Queen Elizabeth II dies at age 96

[kphoger]

One thing that I find very interesting is that the media–both in the UK and in the US–are portraying the Queen's death as an occasion for widespread mourning, that everyone is universally distraught, the country is basically shut down, etc. Reports on the ground on social media, however, show that it's mostly business as usual; most people are already over it, if they were even grief-stricken at all.

The Guardian is reporting that people have been standing in line for five to seven hours to file past the Queen's coffin in St. Giles Cathedral in Edinburgh, so there are definitely mourners aplenty.

Are we equivocating on the definition of "mourn", though?  Attending a funeral service, wake, or burial isn't the same thing as being distraught or grief-stricken.  Even when a personal friend dies, a person might take off a half-day from work to attend the funeral but otherwise go on with "business as usual", and any grieving or shock would likely wear off within a short period of time–unless that friend had been particularly close.

But I agree with Scott, that the media have portrayed people as being dumbfounded, shocked, grief-stricken, unable to comprehend the loss of their queen.  I remember hearing a radio interview with a Scottish serviceman who, upon hearing of the Queen's death, immediately left town and traveled across the country in a whirlwind of emotion–with no indication by the media outlet that his story was anything but an exemplar of the populace at large.

For what it's worth, I imagine there would be more actual grief and disbelief if the Queen had died unexpectedly at age 47.  But there's a lot less shock to a 98-year-old passing away.

[J N Winkler]

Are we equivocating on the definition of "mourn", though?  Attending a funeral service, wake, or burial isn't the same thing as being distraught or grief-stricken.  Even when a personal friend dies, a person might take off a half-day from work to attend the funeral but otherwise go on with "business as usual", and any grieving or shock would likely wear off within a short period of time–unless that friend had been particularly close.

I think we are also equivocating on media.  I can't speak for the sources Scott is referring to, but I've been following the news of Queen Elizabeth's death primarily through the Guardian, which has long been the most republican of British broadsheet newspapers, and has run multiple pieces on, e.g., how republican advocacy groups are handling Elizabeth's death and Charles' accession to the throne (basically keeping their powder dry until his presumed latent unpopularity surfaces after a honeymoon period), or how arresting anti-monarchy protesters does not square with the right to protest.  Even the Washington Post has noted it was business as usual a day or so after the Queen's passing, partly because businesses can't afford to leave money on the table with a cost-of-living crisis on.  I don't watch the news on TV, don't follow the red-tops, and don't use any news feeds, so those are dimensions of the coverage I know I'm not getting.

[Duke87]

Are we equivocating on the definition of "mourn", though?  Attending a funeral service, wake, or burial isn't the same thing as being distraught or grief-stricken.  Even when a personal friend dies, a person might take off a half-day from work to attend the funeral but otherwise go on with "business as usual", and any grieving or shock would likely wear off within a short period of time–unless that friend had been particularly close.

Well or a lot of people will go through the motions of attending the wake for a friend's parent or something out of a sense of obligation without actually otherwise experiencing any negative emotion about the matter.

I think that's the big thing here with the "national period of mourning". No, people aren't beside themselves. No, people aren't being forced under threat of getting thrown in the gulag to feign grief for the camera. But people still feel a sense of patriotic duty to acknowledge the situation somehow because the royal family serves as iconography central to the national identity of the British (and to a lesser degree, Canadians, Australians, etc.) much in the same way that the flag or bald eagles do for Americans.

[Scott5114]

What exactly are we expecting, DPRK-style mourning? Of course people are going about their business. It's not a fascist monarchy.

They've arrested people for protesting too close to the funeral procession, so...

I assume that was in the name of "breach of the King's peace". Not exactly a new law.

That, and the Public Order Act. Either way, it's not exactly something that squares with the assertion that "it's not a fascist monarchy" in my mind.

If that happened in the US, the ACLU would have a plane packed with lawyers in the air in minutes, en route to file a First Amendment lawsuit.

[Duke87]

That, and the Public Order Act. Either way, it's not exactly something that squares with the assertion that "it's not a fascist monarchy" in my mind.

