DFW Interstate highway news

[wxfree]

I'm just catching up on some transportation meetings I haven't watched yet, and in this one Michael Morris says that the cities in the region want to build a new Interstate highway along the regional loop from I-30 near Rockwall to US 75 north of McKinney, and run the designation along US 75 north of there.  They have, at the same time, no interest in the designation for US 75 south of the intersection, connecting to I-345.  He mentions it about 38 minutes into the video.

http://nctcog.swagit.com/play/07292013-573

The handouts that were given out are in this document http://nctcog.org/trans/corridor/Elected_Officials_Briefing.pdf  The Outer Loop is shown on page 25.

I suppose I-45 could swing out that way along I-30 and then follow the new route, or perhaps what they have in mind is a whole new number.  The whole thing seems strange to me.  At best, I could see that loop segment being a three-digit off an extended I-45.  It would be interesting to know more about it.

[NE2]

Maybe US 75 isn't up to standards?

You could take I-45 around the entire east part of I-635 (and the new loop?) and give I-345 an actual reason to exist by extending it down to I-20.

[Bobby5280]

I think chances are extremely slim to none any group representing interests East of Dallas would be able to re-route the I-45 designation East of Dallas and even to the East of Lavon Lake and Lake Ray Hubbard.

If any change needs to be made to I-45 that should some in the form of an extension along US-75 up into Oklahoma and then as far as the US-69 interchange with I-44 at Big Cabin. The US-75/69 corridor up to McAlester and US-69 to Big Cabin has an unreal amount of heavy truck traffic traveling from points in Texas to the points in the Northeast US. It's one of the most obvious highway corridors in need of an upgrade to full Interstate highway standards.

If North Central Expressway in Dallas isn't up to Interstate highway standards that would be a big surprise to me. It was rebuilt in the 1990s and then the Dallas High Five interchange was built early last decade.

This isn't to say there isn't some long term need for new superhighways to the North and East of Dallas. It would just be really tricky nailing down a corridor that would be useful at moving traffic through the region and to logical destinations.

Lake Lavon is a really serious obstacle for a new loop highway to connect towns like Rockwall or Royse City to McKinney without the route going way out of the way.  That V-shaped lake is pretty huge. For now, the best route from someone in Rockwall to get to McKinney is taking I-30 to the George Bush Turnpike and then taking that up to US-75. Looking at the map, there's little alternative to building a new route more direct than that -at least not without pissing off a lot of people.

The most direct route would go from I-30 in Rockwall, across the wetlands north of Lake Ray Hubbard and South of Lavon Lake Dam. Good luck getting an EIS for that. And then the highway would have to cross Lake Lavon just west of the dam and east of Avalon Park, spanning over to the peninsula that creates the two "V" legs of Lake Lavon. Then the road would pass though a bunch of rural farm land all the way to US-380. Not a lot of residential or business property would be consumed by such a route, but considering the environmentally sensitive areas and scenic views the road might disrupt I can't see such a thing ever getting built.

OTOH, I do believe US-380 should be upgraded to Interstate standards from I-30 in Greenville, TX, through McKinney and Denton, all the way over to Decatur. That route could be given a 2-digit Interstate label, provided they extended it up US-287 through Wichita Falls and to Amarillo.

[Brian556]

OTOH, I do believe US-380 should be upgraded to Interstate standards from I-30 in Greenville, TX, through McKinney and Denton

Yes, I have always thought US 380 needs to be a freeway Greenville-Denton. West of Denton, I think four-lane divided should be sufficient.
The Greenville-Denton section really sucks due to too-frequent signals, and heavy truck traffic.

[wxfree]

It isn't extremely likely that the preferences of the cities will determine the course of future designations, but I should point out that it isn't interests east of Dallas wanting this.  It's Collin County that want this arrangement, according to Michael Morris, while Dallas, McKinney, and Plano have no interest in extending I-45 northward along US 75.

