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Wisconsin notes

Started by mgk920, May 30, 2012, 02:33:31 AM

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HandsomeRob

Quote from: peterj920 on August 19, 2015, 11:47:09 PM
Planes are way more convenient than trains are.

If I'm going across the country, yes. Otherwise, I'd much rather have a high-speed train. I don't have to show up an hour ahead of time. 10 minutes should do it. It's way, way, way more comfortable. It takes me right into the city, instead of to an airport in the suburbs that's usually a half hour drive away. I don't have to check my luggage.

Yes, it's a faster trip on a plane. But when you factor in the time before takeoff and after landing that you need to invest when you fly, I'm not sure it's a faster trip at all.

In summary, "planes are way more convenient than trains are" is the kind of thing someone who's never used modern high-speed rail would say.


peterj920

If the cities are close together, such as New York and Philadelphia, then a high speed train would be more practical than flying.  The 400 line between Minneapolis and Chicago was just as fast as high speed rail lines would be now so why did that line close up in 1963?  Trains on that line reached 112 mph, and that line now is part of the Elroy-Sparta Trail.  If people wanted to use high speed rail, the 400 would still be in business today, and rail lines would have continued to be upgraded by private industry if they were profitable, but they weren't.  It would be great if prices on flights would be more balanced to make it more convenient for people in smaller towns to fly.  I just flew from Chicago to Dallas 2 weeks ago for $240, that same flight would have cost $500 if I flew out of Green Bay so I was willing to drive to Chicago for the cheaper flight.  Price differences like that should be looked at to make travel more convenient. 

TheHighwayMan3561

A couple things, Peter. You have to understand that US high-speed rail is inferior to that of a number of Western European nations and Japan. If we could develop rail on par (both in terms of cost as well as efficiency) with those nations it would make high-speed rail much more attractive. I also think this is not 1963 anymore where more people are open to alternative methods of travel than cars and planes.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

peterj920

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 20, 2015, 04:33:03 PM
A couple things, Peter. You have to understand that US high-speed rail is inferior to that of a number of Western European nations and Japan. If we could develop rail on par (both in terms of cost as well as efficiency) with those nations it would make high-speed rail much more attractive. I also think this is not 1963 anymore where more people are open to alternative methods of travel than cars and planes.

Those countries in Europe are so much smaller areawise also than the United States.  Japan's high speed rail network is only 1810 miles, that's barely enough to make a dent in the United States.  If rail transportation was profitable, the private sector market would have expanded rail.  Freight service is booming in the U.S. and freight companies are quietly making huge profits because there is high demand.  Those same companies don't offer passenger rail because it isn't economically viable.  If a government subsidy is required, it's because the demand isn't there in most instances.

mgk920

#754
Quote from: peterj920 on August 19, 2015, 11:47:09 PM
High speed rail isn't practical in most parts of the U.S.  It would work on the east coast because the cities are a lot closer together.  The 400 line between Chicago and Minneapolis was a high speed line, and it shut down due to lack of passengers in the mid 60s.  I don't understand why a line between those 2 cities is needed when they're an hour plane ride away.  Planes are way more convenient than trains are.  As for Madison to Milwaukee, it's a lot easier to drive and the passenger count would have been low to the point that the state would have to pickup the operation costs.

Three letters here:

'T', 'S' and 'A'.

-----------------------

Anyways, had Doyle announced restoring enhanced conventional-speed service to the Fond du Lac/Oshkosh/Appleton/Green Bay corridor first (estimated cost $150M-175M - only about 20% of the cost of such a restoration on the Madison line), IMHO, it would be up and running now.  Remember that Amtrak wanted to take over the CNW's Green Bay (via Appleton) service on their start up back in 1971 - it was very popular and operating at a *PROFIT* 'above the rails'.

HOWEVER, CNW's track was starting to deteriorate and needed a chip-in from the state for the work that was needed in order for Amtrak to be able to take it over.  The legislature of the day (also remember that this was the time of the Apollo Moon landings), despite the line's popularity with the daytrip crowd, especially with businessguys, thinking that rail was 'quaint and old fashioned' in the age of air and space travel, balked.  Had they agreed, NE Wisconsin would likely now have very useful and popular service from eight-ten (or perhaps more) daily round trips of extended Hiawathas and this would be a non-issue.

