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Author Topic: Minnesota Notes  (Read 308706 times)

TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1425 on: March 23, 2022, 08:38:18 PM »

MnDOT hasn't done its annual press release of 2022 projects yet (that will probably come in about a week or so), but the first major new 2022 project will kick off Monday on US 10 in Anoka, including extending the freeway northwest past Thurston/Cutters Grove and replacing the Rum River bridge. This is one of the most decrepit stretches of freeway in the metro and long overdue for upgrades.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy10-anoka/index.html
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Great Lakes Roads

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1426 on: March 23, 2022, 10:39:57 PM »

MnDOT hasn't done its annual press release of 2022 projects yet (that will probably come in about a week or so), but the first major new 2022 project will kick off Monday on US 10 in Anoka, including extending the freeway northwest past Thurston/Cutters Grove and replacing the Rum River bridge. This is one of the most decrepit stretches of freeway in the metro and long overdue for upgrades.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projects/hwy10-anoka/index.html

I am 100% certain that new exit numbers will be added along that stretch in Anoka.
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1427 on: March 23, 2022, 11:58:43 PM »

The single-lane traffic on 10 through Anoka this year is going to be painful.  VERY painful.
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Trademark

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1428 on: March 24, 2022, 12:00:35 AM »

The single-lane traffic on 10 through Anoka this year is going to be painful.  VERY painful.

If only Northstar Commuter Rail wasn't a joke
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1429 on: March 24, 2022, 12:46:50 AM »

The single-lane traffic on 10 through Anoka this year is going to be painful.  VERY painful.

If only Northstar Commuter Rail wasn't a joke

Well, you can thank certain political persuasions in St. Paul for that. But hey, the upcoming Twins season will be an unrestricted 81-game slate to try to offset some of the costs... :/
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jakeroot

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1430 on: March 24, 2022, 08:48:20 PM »

Sharing this from the Double Permissive Left Turns thread, has anyone been to Elk River and seen the new signal at US-10 and Proctor Ave and may be able to comment on how it operates?

I found a third [double permissive left turn involving an option lane] in Elk River.

Could you indicate where? I glanced around but didn't see any specific locations with the option-lane double permissive left turn setup like the two just mentioned.

So, this is what happens when I don't proofread my own posts because I post too late at night.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3077572,-93.5774317,3a,75y,184.13h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1skLHdqbvOPrTIFWd3Mw33dg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DkLHdqbvOPrTIFWd3Mw33dg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D182.91048%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Sorry for the runaround.

All good! Thanks for sharing that. No wonder I didn't spot it while browsing overhead, it was just installed and not shown on globe satellite view. Although it is shown on non-globe satellite view...note to self, turn off globe satellite mode when looking for most recent imagery!

In terms of the setup, it seems like there may be some path overlap. I'm curious when it's set to operate, I'm able to see GSV imagery showing it operating, but it's operating more as a split-phase intersection.
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1431 on: March 25, 2022, 10:47:39 AM »

I highly doubt MnDOT is doing permissive left turns here.  Their modus operandi for signals that include option lanes is split-phase.  I was also under the impression that they were using 4-lens signals for protected-only (why complicate things by having 2 different types of left turn signals), so I'm curious as to why they used 3-lens LT signals on 10 at that intersection, while the intersection at Upland and points west all use 4-lens LT signals.
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Papa Emeritus

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1432 on: March 25, 2022, 11:01:26 AM »

While we're talking about US 169 in Elk River, MNDoT has announced they will be converting 169 to a full freeway through Elk River. Construction begins next month, and will last through 2024.

https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/elkriverfreeway/trafficplans.html

The freeway conversion is long overdue, but making the road one lane in each direction in the construction zones is going to be brutal, especially on Friday and Sunday afternoons when people are driving to / from their cabins.
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1433 on: March 25, 2022, 12:42:45 PM »

169 becoming freeway through Elk River was announced a year or two ago when they got the funding finalized.  It'll be painful, but like with 10 through Anoka, it'll be necessary to get the finished product.  There's other routes that drivers can take up to the lake though...one nice thing about having a road network that at least has some semblance of a grid...
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J N Winkler

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1434 on: March 25, 2022, 01:24:25 PM »

This is just an aside, but I wish MnDOT would simply put the SP number somewhere on spotlight project pages.  It took clicking through four large PDFs to find one that had the SP for the US 169 Elk River improvement (7106-87).  (eDocs tells me that although there was a CMGC procurement in 2019, the construction phase was advertised separately, with bids opened last February 18.  As-awarded plans are not yet available.)
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jakeroot

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1435 on: March 25, 2022, 02:20:29 PM »

I highly doubt MnDOT is doing permissive left turns here.  Their modus operandi for signals that include option lanes is split-phase.  I was also under the impression that they were using 4-lens signals for protected-only (why complicate things by having 2 different types of left turn signals), so I'm curious as to why they used 3-lens LT signals on 10 at that intersection, while the intersection at Upland and points west all use 4-lens LT signals.

