can in the alley and just walks their garbage bags out to them.

In this case, I wouldn't care if somebody put dog shit in my container, because it's not going back into my garage or my property, really. I'd rather they just throw it in there than have to carry it around for the rest of the walk.

Now, in your stereotypical suburban neighborhood where people wheel their garbage cans in and out from the garage, I'd be more reluctant to do so unless it was trash day, simply because I don't want to stink up somebody's garbage can.

I guess it really comes down to where you live- in the community I'm in, you'd be looked at as an asshole if you made people carry dog shit around instead of just throwing it in the nearest waste bin, but I've definitely lived in places where people generally think that garbage cans are private property to be protected at all costs.

Generally, I'm in favor of it, because if you're not having to carry poop around you're more likely to scoop in the first place. I'd rather you clean up the deuce your dog takes in my yard and throw it in the garbage than just leave it in my yard.

[realjd]

There's nothing unique about dog crap as a waste product. So really, you're asking, "Is it acceptable to put your trash in someone else's trash can?"

I wouldn't, unless you're already paying for their trash pickup.

Yes there is. It smells like dog shit. If it's trash day and someone throws dog shit in my trash can after it's already been emptied, my garage would smell like dog shit all week. If someone leaves a candy wrapper or an empty beer can in my trash or recycling after it's been emptied, my garage doesn't smell like dog shit all week.

[J N Winkler]

Okay, there's really one situation where I'd feel comfortable doing it, which is basically the situation I'm in now.

In this situation:

1) Residential trash pickup is a flat rate
2) The city issues garbage bins
3) (and most importantly) Garbage bins are put out in the alley for taking out, and everybody leaves their garbage can in the alley and just walks their garbage bags out to them.

In this case, I wouldn't care if somebody put dog shit in my container, because it's not going back into my garage or my property, really. I'd rather they just throw it in there than have to carry it around for the rest of the walk.

Even in this situation, I am not sure I would take a permissive attitude toward other people's dogs' droppings in my trash if, for example, I lived in rented accommodation with a no-pets policy and the landlord checked the trash occasionally to make sure pets weren't being kept on the property.  (In principle waste-fraud statutes should restrain bin-diving landlords, but a Google search on {"waste fraud"} turns up no relevant hits, so if they are still on the books, then popular knowledge of them is essentially nil.)

[Laura]

It depends on the situation.

Okay, there's really one situation where I'd feel comfortable doing it, which is basically the situation I'm in now.
In this situation:

1) Residential trash pickup is a flat rate
2) The city issues garbage bins
3) (and most importantly) Garbage bins are put out in the alley for taking out, and everybody leaves their garbage can in the alley and just walks their garbage bags out to them.

In this case, I wouldn't care if somebody put dog shit in my container, because it's not going back into my garage or my property, really. I'd rather they just throw it in there than have to carry it around for the rest of the walk.

Now, in your stereotypical suburban neighborhood where people wheel their garbage cans in and out from the garage, I'd be more reluctant to do so unless it was trash day, simply because I don't want to stink up somebody's garbage can.

I guess it really comes down to where you live- in the community I'm in, you'd be looked at as an asshole if you made people carry dog shit around instead of just throwing it in the nearest waste bin, but I've definitely lived in places where people generally think that garbage cans are private property to be protected at all costs.

Generally, I'm in favor of it, because if you're not having to carry poop around you're more likely to scoop in the first place. I'd rather you clean up the deuce your dog takes in my yard and throw it in the garbage than just leave it in my yard.

I completely agree with this. When I lived in Baltimore City, this was the arrangement (cans stayed in the alley). Even when I was growing up in rural suburbia we kept our cans in a hidden corner of the yard between some trees, so someone throwing their crap into our cans wouldn't be a big deal.

[Scott5114]

I'd rather you clean up the deuce your dog takes in my yard and throw it in the garbage than just leave it in my yard.

This. I wouldn't personally care if anyone actually uses my trash polycart for pretty much any reason, because most of its volume goes unused now that Norman offers residential recycling services.* I would much rather someone toss something in my trash than litter. Even if it's dog shit...since I store the carts outdoors, next to the house, the only time I have to have any interaction with them is when I am putting something in or wheeling it to and from the street (and the lid is airtight enough that I do not notice any odor unless the lid is open).