NE Wisconsin is just the right distance and direction from Chicago for such a service to be hugely popular and today, track condition is virtually a non-issue.

Mike

Brandon

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 20, 2015, 04:33:03 PM
A couple things, Peter. You have to understand that US high-speed rail is inferior to that of a number of Western European nations and Japan. If we could develop rail on par (both in terms of cost as well as efficiency) with those nations it would make high-speed rail much more attractive. I also think this is not 1963 anymore where more people are open to alternative methods of travel than cars and planes.

However, that said, those countries freight rail systems pale in comparison to ours.  Given a choice between having a superior freight rail system or a superior passenger rail system, I'll take the superior freight rail system.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

SEWIGuy

High speed rail works best within places of high population density.  In Europe it works great because you can get from one metro area to another very quickly without the hassle of flying.  However in the US I don't think it would work as well.  To use the aforementioned example, it is simply easier to fly between Chicago and Minneapolis - the 400 miles would take two hours (not including loading / unloading), etc., where it is an hour and 20 minute flight.  (And that includes from when you push off from the gate.)

Now there are certain places it would work.  But I think the US is simply too big and sparse to make it work nationally, or even regionally.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/World_population_density_1994.png

mgk920

As I mentioned upthread, I'd likely find a restored service between NE Wisconsin and Chicago to be very useful - just the right distance and direction from DT Chicago to be perfect for the need.

Mike

JMAN_WiS&S

Quote from: mahaasma on August 15, 2015, 10:56:53 PM
Has anyone driven in Eau Claire lately?  I recently noticed a flurry of ALT 53 signs being posted, both at exits on the US-53 bypass,  and on portions of Business 53 through town.  I didn't have time to take a closer look,  but it even appeared that some Business 53 signs were replaced by ALT-53 signs.

Anyone have any insights on this?  Why would you need to resign a business route as an ALT route?  (other than to give road geeks something to geek about and discuss...)
I live in Eau Claire and see that once in a while. At the WI 93 Entrance, there is a set of beacons, and a sign reading "Use BUS 53 when flashing" and there are railroad crossing style ramp closed gates. I think these are for when accidents occur, so traffic easily knows what other roads to use.
Youtube, Twitter, Flickr Username: JMAN.WiS&S
Instagram username: jman.wissotasirens-signals

I am not an official representative or spokesperson for WisDOT. Any views or opinions expressed are purely my own based on my work experiences and do not represent WisDOTs views or opinions.

SEWIGuy

Small but interesting observation today.  Waukesha County has painted "Caution Turtle Crossing" onto County CI (former WI-106) just east of the Jefferson County at the part where it winds around a pond. 

colinstu

Satellite imagery has been updated for Milwaukee (not sure how much of WI) under Google Map Maker (mapmaker.google.com)
Isn't the NEWEST but it's pretty darn new, gives a much better view of the progress of the Zoo interchange for those interested.

Milwaukee, WY

Quote from: colinstu on August 27, 2015, 11:17:33 AM
Satellite imagery has been updated for Milwaukee (not sure how much of WI) under Google Map Maker (mapmaker.google.com)
Isn't the NEWEST but it's pretty darn new, gives a much better view of the progress of the Zoo interchange for those interested.
Looks to be from around June of this year or so. Also looks much nicer with the green tree canopy than the previous imagery from April 2014.

triplemultiplex

As much as I despise summer aerials, it is nice to see the progress.
The temporary configuration at the Lake Interchange is interesting.  And check out the skyscraper construction downtown!  Two towers going up; both kitty-corner from the US Bank Center.  Northwestern Mutual's new building to the north and 833 E. Wisconsin to the south.

Seriously, summer is a bad time for aerials in this part of the world.  The deciduous trees block out a LOT of detail.  We have months and months with no leaves and no snow; that's when you take your shots, man.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

mgk920

Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 28, 2015, 05:11:55 AM
As much as I despise summer aerials, it is nice to see the progress.
The temporary configuration at the Lake Interchange is interesting.  And check out the skyscraper construction downtown!  Two towers going up; both kitty-corner from the US Bank Center.  Northwestern Mutual's new building to the north and 833 E. Wisconsin to the south.

Seriously, summer is a bad time for aerials in this part of the world.  The deciduous trees block out a LOT of detail.  We have months and months with no leaves and no snow; that's when you take your shots, man.

