Why does the NYS Thruway not sign for Rochester and Syracuse?

[kalvado]

As an out-of-stater but with a fairly good grasp of geography, I know where Buffalo, Albany and New York are. I have a general idea that Rochester and Syracuse are somewhere east of Buffalo, but I'm not sure how far east nor do I always remember which comes first. As far as anything in the Hudson Valley between NYC and Albany, forget knowing where anything really is.

I'd bet it would be like someone from New York or Mass knowing that there are cities in Michigan named Battle Creek and Kalamazoo, and that maybe they'd know they were between Detroit and Chicago, but they couldn't really place them given a blank map.

Syracuse is twice the size of Kalamazoo and it has a major university. (Sorry WMU, you don't count as major). It also has over half a million in metro population, Kalamazoo is only about 200K. Rocheste is even bigger than Syracuse. Battle Creek is smaller than even Utica.

Since NY population is twice that of Michigan, that ends up as regionally comparable cities...

Why does it matter whether New York City, almost 200 miles away, is there as opposed to being somehow absent or being in New Jersey (in which case Michigan and New York would have similar populations)?

And Detroit MSA is half of MI population.

There are interesting concepts of prominence and isolation in geography.  Isolation of peak is how far the nearest higher point is; and prominence is how low you need to go down to reach higher elevation (possibly not the same as nearest one!)
So isolation of a city (MSA) would be the distance to the nearest bigger city, if we use the similarity. Would be fun to look at those.
Back to original topic, isolation of both Syracuse and Rochester isn't great as Buffalo isn;t far from Rochester; and ROchester in turn not far from Syracuse which is smaller than both Buffalo and Rochester. Less than 100 miles for both cases
Now someone may try the same thing for Michigan?

[Flint1979]

As an out-of-stater but with a fairly good grasp of geography, I know where Buffalo, Albany and New York are. I have a general idea that Rochester and Syracuse are somewhere east of Buffalo, but I'm not sure how far east nor do I always remember which comes first. As far as anything in the Hudson Valley between NYC and Albany, forget knowing where anything really is.

I'd bet it would be like someone from New York or Mass knowing that there are cities in Michigan named Battle Creek and Kalamazoo, and that maybe they'd know they were between Detroit and Chicago, but they couldn't really place them given a blank map.

Syracuse is twice the size of Kalamazoo and it has a major university. (Sorry WMU, you don't count as major). It also has over half a million in metro population, Kalamazoo is only about 200K. Rocheste is even bigger than Syracuse. Battle Creek is smaller than even Utica.

Since NY population is twice that of Michigan, that ends up as regionally comparable cities...

Upstate New York is kind of like its own state. About as much connection between Syracuse and NYC as Kalamazoo and Chicago.

Well Kalamazoo and Chicago are 150 miles apart, Syracuse and NYC are 250 miles apart and the fastest route isn't the NYS Thruway it's I-81 to I-84 to I-380 to I-80 to I-95.

[GaryV]

As an out-of-stater but with a fairly good grasp of geography, I know where Buffalo, Albany and New York are. I have a general idea that Rochester and Syracuse are somewhere east of Buffalo, but I'm not sure how far east nor do I always remember which comes first. As far as anything in the Hudson Valley between NYC and Albany, forget knowing where anything really is.

I'd bet it would be like someone from New York or Mass knowing that there are cities in Michigan named Battle Creek and Kalamazoo, and that maybe they'd know they were between Detroit and Chicago, but they couldn't really place them given a blank map.

Syracuse is twice the size of Kalamazoo and it has a major university. (Sorry WMU, you don't count as major). It also has over half a million in metro population, Kalamazoo is only about 200K. Rocheste is even bigger than Syracuse. Battle Creek is smaller than even Utica.

I don't see what the difference is. They are all major cities in their respective states. Western Michigan is a pretty major university btw.

I'm saying that for outsiders not from Upstate NY or Michigan, Rochester/Syracuse are probably better known than Kalamazoo/Battle Creek due to being much bigger cities.

Which was my point exactly. For people from outside the respective areas, neither Rochester/Syracuse nor Kalamazoo/Battle Creek are that well known. You might know they exist, but you don't know where they are or what roads go to/near them.