If that happened in the US, the ACLU would have a plane packed with lawyers in the air in minutes, en route to file a First Amendment lawsuit.

Yes, well, the US fought a literal war to overthrow this monarchy so things wouldn't be like that here.

[mgk920]

That, and the Public Order Act. Either way, it's not exactly something that squares with the assertion that "it's not a fascist monarchy" in my mind.

If that happened in the US, the ACLU would have a plane packed with lawyers in the air in minutes, en route to file a First Amendment lawsuit.

Yes, well, the US fought a literal war to overthrow this monarchy so things wouldn't be like that here.

Yes, the Revolution and then the War of 1812 to preserve it.  Since then the two countries have been the best of friends in both War and peace.

I have been off and on watching the proceedings as a curiosity.

Mike

[elsmere241]

I think that's the big thing here with the "national period of mourning". No, people aren't beside themselves. No, people aren't being forced under threat of getting thrown in the gulag to feign grief for the camera. But people still feel a sense of patriotic duty to acknowledge the situation somehow because the royal family serves as iconography central to the national identity of the British (and to a lesser degree, Canadians, Australians, etc.) much in the same way that the flag or bald eagles do for Americans.

Yes, it's telling that the UK's national anthem is about the monarchy, while the USA's is about the flag.

[US 89]

Interestingly, there is at present only one high-quality recording of God Save the King with the correct lyrics - made by a French opera singer in 2017.

[kphoger]

What exactly are we expecting, DPRK-style mourning? Of course people are going about their business. It's not a fascist monarchy.

They've arrested people for protesting too close to the funeral procession, so...

I assume that was in the name of "breach of the King's peace". Not exactly a new law.

That, and the Public Order Act. Either way, it's not exactly something that squares with the assertion that "it's not a fascist monarchy" in my mind.

If that happened in the US, the ACLU would have a plane packed with lawyers in the air in minutes, en route to file a First Amendment lawsuit.

The US has various laws against 'disturbing the peace' and 'disorderly conduct', but I wouldn't say that makes the USA a fascist authoritarian regime.

[on_wisconsin]

The BBC is streaming its funeral coverage on YouTube (no geoblocks):

https://youtu.be/V_gy9DFtw5U

Most local PBS stations are also simulcasting the Beeb's coverage, https://www.pbs.org/livestream/ .

[triplemultiplex]

I'm annoyed that PBS bumped part 2 of the latest Ken Burns doc on Monday night for this queen bullshit.  Like seriously, a re-broadcast of that instead of one of your tent-pole content producers?  Dumb move, PBS!

[kphoger]

The president's on!  He's on every channel!  We're gonna miss Flipper!!!

[jakeroot]

I'm annoyed that PBS bumped part 2 of the latest Ken Burns doc on Monday night for this queen bullshit.  Like seriously, a re-broadcast of that instead of one of your tent-pole content producers?  Dumb move, PBS!

Something tells me even Ken Burns himself would place his documentary second to the death of QE2.

[Scott5114]

Covering it live? Yeah, maybe that's justifiable.

Bumping prime-time content to show a rerun of an event that was already broadcasted live? Dumb programming decision.

Doing that in 2022 when anyone who missed it live could just watch it online? Incredibly idiotic decision.

[bulldog1979]

Covering it live? Yeah, maybe that's justifiable.

Bumping prime-time content to show a rerun of an event that was already broadcasted live? Dumb programming decision.

Doing that in 2022 when anyone who missed it live could just watch it online? Incredibly idiotic decision.

You presume that everyone has Internet access and the capability to stream video content, let alone cable. Were my grandmother still alive, she'd have exactly two options: set an alarm clock to wake up quite early to watch the funeral live, or rely on a repeat broadcast. Remember that London and Windsor are 5 hours ahead of the US East Coast, so live coverage started here on my local station at 5:30 am EDT. The time difference gets even greater in other time zones, pushing it earlier and earlier.

This isn't really that much different than the coverage of the Olympics in terms of the broadcast logistics, except that the schedule of events for the Olympics is known years in advance, and we had just about 9 days notice for this once-in-a-lifetime event.