AND, a couple of weeks ago, judge blessed a proposed 30+ floor residential building to go up by the Lake interchange.  The controversy centered on the site's status as filled former lake.

Like in many other cities, including nearby Chicago, there is a LOT of interest in downtown area residential.  The proposed new arena for the NBA Bucks should spark a similar interest in the area of the former Hillside interchange, too.

Mike

JMAN_WiS&S

#764
*UPDATE*
Here is an update on the traffic signals on River Prairie Drive in Eau Claire/Altoona, now that woodmans is open, the new signals are activated.
Northbound US 53 & River Prairie Dr:
A new left turn lane was added to the off-ramp of NB US 53. The trombone signals mentioned in the news report that we thought were just being put up have been put back up, but are modified. All of the horizontal trombones remain except for the one for WB River Prairie Dr. A normal right hand and a backwards left hand median trombone arm has been put up, with vertical signals on each, 1 per lane. Here's the weird part. EB River Prairie Dr traffic turning left onto NB US 53 used to have a protected/Permissive 5 stack, but have been replaced with a protected-only 3 Section.
Southbound US 53 & R. P. Dr.:
All the horizontal trombones remain except the EB R.P.DR. traffic, which has the same dual trombone vertical setup as described above. WB R.P.Dr. traffic turning left onto SB US 53 has a protected/permissive FYA. It used to have a 5 stack.
Now these other two intersections west of US 53 I am not 100% sure of, but the one closest to US 53 is a strange intersection. The side street traffic can only turn right. But left turning traffic on R.P.DR. have 4 section FYA. You can see this intersection towards the end of the video in this report. http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/Drivers-can-expect-delays-on-River-Prairie-Drive-as-road-construction-starts-309154421.html?device=tablet&c=y
*EDIT* The other intersection is a normal vertical mount monotube setup with Protected only signals for RPD, FYA for woodmans traffic, and either protected only or permissive only 3 Section for the not yet developed NW Quadrent. Also noted that this intersection has little (presumably) led lights next to the opticom sensors, just like the way Minnesota does them. I am not sure if the other 3 intersections got them. This will be the first intersection in eau Claire to have visual preemption confirmation. All signalized intersections in eau Claire have emergency vehicle preemption via opticom or whatever the other brand is.
Youtube, Twitter, Flickr Username: JMAN.WiS&S
Instagram username: jman.wissotasirens-signals

I am not an official representative or spokesperson for WisDOT. Any views or opinions expressed are purely my own based on my work experiences and do not represent WisDOTs views or opinions.

GeekJedi

Noticed a new addition to the freeways that are posted at 70MPH. WisDOT has now posted yellow "Exit 50MPH" advisory signs next to the BG exit signs (the sign before the exit gore). These have been popping up in the past few days.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

SEWIGuy

Quote from: GeekJedi on August 29, 2015, 08:17:15 PM
Noticed a new addition to the freeways that are posted at 70MPH. WisDOT has now posted yellow "Exit 50MPH" advisory signs next to the BG exit signs (the sign before the exit gore). These have been popping up in the past few days.

I have noticed a lot less speed differentiation the last few weeks on the interstates.  People are picking up their speed.

DaBigE

Quote from: GeekJedi on August 29, 2015, 08:17:15 PM
Noticed a new addition to the freeways that are posted at 70MPH. WisDOT has now posted yellow "Exit 50MPH" advisory signs next to the BG exit signs (the sign before the exit gore). These have been popping up in the past few days.

IIRC, I saw a 60 MPH advisory sign at the 41-45 interchange near Oshkosh last weekend. I've never seen an advisory speed sign that high.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

peterj920

Quote from: DaBigE on August 29, 2015, 09:36:02 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on August 29, 2015, 08:17:15 PM
Noticed a new addition to the freeways that are posted at 70MPH. WisDOT has now posted yellow "Exit 50MPH" advisory signs next to the BG exit signs (the sign before the exit gore). These have been popping up in the past few days.

IIRC, I saw a 60 MPH advisory sign at the 41-45 interchange near Oshkosh last weekend. I've never seen an advisory speed sign that high.