I don't know why they'd want the designation that way, unless they're hoping it pushes traffic to that other corridor instead of Central Expressway.  Perhaps they're planning it as a toll road and hope the designation draws more traffic so it can generate extra revenue to pay for unrelated projects.  Those are the only reasons I can think of for wanting this.

[bugo]

As far as I can tell, US 75 north of downtown Dallas to the Oklahoma line is pretty much up to interstate standards.  I'm almost positive the rebuilt Central Expressway is.

The US 69 turnpike would be great, but those podunk buttfuck towns along the highway would raise a stink if OTA seriously considered building it.  It would put many Barney Fife police departments out of business.  I hate driving that road.  When I drive from Tulsa to Dallas, I go through Oklahoma City because the drive is so much less stressful, if longer.

[Road Hog]

I think chances are extremely slim to none any group representing interests East of Dallas would be able to re-route the I-45 designation East of Dallas and even to the East of Lavon Lake and Lake Ray Hubbard.

If any change needs to be made to I-45 that should some in the form of an extension along US-75 up into Oklahoma and then as far as the US-69 interchange with I-44 at Big Cabin. The US-75/69 corridor up to McAlester and US-69 to Big Cabin has an unreal amount of heavy truck traffic traveling from points in Texas to the points in the Northeast US. It's one of the most obvious highway corridors in need of an upgrade to full Interstate highway standards.

If North Central Expressway in Dallas isn't up to Interstate highway standards that would be a big surprise to me. It was rebuilt in the 1990s and then the Dallas High Five interchange was built early last decade.

This isn't to say there isn't some long term need for new superhighways to the North and East of Dallas. It would just be really tricky nailing down a corridor that would be useful at moving traffic through the region and to logical destinations.

Lake Lavon is a really serious obstacle for a new loop highway to connect towns like Rockwall or Royse City to McKinney without the route going way out of the way.  That V-shaped lake is pretty huge. For now, the best route from someone in Rockwall to get to McKinney is taking I-30 to the George Bush Turnpike and then taking that up to US-75. Looking at the map, there's little alternative to building a new route more direct than that -at least not without pissing off a lot of people.

The most direct route would go from I-30 in Rockwall, across the wetlands north of Lake Ray Hubbard and South of Lavon Lake Dam. Good luck getting an EIS for that. And then the highway would have to cross Lake Lavon just west of the dam and east of Avalon Park, spanning over to the peninsula that creates the two "V" legs of Lake Lavon. Then the road would pass though a bunch of rural farm land all the way to US-380. Not a lot of residential or business property would be consumed by such a route, but considering the environmentally sensitive areas and scenic views the road might disrupt I can't see such a thing ever getting built.

OTOH, I do believe US-380 should be upgraded to Interstate standards from I-30 in Greenville, TX, through McKinney and Denton, all the way over to Decatur. That route could be given a 2-digit Interstate label, provided they extended it up US-287 through Wichita Falls and to Amarillo.

I believe the Outer Loop is expected to supplant 380 as an east-west thoroughfare. Of course, that won't be for another 30 years.

The 380 strip is starting to get developed rather quickly, so the window is closing for a 121-style construction straight down the old corridor, if it hasn't already.

[rte66man]

I believe the Outer Loop is expected to supplant 380 as an east-west thoroughfare. Of course, that won't be for another 30 years.

The 380 strip is starting to get developed rather quickly, so the window is closing for a 121-style construction straight down the old corridor, if it hasn't already.

It already has from Denton to McKinney.  They spent all that $$ on widening it to six lanes and didn't buy the extra ROW while they were at it.  A missed opportunity.

rte66man

[Henry]

I believe the Outer Loop is expected to supplant 380 as an east-west thoroughfare. Of course, that won't be for another 30 years.

The 380 strip is starting to get developed rather quickly, so the window is closing for a 121-style construction straight down the old corridor, if it hasn't already.

It already has from Denton to McKinney.  They spent all that $$ on widening it to six lanes and didn't buy the extra ROW while they were at it.  A missed opportunity.

rte66man

A blown chance indeed. Which would make another reason to upgrade the rest of US 75 to Interstate standards to accommodate a future I-45 extension.