[Scott5114]

And there are people who don't have indoor plumbing yet either, yet society doesn't go out of its way to accommodate for those few.

It would be one thing if we lived in the country she was actually queen of. But we don't. Her death is a mere curiosity here. It doesn't justify prime time coverage.

[kphoger]

And there are people who don't have indoor plumbing yet either, yet society doesn't go out of its way to accommodate for those few.

I personally know multiple people right here in Wichita without internet access.  I don't know anyone here without indoor plumbing.

For example, think about all the people in nursing homes who don't have a computer in their room, but who follow the news on TV.

[1995hoo]

What are the typical demographics of PBS viewers? I suspect, but don't know for certain, that their evening viewership tends to skew older than many other networks' average viewership, and I suspect that might be a significant factor in their programming decisions. (With that said, I know they have a streaming service, PBS Passport, that is available to people who donate more than a certain relatively minimal amount, I think $60 per year. My wife has PBS Passport access and watches it fairly heavily.)

My impression is that PBS heavily re-runs a lot of programming anyway.

[NWI_Irish96]

What are the typical demographics of PBS viewers? I suspect, but don't know for certain, that their evening viewership tends to skew older than many other networks' average viewership, and I suspect that might be a significant factor in their programming decisions. (With that said, I know they have a streaming service, PBS Passport, that is available to people who donate more than a certain relatively minimal amount, I think $60 per year. My wife has PBS Passport access and watches it fairly heavily.)

My impression is that PBS heavily re-runs a lot of programming anyway.

I think the particular problem was that evening PBS was due to air one of their most-anticipated original programs in a long time. Even people that don't normally watch PBS had made plans to watch. If the queen's funeral had been any other day, nobody would have cared if PBS reran it in prime time.

[GaryV]

What are the typical demographics of PBS viewers? I suspect, but don't know for certain, that their evening viewership tends to skew older than many other networks' average viewership, and I suspect that might be a significant factor in their programming decisions. (With that said, I know they have a streaming service, PBS Passport, that is available to people who donate more than a certain relatively minimal amount, I think $60 per year. My wife has PBS Passport access and watches it fairly heavily.)

My impression is that PBS heavily re-runs a lot of programming anyway.

I think the particular problem was that evening PBS was due to air one of their most-anticipated original programs in a long time. Even people that don't normally watch PBS had made plans to watch. If the queen's funeral had been any other day, nobody would have cared if PBS reran it in prime time.

They ran the Ken Burns episode immediately after the funeral recap. They sent out notices to subscribers and/or Facebook followers that they were going to do that. They noted that members could watch it on Passport at their convenience. It's not like this was a sudden decision that screwed up the world.

BTW, my wife and I liked watching the evening 1-1/2 hour program instead of watching the coverage starting from early morning and lasting many hours.

[jakeroot]

The man himself announced the schedule change last Wednesday.

https://twitter.com/kenburns/status/1570060885292613632

[jakeroot]

It would be one thing if we lived in the country she was actually queen of. But we don't. Her death is a mere curiosity here. It doesn't justify prime time coverage.

Okay ....

(A) the British Monarchy has been an obsession in this country for decades. Not being in the monarchy has nothing to do with our interest in it; the US is part of the Anglosphere. As well, plenty of other countries have covered her death extensively, many of whom are not British in any way.

(B) PBS thrives on British content. Zero people should be surprised that they would give prime time coverage to the death of QE2.

[triplemultiplex]

PBS has like four over the air channels.  Put the queen shit on one of those channels.  I'm sure the guys on This Old House or the quilting lady will understand.  Everybody is happy then: the people desperate for quality documentary programming in an era of dogshit about UFO's and ghosts, and the people who fetishize some other country's corrupt, anachronistic figurehead system.

[kphoger]

If PBS expected their viewership for the documentary to be less than for the funeral replay . . . then give the people what they want.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

It's common for live broadcast content that takes place at inconvenient times to be repeated in prime time when it's easier for people to watch it.