[Roadgeekteen]

As an out-of-stater but with a fairly good grasp of geography, I know where Buffalo, Albany and New York are. I have a general idea that Rochester and Syracuse are somewhere east of Buffalo, but I'm not sure how far east nor do I always remember which comes first. As far as anything in the Hudson Valley between NYC and Albany, forget knowing where anything really is.

I'd bet it would be like someone from New York or Mass knowing that there are cities in Michigan named Battle Creek and Kalamazoo, and that maybe they'd know they were between Detroit and Chicago, but they couldn't really place them given a blank map.

Syracuse is twice the size of Kalamazoo and it has a major university. (Sorry WMU, you don't count as major). It also has over half a million in metro population, Kalamazoo is only about 200K. Rocheste is even bigger than Syracuse. Battle Creek is smaller than even Utica.

I don't see what the difference is. They are all major cities in their respective states. Western Michigan is a pretty major university btw.

I'm saying that for outsiders not from Upstate NY or Michigan, Rochester/Syracuse are probably better known than Kalamazoo/Battle Creek due to being much bigger cities.

Which was my point exactly. For people from outside the respective areas, neither Rochester/Syracuse nor Kalamazoo/Battle Creek are that well known. You might know they exist, but you don't know where they are or what roads go to/near them.

But I'm pretty sure that the NY duo are more famous due to them being much bigger cities, and Syracuse having an ACC Power 5 school.

[hotdogPi]

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

[Roadgeekteen]

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

[GaryV]

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

You ever heard of the University of Michigan? I guess Ann Arbor should be a control city too.

[Flint1979]

How many Rochester's are there in the US? There's one in New York, one in Michigan and one in Minnesota that I know of off the top of my head.

[Flint1979]

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

Well Kellogg's is a pretty well known brand. Probably more well known than Syracuse University.

[Roadgeekteen]

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

You ever heard of the University of Michigan? I guess Ann Arbor should be a control city too.

Wouldn't be completely opposed to signing Ann Arbor in Detroit, especially as a secondary. Chicago works just fine however. Having a big college doesn't make a control city, but would Tuscoloosa be one with Bama? Or would they just skip to Meridian and Birmingham?

How many Rochester's are there in the US? There's one in New York, one in Michigan and one in Minnesota that I know of off the top of my head.

Never heard of the Michigan one. The Minnesota one is probably the only other one that people may have heard of due to the Mayo Clinic.

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

Well Kellogg's is a pretty well known brand. Probably more well known than Syracuse University.

Sure but chocolate chip cookies were invented in Whitman, Massachusetts. Should be sign Whitman instead of Boston and Cape Cod on MA 3?

[Flint1979]

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

You ever heard of the University of Michigan? I guess Ann Arbor should be a control city too.

Or let's make East Lansing a control city instead of Lansing. I remember on WMMQ they use East Lansing and DeWitt as their broadcast cities on the radio at the top of the hour.

[Flint1979]

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

You ever heard of the University of Michigan? I guess Ann Arbor should be a control city too.

Wouldn't be completely opposed to signing Ann Arbor in Detroit, especially as a secondary. Chicago works just fine however. Having a big college doesn't make a control city, but would Tuscoloosa be one with Bama? Or would they just skip to Meridian and Birmingham?

How many Rochester's are there in the US? There's one in New York, one in Michigan and one in Minnesota that I know of off the top of my head.

Never heard of the Michigan one. The Minnesota one is probably the only other one that people may have heard of due to the Mayo Clinic.

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

Well Kellogg's is a pretty well known brand. Probably more well known than Syracuse University.

Sure but chocolate chip cookies were invented in Whitman, Massachusetts. Should be sign Whitman instead of Boston and Cape Cod on MA 3?

That isn't even a good example.

[Roadgeekteen]

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

You ever heard of the University of Michigan? I guess Ann Arbor should be a control city too.

Or let's make East Lansing a control city instead of Lansing. I remember on WMMQ they use East Lansing and DeWitt as their broadcast cities on the radio at the top of the hour.

I bet that most people that don't live in Michigan probably think that MSU is in Lansing, not East Lansing.

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

You ever heard of the University of Michigan? I guess Ann Arbor should be a control city too.

