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Garden State Parkway

Started by Roadrunner75, July 30, 2014, 09:53:00 PM

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roadman65

Quote from: storm2k on May 13, 2016, 11:15:03 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 12, 2016, 06:23:58 AM
Does anyone remember the pre 1980 days of signing on the NJDOT maintained section between the NJT and US 22?  Its hard to believe, but there were no one mile advance guides except for Exit 140 going NB that was attached to the CR 509 overpass in Kenilworth.

The NJDOT used LGSes and not BGSes either, and they had one at one quarter mile saying Exit xxx NEXT RIGHT followed by one again at one eight of a mile listing the route number or street name.

At Exit 139B there was the only overhead assembly there only because both Chestnut Street and US 22 were within 200 feet of each other.  Another thing of note the at exit sign for US 22 going NB had the control cities of Airport and Tunnel as space limitations prevent the full names of both the Newark Airport and Holland Tunnel from being displayed fully on the one LGS there.

Its interesting how that worked on freeway, which now with the MUTCD stating larger and overhead signs how people now are still having trouble seeing them.  In fact left over copies of the old gore guides were kept at Toms River for NJ 37 for a long time, which is how the 129 to 140 section was all signed back then.

I wish we had pictures of this.
Back in 1980 or before I was only a kid then.  Did not have my own camera then and was too young to drive just for road sign observing.  Its a shame the internet was not up then for the GP, as a lot of good signs were up then and the fact we did not have the fast paced replacements we have now.

Hopefully someone documented it and put them up some place.  Sometimes crazy things happen, and some road agency has a photo or two in the archives like NJDOT had some old Route 1 & 9 photos around Newark Airport of the old wrought iron gantries that used to be there back before they were removed.  Photos with the original panels on them were shared here in the NJ forum not too long ago.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


roadman65

Another thing from memory lane is that before the great 1980 widening, there was a dirt mound in the middle of the Parkway from just north of the Union County Line to US Route 22.  Some old postcard photos show it as even back in the fourth grade, Mrs. Katchen, told us that when the GSP was first built engineers had in mind the glare of headlights at night.  So they put up the mound, to block oncoming headlight glare as well as the wide medians elsewhere.

Of course that was only part of the design feature of the Parkway as it was made also to be with hardly any horizontal sight issues thus making it one of the safest roads around for its time.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

Per a NJTA Press Release ( http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/ADVISORY_Asbury_tolls_traffic.pdf ), the lane stripping between this toll plaza and Express/Local lane split ( https://goo.gl/maps/jtHWjwE4W9C2 ) has been revised and repainted.

Previously, the 3 EZ Pass lanes split so that the left 2 lanes went into the express lanes, and the right lane directed motorists to the local lanes.  Additionally, the stripping was as such so motorists using the traditional lanes could merge left into the express lanes.

Now, the left EZ Pass lane will take motorists into the express lane.  The center EZ Pass lane splits to both the express & local lanes, and the right EZ Pass lane goes to the local lanes.  In addition, the stripping will be as such where motorists using the traditional booths will not be permitted to cross into the Express lanes.  (Without a barrier, I can't see how this is going to stop some motorists from merging left anyway.)

bzakharin

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 16, 2016, 10:43:07 AM
Per a NJTA Press Release ( http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/ADVISORY_Asbury_tolls_traffic.pdf ), the lane stripping between this toll plaza and Express/Local lane split ( https://goo.gl/maps/jtHWjwE4W9C2 ) has been revised and repainted.

Previously, the 3 EZ Pass lanes split so that the left 2 lanes went into the express lanes, and the right lane directed motorists to the local lanes.  Additionally, the stripping was as such so motorists using the traditional lanes could merge left into the express lanes.

Now, the left EZ Pass lane will take motorists into the express lane.  The center EZ Pass lane splits to both the express & local lanes, and the right EZ Pass lane goes to the local lanes.  In addition, the stripping will be as such where motorists using the traditional booths will not be permitted to cross into the Express lanes.  (Without a barrier, I can't see how this is going to stop some motorists from merging left anyway.)
They are not saying what percentage of the regular toll plaza traffic goes to the express lanes, or what percentage of total traffic uses the non-EZ Pass lanes, but it sounds like they are punishing the exact sort of people who would not have EZ Pass, the long distance travelers who would presumably want access to the express lanes

jeffandnicole

Quote from: bzakharin on May 16, 2016, 11:56:32 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 16, 2016, 10:43:07 AM
Per a NJTA Press Release ( http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/ADVISORY_Asbury_tolls_traffic.pdf ), the lane stripping between this toll plaza and Express/Local lane split ( https://goo.gl/maps/jtHWjwE4W9C2 ) has been revised and repainted.

