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Theory: Cost is a more important factor than NIMBYism in freeway cancellations

Started by kernals12, February 02, 2021, 08:29:22 PM

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kernals12



SEWIGuy

Quote from: Brandon on February 07, 2021, 03:58:52 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 07, 2021, 03:38:28 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 07, 2021, 03:22:48 PM
I would say, based on the experience we have here with IL-53 in lake County, that the social-economic status of the NIMBYs is far more important than cost.  The IL-53 freeway could be built, and fairly cheaply as IDOT owns the ROW.  However, two suburbs with a lot of rich folks stand in the way, Long Grove and Hawthorn Woods.  Neither group of rich assholes wants the freeway built as it would "destroy their rural lifestyle".  Their "rural lifestyle" consists of living on overburdened two-lane roads while commuting to Schaumburg, Oak Brook, or Chicago for work.  They have money and therefore, they have clout.

The "rich assholes" have rights too you know.

The reason NIMBYs exist is often because road networks have been built without consideration of the impact on the neighborhoods involved.

OK, how does "rich hypocritical fucking assholes" suit you?  They bought knowing full well that IL-53 was planned and that the ROW was purchased by IDOT.  These jackasses have theirs and don't want anyone else to have.  Fuck them.


WTF does "don't want anyone else to have" mean?  It's a highway of dubious need with little net benefit to the region.

kphoger

Quote from: kernals12 on February 07, 2021, 04:53:04 PM

Quote from: kphoger on February 07, 2021, 04:25:06 PM

Quote from: kernals12 on February 07, 2021, 03:37:26 PM

Quote from: 1 on February 07, 2021, 03:22:57 PM

Quote from: kernals12 on February 07, 2021, 03:20:21 PM
And this is why our freeway mileage outnumbers our transit mileage by a few orders of magnitude.

48,000 + additions + non-Interstate freeways nowhere close to even one order of magnitude more than 21,000 (Amtrak mileage, and this doesn't count commuter rail).

It's not really fair to include Amtrak lines that almost nobody uses.

So were you only including urban freeway miles, then?

I don't think it's fair to include I-10 in western Texas under "freeway miles" if it isn't fair to include Amtrak under "transit".

Amtrak ridership is about .1% of all domestic travel. Americans travel nearly 1,000 times more miles by car or motorcycle than by Amtrak. Also, has Amtrak built any new rail lines since it started in 1971?

That means "yes".  Right?

According to the article you linked to, Amtrak passenger-mileage was equal to more than 10% of urban transit passenger-mileage.

If you're counting rural freeways, then you should count rural modes of transit.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Concrete Bob

Quote from: MaxConcrete on February 07, 2021, 10:33:36 PM
This image appears in the article referenced by kernals12. Where is this? Was this a partially complete freeway which was later finished, or was this an artifact later demolished?

Looks like Interstate 280 in San Francisco's China Basin area.  The 280 freeway stub was torn down, and became a new commercial area around Giants Stadium.  Interstate 280 was truncated to end at Sixth Street in San Francisco, about a third of a mile south of Interstate 80. 

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Concrete Bob on February 13, 2021, 11:54:26 PM
Quote from: MaxConcrete on February 07, 2021, 10:33:36 PM
This image appears in the article referenced by kernals12. Where is this? Was this a partially complete freeway which was later finished, or was this an artifact later demolished?

Looks like Interstate 280 in San Francisco's China Basin area.  The 280 freeway stub was torn down, and became a new commercial area around Giants Stadium.  Interstate 280 was truncated to end at Sixth Street in San Francisco, about a third of a mile south of Interstate 80.

Wasn't there some recent talk about removing I-280 south to US 101?

kphoger

Quote from: Concrete Bob on February 13, 2021, 11:54:26 PM

Quote from: MaxConcrete on February 07, 2021, 10:33:36 PM
This image appears in the article referenced by kernals12. Where is this? Was this a partially complete freeway which was later finished, or was this an artifact later demolished?



Looks like Interstate 280 in San Francisco's China Basin area.  The 280 freeway stub was torn down, and became a new commercial area around Giants Stadium.  Interstate 280 was truncated to end at Sixth Street in San Francisco, about a third of a mile south of Interstate 80. 

The skyscraper at the far right side of the photo...  Is that the Hilton San Francisco Union Square (333 O'Farrell Street)?  Here is a GSV for reference.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kernals12

Also, when Francis Sargent imposed a moratorium on all new expressways within Route 128 in 1971, he was probably just formalizing reality. The Southwest Expressway for instance had skyrocketed in projected cost from $24 million in 1948 to $159 million in 1969. The cost was so high that MassDOT considered imposing tolls.

The Northeast Expressway would've been all but impossible to build in a post-NEPA world. It would've contaminated the Walden Reservoir with road salt, destroyed the Saugus River's wetlands, and spoiled the serenity of Lynn Woods.

And even if Sargent didn't care about the 7,000 residents who would've been displaced by the Inner Belt, Federal laws requiring the provision of replacement housing made it infeasible.



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