Why does the NYS Thruway not sign for Rochester and Syracuse?

Started by James, August 26, 2022, 10:28:07 PM

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vdeane

Quote from: bluecountry on September 07, 2022, 08:55:56 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 05, 2022, 10:01:18 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on September 05, 2022, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 05, 2022, 11:44:21 AM
Why Newburgh instead of Albany?  I could see Newburgh/Albany/Montreal, leaving off Buffalo, but I don't see why the next major metro area heading north should be left off.  It would be like leaving off Syracuse heading west from Albany.
-Tappan Zee Bridge from Yonkers
-Newburgh from Tappen Zee Bridge
-Albany from Newburgh
Are you not aware that the Albany metro area is the 4th largest in the state (larger than Syracuse, even)?  It makes ZERO sense to leave Albany off between Suffern and Newburgh.
I think it is pre-mature to sign 'Albany' prior to the Mahwah/287 exit.
I can understand not having Albany as the signed control city south of I-287, but exit 15 is 30 miles south of Newburgh.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.


bluecountry

Quote from: vdeane on September 08, 2022, 08:35:26 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on September 07, 2022, 08:55:56 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 05, 2022, 10:01:18 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on September 05, 2022, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 05, 2022, 11:44:21 AM
Why Newburgh instead of Albany?  I could see Newburgh/Albany/Montreal, leaving off Buffalo, but I don't see why the next major metro area heading north should be left off.  It would be like leaving off Syracuse heading west from Albany.
-Tappan Zee Bridge from Yonkers
-Newburgh from Tappen Zee Bridge
-Albany from Newburgh
Are you not aware that the Albany metro area is the 4th largest in the state (larger than Syracuse, even)?  It makes ZERO sense to leave Albany off between Suffern and Newburgh.
I think it is pre-mature to sign 'Albany' prior to the Mahwah/287 exit.
I can understand not having Albany as the signed control city south of I-287, but exit 15 is 30 miles south of Newburgh.
Yes, no Albany prior to 287.

empirestate

Quote from: Alps on September 06, 2022, 07:46:09 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on September 06, 2022, 12:05:48 AM
I would not sign any other cities on the Thruway/87 between NYC and Albany. I would support adding Syracuse as a control city between Buffalo and Albany. Not Rochester though as the Thruway bypasses it.
But the I-490 loop serves it, so I'm fine with Rochester.

And conversely, Buffalo is signed from Rochester on I-490, implicitly via the Thruway.

James

Hmm, so after some consideration, I'm actually fine with the Thruway ignoring Rochester and Syracuse....BUT I feel like it should also ignore Erie and just sign straight for Cleveland because I'm pretty sure Rochester and Syracuse are both bigger than Erie. 

Heck, maybe you could even sign it for Pittsburgh/Cleveland to reflect the later junction with I-79.

shadyjay

Quote from: bluecountry on September 11, 2022, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 08, 2022, 08:35:26 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on September 07, 2022, 08:55:56 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 05, 2022, 10:01:18 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on September 05, 2022, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 05, 2022, 11:44:21 AM
Why Newburgh instead of Albany?  I could see Newburgh/Albany/Montreal, leaving off Buffalo, but I don't see why the next major metro area heading north should be left off.  It would be like leaving off Syracuse heading west from Albany.
-Tappan Zee Bridge from Yonkers
-Newburgh from Tappen Zee Bridge
-Albany from Newburgh
Are you not aware that the Albany metro area is the 4th largest in the state (larger than Syracuse, even)?  It makes ZERO sense to leave Albany off between Suffern and Newburgh.
I think it is pre-mature to sign 'Albany' prior to the Mahwah/287 exit.
I can understand not having Albany as the signed control city south of I-287, but exit 15 is 30 miles south of Newburgh.
Yes, no Albany prior to 287.

