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Author Topic: Minnesota Notes  (Read 317082 times)

J N Winkler

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1575 on: September 02, 2022, 12:43:39 PM »

Not every county with UT roads signs them, either. It seems to just be the arrowhead, and then the counties that seem to require their organized townships to sign their roads with a white square (Beltrami, Aitkin, maybe others).

It really caught my eye that the construction plans provided designs for UT shields, so I checked MnDOT's Standard Signs Manual and verified it has none.  Moreover, while it does have a shield for township roads, it is independent-mount only, suggesting that it is not usual to indicate such roads as overlays on guide signs.

(This is just an aside, but the Standard Signs Manual appears now to be a supplement to the federal SHS.  This means that MnDOT's distinctive Interstate and US route shields are set to disappear.)
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1576 on: September 02, 2022, 02:58:22 PM »

Took a quick look at some MnDOT data.  There are 16 counties that have UT roads...except for Isanti and Chisago (which I would classify as "central"), all of them are in northern Minnesota.  Koochiching is the winner with almost 333 miles.  St Louis County also has over 300 miles, and there are 4 other counties with at least 100 miles.
Surprised there’s nothing in Fort Snelling, but I guess all the non-MN/DOT roads there might be under the jurisdiction of either the DNR or the airport itself.

DNR, DoD, airport, and county....Bloomington Rd and Colville Ave being the county routes.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1577 on: September 03, 2022, 01:03:04 PM »

Is Business 14 still there?

I didn’t see any signage for it on US 14.
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DandyDan

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1578 on: September 04, 2022, 07:35:58 AM »

Is Business 14 still there?

I didn’t see any signage for it on US 14.
Assuming this question refers to Dodge Center, it was there in July when I drove through there and I doubt it would have changed since then.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1579 on: September 04, 2022, 10:05:26 PM »

MnDOT is planning to conduct a speed study on I-35W between 94 and 494 next fall (this news a response to people wondering if/when that section might increase to 60 MPH). My guess would be it'll probably go to 60 south of Lake Street.

https://www.startribune.com/will-the-speed-limit-on-i-35w-in-minneapolis-rise-to-60-mph/600203887/?fbclid=IwAR1fWN5rMsPDrVe73s-K6oitwcEgsBCVU5ZHZJslLFCrv8KmL8ymsj99eDU (paywall)
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Mdcastle

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1580 on: September 07, 2022, 11:19:49 PM »

Is Business 14 still there?
I didn’t see any signage for it on US 14.
Assuming this question refers to Dodge Center, it was there in July when I drove through there and I doubt it would have changed since then.

Still there as of today.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1581 on: September 15, 2022, 01:53:56 PM »

$10 million grant awarded to help fill the last US 212 four-lane gap between Glencoe and the metro (the headline is misleading, as 212 is not entirely four-laned across the state otherwise as it suggests) with hope for the project to begin in 2024.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/federal-grant-awarded-to-reconstruct-last-remaining-two-lane-segment-of-highway-212
« Last Edit: September 15, 2022, 02:01:37 PM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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Molandfreak

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1582 on: September 17, 2022, 12:26:31 PM »

$10 million grant awarded to help fill the last US 212 four-lane gap between Glencoe and the metro (the headline is misleading, as 212 is not entirely four-laned across the state otherwise as it suggests) with hope for the project to begin in 2024.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/federal-grant-awarded-to-reconstruct-last-remaining-two-lane-segment-of-highway-212
The Cologne bypass was built in the 70s and the freeway in the cities was finished in 2008… It’s pretty embarrassing that it took this long to get 212 up to a consistent standard in Carver County. But I guess I’d rather have it this way than have MnDOT completely give up on doing the right thing (looking at you, MN 55 west of Hastings…)
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1583 on: September 18, 2022, 01:12:43 AM »

$10 million grant awarded to help fill the last US 212 four-lane gap between Glencoe and the metro (the headline is misleading, as 212 is not entirely four-laned across the state otherwise as it suggests) with hope for the project to begin in 2024.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/federal-grant-awarded-to-reconstruct-last-remaining-two-lane-segment-of-highway-212
The Cologne bypass was built in the 70s and the freeway in the cities was finished in 2008… It’s pretty embarrassing that it took this long to get 212 up to a consistent standard in Carver County. But I guess I’d rather have it this way than have MnDOT completely give up on doing the right thing (looking at you, MN 55 west of Hastings…)

It's probably not a coincidence that MnDOT finally getting a lot of these long-desired wish-list items done on major outstate corridors (212, TH 23, US 14) coincides with a rather quiet time for major work in the metro. Funding is just a bitch.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1584 on: September 28, 2022, 07:20:55 PM »

A couple minor things in Elk River observed today.

