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What’s in a name?

Started by roadman65, November 22, 2021, 12:51:47 PM

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1995hoo

Quote from: Dirt Roads on November 29, 2021, 08:40:47 PM
Quote from: skluth on November 29, 2021, 07:38:48 PM
I think it far more interesting that some people pronounce route like root while others pronounce it like rout.

Even better, where I'm from in West Virginia, we say it both ways.  Its a "root" when you are describing how to travel, and its a "rout" when tacked on to a number.  "You want to take this back 'root' to go over to Huntington, and once you hit 'rout' 10 you'll head on up to the Interstate".

I come from a family where everyone has generally said "rout" (the map above notwithstanding, as both of my parents grew up in Brooklyn). I recall my grandfather grumbling about people who think it should be "root" because he had always said "rout."

However, this thread is making me remember that when I was a little kid (probably first grade) I liked reading Beverly Cleary's "Henry Huggins" books. One of the books was Henry and the Paper Route. This thread is making me recall that when I first read that book, I asked my mom if it should be "paper root" or "paper rout." She suggested that the assigned houses comprise a "root" and that Henry Huggins was to "rout" the papers to each house–effectively distinguishing between "route" as a noun ("root") and as a verb ("rout"). Interesting theory, and I suppose it's consistent with the standard pronunciation of the word "router" as to the piece of electronic infrastructure (I think I've heard one person one time pronounce it like "rooter," and it sounded utterly absurd), though of course that word was unknown to ordinary people like us in the late 1970s when I would have asked my mom that question.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.


triplemultiplex

Calling everything "highway" in Wisconsin gets so ingrained that there's a local TV commercial in southern Wisconsin that refers to it's location "...just off highway I-39".  :pan:
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

ethanhopkin14

#27
Quote from: bwana39 on November 27, 2021, 12:49:06 PM
In Texas ROUTE is never used. We laugh about it pronounced ROOT.

Interstates are almost always called "Interstate X", just "X", or by the local freeway name inside the cities. (Such as LBJ Freeway for IH-635 and the part of I-20 that used to be 635.).

US Highways and State Highways generally are called "Highway X" or Just "X". Of course there are local freeway names (EX US-175 is Hawn Freeway in Dallas. SH-183 is the Airport Freeway in Irving). Except when they are freeways, they are more often referred to by their street names within towns and cities.

Farm to Market Roads are generally called "Farm to Market X", "Farm Road X", or "FM-X" In a couple of cases there are local freeway names attached. (emmett f lowry expressway on FM-1764 in Texas City). In my corner of NE Texas it is generally said FarmMarket -X, leaving out the "to". Sometimes the JUST "X" is used for FM roads.  Generally the street name prevails within a city of town.

Highway is generally anything maintained by the state less than a freeway ; even some rural FM roads. Highways are usually rural.
Freeway is anything controlled access. It may or may not include the tollways.
Street is generally every paved street in a city that is not freeway or tollway.
Turnpike is the universal name for free standing tollways (as opposed to tolled lanes of existing freeways.)

Frontage roads: IN north Texas they are called frontage roads or service roads.  In Houston, they are called feeder roads.

Nice.

In Texas ROUTE is never used. We laugh about it pronounced ROOT. Never, to the point that I never understood until I was in my mid 30's why everyone called it Route 66.

Interstates are almost always called "Interstate X", just "X", or by the local freeway name inside the cities. (Such as LBJ Freeway for IH-635 and the part of I-20 that used to be 635.). Or just LBJ.  In Austin, everyone calls US-290/TX-71 Ben White, but calls US-183, just 183.  Maybe because it has a billion names.  Interstates in Texas are also called I-XX or IH-XX.

US Highways and State Highways generally are called "Highway X" or Just "X". Of course there are local freeway names (EX US-175 is Hawn Freeway in Dallas. SH-183 is the Airport Freeway in Irving). Except when they are freeways, they are more often referred to by their street names within towns and cities. I will say in Austin we call a US highway U.S. Highway XXX.  I think that's because of the street blades here spelling it out exactly like that.  For the most part I think everyone thinks it's awkward to call state highways SH-XX or TX-XX, so instead they all say just XX.

