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Author Topic: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route  (Read 2321 times)

storm2k

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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2021, 02:19:10 PM »

46 should just be NJ 6. You're welcome.

So back to what it was before the Great Renumberings?
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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2021, 07:46:58 PM »

US 46 could have been numbered NJ 46, although that number was already in use at the time of US 46's commissioning in 1936 (NJ 46 became NJ 77 in 1953). Maybe the route should have stayed NJ 6. Too late now.
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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2021, 09:28:56 PM »

US 46 could have been numbered NJ 46, although that number was already in use at the time of US 46's commissioning in 1936 (NJ 46 became NJ 77 in 1953). Maybe the route should have stayed NJ 6. Too late now.
It is NJ 46 internally. I doubt FHWA is going to force the issue, and I doubt NJDOT would care if they had to renumber it to NJ 46. It would probably take a long time to replace all the signs, though, and that might be the sticking point. If it came down to it, you could extend US 46 along I-80 to meet US 209 in PA and call it multi-state on a technicality.

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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2021, 09:39:45 AM »

Interesting that the conclusion was "blame PA".
Interesting, I agree.  One of the things that PennDoT objected to was changing a US route designation that had already been established.  Given that, and given that the proposed US 46 would have swallowed most of US 322 as it existed at the time (with an east terminus in Lewistown), do you think PennDoT would have been more agreeable if AASHO had suggested numbering the entire NYC-Cleveland route as US 322 (instead of US 46)? 

After all, it was just a year or two later that PennDoT agreed to extend US 322 east from Lewistown to Atlantic City.  This extension was redundant with other US routes from Lewistown to Hershey, so one could argue that US 322 could have been extended to NYC instead, and the Hershey-Atlantic City route could've been assigned a different number.
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PurdueBill

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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2021, 02:04:20 PM »

US 46 could have been numbered NJ 46, although that number was already in use at the time of US 46's commissioning in 1936 (NJ 46 became NJ 77 in 1953). Maybe the route should have stayed NJ 6. Too late now.
It is NJ 46 internally. I doubt FHWA is going to force the issue, and I doubt NJDOT would care if they had to renumber it to NJ 46. It would probably take a long time to replace all the signs, though, and that might be the sticking point. If it came down to it, you could extend US 46 along I-80 to meet US 209 in PA and call it multi-state on a technicality.

Is that what they call "pulling a 223"?

(Not exactly the same, as US 223 used to go into Toledo proper but now it extends the less than a mile into Ohio probably mainly to technically be a 2-state route)

I wonder, would NY have gone along with a longer 322 entering it, or would it end on the bridge as 46 does?  NY seems to hate US routes so one wonders.
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jemacedo9

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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2021, 02:19:45 PM »

Interesting that the conclusion was "blame PA".
Interesting, I agree.  One of the things that PennDoT objected to was changing a US route designation that had already been established.  Given that, and given that the proposed US 46 would have swallowed most of US 322 as it existed at the time (with an east terminus in Lewistown), do you think PennDoT would have been more agreeable if AASHO had suggested numbering the entire NYC-Cleveland route as US 322 (instead of US 46)? 

After all, it was just a year or two later that PennDoT agreed to extend US 322 east from Lewistown to Atlantic City.  This extension was redundant with other US routes from Lewistown to Hershey, so one could argue that US 322 could have been extended to NYC instead, and the Hershey-Atlantic City route could've been assigned a different number.

The x22s are all a mess. 
I believe US 122 was intrastate and that's why that was decommissioned.
US 222 doesn't serve a major purpose south of of Lancaster PA and barely goes into MD.  And really, PA 272 is the better route south of Lancaster anyway.
US 322 really could be split into two routes instead of the long concurrency with US 22 (and really, this is where the US 46 routing would make sense.)
US 422 IS split into two routes...and the eastern portion, though important, is an intrastate route and should be a state route.
US 522 really could be split into two routes, where the northern portion could be an state route.

Really...US 46 could travel from Cleveland to Lewisburg PA over US 322, then take over US 522 northward to Sunbury, then take over PA 61 to Ashland, PA 54 to US 209, be concurrent with that until Lehighton, then PA 248 to PA 512 and then head over to NJ. 
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jemacedo9

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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2021, 02:21:13 PM »

US 46 could have been numbered NJ 46, although that number was already in use at the time of US 46's commissioning in 1936 (NJ 46 became NJ 77 in 1953). Maybe the route should have stayed NJ 6. Too late now.


It is NJ 46 internally. I doubt FHWA is going to force the issue, and I doubt NJDOT would care if they had to renumber it to NJ 46. It would probably take a long time to replace all the signs, though, and that might be the sticking point. If it came down to it, you could extend US 46 along I-80 to meet US 209 in PA and call it multi-state on a technicality.

Is that what they call "pulling a 223"?

(Not exactly the same, as US 223 used to go into Toledo proper but now it extends the less than a mile into Ohio probably mainly to technically be a 2-state route)

I wonder, would NY have gone along with a longer 322 entering it, or would it end on the bridge as 46 does?  NY seems to hate US routes so one wonders.

PennDOT does help out with NJ by way of US 206 entering PA for a tiny distance to US 209.  Older maps showed a US 206/US 209 concurrency so that US 206 could meet up with US 6 in Milford.
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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2021, 06:07:22 PM »

Interesting that the conclusion was "blame PA".
Interesting, I agree.  One of the things that PennDoT objected to was changing a US route designation that had already been established.  Given that, and given that the proposed US 46 would have swallowed most of US 322 as it existed at the time (with an east terminus in Lewistown), do you think PennDoT would have been more agreeable if AASHO had suggested numbering the entire NYC-Cleveland route as US 322 (instead of US 46)? 