*I would be somewhat annoyed if someone used my recycling bin, but that's because the recycling truck only comes every other week, and I generally end up filling the polycart nearly to the brim. However, I would rationalize it that at least they were recycling rather than sending it to the dump, so I would begrudgingly turn the other cheek unless they were recycling significant volumes of trash in my bin.

[Jardine]

And I don't like dogs peeing on my tires either.  I had many rim leaks on my old van and I can't help but think all that dog pee had corroded them.

[J N Winkler]

I voted No because putting dog droppings (or any other kind of trash, for that matter) in someone else's bin without their knowledge or permission, either explicit or implied, is a peccadillo at best.  I understand the argument that it is better to have the dog droppings wrapped up and in the trash than on the ground, and in most cases I would say Yes if a passing dog owner asked if he or she could put securely wrapped droppings in my trash, but the standard to which pet owners should be prepared to adhere is "Your trash in your own waste stream."  It is an unpleasant surprise to open your own bin and find someone else's trash in it, especially when you don't know who put it there and cannot be sure it has been wrapped well enough not to burst and foul the inside of the bin.

In regard to the tangential issue of waste fraud, a quick check of the Wikipedia article on dumpster diving suggests that the legal and cultural norms surrounding misappropriation of others' trash are currently quite confused, but the Supreme Court decision in California v. Greenwood (1988) has apparently established that there is no expectation of privacy (and thus no requirement for the police to obtain a search warrant) in respect of trash that has been left outdoors for collection.

[1995hoo]

I voted No because putting dog droppings (or any other kind of trash, for that matter) in someone else's bin without their knowledge or permission, either explicit or implied, is a peccadillo at best.  I understand the argument that it is better to have the dog droppings wrapped up and in the trash than on the ground, and in most cases I would say Yes if a passing dog owner asked if he or she could put securely wrapped droppings in my trash, but the standard to which pet owners should be prepared to adhere is "Your trash in your own waste stream."  It is an unpleasant surprise to open your own bin and find someone else's trash in it, especially when you don't know who put it there and cannot be sure it has been wrapped well enough not to burst and foul the inside of the bin.

In regard to the tangential issue of waste fraud, a quick check of the Wikipedia article on dumpster diving suggests that the legal and cultural norms surrounding misappropriation of others' trash are currently quite confused, but the Supreme Court decision in California v. Greenwood (1988) has apparently established that there is no expectation of privacy (and thus no requirement for the police to obtain a search warrant) in respect of trash that has been left outdoors for collection.

The point you make in your second paragraph relates somewhat to the point of not putting your trash in someone else's trash can. I don't usually put our trash out the night before trash day because I know the garbagemen don't come until later in the day. Your comment made me think of the scenario where a neighbor you dislike puts some kind of contraband in your trash can and then calls the cops to "alert" them to it. I'm reminded of an argument a few years ago (on the same forum where the post I quoted in the first post in this thread came from) about whether you should secure your home wi-fi. This one guy insisted you're a "bad neighbor" if you secure it because a "good neighbor" would "share." He didn't have much of a response when I said, "Why, so you can download all the child porn you want through my network so the cops will come after me for it?"

We store our trash can in the garage. Community rules are that the trash can (and recycle bin) shall be kept out of public view until no earlier than sunset the night before trash day. Of course there are some idiots who rush to put out their trash early on Sunday afternoon for Monday pickup so the wind invariably redistributes it into everyone else's yard....there's another guy down the end of the block who leaves his dog crap bags (tied closed) sitting on the ground outside his garage door all week, and several times on windy days those have been blown around into other people's yards. That's gross. I don't want to go picking up someone else's dog crap bag, even if it is in an enclosed bag, just like I disliked it when I found used tissues in my front yard or (last month) one of those pick-style dental floss thingies. Secure your damn trash, people!

[Jardine]

Dog doots, Huggies and Pampers, Depends, Relys, Kotex, used Band-Aid, spittle, phlegm, mucus, it's all potentially bio-hazardous and should not be inflicted on others.

Unless they ask nicely or pay . . .

[J N Winkler]

I'm reminded of an argument a few years ago (on the same forum where the post I quoted in the first post in this thread came from) about whether you should secure your home wi-fi. This one guy insisted you're a "bad neighbor" if you secure it because a "good neighbor" would "share." He didn't have much of a response when I said, "Why, so you can download all the child porn you want through my network so the cops will come after me for it?"