Wouldn't be completely opposed to signing Ann Arbor in Detroit, especially as a secondary. Chicago works just fine however. Having a big college doesn't make a control city, but would Tuscoloosa be one with Bama? Or would they just skip to Meridian and Birmingham?

How many Rochester's are there in the US? There's one in New York, one in Michigan and one in Minnesota that I know of off the top of my head.

Never heard of the Michigan one. The Minnesota one is probably the only other one that people may have heard of due to the Mayo Clinic.

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

Well Kellogg's is a pretty well known brand. Probably more well known than Syracuse University.

Sure but chocolate chip cookies were invented in Whitman, Massachusetts. Should be sign Whitman instead of Boston and Cape Cod on MA 3?

That isn't even a good example.

I think it's fine. Just because a major company is headquartered somewhere doesn't mean it's control city status. Google is headquartered in Mountain View CA. Should we sign Mountain View on US 101 instead of San Jose and San Francisco?

[Flint1979]

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

You ever heard of the University of Michigan? I guess Ann Arbor should be a control city too.

Or let's make East Lansing a control city instead of Lansing. I remember on WMMQ they use East Lansing and DeWitt as their broadcast cities on the radio at the top of the hour.

I bet that most people that don't live in Michigan probably think that MSU is in Lansing, not East Lansing.

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

You ever heard of the University of Michigan? I guess Ann Arbor should be a control city too.

Wouldn't be completely opposed to signing Ann Arbor in Detroit, especially as a secondary. Chicago works just fine however. Having a big college doesn't make a control city, but would Tuscoloosa be one with Bama? Or would they just skip to Meridian and Birmingham?

How many Rochester's are there in the US? There's one in New York, one in Michigan and one in Minnesota that I know of off the top of my head.

Never heard of the Michigan one. The Minnesota one is probably the only other one that people may have heard of due to the Mayo Clinic.

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

Well Kellogg's is a pretty well known brand. Probably more well known than Syracuse University.

Sure but chocolate chip cookies were invented in Whitman, Massachusetts. Should be sign Whitman instead of Boston and Cape Cod on MA 3?

That isn't even a good example.

I think it's fine. Just because a major company is headquartered somewhere doesn't mean it's control city status. Google is headquartered in Mountain View CA. Should we sign Mountain View on US 101 instead of San Jose and San Francisco?

No because it's a random city in the Bay Area. Battle Creek isn't even a random city in Michigan, it's one of the bigger cities in the state. I never even really said it SHOULD be used as a control city, it wouldn't be a bad choice though.

[kalvado]

How many Rochester's are there in the US? There's one in New York, one in Michigan and one in Minnesota that I know of off the top of my head.

More than 20, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochester
Including 2 in NY and 2 in OH

[Flint1979]

How many Rochester's are there in the US? There's one in New York, one in Michigan and one in Minnesota that I know of off the top of my head.

More than 20, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochester
Including 2 in NY and 2 in OH

That's probably not the most popular name but it seems like theres one in every state.

[Jim]

You ever heard of the University of Michigan? I guess Ann Arbor should be a control city too.

[vdeane]

As an out-of-stater but with a fairly good grasp of geography, I know where Buffalo, Albany and New York are. I have a general idea that Rochester and Syracuse are somewhere east of Buffalo, but I'm not sure how far east nor do I always remember which comes first. As far as anything in the Hudson Valley between NYC and Albany, forget knowing where anything really is.

I'd bet it would be like someone from New York or Mass knowing that there are cities in Michigan named Battle Creek and Kalamazoo, and that maybe they'd know they were between Detroit and Chicago, but they couldn't really place them given a blank map.

Syracuse is twice the size of Kalamazoo and it has a major university. (Sorry WMU, you don't count as major). It also has over half a million in metro population, Kalamazoo is only about 200K. Rocheste is even bigger than Syracuse. Battle Creek is smaller than even Utica.

Since NY population is twice that of Michigan, that ends up as regionally comparable cities...

Why does it matter whether New York City, almost 200 miles away, is there as opposed to being somehow absent or being in New Jersey (in which case Michigan and New York would have similar populations)?

And Detroit MSA is half of MI population.