Minnesota definitely has option lane double left turns that use permissive phase, they are actually famous (in the traffic control world) for the exact setup they just installed at that Elk River intersection.

The first was in Eden Prairie, here at Valley View and Prairie Center, where Valley View turns and Prairie Center continues south. At least at the time of filming, the permissive mode operated only during off-peak hours. While it's possible that this intersection no longer operates in permissive mode, the brand new intersection in Elk River with the bimodal doghouse is of identical design, so Minnesota must still have some interest in this kind of setup.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 03:47:52 PM by jakeroot »
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1436 on: March 25, 2022, 02:35:26 PM »

All this makes me glad I moved out of Elk River. I used US 10 less often than I-94, but maybe one out of every 5 or 6 commutes to the metro took me down 10 through Anoka.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1437 on: March 31, 2022, 06:41:41 PM »

MnDOT put out its annual spring press release today.

New projects include:
-the aforementioned US 10 new interchange construction, existing interchange improvements, and river bridge replacement in Anoka
-upgrading US 169 in Elk River to freeway between 10/101 and Sherburne CSAH 33 - this as far as I can tell will include eliminating the two left turns currently at the 10/169/101 interchange, so there will no longer be access from EB 10 to NB 169, or WB 10/169 to SB 101
-widening US 14 to four lanes from New Ulm to Nicollet, which next year will finally finish the four-lane link between Rochester and New Ulm
-widening the "North Gap" of MN 23 to four lanes between Richmond and the Paynesville bypass
-roundabout at south junction of US 61 and MN 316 south of Hastings
-RCI at west split of US 53 and MN 194 north of Duluth

Continuing projects
-I-35/535 Can of Worms in Duluth
-grade separating MN 29 and MN 55 in Glenwood
-rehabilitation of I-94 in downtown St. Paul
-US 52 between Zumbrota and Cannon Falls, with the centerpiece this year being a new interchange at MN 57
-rehabilitation of MN 65 Third Ave Bridge in downtown Minneapolis
-completion of new MN 36/Manning Ave interchange near Stillwater

News release: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/news/2022/03/31-construction.html
Full list of projects: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/construction/
« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 06:49:02 PM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1438 on: April 01, 2022, 12:10:04 AM »

-upgrading US 169 in Elk River to freeway between 10/101 and Sherburne CSAH 33 - this as far as I can tell will include eliminating the two left turns currently at the 10/169/101 interchange, so there will no longer be access from EB 10 to NB 169, or WB 10/169 to SB 101

Will still be a full access interchange.  What's happening is that, instead of left turns from 101/169, the left turns will be from 10 for the two movements you mention.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1439 on: April 01, 2022, 12:35:07 AM »

-upgrading US 169 in Elk River to freeway between 10/101 and Sherburne CSAH 33 - this as far as I can tell will include eliminating the two left turns currently at the 10/169/101 interchange, so there will no longer be access from EB 10 to NB 169, or WB 10/169 to SB 101

Will still be a full access interchange.  What's happening is that, instead of left turns from 101/169, the left turns will be from 10 for the two movements you mention.

Oh, I see where I missed those. Thank you. That sucks that it will likely mean at least one new EB-only stoplight on 10 for that WB-SB, maybe an additional mirror WB-only one for EB-NB. I would prefer they have no direct EB 10-NB 169 access at all, and just send that movement down Main St in Elk River since anyone making that transition is likely already doing that anyway.

In an ideal world, they probably could have done away with both EB 10-NB 169 and SB 169-WB 10 and made WB 10-SB 101 a loop ramp.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2022, 12:42:59 AM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1440 on: April 01, 2022, 08:28:15 AM »

I believe MnDOT still has a long-term goal of a full freeway-to-freeway interchange there.  It's also possible that FHWA (given the use of Federal funding) may have frowned on removing existing access movements even though none of the routes is an Interstate, but I'm less certain on that one.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1441 on: April 04, 2022, 10:06:11 PM »

The single-lane traffic on 10 through Anoka this year is going to be painful.  VERY painful.

If only Northstar Commuter Rail wasn't a joke

Well, you can thank certain political persuasions in St. Paul for that. But hey, the upcoming Twins season will be an unrestricted 81-game slate to try to offset some of the costs... :/

Or maybe not.