Farm to Market Roads are generally called "Farm to Market X", "Farm Road X", or "FM-X" In a couple of cases there are local freeway names attached. (emmett f lowry expressway on FM-1764 in Texas City). In my corner of NE Texas it is generally said FarmMarket -X, leaving out the "to". Sometimes the JUST "X" is used for FM roads.  Generally the street name prevails within a city of town. Interesting.  I have never heard FarmMarket

Highway is generally anything maintained by the state less than a freeway ; even some rural FM roads. Highways are usually rural.
Freeway is anything controlled access. It may or may not include the tollways.
Street is generally every paved street in a city that is not freeway or tollway.
Turnpike is the universal name for free standing tollways (as opposed to tolled lanes of existing freeways.) I think that comes from one of the first tollways in Texas was the Dallas-Ft. Worth Turnpike.

Frontage roads: IN north Texas they are called frontage roads or service roads.  In Houston, they are called feeder roads. In Austin they are sometimes called access roads and in El Paso they are called gateways!

ran4sh

I prefer to distinguish the words rout, route, and root by pronouncing all of them differently.

Rout has one listed pronunciation in the dictionary.
Route has two listed pronunciations, I use the one that isn't the same as rout.
Root has two listed pronunciations, I use the one that isn't the same as route.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

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LilianaUwU

Quote from: ran4sh on December 01, 2021, 05:31:50 PM
I prefer to distinguish the words rout, route, and root by pronouncing all of them differently.

Rout has one listed pronunciation in the dictionary.
Route has two listed pronunciations, I use the one that isn't the same as rout.
Root has two listed pronunciations, I use the one that isn't the same as route.

Being a native French speaker, I pronounce "route" fairly differently, and pronounce "root" (as in "root beer", the only instance I think "root" is used commonly) as it should be pronounced.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

US 89

Quote from: ran4sh on December 01, 2021, 05:31:50 PM
Root has two listed pronunciations, I use the one that isn't the same as route.

Heh. Today I learned. I didn't believe you until I went to Merriam-Webster, and apparently you can pronounce "root" to rhyme with "put". I have never, ever heard that.

As far as I'm concerned, you have two pronunciations to distribute between three words. "Route" for me can really go either way - as a verb it's always "rout", and it's always "Root 66" ... but at the same time, I find myself saying "State Rout 154" ...

Scott5114

Quote from: US 89 on December 01, 2021, 07:09:17 PM
Heh. Today I learned. I didn't believe you until I went to Merriam-Webster, and apparently you can pronounce "root" to rhyme with "put". I have never, ever heard that.

My mom uses that pronunciation, but usually only in reference to things like tree roots. She wouldn't use it when she's rooting for the Chiefs while drinking root beer.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

andrepoiy

#32
Quote from: 7/8 on November 29, 2021, 10:20:15 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 29, 2021, 08:38:42 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 27, 2021, 11:05:23 AM
Out west, the word "highway" is sometimes combined with a route number as a proper noun–for example, "take Highway 29 south for two hours." I have a brother-in-law in Phoenix whose wife uses that style and it threw me off briefly when she was riding with us here and she said something about "Highway 7" when we were on I-395–it took me a second to realize what she meant because Virginia Route 7 in that area is an arterial (with that portion of said route ordinarily referred to as King Street), and in this part of the country "highway" is a generic term used more to refer to Interstates or similar (example from when I was in law school: "751 was blocked by an accident, so I had to take the highway," with "the highway" meaning US-15/501).

See, that kind of thing fascinates me. I'm originally from Utah where that usage is very much standard, even though the state-maintained roads there are in fact legally "state routes". In fact, it's so standard it is usually what shows up on street signs. Where I grew up north of Salt Lake, the main pre-interstate highway is usually signed as Highway 89, and in conversation you'll either hear that or just "US 89". Likewise, the famous scenic highway in southern Utah is "Highway 12", "SR 12", or maybe "State Route 12" or "State Road 12". I have never heard "Route 89" or "Route 12".

It wouldn't even occur to me that this usage might confuse people from "route" parts of the country.

Yeah, this basically applies to Ontario too. People say "highway" not "route" (which would be pronounced "root"). Here's an example of a sign for Highway 27.


The exception are the 400-series highways, which are "The __" (ex: the four-oh-one).

I wouldn't say that would be a good example due to Highway 27 being downloaded.

