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New Jersey

Started by Alps, September 17, 2013, 07:00:19 PM

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cockroachking

Money.

That and most likely opposition from those who would be inconvenienced by the closures.


jeffandnicole

Quote from: kernals12 on June 12, 2022, 10:10:22 AM
Why doesn't NJDOT do some access management on its Jersey Freeways? On NJ 3, for example, between Bloomfield and Passaic avenues, there are a bunch of businesses with driveway curb cuts onto the freeway that already have access on Allwood Road


Why not just close those off?

NJDOT and the municipality originally approved the access for those businesses. Legally they can't take that access away, especially without compensation.

Alps

Quote from: kernals12 on June 12, 2022, 10:10:22 AM
Why doesn't NJDOT do some access management on its Jersey Freeways? On NJ 3, for example, between Bloomfield and Passaic avenues, there are a bunch of businesses with driveway curb cuts onto the freeway that already have access on Allwood Road


Why not just close those off?
It's technically an arterial that just doesn't have cross streets or left turns.

famartin

Quote from: kernals12 on June 12, 2022, 10:10:22 AM
Why doesn't NJDOT do some access management on its Jersey Freeways? On NJ 3, for example, between Bloomfield and Passaic avenues, there are a bunch of businesses with driveway curb cuts onto the freeway that already have access on Allwood Road
Why not just close those off?

NJDOT rarely does that to existing roads. A service road would be more likely to get traction here versus complete cessation of access, but that requires land and money which are both in limited supply.

SignBridge

I think Alps kind of hit the nail on the head. Route 3 is not actually a freeway (full-control of access) as defined in the MUTCD. It is an expressway (partial control of access) but with some interchanges. As such it can still have private driveway entrances and exits to businesses along the route. New Jersey has many such roads including US-22, US-46, NJ-4, NJ-17 to name a few.

famartin

Quote from: SignBridge on June 12, 2022, 08:21:22 PM
I think Alps kind of hit the nail on the head. Route 3 is not actually a freeway (full-control of access) as defined in the MUTCD. It is an expressway (partial control of access) but with some interchanges. As such it can still have private driveway entrances and exits to businesses along the route. New Jersey has many such roads including US-22, US-46, NJ-4, NJ-17 to name a few.

3 is a bit different from 22/46/4/17 in that it has had all its lights long-since replaced by interchanges (I'm thinking many decades ago at this point, but someone correct me if I'm wrong). 22/4/46 all still have some lights in the mix, at least sparingly or in some sections. Yes, some areas of 22/46/4/17 are just like 3, but 3 is one of the few roads where every light is gone.

storm2k

Quote from: famartin on June 12, 2022, 07:22:38 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on June 12, 2022, 10:10:22 AM
Why doesn't NJDOT do some access management on its Jersey Freeways? On NJ 3, for example, between Bloomfield and Passaic avenues, there are a bunch of businesses with driveway curb cuts onto the freeway that already have access on Allwood Road
Why not just close those off?

NJDOT rarely does that to existing roads. A service road would be more likely to get traction here versus complete cessation of access, but that requires land and money which are both in limited supply.

Or in the case of this stretch of 3, non-existent, at least in terms of land. Those parking lots butt up right against the roadway. Even if there was a desire to spend on landtaking and construction of service roads, it's just completely unfesable. This holds true of most roadways that have this. It's why the businesses on the median of 22 continue to exist even though that creates far more dangerous road conditions (anyone who drives there on a regular basis is used to seeing cars do the old dash across all the lanes to get to a side street move which is dangerous as hell). That small stretch of 3 is one of the new places where closing off the access is even possible. In a lot of other places, it's not, either because those businesses butt up against private homes, water, railroad tracks, etc.

Alps

Quote from: famartin on June 12, 2022, 09:43:54 PM
Quote from: SignBridge on June 12, 2022, 08:21:22 PM
I think Alps kind of hit the nail on the head. Route 3 is not actually a freeway (full-control of access) as defined in the MUTCD. It is an expressway (partial control of access) but with some interchanges. As such it can still have private driveway entrances and exits to businesses along the route. New Jersey has many such roads including US-22, US-46, NJ-4, NJ-17 to name a few.

3 is a bit different from 22/46/4/17 in that it has had all its lights long-since replaced by interchanges (I'm thinking many decades ago at this point, but someone correct me if I'm wrong). 22/4/46 all still have some lights in the mix, at least sparingly or in some sections. Yes, some areas of 22/46/4/17 are just like 3, but 3 is one of the few roads where every light is gone.
3 never had lights on its current alignment to my knowledge. It was shifted in pieces off of surface streets.

storm2k

Sinkhole closes ramp at intersection of 2 N.J. highways

QuoteThe sinkhole opened up in the local lanes of the northbound ramp from Interstate 287 to eastbound Interstate 78 in Bedminster, according to 511nj.org.