Previously, the 3 EZ Pass lanes split so that the left 2 lanes went into the express lanes, and the right lane directed motorists to the local lanes.  Additionally, the stripping was as such so motorists using the traditional lanes could merge left into the express lanes.

Now, the left EZ Pass lane will take motorists into the express lane.  The center EZ Pass lane splits to both the express & local lanes, and the right EZ Pass lane goes to the local lanes.  In addition, the stripping will be as such where motorists using the traditional booths will not be permitted to cross into the Express lanes.  (Without a barrier, I can't see how this is going to stop some motorists from merging left anyway.)
They are not saying what percentage of the regular toll plaza traffic goes to the express lanes, or what percentage of total traffic uses the non-EZ Pass lanes, but it sounds like they are punishing the exact sort of people who would not have EZ Pass, the long distance travelers who would presumably want access to the express lanes

This report ( http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/EZPass_Usage_GSP_March_2016.pdf ) doesn't break it down by plaza, but it shows a consistent 78-79% of traffic has been using EZ Pass on the GSP in general, with the exception of July where it dips slightly.  Over 90% of commercial vehicles for the past 5 months of the report has paid their tolls via EZ Pass.

odditude

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 16, 2016, 10:43:07 AMlane stripping
is that what happens when the clubs in AC shut down and the dancers move onto the parkway? :p

Roadrunner75

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 16, 2016, 10:43:07 AM
Per a NJTA Press Release ( http://www.state.nj.us/turnpike/documents/ADVISORY_Asbury_tolls_traffic.pdf ), the lane stripping between this toll plaza and Express/Local lane split ( https://goo.gl/maps/jtHWjwE4W9C2 ) has been revised and repainted.

Previously, the 3 EZ Pass lanes split so that the left 2 lanes went into the express lanes, and the right lane directed motorists to the local lanes.  Additionally, the stripping was as such so motorists using the traditional lanes could merge left into the express lanes.

Now, the left EZ Pass lane will take motorists into the express lane.  The center EZ Pass lane splits to both the express & local lanes, and the right EZ Pass lane goes to the local lanes.  In addition, the stripping will be as such where motorists using the traditional booths will not be permitted to cross into the Express lanes.  (Without a barrier, I can't see how this is going to stop some motorists from merging left anyway.)
It's about time they did this.  But I'm surprised for the reason stated, and not the fact that the previous condition created a terrible weave situation, with cash toll users just accelerating from the booths weaving two lanes across high speed traffic into the express lanes in a short distance.  I've been cut off many times here when staying in the right Express EZ-Pass lane to stay on the local side.  Someone even complained to the Asbury Park Press's old "Joe on the Go" feature about this a few years ago.  "Joe" spoke with the NJTA, which replied that their engineers found the weave area sufficient (ridiculous).

If there is an issue with access to the express lanes, they can always add a cross-over where there is sufficient room further down the road, similar to the crossovers further north by the PNC Arts Center.

NJRoadfan

I've had a few close calls with weaving motorists at that split. Ideally they would put up some sort of barrier involving those pylons to discourage weaving as we all know solid white lines don't stop idiots. Of course the best solution long term would be to phase in AET.

njunderground


roadman65

The Asbury Park Plaza should have its AET lanes (the ones NJ calls express lanes) dedicated to only Express Lanes while the cash lanes have the option.  Of course those wishing to use the local lanes will have to stop, but do many people from south of Asbury Park go to places like Eatontown, Red Bank, and Holmdel that much?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Roadrunner75