I actually support community wifi provision, but I really couldn't endorse running an open-access network from a private home, not just for the child-porn consideration you mention, but also because of the basic design of 802.11 wireless networks.  Only one pair of radios can actually exchange packets with each other at any given time, and all the other radios that are part of the network can passively eavesdrop on those two.  Given that very little network traffic is encrypted, an eavesdropper has something almost as good as a screen recorder and keystroke logger on your computer unless you are routing all of your traffic through an encrypted tunnel.

For the past couple of years, I have been writing downloaders for various state DOTs that require me to use packet analyzers like Fiddler and Wireshark to monitor my own network traffic to trap the tokens that are used to trigger download so I can analyze them and write scripts to spoof them and allow me to carry out unattended downloads.  Before I started doing this, I had not realized how insecure network traffic actually is.  Even sites that use HTTPS often use it only for login transactions, which means that once you are logged in, an eavesdropper can copy your session cookie and use it--without your knowledge--to do all sorts of things on the site that are available to logged-in users.  For some sites this even includes the ability to generate financial transactions.  Plus I have encountered sites that don't use encryption even for login, which means that if you use the same password for such a site that you use for others, then anyone who can monitor your login to that site immediately gets password access to other sites that do encrypt the login transaction.

We store our trash can in the garage. Community rules are that the trash can (and recycle bin) shall be kept out of public view until no earlier than sunset the night before trash day. Of course there are some idiots who rush to put out their trash early on Sunday afternoon for Monday pickup so the wind invariably redistributes it into everyone else's yard....there's another guy down the end of the block who leaves his dog crap bags (tied closed) sitting on the ground outside his garage door all week, and several times on windy days those have been blown around into other people's yards. That's gross. I don't want to go picking up someone else's dog crap bag, even if it is in an enclosed bag, just like I disliked it when I found used tissues in my front yard or (last month) one of those pick-style dental floss thingies. Secure your damn trash, people!

Our subdivision is too old to have a HOA, but we and most of our neighbors try to observe similar rules.  At our house pretty much everything except odd bits of yard waste (such as twigs and gum balls) goes only into lined bins or trash cans, and are put in the collection bin inside the liners.  This makes it less likely that the wind will pick up and scatter noxious pieces of trash or that household litter will be spilled when the trash is collected, which happens more often than we would like now that the garbage trucks serving our street have been fitted with ladder conveyors for automated tipping.

[jeffandnicole]

Owning dogs (and we have several), I wouldn't think of putting dog poo-poo in someone else's trash cans.  It's really not that hard to bring a few plastic bags, and if needed, put the poo-poo bag in a clean bag if you don't want to touch the poo-poo bag.

Now, if we're talking a soda can, then I'll put that in someone else's recycling bin. 

[hbelkins]

If the excrement is put into a plastic bag with no holes and sealed or tied tightly, there should be no smell emanating from it.

Bags from Walmart, Kroger, Dollar General, etc., are excellent for disposal of cat waste (clumps of litter and feces) and if the bag doesn't have any holes in it and it's tied up tightly enough, it won't stink.

So I generally would not have a problem with someone else putting their sealed bags of dog dung in my Herbie, unless they were filling it up and there was no room for my garbage. I'd rather them pick up after their dog than me step in the piles.

[agentsteel53]

my garbage can usually sits at the bottom of a very long driveway; it is hauled up to the street at the top of the hill only for weekly collection.

if you come down the driveway specifically to put your waste into my can, then we probably know each other, and you should stop by for a beer.

[Duke87]

Seeing as I share trash bins with a couple dozen other people anyway, what goes in them is something I have no reason to care about. Of course, these cans are located in the side alley behind a locked gate, so in theory no one should be able to access them unless they live in the building... even on trash day, since in NYC only the bags go to the curb, not the cans.

That said, if I lived in a place where I had my own private trash bin, I would object to anyone other than me throwing anything in it since I'm very territorial about my stuff like that. And I just find the idea of someone else's trash being in my trash to be gross. Kind of like how I don't at all mind washing my own dirty dishes but I don't even want to touch anyone else's.