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/metro-transit-and-anoka-co-cite-costs-as-decision-to-halt-northstar-train-service-to-twins-games/89-4e9e64e2-5e50-4e67-b6b6-f73637bdc151
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Papa Emeritus

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1442 on: April 12, 2022, 08:03:27 AM »

Today's Strib says St Paul is planning to replace two bridges on Kellogg Boulevard, one at the east end of downtown and the other at the west end. The existing bridges will be demolished next year, with replacement bridges opening in 2025. Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/st-pauls-kellogg-blvd-bridges-need-140-million-in-rebuilds/600164218/
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1443 on: April 12, 2022, 06:08:41 PM »

Today's Strib says St Paul is planning to replace two bridges on Kellogg Boulevard, one at the east end of downtown and the other at the west end. The existing bridges will be demolished next year, with replacement bridges opening in 2025. Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/st-pauls-kellogg-blvd-bridges-need-140-million-in-rebuilds/600164218/

For those who aren’t familiar with St. Paul, these are impressive viaducts that unless you know where to look you wouldn’t even really know you weren’t on stable ground. The Science Museum parking ramp if I recall has some of the best views of the underside and supports - and Kellogg’s road deck is a lot higher off the ground than you would think too.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2022, 06:11:19 PM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1444 on: April 13, 2022, 09:45:46 PM »

Was the former US 52 elevated viaduct paralleling N. 4th Street, between 2nd Ave. N. and Interstate 94 in Minneapolis ever to have been part of a downtown Minneapolis freeway? Perhaps connecting Interstate 94 with the former MN 122 SE Washington Ave. spur? Or is it like the Chicago spurs connecting Intestates 90/94 with W. Ohio St. and W. Ontario St., and the one connecting Interstates 55/90/94 with W. Cermak Rd.?
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1445 on: April 13, 2022, 10:09:59 PM »

Was the former US 52 elevated viaduct paralleling N. 4th Street, between 2nd Ave. N. and Interstate 94 in Minneapolis ever to have been part of a downtown Minneapolis freeway? Perhaps connecting Interstate 94 with the former MN 122 SE Washington Ave. spur? Or is it like the Chicago spurs connecting Intestates 90/94 with W. Ohio St. and W. Ontario St., and the one connecting Interstates 55/90/94 with W. Cermak Rd.?

No, those viaducts were related to the completion of I-394 (likely as the spiritual connections between 94 EB-394 EB and 394 WB-94 WB). The 4th St viaduct ramps have shot up to the top of the list of targets for removal in recent years due to the rejuvenation of the North Loop from the decaying industry the area largely was when the viaducts were built. And honestly, few people would miss them if they were torn down.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2022, 10:16:05 PM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1446 on: April 13, 2022, 10:36:40 PM »

Was the former US 52 elevated viaduct paralleling N. 4th Street, between 2nd Ave. N. and Interstate 94 in Minneapolis ever to have been part of a downtown Minneapolis freeway? Perhaps connecting Interstate 94 with the former MN 122 SE Washington Ave. spur? Or is it like the Chicago spurs connecting Intestates 90/94 with W. Ohio St. and W. Ontario St., and the one connecting Interstates 55/90/94 with W. Cermak Rd.?

No, those viaducts were related to the completion of I-394 (likely as the spiritual connections between 94 EB-394 EB and 394 WB-94 WB). The 4th St viaduct ramps have shot up to the top of the list of targets for removal in recent years due to the rejuvenation of the North Loop from the decaying industry the area largely was when the viaducts were built. And honestly, few people would miss them if they were torn down.

Actually, those viaducts are entirely unrelated to I-394 aside from having an entrance to one of the I-394 parking garages.  They were intended solely as a way for I-94 traffic to get into and out of downtown given how I-94 loops around to Lowry Hill to "bypass" downtown proper.
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Papa Emeritus

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1447 on: April 18, 2022, 09:15:20 AM »

Today's Star Tribune says MNDoT has thrown out their previous studies about how to improve Highway 252 through Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center, and will do a fresh set of studies:

https://www.startribune.com/mndot-back-to-square-one-with-redo-of-one-of-states-most-dangerous-roads/600165680/

The article goes on to say that although 252 has five of the state's most dangerous intersections, local community groups are concerned about potential changes to the route.

Personally, I think that, because 252 is a death trap, it should be converted to a full freeway. It's unfortunate that NIMBYs are delaying, and possibly preventing altogether, the needed improvements to the road....just as NIMBYs prevented the safety improvements to US 12 in the west metro that would have saved many lives.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1448 on: April 19, 2022, 03:21:25 PM »

Today's Star Tribune says MNDoT has thrown out their previous studies about how to improve Highway 252 through Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center, and will do a fresh set of studies:

https://www.startribune.com/mndot-back-to-square-one-with-redo-of-one-of-states-most-dangerous-roads/600165680/

The article goes on to say that although 252 has five of the state's most dangerous intersections, local community groups are concerned about potential changes to the route.