Here's a better example of a non-downloaded Ontario Highway which is also referred to as Highway 48.



But that does raise something interesting:
Lots of decommissioned Ontario Highways are still referred to as "Highway X" as their street name, even when it doesn't match the new designation.
For example, York Regional Road 1 in Holland Landing ON is named Highway 11 and used to actually be Ontario Highway 11.
Other decommissioned Highways retained their name (e.g Highway 7 through York Region, Highway 50, Highway 27) and were assigned a corresponding route number.
Some other decommissioned highways have conflicting street name blades. I can't remember exactly which one, but I remember seeing one where they had a "Regional Road X" street blade at one point and a "Highway X" at another point.
Here's an even more interesting case: Ottawa Road 174 in Ottawa is referred to as Highway 174, even though Highway 174 was never the Ontario designation (it used to be Highway 17)

But I'd say Ontario never got the "Route" lexicon because Ontario Highways are called "King's Highways".

Dirt Roads

Quote from: US 89 on December 01, 2021, 07:09:17 PM
Heh. Today I learned. I didn't believe you until I went to Merriam-Webster, and apparently you can pronounce "root" to rhyme with "put". I have never, ever heard that.

We use that phrase all the time in Appalachia (and in the Deep South), but it kinda goes like "rut it out".  I've never seen that phrase spelled out as "root it out", but that is how it was supposed to be spelt (my Mom was an English teacher).

1995hoo

Quote from: US 89 on December 01, 2021, 07:09:17 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on December 01, 2021, 05:31:50 PM
Root has two listed pronunciations, I use the one that isn't the same as route.

Heh. Today I learned. I didn't believe you until I went to Merriam-Webster, and apparently you can pronounce "root" to rhyme with "put". I have never, ever heard that.

....

I'd never heard that either, but now you're making me remember that my father pronounced the word "booger" with the "oo" rhyming with the word "boo" (as in, the sound of disapproval you direct at the ref or the umpire) rather than with "book." It led to great fun when he said it that way at a Boy Scout event and one of the other kids asked, "What the hell is a 'boooo-ger'?"

Returning to the pronunciation of "route," I work directly with three people who are all from different parts of the country (California, Indiana, and Louisiana). I asked them about this issue. The one from California didn't respond; the one from Indiana voted for "rout" except for the "[Root] 66" context (she suggested that's probably due to the song); the one from Louisiana voted for "rout" without comment. My wife grew up in Dayton, Ohio, and she voted for "root" (she also thinks it's because of the ubiquity of "[Root] 66").
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

hbelkins

Anyone else think the famous song about getting your kicks on a famously-decommissioned US route skews the pronunciation of the word "route" toward the way it's pronounced in that song?

Around here, for many years mail was delivered not to street addresses ("1234 Name of Road" or "5678 Highway Number") but to rural routes ("Route 1" or "Rural Route 1, Box 1234") and the word "route" was pronounced "rowt."

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 01, 2021, 07:21:03 PM
Quote from: US 89 on December 01, 2021, 07:09:17 PM
Heh. Today I learned. I didn't believe you until I went to Merriam-Webster, and apparently you can pronounce "root" to rhyme with "put". I have never, ever heard that.

My mom uses that pronunciation, but usually only in reference to things like tree roots. She wouldn't use it when she's rooting for the Chiefs while drinking root beer.

Reminds me of a movie quote, the source of which I cannot recall at this time. "Don't you root for the (name of team, I want to think it was the Tennessee Vols?" The answer was, "Hogs root." Wish I could recall that clip.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

mgk920

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on November 27, 2021, 04:56:40 AM
US Highways and state highways are "route". Freeways are "highways" and sometimes "expressways".

Here in Wisconsin, it is a 'highway'.  Cross the state line into Illinois, it immediately becomes a 'route'.

Mike

mgk920

Really weird in the 'highway' v 'route' v 'root' debate is the Post Office.  In USPS parlance, they make you address mail to a location on a state or county highway as "(grid address number)STATE/COUNTY ROAD XX CITY,ST/ZIP CODE", regardless of how the locals generally say it.

Mike

roadman65

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/52444478111/in/dateposted-public/
To some this could be considered controversial.

However, there is a city in Kansas with this name, but I'm sure it's not politically motivated.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe



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