After all, it was just a year or two later that PennDoT agreed to extend US 322 east from Lewistown to Atlantic City.  This extension was redundant with other US routes from Lewistown to Hershey, so one could argue that US 322 could have been extended to NYC instead, and the Hershey-Atlantic City route could've been assigned a different number.

The x22s are all a mess. 
I believe US 122 was intrastate and that's why that was decommissioned.
US 222 doesn't serve a major purpose south of of Lancaster PA and barely goes into MD.  And really, PA 272 is the better route south of Lancaster anyway.
US 322 really could be split into two routes instead of the long concurrency with US 22 (and really, this is where the US 46 routing would make sense.)
US 422 IS split into two routes...and the eastern portion, though important, is an intrastate route and should be a state route.
US 522 really could be split into two routes, where the northern portion could be an state route.

Really...US 46 could travel from Cleveland to Lewisburg PA over US 322, then take over US 522 northward to Sunbury, then take over PA 61 to Ashland, PA 54 to US 209, be concurrent with that until Lehighton, then PA 248 to PA 512 and then head over to NJ. 

US 122 was taken over by US 202.

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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2021, 07:27:59 PM »

The second US 122 was Northumberland-Oxford (replaced 120 north of Reading).

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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2021, 07:31:56 PM »

US 22 has a lot of child routes for a pretty short parent route in comparison. US 40, a formally transcon route, only goes up to 340, and that is still in the east coast states.
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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2021, 10:17:35 PM »

The second US 122 was Northumberland-Oxford (replaced 120 north of Reading).

And now PA 0061
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storm2k

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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2021, 03:08:23 PM »

US 22 has a lot of child routes for a pretty short parent route in comparison. US 40, a formally transcon route, only goes up to 340, and that is still in the east coast states.

Not sure why they couldn't have 322 be an x40 from Mays Landing thru Hershey or Harrisburg and let 322 branch out west from there.

As for 46, why not let it go into PA and follow 611 and roads up to Scranton.
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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2021, 07:47:15 AM »

US 46 could have been numbered NJ 46, although that number was already in use at the time of US 46's commissioning in 1936 (NJ 46 became NJ 77 in 1953). Maybe the route should have stayed NJ 6. Too late now.
It is NJ 46 internally. I doubt FHWA is going to force the issue, and I doubt NJDOT would care if they had to renumber it to NJ 46. It would probably take a long time to replace all the signs, though, and that might be the sticking point. If it came down to it, you could extend US 46 along I-80 to meet US 209 in PA and call it multi-state on a technicality.

Is that what they call "pulling a 223"?

(Not exactly the same, as US 223 used to go into Toledo proper but now it extends the less than a mile into Ohio probably mainly to technically be a 2-state route)

I wonder, would NY have gone along with a longer 322 entering it, or would it end on the bridge as 46 does?  NY seems to hate US routes so one wonders.

More like "pulling a 131".  US-131 ended at the Michigan-Indiana state line for years until it was extended a grand total of less than a mile to reach I-80/90.
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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2021, 08:48:42 AM »

US 24 wouldn't work in NJ because it would be very close to NJ 24.
It works fine in Michigan with US-24 being close to M-24.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2021, 08:50:01 AM »

US 24 wouldn't work in NJ because it would be very close to NJ 24.
It works fine in Michigan with US-24 being close to M-24.

He means NJ doesn't allow US and State Routes to use the same number.
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Flint1979

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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2021, 08:57:07 AM »

US 24 wouldn't work in NJ because it would be very close to NJ 24.
It works fine in Michigan with US-24 being close to M-24.

He means NJ doesn't allow US and State Routes to use the same number.
He should have said that instead of very close which my point makes.
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paul02474

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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2021, 09:08:59 AM »

Here's a proposal to make US 46 an interesting multi-state route.
1. Remove US 46 from its current routing east of Clifton NJ, restoring NJ 6 from Clifton to Fort Lee.
2. Remove NJ 3 and NJ 495 designation between Clifton and the Lincoln Tunnel, designate as US 46.
3. Use city streets to bring US 46 through Manhattan from the Lincoln Tunnel to the Ed Koch (Queensborough - 59th Street) Bridge.
4. Replace NY 25 designation on Long Island with US 46.
5. Replace NY 25A designation on Long Island with NY 25.
6. Designate the small portion of roadway connecting I-95 and US 1 in New London, with the New London - Orient Point ferry dock as US 46.
7. Replace NY 46 and NY 12D designation with NY 26A.
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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2021, 12:06:00 PM »

US 24 wouldn't work in NJ because it would be very close to NJ 24.
It works fine in Michigan with US-24 being close to M-24.

M-24 is a pseudo-extension of US 24, so it works. This is not the case with US 46 and NJ 24.
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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2021, 01:06:12 PM »

So, how many of these fantasy routes posts do we need to move to the 'Fictional Highways' board?
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Re: Why the US 46 designation was applied to a short intra-state route
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2021, 01:57:14 PM »

So, how many of these fantasy routes posts do we need to move to the 'Fictional Highways' board?
I've had enough to just lock it. We had a fun time, funtime's over.

 


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