So if no Albany before 287, what would you sign it?  I've always been partial to old fashioned control points that NYC used to use... "Upstate" for the Deegan/I-87, "New England" for I-95.  Most everyone knows Albany and its location, but would they necessarily know Suffern or Newburgh?  What would you suggest for use on the Cross Bronx exit for I-87, if not Albany?

bluecountry


RobbieL2415

The TA lists both cities on their distance BGSs. I'd call that a compromise.

roadman65

Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

James

(Posted this comment in another thread but figured I'd put it here as well)

Tbh, I can accept not signing Rochester and Syracuse on the overhead signs but I'd definitely change the mileage signs on I-90 a little bit:

EB: Buffalo/Rochester/Albany, Rochester/Syracuse/Albany, Syracuse/Albany/Boston, Utica/Albany/Boston, Albany/New York City/Boston, Springfield/Worcester/Boston

WB: Albany/Syracuse/Buffalo, Syracuse/Rochester/Buffalo, Rochester/Buffalo/Niagara Falls, Buffalo/Niagara Falls/Erie PA, Fredonia/Erie PA/Cleveland, Erie PA/Cleveland/Chicago

Also, I'd definitely change I-90 WB overhead signage in the Buffalo area from "Erie" to "Erie PA/Cleveland".

Flint1979

Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 27, 2022, 09:04:20 AM
Its also because back in the olden days when the Thruway was new, people didn't have gps and Rochester and Syracuse were not as big as they are now, and almost everyone on the thruway was going to Buffalo, and they didn't wanna confuse anyone, and I guess it just sticked like that over time.
Actually both Rochester and Syracuse have lost population and were bigger back in the day.

Flint1979


webny99

Quote from: Flint1979 on February 08, 2023, 05:13:02 PM
Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 27, 2022, 09:04:20 AM
Its also because back in the olden days when the Thruway was new, people didn't have gps and Rochester and Syracuse were not as big as they are now, and almost everyone on the thruway was going to Buffalo, and they didn't wanna confuse anyone, and I guess it just sticked like that over time.
Actually both Rochester and Syracuse have lost population and were bigger back in the day.

That's true of the city propers, but both are on a slight rebound in recent years and both metro areas as a whole have held steady for decades.

Flint1979

Quote from: webny99 on February 08, 2023, 08:42:02 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on February 08, 2023, 05:13:02 PM
Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 27, 2022, 09:04:20 AM
Its also because back in the olden days when the Thruway was new, people didn't have gps and Rochester and Syracuse were not as big as they are now, and almost everyone on the thruway was going to Buffalo, and they didn't wanna confuse anyone, and I guess it just sticked like that over time.
Actually both Rochester and Syracuse have lost population and were bigger back in the day.

That's true of the city propers, but both are on a slight rebound in recent years and both metro areas as a whole have held steady for decades.
That seems to be true with a lot of cities like that that have just spread out into the suburbs. Like Detroit has lost 1.2 million people or more in the city proper but the metro area has basically remained the same population for like 40-50 years.

NJRoadfan

Quote from: shadyjay on September 18, 2022, 08:31:08 PM
So if no Albany before 287, what would you sign it?  I've always been partial to old fashioned control points that NYC used to use... "Upstate" for the Deegan/I-87, "New England" for I-95.  Most everyone knows Albany and its location, but would they necessarily know Suffern or Newburgh?  What would you suggest for use on the Cross Bronx exit for I-87, if not Albany?

These days the Garden State Parkway even uses Albany: https://goo.gl/maps/ffaHaAy53rmXp8647

NYTA installed signs on I-287 south of the NJ/NY line are keeping the Tappan Zee alive too.

kalvado

Quote from: Flint1979 on February 08, 2023, 09:08:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 08, 2023, 08:42:02 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on February 08, 2023, 05:13:02 PM
Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 27, 2022, 09:04:20 AM
Its also because back in the olden days when the Thruway was new, people didn't have gps and Rochester and Syracuse were not as big as they are now, and almost everyone on the thruway was going to Buffalo, and they didn't wanna confuse anyone, and I guess it just sticked like that over time.
Actually both Rochester and Syracuse have lost population and were bigger back in the day.

