Numbered routes that should be merged?

Started by TheGrassGuy, March 19, 2021, 09:09:26 AM

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texaskdog

Quote from: SkyPesos on March 24, 2021, 08:13:39 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 24, 2021, 07:52:32 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 23, 2021, 10:01:51 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2021, 04:58:01 PM
Hot take I've heard from more than a few (I don't want this, but OK :P ): MN 23 and MN 61
Hotter take: US 61 and MN 61  :)

Though if MN 23 and 61 gets merged, I think that would be the longest route in the state, at just under 500 miles.
The thing there is that MN-61 use to be US-61 until it was scaled back to Wyoming and the former route became I-35 and a state highway with the same number (MN-61). Then there's Ontario Highway 61 that goes from the border to Thunder Bay. I think it should have stayed US-61.
I still think US 61 is the most unnecessary US route truncation out there. Most of the California E-W ones make sense, as the route ends in the state and shares the same path as an interstate the whole way through. US 61 have a significant path north of Duluth that US 35 doesn't cover, and it's only about 120 miles from current 61's northern terminus to I-35's northern terminus in Duluth.


I wouldn't be surprised if MN attempted to work with North Dakota to truncate US 52 at St Paul before either.

No reason the ND portion of 52 can't be an extension of 10 to make a shorter concurrency.

Yes seems odd for 61 since they generally like US routes to touch the border.  Explain why 85 exists in El Paso, or even 62, or US 57 in texas, yet 61 is a state highway now?


kenarmy

#51
Quote from: texaskdog on March 24, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 24, 2021, 08:13:39 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 24, 2021, 07:52:32 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 23, 2021, 10:01:51 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2021, 04:58:01 PM
Hot take I've heard from more than a few (I don't want this, but OK :P ): MN 23 and MN 61
Hotter take: US 61 and MN 61  :)

Though if MN 23 and 61 gets merged, I think that would be the longest route in the state, at just under 500 miles.
The thing there is that MN-61 use to be US-61 until it was scaled back to Wyoming and the former route became I-35 and a state highway with the same number (MN-61). Then there's Ontario Highway 61 that goes from the border to Thunder Bay. I think it should have stayed US-61.
I still think US 61 is the most unnecessary US route truncation out there. Most of the California E-W ones make sense, as the route ends in the state and shares the same path as an interstate the whole way through. US 61 have a significant path north of Duluth that US 35 doesn't cover, and it's only about 120 miles from current 61's northern terminus to I-35's northern terminus in Duluth.


I wouldn't be surprised if MN attempted to work with North Dakota to truncate US 52 at St Paul before either.

No reason the ND portion of 52 can't be an extension of 10 to make a shorter concurrency.

Yes seems odd for 61 since they generally like US routes to touch the border.  Explain why 85 exists in El Paso, or even 62, or US 57 in texas, yet 61 is a state highway now?
I think TXDOT just has a thing for US 85, and they probably won't be getting rid of it either since they rerouted it recently  :D. Otherwise, 85 would probably not even make it to Denver. 57 is just, well, it's 57. 62 doesn't really need to be truncated, it's 180 that deserves the axe
Just a reminder that US 6, 49, 50, and 98 are superior to your fave routes :)


EXTEND 206 SO IT CAN MEET ITS PARENT.

texaskdog

Quote from: kenarmy on March 24, 2021, 09:35:35 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on March 24, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 24, 2021, 08:13:39 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 24, 2021, 07:52:32 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 23, 2021, 10:01:51 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2021, 04:58:01 PM
Hot take I've heard from more than a few (I don't want this, but OK :P ): MN 23 and MN 61
Hotter take: US 61 and MN 61  :)

Though if MN 23 and 61 gets merged, I think that would be the longest route in the state, at just under 500 miles.
The thing there is that MN-61 use to be US-61 until it was scaled back to Wyoming and the former route became I-35 and a state highway with the same number (MN-61). Then there's Ontario Highway 61 that goes from the border to Thunder Bay. I think it should have stayed US-61.
I still think US 61 is the most unnecessary US route truncation out there. Most of the California E-W ones make sense, as the route ends in the state and shares the same path as an interstate the whole way through. US 61 have a significant path north of Duluth that US 35 doesn't cover, and it's only about 120 miles from current 61's northern terminus to I-35's northern terminus in Duluth.


I wouldn't be surprised if MN attempted to work with North Dakota to truncate US 52 at St Paul before either.

No reason the ND portion of 52 can't be an extension of 10 to make a shorter concurrency.

Yes seems odd for 61 since they generally like US routes to touch the border.  Explain why 85 exists in El Paso, or even 62, or US 57 in texas, yet 61 is a state highway now?
I think TXDOT just has a thing for US 85, and they probably won't be getting rid of it either since they rerouted it recently  :D. Otherwise, 85 would probably not even make it to Denver. 57 is just, well, it's 57. 62 doesn't really need to be truncated, it's 180 that deserves the axe

I think 180 should be an extension of 80.  62 has many unnecessary parts before it gets to 180.

