The Recreational Value of Highways

[hotdogPi]

MA's insistence that every single piece of asphalt down to parking lots have a double yellow line.

This is not my experience.

Mine too. Plenty of passing zones in Mass. Just not on US 20 where there is wall-to-wall traffic within I-495.

I was actually referring to residential roads that have no line at all. I haven't seen that many dashed yellow lines.

[kernals12]

MA's insistence that every single piece of asphalt down to parking lots have a double yellow line.

This is not my experience.

Mine too. Plenty of passing zones in Mass. Just not on US 20 where there is wall-to-wall traffic within I-495.

Has anyone ever considered widening US 20 to 4 lanes?

[hotdogPi]

MA's insistence that every single piece of asphalt down to parking lots have a double yellow line.

This is not my experience.

Mine too. Plenty of passing zones in Mass. Just not on US 20 where there is wall-to-wall traffic within I-495.

Has anyone ever considered widening US 20 to 4 lanes?

What's really needed is a north-south corridor.

Approximate corridor, but it would be new terrain except for the northernmost 2 miles (use the existing road) and the part that interchanges I-90 (connect it to the ramps on the east side of Exit 17, making the ramps frontage roads). It would continue as the Hammond Pond Parkway to the south and the Middlesex Turnpike to the north. I imagine the design speed to be 50 mph and the speed limit to be 45 mph.

Note that Google's routing changes based on congestion, but since it's a rough corridor, it shouldn't matter much.

[SEWIGuy]

Let's get back to the question presented in the OP:   Should the recreational value of a potential highway improvement be considered when exploring options?

Example:  Is the elimination of annoying stop-and-go traffic valuable beyond mere efficiency metrics?  If all other things were somehow equal, should an option that creates a more "pleasant driving experience" be more highly favored than one that doesn't?  And if the answer is yes, then should it be possible for such considerations to actually edge out another option when all things were not equal?

If the answer isn't "it shouldn't matter at all," it's "it should matter very little.

Roads are very expensive.  Much more expensive than a bike or walking path.  And they also have significant negatives (pollution, carbon emissions) associated with them.  And since the vast majority of car trips are not taken for recreational purposes, then I really can't see the societal good in including "recreational purposes" in road planning.

[SectorZ]

I guess I can consider that things like the Blue Ridge Pkwy and Natchez Trace Pkwy were built more for recreational value, but were also built when cars were a rather new thing.

I've always longed for a similar style roadway in the Northeast if the weather wouldn't kill its usage half the year. I guess the closest a New Englander has is something like NH 112 in the White Mts. That is a road that definitely owes part of its existence due to scenery and tourism.

However, all these roads allow all types of traffic, though pedestrians are typically only on them to park somewhere and look at stuff along the road. These roads are also typically congested solely due to their recreational draw, if at all.

[kernals12]

According to the National Household Travel Survey, over 30% of all travel by car is for "social/recreational" purposes. Obviously a lot of that is for going to see friends/relatives or driving out to the countryside to go mountain biking, but I think the type of people who go on frequent road trips enjoy their time behind the wheel and they'd rather spend it on open roads rather than on congested arterials.

[kernals12]

I guess I can consider that things like the Blue Ridge Pkwy and Natchez Trace Pkwy were built more for recreational value, but were also built when cars were a rather new thing.

I've always longed for a similar style roadway in the Northeast if the weather wouldn't kill its usage half the year. I guess the closest a New Englander has is something like NH 112 in the White Mts. That is a road that definitely owes part of its existence due to scenery and tourism.

However, all these roads allow all types of traffic, though pedestrians are typically only on them to park somewhere and look at stuff along the road. These roads are also typically congested solely due to their recreational draw, if at all.

We came very close to getting that in the 30s with the Green Mountain Parkway. 

[GaryV]

According to the National Household Travel Survey, over 30% of all travel by car is for "social/recreational" purposes. Obviously a lot of that is for going to see friends/relatives or driving out to the countryside to go mountain biking, but I think the type of people who go on frequent road trips enjoy their time behind the wheel and they'd rather spend it on open roads rather than on congested arterials.

Their definition: "Social/Recreational (exercise, movies, parks, museums and bars)"

However, there were also categories of "Vacation" and "Visit Friends and Family" in the survey that were not listed in the tables. (Also "Medical/Dental") So between the survey and the results, there was some combining of categories.  It is impossible to determine what part of the results applies to road trips.

[hbelkins]

Obesity is the only downfall of a sedentary lifestyle?  News to me!

Drugs are preferable to a healthier diet?  News to me!