-The control city for westbound US 10 at the 101/169 interchange is being changed from Elk River to St. Cloud. A good decision on multiple fronts.

-Based on some new signs now in place on MN 101, it appears MN 101 will not be having exit numbers added to its freeway segment.
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DJ Particle

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1585 on: September 28, 2022, 11:56:03 PM »

-Based on some new signs now in place on MN 101, it appears MN 101 will not be having exit numbers added to its freeway segment.

I has a sad.  :-(
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Molandfreak

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1586 on: September 29, 2022, 02:25:39 PM »

My guess is that they will try to upgrade and turn back the last section in Carver County in the next few years, and reset mile 0 to I-94 once that is done. The current mile markers haven’t precisely lined up with the CSAH sections of the road since they started upgrading sections of it in Carver County anyway.
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invincor

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1587 on: September 30, 2022, 02:07:28 PM »

That's reminded me of a question that came to mind to me last weekend.

When on US 10 eastbound in the north metro, the last mile marker that I saw on it while it's a solo highway was something like 242.

Then it rides on top of other highways through the metro and doesn't go solo again until after it departs US 61 heading for Prescott, Wisconsin. 
Those last 4 miles of it while it's solo have mile markers around 302. 

There aren't 60 miles between those two points, more like 25 or 30, so where are all those extra miles coming from on that last solo section?
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Bickendan

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1588 on: September 30, 2022, 07:46:07 PM »

That's reminded me of a question that came to mind to me last weekend.

When on US 10 eastbound in the north metro, the last mile marker that I saw on it while it's a solo highway was something like 242.

Then it rides on top of other highways through the metro and doesn't go solo again until after it departs US 61 heading for Prescott, Wisconsin. 
Those last 4 miles of it while it's solo have mile markers around 302. 

There aren't 60 miles between those two points, more like 25 or 30, so where are all those extra miles coming from on that last solo section?
Officially, and signed, it merges onto I-35E and overlaps until I-94/US 12 in St Paul, then follows I-94/US 12 east to US 61, then south on US 61 until they split.
Unoffically...
I-35W s -> MN 36 w -> I-35W s I-94/US 12E -> I-35E n -> MN 36 e -> I-694 s -> I-94/US 12w -> US 61 s :bigass:
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1589 on: October 01, 2022, 01:28:18 AM »

My guess is it's related to inventorying the route. Effectively MnDOT "internally separated" the short Hastings to Prescott piece from the main body of US 10 that runs northwest of I-694. The logpoint suggests this, with a reference point starting at 300 miles for that section.

Or maybe MnDOT hired the same contractors who calibrated the exit numbers for the US 10 freeway in eastern Wisconsin.  :awesomeface:
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texaskdog

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1590 on: October 01, 2022, 02:33:38 AM »

I still want US 10 to be moved to go through River Falls to Ellsworth
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froggie

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1591 on: October 01, 2022, 10:09:18 AM »

My guess is it's related to inventorying the route. Effectively MnDOT "internally separated" the short Hastings to Prescott piece from the main body of US 10 that runs northwest of I-694. The logpoint suggests this, with a reference point starting at 300 miles for that section.

According to MnDOT's Keypoint report (which replaced their former Logpoint), even this is off about a quarter-mile, as the southern US 10/US 61 junction is at US 10's 299.761 reference point.  Though it's quite possible it was calibrated to 300 back when US 10 originally intersected US 61 at what is now 127th St...the current alignment curve into US 61 was built ca. 1980.
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Papa Emeritus

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1592 on: October 02, 2022, 09:38:02 AM »

Today's STrib has an article about how community activists want MN DoT to rip out I-94 through St Paul, to recreate the neighborhood that was destroyed 60 years ago when the freeway was built. Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/public-pressing-mndot-to-think-outside-the-box-in-interstate-94-review/600212058/

Although I'm okay with removing stub freeways like I-375 in Detroit, I think it's LUNACY to rip out a portion of a major through freeway between two large downtowns. I also think building a park over the freeway is a waste of tax dollars that could be used for road related purposes.