JayhawkCO

I mentioned this upthread, but are there any other examples out there where there are three numbered highways that terminate consecutively such as CO16, CO21, and CO83? (i.e. two instances of End XX, Begin XX)

Chris

Mapmikey

Quote from: roadman65 on March 24, 2021, 01:54:45 AM
US 72 and US 76.
US 130 and US 301.
US 113 and US 202.

I think 202 and 301 combined as 301 would make some sense.

In the 1930s, NJ floated combining 113 and 130 into a longer 113.

jp the roadgeek

#55
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 24, 2021, 11:08:12 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 24, 2021, 01:54:45 AM
US 72 and US 76.
US 130 and US 301.
US 113 and US 202.

I think 202 and 301 combined as 301 would make some sense.

In the 1930s, NJ floated combining 113 and 130 into a longer 113.

My idea with 202 is to reroute 13 north of Wilmington onto US 202 up to Haverstraw, NY, and have 301 multiplex with DE 1 and 13(/40) up to Wilmington and take over current US 13 to Morrisville.  Yes, you would have violations in NJ in NY having a US route and a state route with the same number.  But NJ 13 is less than a mile long (DECOMMISSION IT!!), and like NY 2 and US 2, they're far enough from each other not to cause confusion.   North of Haverstraw, US 202 is mostly multiplexed, but to fill the gaps:

Extend NY 116 and NY 100

Extend CT 53 to Brookfield, then re-extend CT 25 to US 44 in Canton (as it was 1961-1974)

US 202 would start at US 20 in Westfield, MA (I'd suggest starting it where it splits from MA 10, but I extended it to connect to another US route, plus you'd have a neat fact in that it connects US 20 and US 2).
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

frankenroad

Quote from: jayhawkco on March 24, 2021, 10:41:25 AM
I mentioned this upthread, but are there any other examples out there where there are three numbered highways that terminate consecutively such as CO16, CO21, and CO83? (i.e. two instances of End XX, Begin XX)

Chris

OH-32, OH-125, and OH-561.   32 used to end at 125, but now it is needlessly concurrent with 125 until they hit US-50, where they both end and 561 begins.  Someone above suggested renumbering one of these.  I would renumber 561 as 125 and have 32's western terminus moved back to where it hits 125.
2di's clinched: 44, 66, 68, 71, 72, 74, 78, 83, 84(east), 86(east), 88(east), 96

Highways I've lived on M-43, M-185, US-127

texaskdog

I-494 and I-694 in the Twin Cities. They even merge 694 with 94 just to make it continuous. Most cities have a one-numbered beltway.

ilpt4u

Quote from: texaskdog on March 24, 2021, 01:26:55 PM
I-494 and I-694 in the Twin Cities. They even merge 694 with 94 just to make it continuous. Most cities have a one-numbered beltway.
I-255 and I-270 around St Louis  :wave:

SkyPesos

Quote from: texaskdog on March 24, 2021, 01:26:55 PM
I-494 and I-694 in the Twin Cities. They even merge 694 with 94 just to make it continuous. Most cities have a one-numbered beltway.
Not sure if I would want to merge them, but would like it if their exit numbers are separate from each other to not make it seem like it's not sure if it's a single beltway or two partial beltways. Both exit numbers would start at their west end with I-94, after removing I-694's concurrency with its parent, and increase eastward.

TheStranger

California once had a few examples of this in the past that were changed over very quickly (old Route 243/I-605 near Irwindale, Route 109/I-8 in San Diego, 133/231 in Orange County).

I get why Route 17 was never renumbered to state route 880 when the north portion became I-880, but really the whole road functions as one through corridor and I don't think there should be an exit number reset at I-280.

I-980 really could (and should) be applied to all of the remainder of Route 24, now that 24 has a full 8 lanes at the Caldecott Tunnel.

Near Long Beach, if 47 never gets signed on Alameda Street, not sure why 103/47 should be two separate routes.  (But only in that specific circumstance; if 47 does get signed north of Henry Ford Avenue then the current configuration is fine as is).

164 has never been signed so that designation shouldn't exist and 19 (which has been signed along it the whole time) legislatively restored to that portion of its route.

213/258 corridor is essentially one route along Western Avenue, though none of the 258 portion will ever be built.