That's true of the city propers, but both are on a slight rebound in recent years and both metro areas as a whole have held steady for decades.
That seems to be true with a lot of cities like that that have just spread out into the suburbs. Like Detroit has lost 1.2 million people or more in the city proper but the metro area has basically remained the same population for like 40-50 years.
.... while country population doubled

Rothman

Quote from: kalvado on February 09, 2023, 04:24:43 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on February 08, 2023, 09:08:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 08, 2023, 08:42:02 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on February 08, 2023, 05:13:02 PM
Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 27, 2022, 09:04:20 AM
Its also because back in the olden days when the Thruway was new, people didn't have gps and Rochester and Syracuse were not as big as they are now, and almost everyone on the thruway was going to Buffalo, and they didn't wanna confuse anyone, and I guess it just sticked like that over time.
Actually both Rochester and Syracuse have lost population and were bigger back in the day.

That's true of the city propers, but both are on a slight rebound in recent years and both metro areas as a whole have held steady for decades.
That seems to be true with a lot of cities like that that have just spread out into the suburbs. Like Detroit has lost 1.2 million people or more in the city proper but the metro area has basically remained the same population for like 40-50 years.
.... while country population doubled
Wut.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kalvado

Quote from: Rothman on February 09, 2023, 09:16:11 AM
Quote from: kalvado on February 09, 2023, 04:24:43 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on February 08, 2023, 09:08:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 08, 2023, 08:42:02 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on February 08, 2023, 05:13:02 PM
Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on August 27, 2022, 09:04:20 AM
Its also because back in the olden days when the Thruway was new, people didn't have gps and Rochester and Syracuse were not as big as they are now, and almost everyone on the thruway was going to Buffalo, and they didn't wanna confuse anyone, and I guess it just sticked like that over time.
Actually both Rochester and Syracuse have lost population and were bigger back in the day.

That's true of the city propers, but both are on a slight rebound in recent years and both metro areas as a whole have held steady for decades.
That seems to be true with a lot of cities like that that have just spread out into the suburbs. Like Detroit has lost 1.2 million people or more in the city proper but the metro area has basically remained the same population for like 40-50 years.
.... while country population doubled
Wut.

> basically remained the same population for like 40-50 years.
USA population 50 years ago, 1973, was 211M vs 311M today. I stand corrected, this is a bit over 50% growth only 
1955 population is the half of today's number. 

Roadgeekteen

I-87 should be signed Albany south of I-287. I don't like control bridges and I-87 is the main road form NYC to upstate, and Albany is one of the biggest cities upstate.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

MATraveler128

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 09, 2023, 10:24:29 AM
I-87 should be signed Albany south of I-287. I don't like control bridges and I-87 is the main road form NYC to upstate, and Albany is one of the biggest cities upstate.

Albany is signed for I-87 north at its southern end at I-278.
Decommission 128 south of Peabody!

Lowest untraveled number: 56

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: BlueOutback7 on February 09, 2023, 10:29:09 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 09, 2023, 10:24:29 AM
I-87 should be signed Albany south of I-287. I don't like control bridges and I-87 is the main road form NYC to upstate, and Albany is one of the biggest cities upstate.

Albany is signed for I-87 north at its southern end at I-278.
I know. Someone said it shouldn't, so I was debating that.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Gnutella

Quote from: James on September 17, 2022, 04:30:21 PM
Hmm, so after some consideration, I'm actually fine with the Thruway ignoring Rochester and Syracuse....BUT I feel like it should also ignore Erie and just sign straight for Cleveland because I'm pretty sure Rochester and Syracuse are both bigger than Erie. 