The ramps from US 51 to Wis 29 have had the 60 MPH advisory signs for a few years now.  There are also a lot of Speed Limit 65 Ahead signs popping up at interchanges where a freeway/expressway continues away from an interstate, such as I-43 to Wis 54/57, I-43 to Wis 172, and I-41 to Wis 441 south.   

Roadguy

Quote from: DaBigE on June 19, 2015, 01:52:02 AM
Quote from: Roadguy on June 19, 2015, 12:46:41 AM
Looks like right now the assembly and senate have agreed to a $800 million dollar reduction in bonding over the next 2 years for transportation. 
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/gop-leaders-in-legislature-squabble-about-budget-impasse-b99522269z1-308205131.html
It will be interesting to see how the people and politicians react when they actually get a list of projects across the state that would be postponed or even cut.  This amount is significant enough that current contracts under construction would be affected.  Because of this WisDOT would have to get contractors to agree through change order a delay in completion or claims would be submitted (Both will cost the state money).  It will be interesting to watch how this all plays out (A LOT of competing interests and priorities for many from the WTBA, Unions, residents, and legislators).

For others replying to this, I ask for this discussion to not to turn into a negative finger pointing politics discussion but rather let's focus on the potential effects (including listing projects you may think would get postponed or cut) due to this reduction in funding.

A lot of us (myself included, in addition to the rest of my office and other colleagues with other firms) are watching all of this with great interest/nervousness. Many don't realize how big of an impact this will have across the state. It's not just postponing maintenance or other road projects...this trickles down much further, to the construction crews and design engineers. Cutting projects => less work to be done => less workers needed => layoffs.

One of the projects rumored to be ground to a halt is the I-39 expansion between Illinois and Madison. Supposedly, the Zoo Interchange would continue.

Bringing back an old discussion about the next 2 year budget.  With the cut in transportation with this budget compared to the last 2 years ($800 million currently but can be dropped to $500 million with legislative approval for more bonding) there is a HUGE re-scope going on for projects.  With the current funding, even existing contracts may be affected (the goal is to avoid this situation).  Eventually lists will be released with project delays and possibly a few deletions.

mgk920

Quote from: Roadguy on August 31, 2015, 10:32:09 AMBringing back an old discussion about the next 2 year budget.  With the cut in transportation with this budget compared to the last 2 years ($800 million currently but can be dropped to $500 million with legislative approval for more bonding) there is a HUGE re-scope going on for projects.  With the current funding, even existing contracts may be affected (the goal is to avoid this situation).  Eventually lists will be released with project delays and possibly a few deletions.

I'm kind of expecting the east end of the US 10/WI 441 upgrade project to be delayed.

:no:

Mike

peterj920

The Zoo Interchange project north of Watertown Plank Rd is supposed to be delayed.  Will the I-94 project in Racine County be delayed even further?  It was delayed already so the Zoo Interchange could be completed.  Last year, the stretch in Racine County was resurfaced so the roadway could last beyond the 2021, the revised completion date.  At the time, I thought that project was a waste because why resurface a road that's going to get ripped up within 5 years?  If the project is delayed further, the resurfacing would be more justified. 

marcreichman

Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 04:53:28 AM
The Zoo Interchange project north of Watertown Plank Rd is supposed to be delayed. 

That's a shame, the North ave legwork looks like it's already being started a bit, and with Meijer, Mayfair Collection, and Whole Foods (and new hotels, Bartolotta Restaurants, etc.) opening at Burleigh, some TLC would be welcomed!

colinstu

Besides some road geometry being tweaked with the North Ave interchange there aren't any major changes with the actual configuration of the ramps. The delay sucks but it's not something huge. At least it's not cancelled.

peterj920

Drove through Eau Claire today, and they are officially getting rid of the stop bar traffic signal.  On Brackett Ave, the new signals omit them, along with the other signals that were installed this year.  The signals did not use doghouse style lights, probably because the street has left turn only lanes.  I noticed that the 2 intersections that use doghouse lights are on streets where the driver has the option to go straight or turn left.  That city has every possible signal combination available in the state.  U.S. 12/Clairemont Ave has had some trombone vertical signal mounts at some intersections for years before the DOT started installing them mainstream, and they're still up at some intersections.  That project was also one of the last projects where the DOT used horizontal signals on multi lane roads when it was reconstructed in 2008.  A year later when Hastings Way was reconstructed, mono tubes and vertical signals were used. 



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