Quote from: roadman65 on May 19, 2016, 12:04:40 AM
The Asbury Park Plaza should have its AET lanes (the ones NJ calls express lanes) dedicated to only Express Lanes while the cash lanes have the option.  Of course those wishing to use the local lanes will have to stop, but do many people from south of Asbury Park go to places like Eatontown, Red Bank, and Holmdel that much?
Yes - Absolutely.  There is a lot of commuter traffic from south of Asbury Park that exits at those locations - myself included for many years.  The press release posted above even supports this with the percentage split from the Express EZ-Pass heading for the local lanes (although 80% as referenced seems high) and the reasoning for now allowing the center lane to exit to local lanes as well.  The reconstruction at 105 to fix the merge/weave and provide a separate signal and ramp for the NB exiting traffic at Hope Road (which was a complete mess when I used to commute through it) is a result of the significant amount of traffic that uses this route.  The occasional toll road drivers and those too paranoid or lazy to get EZ Pass can pay the price of staying in the local lanes. 

Even now, when I'm taking the GSP north or south between the Asbury Tolls and the Driscoll, I always use the local lanes anyway to have the ability to exit (escape a jam) and get 3 lanes to the express lane's 2.

bzakharin

I assume there is a correlation between people wanting to use express lanes and those not having EZ Pass. Both are likely to be out of state travelers bringing much needed cash to the Jersey shore   

roadman65

Quote from: Roadrunner75 on May 19, 2016, 01:17:34 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 19, 2016, 12:04:40 AM
The Asbury Park Plaza should have its AET lanes (the ones NJ calls express lanes) dedicated to only Express Lanes while the cash lanes have the option.  Of course those wishing to use the local lanes will have to stop, but do many people from south of Asbury Park go to places like Eatontown, Red Bank, and Holmdel that much?
Yes - Absolutely.  There is a lot of commuter traffic from south of Asbury Park that exits at those locations - myself included for many years.  The press release posted above even supports this with the percentage split from the Express EZ-Pass heading for the local lanes (although 80% as referenced seems high) and the reasoning for now allowing the center lane to exit to local lanes as well.  The reconstruction at 105 to fix the merge/weave and provide a separate signal and ramp for the NB exiting traffic at Hope Road (which was a complete mess when I used to commute through it) is a result of the significant amount of traffic that uses this route.  The occasional toll road drivers and those too paranoid or lazy to get EZ Pass can pay the price of staying in the local lanes. 

Even now, when I'm taking the GSP north or south between the Asbury Tolls and the Driscoll, I always use the local lanes anyway to have the ability to exit (escape a jam) and get 3 lanes to the express lane's 2.
A lot of people do that.  My friend Frank used to do it coming back from Seaside.  He never took the express lanes at all, as he liked more lanes to weave as he was one that loved to show off! At the time NJ had the National 55 limit, and even with traffic at 65, it was still too slow for him.

Plus the local lanes does not really add more time either as its really the same as its express counterparts.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

Quote from: bzakharin on May 19, 2016, 10:16:45 AM
I assume there is a correlation between people wanting to use express lanes and those not having EZ Pass. Both are likely to be out of state travelers bringing much needed cash to the Jersey shore   

The toll lanes are on the Northbound side.  The Jersey Shore already got their money!  :-D

What's the speed differential between the Express & Local lanes?  In general, there probably isn't much of a difference.

Mr. Matté

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 19, 2016, 10:33:23 AM
What's the speed differential between the Express & Local lanes?  In general, there probably isn't much of a difference.

Per this guy on Reddit, you're not expected to go the speed limit in the express lanes so there has to be a huge difference.

bzakharin

There is a new traffic pattern Northbound between exits 36 and 38A as of last night. Everything is shifted to the right, to the newly paved roadway. The entrance from Fire Road finally has a decent acceleration lane again. Otherwise the layout is unchanged, just shifted, 2 through lanes, no shoulders, single exit lanes for 38 and 38A.

Roadrunner75

"Ask Commuting Larry" article today on NJ.com about why a full interchange was never built between the Parkway and NJ 18:

http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2016/06/why_was_a_full_parkway_interchange_to_route_18_never_built.html#incart_river_home

To me, it seems pretty obvious that one major factor was that the Parkway didn't want to encourage shunpiking on the free, parallel portion of 18 south of the interchange.  A direct SB GSP to SB 18 ramp would send a lot more evening commuter and shore traffic onto 18, who would use that road to at least avoid the tolls at exit 98.  Same goes for the NB commute.  The DOT might not have wanted to add that much GSP traffic onto that portion of 18 either. 