Heck, maybe you could even sign it for Pittsburgh/Cleveland to reflect the later junction with I-79.

Or use Erie/Cleveland as dual control cities west of Buffalo, but have a trailblazer sign on I-90 westbound near the I-190 junction that reads


TO [I-79] South
Pittsburgh
FOLLOW [I-90][NYS Thruway] West

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Gnutella on February 16, 2023, 11:15:50 PM
Quote from: James on September 17, 2022, 04:30:21 PM
Hmm, so after some consideration, I'm actually fine with the Thruway ignoring Rochester and Syracuse....BUT I feel like it should also ignore Erie and just sign straight for Cleveland because I'm pretty sure Rochester and Syracuse are both bigger than Erie. 

Heck, maybe you could even sign it for Pittsburgh/Cleveland to reflect the later junction with I-79.

Or use Erie/Cleveland as dual control cities west of Buffalo, but have a trailblazer sign on I-90 westbound near the I-190 junction that reads


TO [I-79] South
Pittsburgh
FOLLOW [I-90][NYS Thruway] West
I would use Erie at most minor intersections but would put Cleveland on the mileage signs and with Erie at major intersections. PA puts Buffalo on mileage signs even before Erie so there is precedence.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

machias

Rochester is signed on overhead signs in Buffalo. You can't read them because of the reflective tape, but it's signed. I *think* they're pasted over Niagara Falls, when traffic to Niagara Falls from the west was encouraged to use I-290 instead of I-190, and then when they replaced the signs with the non-reflective Clearview junk they kept "Rochester"  on the overhead signs.

Flint1979

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2023, 12:21:54 AM
Quote from: Gnutella on February 16, 2023, 11:15:50 PM
Quote from: James on September 17, 2022, 04:30:21 PM
Hmm, so after some consideration, I'm actually fine with the Thruway ignoring Rochester and Syracuse....BUT I feel like it should also ignore Erie and just sign straight for Cleveland because I'm pretty sure Rochester and Syracuse are both bigger than Erie. 

Heck, maybe you could even sign it for Pittsburgh/Cleveland to reflect the later junction with I-79.

Or use Erie/Cleveland as dual control cities west of Buffalo, but have a trailblazer sign on I-90 westbound near the I-190 junction that reads


TO [I-79] South
Pittsburgh
FOLLOW [I-90][NYS Thruway] West
I would use Erie at most minor intersections but would put Cleveland on the mileage signs and with Erie at major intersections. PA puts Buffalo on mileage signs even before Erie so there is precedence.
Buffalo is only about 90 miles from Erie so it makes perfect sense for them to put Buffalo on milage signs. Erie is still the control city until you get to I-79, then it's Buffalo going east.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Flint1979 on February 22, 2023, 07:25:34 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 17, 2023, 12:21:54 AM
Quote from: Gnutella on February 16, 2023, 11:15:50 PM
Quote from: James on September 17, 2022, 04:30:21 PM
Hmm, so after some consideration, I'm actually fine with the Thruway ignoring Rochester and Syracuse....BUT I feel like it should also ignore Erie and just sign straight for Cleveland because I'm pretty sure Rochester and Syracuse are both bigger than Erie. 

Heck, maybe you could even sign it for Pittsburgh/Cleveland to reflect the later junction with I-79.

Or use Erie/Cleveland as dual control cities west of Buffalo, but have a trailblazer sign on I-90 westbound near the I-190 junction that reads


TO [I-79] South
Pittsburgh
FOLLOW [I-90][NYS Thruway] West
I would use Erie at most minor intersections but would put Cleveland on the mileage signs and with Erie at major intersections. PA puts Buffalo on mileage signs even before Erie so there is precedence.
Buffalo is only about 90 miles from Erie so it makes perfect sense for them to put Buffalo on milage signs. Erie is still the control city until you get to I-79, then it's Buffalo going east.
But it's PA and you know how they sign control cities most of the time.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5



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