Petition created to merge Dakotas into one state

[kphoger]

So it was just good old-fashioned gerrymandering, just with state lines.

Yep.  Nobody on here complains about gerrymandering as long as the blue states come out ahead, though.

[abefroman329]

So it was just good old-fashioned gerrymandering, just with state lines.

Yep.  Nobody on here complains about gerrymandering as long as the blue states come out ahead, though.

You're right, other than the people who complain about blue states being gerrymandered, no one on here complains about gerrymandering as long as blue states come out ahead.

[KeithE4Phx]

You know, when the Constitution was drawn up, the difference in population between small states and large states was in the tens of thousands.  Today the difference in population between small states and large states is in the tens of millions.  What was crafted as a safeguard against large states running roughshod over small states in federal matters has become the exact opposite as population has concentrated in large cities.  Now a bunch of mostly empty states hold dramatically outsized power.

The only way to change this is to increase the size of the House.  There's no Constitutional limitation of how many seats the House can have, but Federal law has limited it to 435 seats since 1912, when AZ and NM were admitted.  The only exception was in 1959-61, when AK and HI were admitted before the post-1960 census redistricting.  The House had 437 until 1962, when it returned to 435.

If the size of the House were doubled, each Congresscritter would represent roughly 375,000 seats instead of the current 750,000 max.  All single-digit states would get 2 Representatives instead of the current 1, and most of the others would double as well.  California would be one that would not.  It currently has 53 for 37.2M people (2010 census).  Using that same census figure, it would have 99 Representatives, not 106 -- lost power.  I haven't figured out all the states, but I don't think the balance of power would change all that much.

[CtrlAltDel]

If the size of the House were doubled, each Congresscritter would represent roughly 375,000 seats instead of the current 750,000 max.  All single-digit states would get 2 Representatives instead of the current 1, and most of the others would double as well.  California would be one that would not.  It currently has 53 for 37.2M people (2010 census).  Using that same census figure, it would have 99 Representatives, not 106 -- lost power.  I haven't figured out all the states, but I don't think the balance of power would change all that much.

I've gone ahead and done the math, and my calculations don't quite agree with yours. I have each state having at least two representatives, as you do, but I have CA with 105, and not 99. I admit though that I may have made a mistake. The calculations involved aren't difficult, but there are a lot of them.

For the record, this is the apportionment I get:

Code Select Expand

435 870 State

053 105 California
036 071 Texas
027 055 New York
027 053 Florida
018 036 Illinois
018 036 Pennsylvania
016 032 Ohio
014 028 Michigan
014 027 Georgia
013 027 North Carolina
012 025 New Jersey
011 023 Virginia
010 019 Washington
009 018 Massachusetts
009 018 Indiana
009 018 Arizona
009 018 Tennessee
008 017 Missouri
008 016 Maryland
008 016 Wisconsin
008 015 Minnesota
007 014 Colorado
007 013 Alabama
007 013 South Carolina
006 013 Louisiana
006 012 Kentucky
005 011 Oregon
005 011 Oklahoma
005 010 Connecticut
004 009 Iowa
004 008 Mississippi
004 008 Arkansas
004 008 Kansas
004 008 Utah
004 008 Nevada
003 006 New Mexico
003 005 West Virginia
003 005 Nebraska
002 004 Idaho
002 004 Hawaii
002 004 Maine
002 004 New Hampshire
002 003 Rhode Island
001 003 Montana
001 003 Delaware
001 002 South Dakota
001 002 Alaska
001 002 North Dakota
001 002 Vermont
001 002 Wyoming


[hbelkins]

The bigger point here is, "Who pays any attention to a change.org petition anyway?" They aren't worth the paper they're not printed on.

[Roadgeekteen]

The bigger point here is, "Who pays any attention to a change.org petition anyway?" They aren't worth the paper they're not printed on.

I thought that the US government looked at petitions with enough signatures.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

The bigger point here is, "Who pays any attention to a change.org petition anyway?" They aren't worth the paper they're not printed on.

I thought that the US government looked at petitions with enough signatures.

Generally if the target signatures are reached, the government responds with "fuck off and stop wasting our time" , and that's it. I can't ever remember them acquiescing to the demands of a petition.

[MikieTimT]

But both states are very Republican.

Merge Connecticut and Rhode Island as a counterbalance.

Alternatively, split off the state of Jefferson from California/Oregon as they really don't want to belong to either anyway and lean Republican.  I feel for those who live near the coast and have to deal with those who have had brain cells corroded by saltwater.

[Scott5114]

The bigger point here is, "Who pays any attention to a change.org petition anyway?" They aren't worth the paper they're not printed on.

I thought that the US government looked at petitions with enough signatures.

That's a different website, and responding to those was only the policy under Obama.