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 02, 2016, 01:50:48 PM
"Ask Commuting Larry" article today on NJ.com about why a full interchange was never built between the Parkway and NJ 18:

http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2016/06/why_was_a_full_parkway_interchange_to_route_18_never_built.html#incart_river_home

To me, it seems pretty obvious that one major factor was that the Parkway didn't want to encourage shunpiking on the free, parallel portion of 18 south of the interchange.  A direct SB GSP to SB 18 ramp would send a lot more evening commuter and shore traffic onto 18, who would use that road to at least avoid the tolls at exit 98.  Same goes for the NB commute.  The DOT might not have wanted to add that much GSP traffic onto that portion of 18 either. 

There's probably a long, complicated history behind it.  NJ 18 didn't exist when the GSP was built, as mentioned in the article.  There was already an interchange right where 18 does cross over the GSP.  18 was never completed south of 195...and 195 wasn't there when the GSP was built either. 

It looks like they did try doing something which only involved a single intersection with a traffic light light at the time - Entering/Exiting at Interchange 105, going thru the tolls, turning onto/off of Hope Rd., and then using 18.  Today, that movement is completely free going south, but encounters a ramp plaza going north.

Remember, in the 1990's and prior the barrier tolls as the southern end of the local/express lanes were for both directions  In the early 00's, they were converted to 1 way tolls Northbound only.  Today, Southbound GSP motorists can exit at Exit 102 & 100B free of the tolls one encounters exiting at Exits 105 & 98, giving them access to 18, but it doesn't exactly give them easy, direct access to 18.

I took a look at Historic Aerials.  In 1979 you can see they were building Rt. 18 to the west of the GSP, but nothing to the east in that immediate area.  There's never anything available in the 80's on that website.  In 1995, you can see the area completely built up, with the road network all there. 

My guess is there's more to it than just shunpiking, because they could've just added some more ramp tolls.  There seems to be a relatively easy connection as mentioned above, involving tolls. There's probably some answers in the planning materials if someone took the time to dig, but to answer a general question for Larry's column no one's going to take the time and the money to look that up.

Alps

I think it had to do with... :drumroll: environmental issues. They wanted a smaller interchange footprint and so only put in some ramps. They are in the process of modifying the interchange and adding another ramp (SB to Wayside Road) that will help ease access to 18 South. (NB is still SOL.) I don't think NJTA is opposed to studying a couple of additional flyover ramps, but they would have to see a net benefit to justify them. At least the NB flyover would be tolled.

Roadrunner75

I remember the gap in 18 east of the GSP, when they were building the interchange with 36 in the early 90s.  I certainly have no doubt environmental issues were a major factor - dealing with DEP is definitely not fun - as well as cost.  I would think though there would have been some lack of enthusiasm on the NJHA and DOT's part for providing those direct movements to not dump that traffic on 18 as well.  Hope Road could be a very poor connector at times.  I used to commute on Hope between 105 and Wyckoff Road and this stretch was typically a backed-up mess and desperately needed 4 lanes and some signal timing adjustments at Wyckoff.  As usual, the ramp improvements at 105 to fix the merge at Hope came just after I could have benefitted from them.

storm2k

Signage update: they're making a lot of progress (and quickly) north of 142. SB, it looks like 143 will be renumbered to 143C and they are going to reverse 143B and 143A so they're in the correct order.

roadman65

Quote from: storm2k on June 12, 2016, 10:13:54 PM
Signage update: they're making a lot of progress (and quickly) north of 142. SB, it looks like 143 will be renumbered to 143C and they are going to reverse 143B and 143A so they're in the correct order.
Its about time!
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

storm2k

Also, fot 156 NB, it doesn't mention 46 anymore, just NJ-20 NB and Elmwood Park for a control city.

Roadgeek Adam

Pictures I saw on Facebook note that 155 (Hazel Street) is being switched. My bet is to 155B while 155P becomes A, permanently putting the Paterson Peripheral system to bed.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

storm2k

Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on June 13, 2016, 08:59:53 PM
Pictures I saw on Facebook note that 155 (Hazel Street) is being switched. My bet is to 155B while 155P becomes A, permanently putting the Paterson Peripheral system to bed.

Not sure, they had the exit tabs covered, I could tell there were "Formerly exit XXX" tabs as well.



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