The drug in question is Ozempic. The news story doesn't mention the brand name but it does name the manufacturer. I started on it in 2019 because my A1C wasn't responding well to the medication I was on, and I didn't want to start on mealtime insulin. They advertise the potential for weight loss in their omnipresent commercials (oh-oh-oh-Ozempic) but the amount mentioned is, on average, 12 pounds.

After I started on Ozempic, my appetite went away. I lost 60 pounds in 2019. I got to within 20 pounds of what I weighed when I graduated from high school in 1979. Then, in 2020, I had some issues with my thyroid. My hypothyroidism got worse and I put on some weight. It didn't help that I started working from home in the spring and it's easier to snack when you're working within sight of the kitchen. I ended up gaining back everything last year that I had lost the year prior.

After my thyroid medication was adjusted and my TSH levels got straightened out, the weight gain has stopped and my weight has stabilized over the past four or five months. My A1C is now below 6 (target is 7). My endocrinologist is pondering increasing my dose of Ozempic to get the weight loss back on track. She told me that, indeed, Ozempic is being prescribed as a weight-loss medication. The story posted just came out this week, but my endocrinologist had mentioned its use as a weight-loss drug early on.

[Max Rockatansky]

I ran into some suspicious looking guy on the corner when I was at lunch today.  He was selling some Recreational Roads, I just said no and left:

[D-Dey65]

The Blue Ridge Parkway and pretty much every modern mainline National Park Road are also recreationally oriented. 

Oh, not to mention the parkways of Long Island, New York City, the east side of the Hudson River, Palisades Interstate Parkway, the two-lane parkways of Harriman State Park, the parkways of Western New York,... in fact I even dare to say that the Garden State Parkway was originally for recreational purposes.

[kernals12]

Ian McHarg, the noted landscape architect, noted in his 1969 Magnum Opus Design with Nature that one of the benefits of new freeways was
"increased pleasure"

[kernals12]

Pew Survey from 2006 found that 27% of Americans had gone for a pleasure drive in the past week
https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2010/10/Cars.pdf

[hotdogPi]

Pew Survey from 2006 found that 27% of Americans had gone for a pleasure drive in the past week
https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2010/10/Cars.pdf

And there was a significant decrease from 1991 to 2006. It's probably gone down even more.

[kernals12]

Pew Survey from 2006 found that 27% of Americans had gone for a pleasure drive in the past week
https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2010/10/Cars.pdf

And there was a significant decrease from 1991 to 2006. It's probably gone down even more.

Why would you assume that? Gas is cheaper now (especially with the increase in fuel efficiency)

[Scott5114]

More competing recreational activities now than there were in 2006, plus in many places congestion has increased, meaning a drive is less likely to be pleasurable (and in some places there's fewer people who even have licenses or access to cars).

[Roadgeekteen]

I like roads, but the only recreational roads are scenic roads in national parks, like the going-to-the-sun road.

[hotdogPi]

I like roads, but the only recreational roads are scenic roads in national parks, like the going-to-the-sun road.

You should recognize this recreational road (it's in the name), which is only a few miles from you.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.335415,-71.2561891,3a,69.1y,341.8h,82.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZyl9ld0Jpc5TMfpE8mH-oQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[kernals12]

I like roads, but the only recreational roads are scenic roads in national parks, like the going-to-the-sun road.

You should recognize this recreational road (it's in the name), which is only a few miles from you.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.335415,-71.2561891,3a,69.1y,341.8h,82.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZyl9ld0Jpc5TMfpE8mH-oQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I agree that blasting down 128 at 70 MPH is very fun.

[Scott5114]

I like roads, but the only recreational roads are scenic roads in national parks, like the going-to-the-sun road.

You should recognize this recreational road (it's in the name), which is only a few miles from you.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.335415,-71.2561891,3a,69.1y,341.8h,82.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZyl9ld0Jpc5TMfpE8mH-oQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I agree that blasting down 128 at 70 MPH is very fun.

I am going to pour maple syrup down the back of your shirt.

[kernals12]

I like roads, but the only recreational roads are scenic roads in national parks, like the going-to-the-sun road.

You should recognize this recreational road (it's in the name), which is only a few miles from you.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.335415,-71.2561891,3a,69.1y,341.8h,82.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZyl9ld0Jpc5TMfpE8mH-oQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I agree that blasting down 128 at 70 MPH is very fun.

I am going to pour maple syrup down the back of your shirt.

I don't get it.

[Roadgeekteen]

I like roads, but the only recreational roads are scenic roads in national parks, like the going-to-the-sun road.

You should recognize this recreational road (it's in the name), which is only a few miles from you.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.335415,-71.2561891,3a,69.1y,341.8h,82.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZyl9ld0Jpc5TMfpE8mH-oQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I don't know why that road is called that, it's nothing special.