[Takumi]

So it was just good old-fashioned gerrymandering, just with state lines.

Yep.  Nobody on here complains about gerrymandering as long as the blue states come out ahead, though.

You're right, other than the people who complain about blue states being gerrymandered, no one on here complains about gerrymandering as long as blue states come out ahead.

So it's ok to manipulate things when your side comes out ahead? (This is the part where I mention I did not vote for Trump nor do I support him.)

[abefroman329]

So it was just good old-fashioned gerrymandering, just with state lines.

Yep.  Nobody on here complains about gerrymandering as long as the blue states come out ahead, though.

You're right, other than the people who complain about blue states being gerrymandered, no one on here complains about gerrymandering as long as blue states come out ahead.

So it's ok to manipulate things when your side comes out ahead? (This is the part where I mention I did not vote for Trump nor do I support him.)

Where did I say that?

[Roadgeekteen]

So it was just good old-fashioned gerrymandering, just with state lines.

Yep.  Nobody on here complains about gerrymandering as long as the blue states come out ahead, though.

You're right, other than the people who complain about blue states being gerrymandered, no one on here complains about gerrymandering as long as blue states come out ahead.

So it's ok to manipulate things when your side comes out ahead? (This is the part where I mention I did not vote for Trump nor do I support him.)

Gerrymandering is more of a tool used by republicans as most democrats are concentrated is small areas, like cities. I heard though the dems do do some in Maryland.

[kphoger]

I heard though the dems do do

pooing is cool

[abefroman329]

I heard though the dems do do

pooing is cool

de do do do, de da da da

[Takumi]

Baby Shark do do dooo

[Beltway]

I heard though the dems do do

pooing is cool

Vomit stinks and it curves and it makes a sickening sound when it hits the floor.

[Roadgeekteen]

In before lock

[Tonytone]

Ok so back on track, How would we fix all these problems with state borders? Do we send in bills from our respective homes to our congresspeople?


iPhone

[Takumi]

Aside from a possible few minor surveying errors from centuries past, there are no more problems with state borders.

[adventurernumber1]

Aside from a possible few minor surveying errors from centuries past, there are no more problems with state borders.

I might agree with that.

I think the main proposal in this thread I think would be most worthwhile could be admitting Puerto Rico to the union. Doing so does have its obstacles, but I would be interested to see if it could happen.

[Tonytone]

i was referring to this pic, the arguments it presents are pretty good.


iPhone

[triplemultiplex]

Alternatively, split off the state of Jefferson from California/Oregon as they really don't want to belong to either anyway and lean Republican.  I feel for those who live near the coast and have to deal with those who have had brain cells corroded by saltwater.

Same could be said about all the fine, upstanding city dwellers in 'flyover country' surrounded by those who have brain cells corroded by trucker hats and chewing tobacco.

For arguement's sake, I'll propose the one Dakota offset to be DC Statehood.  (Even though I would prefer it just be re-attached to Maryland.  Who cares if the national capital is in a specific state?  Why is that a problem in the 21st Century?  Most federal offices are outside of the District anyway.)

[MNHighwayMan]

i was referring to this pic, the arguments it presents are pretty good.

That's from a webcomic. It's not meant to be taken seriously.

[SP Cook]

IMHO,

- change.org and all other such stuff is just nonsense.

- there will never be a major shuffle of states like dividing, merging, or such, involving more than a minor survey error correction.  The unscrambling and or mergin of the complex state government would be impossible. 

As to the territories:

- The USVI should be merged with the BVI and made independent.  As a side note, the original idea the British had of the entire BWI and what is now Belize forming a single country was better and would have created a country of actual world status and heft.

- Puerto Rico should not become a state until its economy is at least on the level of the poorest state (currently it is about half that).  As a "commonwealth" (that is a poorly translated term, the literal Spanish is better "freely associated state" ) it can pick and choose which federal programs can work there and which do not, as a state every law would automatically apply, which would destroy its economy.  PR also should teach English in schools such that every HS graduate is 100% fluent in both languages.

- The various pacific possessions should become part of Hawaii. 

- DC should be merged with the surrounding counties and cities in Virginia and Maryland, say Montgomery, Prince Georges, Howard, Fairfax, Prince William, and Loudoun along with the cities there in, and form a 51st state, leaving the rest of Maryland and Virginia to be free of those people. 

- People that are "sure" about the "blue" or "red" status of this or that idea, need to look at a little history.  First the entire map has changed many times, just in my lifetime and more over the type of people who make up the two parties has changed at least 3 times just in the last 50 years.  Both will change again, and soon. 

[kphoger]

PR also should teach English in schools such that every HS graduate is 100% fluent in both languages.

I still fail to see what language has to do with statehood.  Not every high school graduate in the 50 states we already have is 100% fluent in English–let alone both languages.