Personally, I think that, because 252 is a death trap, it should be converted to a full freeway. It's unfortunate that NIMBYs are delaying, and possibly preventing altogether, the needed improvements to the road....just as NIMBYs prevented the safety improvements to US 12 in the west metro that would have saved many lives.

We had a conversation about 252 a year or two back that the current Brooklyn Center city government seems to be a lot more critical of a full freeway than the previous city administrations had been. I don't know if they had some kind of influence on this.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2022, 03:23:57 PM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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skluth

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1449 on: April 19, 2022, 08:07:25 PM »

Today's Star Tribune says MNDoT has thrown out their previous studies about how to improve Highway 252 through Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center, and will do a fresh set of studies:

https://www.startribune.com/mndot-back-to-square-one-with-redo-of-one-of-states-most-dangerous-roads/600165680/

The article goes on to say that although 252 has five of the state's most dangerous intersections, local community groups are concerned about potential changes to the route.

Personally, I think that, because 252 is a death trap, it should be converted to a full freeway. It's unfortunate that NIMBYs are delaying, and possibly preventing altogether, the needed improvements to the road....just as NIMBYs prevented the safety improvements to US 12 in the west metro that would have saved many lives.

We had a conversation about 252 a year or two back that the current Brooklyn Center city government seems to be a lot more critical of a full freeway than the previous city administrations had been. I don't know if they had some kind of influence on this.

I did a little research on my own. I think I found much the same info as in the Star-Tribune article. I found this article on something called CC Media

Quote
HIGHWAY 252 FREEWAY CONVERSION PROJECT PUSHED BACK

The debate about converting Highway 252 into a freeway through Brooklyn Park and Brooklyn Center continues. The project which aims to reduce crashes has hit another speed bump that will push the finish line back once again.

Construction was supposed to start in 2023, but MnDOT, the Federal Highway Administration, and Hennepin County are going to conduct a more thorough environmental review, known as an environmental impact statement. The review means the project won’t start until 2025.     

“Unfortunately the plans that they did have, had a lot of flaws in them and a lot of violations on the state’s safety codes on how it has to be built,” said Stephen Cooper, who is part of the 252 Safety Task Force. “We had no involvement in this, but apparently the state decided to push things back to do a better job of investigating how to build this right.”

Rest of article linked at headline. But the third paragraph has the part I was interested in.

I had no idea who Mr Cooper is, so more research. The quote below is from his bio on the Task Force page, so here's probably a hint as to why.

Quote
My concerns about the changes to 252 are centered on making sure a safer, more beneficial, road for all of us in Brooklyn Center is created and that we do not lock in a dangerous road for decades to come. Up to now, Brooklyn Center needs have been largely ignored and safety has been de-prioritized so that millions of more cars per year can come down 252, that currently use I 35, 169 or other north-south routes. I have been focused on understanding the strengths and weaknesses of plans for 252 since 2013. Surprisingly, previous plans were proposed and voted on without an environmental impact statement nor disclosing the plans’ failure to follow basic state and federal safety rules. It was only because of community involvement that these fatal weaknesses were revealed. We need a safer, community friendly and less polluting highway 252, not one that locks in the bad planning and execution of the existing road with intersections/interchanges too close together to be safe. To assist at assuring a better 252, the task force has put in thousands of hours learning what the safety rules are and what the risks are for not following them. We have met with virtually every major player involved in the reconstruction, and we have maintained transparency with the community including doing a survey of community attitudes and beliefs about 252 as well as having open meetings and frequent reports to members of the community. A thoughtfully designed 252 can be a great asset to Brooklyn Center and Brooklyn Park. A poorly designed one would waste hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars, harm the community and lock in those conditions for the next generation.

Yes, it does appear it's a NIMBY problem. I will have to say he does have a point. A freeway would effectively bisect their towns and cut off much of both towns from the Mississippi River. There is already a pedestrian bridge over 252 at 85th Av N. My guess is the locals want a lot of mitigation. Sound walls. Several pedestrian/bicycle crossings. Retaining transit stops after expressway conversion. Vegetation along the corridor for both beautification and to reduce pollution. Possibly even a short park/tunnel ala Phoenix I-10. It could simply be satisfying most of the community demands and MN 252 becomes a freeway to MN 610. There will always be some who are against any changes and may want the highway closed altogether, but it's a matter of satisfying the most of the community (including those in minority communities), not every whiny BANANA. 37% of those surveyed are in favor of the freeway according to their own survey. 48% want the speed limit at 55 mph.

I have the impression that as long as we ignore the extremists on both sides, the highway could be improved. The survey seems to emphasize safety as a critical issue. It's going to be tricky but people can learn to compromise. Just ignore the BANANAs.
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