There are interesting concepts of prominence and isolation in geography.  Isolation of peak is how far the nearest higher point is; and prominence is how low you need to go down to reach higher elevation (possibly not the same as nearest one!)
So isolation of a city (MSA) would be the distance to the nearest bigger city, if we use the similarity. Would be fun to look at those.
Back to original topic, isolation of both Syracuse and Rochester isn't great as Buffalo isn;t far from Rochester; and ROchester in turn not far from Syracuse which is smaller than both Buffalo and Rochester. Less than 100 miles for both cases
Now someone may try the same thing for Michigan?

Meanwhile, the NYC MSA is 101% of NY's population.  And NYC alone (no suburbs) is 42% of NY's population.

[webny99]

FWIW, Upstate NY on its own would be less populous than Michigan because it doesn't have any cities/metro areas the size of Detroit. It would be very similar to Wisconsin in population.

Also, even as a road/geography geek, I still sometimes get mixed up by the cities in Michigan beyond Detroit. I know Flint is north of Detroit, and I know Lansing is roughly in the middle of the state, but couldn't tell you anything beyond that. And which interstates go through which cities? Forget about it. At least in upstate NY you know I-90 hits or comes close to all the major cities (sorry, Binghamton)

[Roadgeekteen]

FWIW, Upstate NY on its own would be less populous than Michigan because it doesn't have any cities/metro areas the size of Detroit. It would be very similar to Wisconsin in population.

Also, even as a road/geography geek, I still sometimes get mixed up by the cities in Michigan beyond Detroit. I know Flint is north of Detroit, and I know Lansing is roughly in the middle of the state, but couldn't tell you anything beyond that. And which interstates go through which cities? Forget about it. At least in upstate NY you know I-90 hits or comes close to all the major cities (sorry, Binghamton)

I know Michigan geography fairly well, and even I can't tell you exactly where Jackson and Battle Creek are. I do know where Saginaw and other Michigan cities generally are.

[Rothman]

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

Well Kellogg's is a pretty well known brand. Probably more well known than Syracuse University.

The city's name ain't Kellogg, though.

[Rothman]

Well, we are all agreed then.  Battle Creek should never be a control city.

[Flint1979]

FWIW, Upstate NY on its own would be less populous than Michigan because it doesn't have any cities/metro areas the size of Detroit. It would be very similar to Wisconsin in population.

Also, even as a road/geography geek, I still sometimes get mixed up by the cities in Michigan beyond Detroit. I know Flint is north of Detroit, and I know Lansing is roughly in the middle of the state, but couldn't tell you anything beyond that. And which interstates go through which cities? Forget about it. At least in upstate NY you know I-90 hits or comes close to all the major cities (sorry, Binghamton)

I know Michigan geography fairly well, and even I can't tell you exactly where Jackson and Battle Creek are. I do know where Saginaw and other Michigan cities generally are.

You know it fairly well but can't tell anyone where Jackson or Battle Creek are? I can right off the top of my head and I could go ask my friend who knows nothing about Michigan outside of Saginaw and ask him where Jackson and Battle Creek are and he'd be able to tell me too. They are both pretty well known cities in Michigan.

[Flint1979]

College sports should have nothing to do with it. The city of Syracuse would be less well known by outsiders but just as important if the university there didn't share a name with the city.

Flint was bringing up cereal, I can bring up college sports. And having a major university does matter in terms of fame.

Well Kellogg's is a pretty well known brand. Probably more well known than Syracuse University.

The city's name ain't Kellogg, though.

You learn this stuff in school. It doesn't have to be the city name, it's pretty well known that Kellogg's is from Battle Creek.

[Flint1979]

FWIW, Upstate NY on its own would be less populous than Michigan because it doesn't have any cities/metro areas the size of Detroit. It would be very similar to Wisconsin in population.

Also, even as a road/geography geek, I still sometimes get mixed up by the cities in Michigan beyond Detroit. I know Flint is north of Detroit, and I know Lansing is roughly in the middle of the state, but couldn't tell you anything beyond that. And which interstates go through which cities? Forget about it. At least in upstate NY you know I-90 hits or comes close to all the major cities (sorry, Binghamton)

It'd be easier for someone like me considering I'm from Michigan but I know where most of the Interstates go in most of the other states. Michigan really isn't hard to get around and get to know. I think off the top of my head I could tell you just about where any state highway, US highway or Interstate highway is and goes. But of course that's from traveling around the state my entire life.