What the article doesn't say is that the objective of the light rail line between Minneapolis and St. Paul was to revitalize the neighborhoods affected by I-94's construction. That's why extra stops were added to the light rail line, even though it meant getting between Minneapolis and St. Paul would take longer. I don't see how ripping out a freeway, or adding a park over the freeway, will help the neighborhoods as much as the light rail line was supposed to.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1593 on: October 02, 2022, 03:35:47 PM »

I think ultimately there's too much pressure on MnDOT that something different from what is there now has to happen. The lid option is the best of both worlds (and seems to be favored by some at the state level as last year's legislature set aside a chunk toward the lid) but at least one of the major groups has still declared the lid option to be unacceptable in their view because of air pollution concerns. But while all parties regardless of their views state gentrification is their biggest worry, to me I struggle to see how that doesn't happen with any option beyond the straight rebuild.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2022, 03:44:03 PM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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texaskdog

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1594 on: October 02, 2022, 04:07:38 PM »

Today's STrib has an article about how community activists want MN DoT to rip out I-94 through St Paul, to recreate the neighborhood that was destroyed 60 years ago when the freeway was built. Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/public-pressing-mndot-to-think-outside-the-box-in-interstate-94-review/600212058/

Although I'm okay with removing stub freeways like I-375 in Detroit, I think it's LUNACY to rip out a portion of a major through freeway between two large downtowns. I also think building a park over the freeway is a waste of tax dollars that could be used for road related purposes.

What the article doesn't say is that the objective of the light rail line between Minneapolis and St. Paul was to revitalize the neighborhoods affected by I-94's construction. That's why extra stops were added to the light rail line, even though it meant getting between Minneapolis and St. Paul would take longer. I don't see how ripping out a freeway, or adding a park over the freeway, will help the neighborhoods as much as the light rail line was supposed to.

Some of these movements are so silly.  Nothing wrong with burying freeway but it's very expensive.

Although I could see making 694 into 94 to get some of the out of town traffic to avoid downtown.  Though most people don't drive like that anyway.
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invincor

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1595 on: October 03, 2022, 08:41:13 AM »

Thanks for the answers to my US 10 question.
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invincor

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1596 on: October 03, 2022, 02:50:20 PM »


Or maybe MnDOT hired the same contractors who calibrated the exit numbers for the US 10 freeway in eastern Wisconsin.  :awesomeface:

I think I solved that one a little while ago.  I think those numbers are still on the books from the very beginning when US 10 entered the state at Hudson duplexed with US 12. 
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triplemultiplex

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1597 on: October 03, 2022, 05:02:38 PM »

but at least one of the major groups has still declared the lid option to be unacceptable in their view because of air pollution concerns.

Bah, electric cars will mitigate that problem much more than any freeway teardown/infill/whatever.  It's a bad argument at this point in history.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1598 on: October 03, 2022, 08:32:53 PM »

but at least one of the major groups has still declared the lid option to be unacceptable in their view because of air pollution concerns.

Bah, electric cars will mitigate that problem much more than any freeway teardown/infill/whatever.  It's a bad argument at this point in history.

We had a guy from one of these groups on the radio station I work at for an interview last summer. It wasn't my interview so I couldn't ask him about that point. It did seem really obvious to me at the time though that the pollution argument made less sense with the increase in electric cars.
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Papa Emeritus

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Re: Minnesota Notes
« Reply #1599 on: October 04, 2022, 05:02:30 AM »

but at least one of the major groups has still declared the lid option to be unacceptable in their view because of air pollution concerns.

Bah, electric cars will mitigate that problem much more than any freeway teardown/infill/whatever.  It's a bad argument at this point in history.

We had a guy from one of these groups on the radio station I work at for an interview last summer. It wasn't my interview so I couldn't ask him about that point. It did seem really obvious to me at the time though that the pollution argument made less sense with the increase in electric cars.

Also, even if fewer vehicles are going through the neighborhood after the freeway is replaced by a boulevard, the vehicles that do go through the neighborhood will be emitting a lot more. It takes more energy to accelerate a vehicle from a stop to 35 MPH, than it does for a vehicle to maintain a constant speed of 60 MPH, and the emissions from vehicles that are accelerating away from stop lights will be greater than the emissions from vehicles just cruising along a freeway.

If I 94 is replaced by a boulevard, pedestrian and bicyclist fatalities will also increase, because pedestrians and bikers will be sharing the road with motor vehicles.
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