Chris Sampang

cwf1701

Quote from: ilpt4u on March 24, 2021, 02:58:26 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on March 24, 2021, 01:26:55 PM
I-494 and I-694 in the Twin Cities. They even merge 694 with 94 just to make it continuous. Most cities have a one-numbered beltway.
I-255 and I-270 around St Louis  :wave:
I-696 and I-275 in Detroit

roadman65

Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

LilianaUwU

I think I brought it up before, but US 175 really should be more of US 75, considering both routes end near each other.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

roadman65

Quote from: LilianaUwU on March 24, 2021, 06:08:54 PM
I think I brought it up before, but US 175 really should be more of US 75, considering both routes end near each other.

Good one as US 175 is a one state route.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

SeriesE

CA-24 and I-980 (CA) should really be CA-24 all the way

texaskdog

One of my favorites US 85 and US 285.  85 essentially ends south of Denver but if you chopped a small piece, US 285 could be the rest of US 85.

Flint1979

Quote from: texaskdog on March 24, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 24, 2021, 08:13:39 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on March 24, 2021, 07:52:32 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 23, 2021, 10:01:51 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2021, 04:58:01 PM
Hot take I've heard from more than a few (I don't want this, but OK :P ): MN 23 and MN 61
Hotter take: US 61 and MN 61  :)

Though if MN 23 and 61 gets merged, I think that would be the longest route in the state, at just under 500 miles.
The thing there is that MN-61 use to be US-61 until it was scaled back to Wyoming and the former route became I-35 and a state highway with the same number (MN-61). Then there's Ontario Highway 61 that goes from the border to Thunder Bay. I think it should have stayed US-61.
I still think US 61 is the most unnecessary US route truncation out there. Most of the California E-W ones make sense, as the route ends in the state and shares the same path as an interstate the whole way through. US 61 have a significant path north of Duluth that US 35 doesn't cover, and it's only about 120 miles from current 61's northern terminus to I-35's northern terminus in Duluth.


I wouldn't be surprised if MN attempted to work with North Dakota to truncate US 52 at St Paul before either.

No reason the ND portion of 52 can't be an extension of 10 to make a shorter concurrency.

Yes seems odd for 61 since they generally like US routes to touch the border.  Explain why 85 exists in El Paso, or even 62, or US 57 in texas, yet 61 is a state highway now?
US-57 should probably be a state highway but it's an extension of Mexican Highway 57 that's why it has the number 57.

kphoger

Quote from: Flint1979 on March 25, 2021, 07:55:21 AM
US-57 should probably be a state highway but it's an extension of Mexican Highway 57 that's why it has the number 57.

US-57 used to be TX-57, for a few years in the late 1960s.  Nowadays, TX-57 is a 1½-mile stretch of Grande Blvd in Tyler–hardly deserving of a primary SH designation, if you ask me.  So, if US-57 were removed, the road could still keep number continuity with Mexico if only that entirely-within-city-limits-and-not-really-a-primary-highway thing in Tyler were demoted or renumbered.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

tolbs17

I-10 and I-12. Can we go back to suffixing again?

jbnv

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 09:11:30 PM
I-10 and I-12. Can we go back to suffixing again?

No. Suffixing with letters isn't a thing in Louisiana.

Speaking of my home state, I'm sure I can find plenty of examples with our thousands of state routes. It's a bit harder to limit it just to the routes that don't involve significant rerouting. One example that jumps to mind is LA 16 and LA 70 via a concurrency over LA 22.

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PA Route 33 and Interstate 380.
PA Route 378 and PA Route 191.

And you may ask yourself, where does that highway go to?
--David Byrne

thspfc

#72
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 09:11:30 PM
I-10 and I-12. Can we go back to suffixing again?
Nah. I would replace the entirety of I-12 with I-10. Current I-10 between I-12 at Baton Rouge and I-55 at Laplace becomes I-710. I-55 takes over I-10 between Laplace and downtown New Orleans. I-59 takes over the rest of I-10 between NOLA and Slidell. 

Edit: that would also mean renumbering I-510 and I-610. I-510 becomes I-159 and I-610 becomes I-559, which makes sense because I-559 would connect I-55 and I-59.

TheGrassGuy

Quote from: thspfc on March 26, 2021, 01:11:19 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 09:11:30 PM
I-10 and I-12. Can we go back to suffixing again?
Nah. I would replace the entirety of I-12 with I-10. Current I-10 between I-12 at Baton Rouge and I-55 at Laplace becomes I-710. I-55 takes over I-10 between Laplace and downtown New Orleans. I-59 takes over the rest of I-10 between NOLA and Slidell. 

Edit: that would also mean renumbering I-510 and I-610. I-510 becomes I-159 and I-610 becomes I-559, which makes sense because I-559 would connect I-55 and I-59.

Wouldn't I-810 make more sense than I-710, as it connects two interstates? Similar issue regarding I-559; while logical, I doubt AASHTO would approve of that.
If you ever feel useless, remember that CR 504 exists.

LilianaUwU

Another one I forgot to bring up is QC-265 and QC-267, because they end 650 meters away from each other.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.



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