All lanes of Exit 21A on I-287 were closed, the report said.

That ramp was rebuilt like two years ago. There also haven't been a lot of super heavy rains in this area (I live about seven minutes from this intersection) in a while that should cause the earth underneath to do this. That's not a great look.

NoGoodNamesAvailable

What the hell is going on in NJDOT's geotech department? This is now a pattern...

Alps

Quote from: storm2k on June 19, 2022, 01:18:21 PM
Sinkhole closes ramp at intersection of 2 N.J. highways

QuoteThe sinkhole opened up in the local lanes of the northbound ramp from Interstate 287 to eastbound Interstate 78 in Bedminster, according to 511nj.org.

All lanes of Exit 21A on I-287 were closed, the report said.

That ramp was rebuilt like two years ago. There also haven't been a lot of super heavy rains in this area (I live about seven minutes from this intersection) in a while that should cause the earth underneath to do this. That's not a great look.
That ramp was just rebuilt, so now I have to worry about the 78E-287N loop ramp that pushed it out. Which I may be taking in 6 days. :|

kernals12

On September 10, 1977, the New York Times had an article about congestion on the interchange between Routes 4 and 17. They said one proposal to relieve the traffic was an overpass connecting The Garden State Plaza mall and what was then an Alexander's Department Store.

I assume this is what they're talking about?

NJRoadfan

#3887
Slide the map a bit east. The NJ-4 and 17 interchange was just a simple under-powered cloverleaf until the addition of flyovers and service roads in the late 90s.

https://web.archive.org/web/20001209163800/http://www.state.nj.us/njcommuter/4_17/construc2.htm

famartin

Its amazing it was such a nightmare in 1975, yet didn't get fixed for another 20 years.

famartin

Quote from: kernals12 on June 23, 2022, 09:05:43 PM
On September 10, 1977, the New York Times had an article about congestion on the interchange between Routes 4 and 17. They said one proposal to relieve the traffic was an overpass connecting The Garden State Plaza mall and what was then an Alexander's Department Store. I assume this is what they're talking about?


I think you're right.

kernals12

Quote from: famartin on June 24, 2022, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on June 23, 2022, 09:05:43 PM
On September 10, 1977, the New York Times had an article about congestion on the interchange between Routes 4 and 17. They said one proposal to relieve the traffic was an overpass connecting The Garden State Plaza mall and what was then an Alexander's Department Store. I assume this is what they're talking about?


I think you're right.

It's always a matter of money.

kernals12

#3891
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2016/10/28/donald-trump-had-a-plan-in-the-80s-to-make-paramus-great-again/93116464/

Apparently, in the late 80s, a man who would later become the President of the United States wanted to build a giant mall where the Ikea is now. He even said he would pay to upgrade the interchange. The owners of Garden State Plaza fought back and they even helped pay to upgrade the interchange. 

tsmatt13

Just thought I'd share this interesting local interchange between CR 571 and Hooper Ave. It's a full cloverleaf except the two roads intersect. Are there any other examples of these? This is the only one I could find.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9788679,-74.1825682,245m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
Interstates & freeways clinched: 16, 78, 87 (NY), 97, 287, 295 (NJ/PA/DE), 676, ACE, GSP

Alps

Quote from: tsmatt13 on June 24, 2022, 05:20:20 PM
Just thought I'd share this interesting local interchange between CR 571 and Hooper Ave. It's a full cloverleaf except the two roads intersect. Are there any other examples of these? This is the only one I could find.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9788679,-74.1825682,245m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
This is the only one I know of. There have always been some really funky signs there too - see my CR 571 and 549 pages at https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/nj/

tsmatt13

Quote from: Alps on June 24, 2022, 05:36:24 PM
Quote from: tsmatt13 on June 24, 2022, 05:20:20 PM
Just thought I'd share this interesting local interchange between CR 571 and Hooper Ave. It's a full cloverleaf except the two roads intersect. Are there any other examples of these? This is the only one I could find.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9788679,-74.1825682,245m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
This is the only one I know of. There have always been some really funky signs there too - see my CR 571 and 549 pages at https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/nj/
I've seen those pages before, you were actually one of the people that inspired me to join this forum, I used to always look at your webpage. It's great actually talking to you! :D

But it's definitely interesting that this is the only example of a ground cloverleaf in the area.
Interstates & freeways clinched: 16, 78, 87 (NY), 97, 287, 295 (NJ/PA/DE), 676, ACE, GSP

storm2k

Drove past the ramp from 287 NB to 78 EB which remains closed due to the sinkhole. They have some big ole heavy equipment there to conduct repairs, but I'm sure they're probably also checking the integrity of the earth under the entire ramp structure to make sure no future sinkholes are possible.

I have to imagine they'll also want to check out the replacement ramp from 78 EB to 287 NB (the new loop ramp) to make sure its integrity is intact.

Still not a great look for NJDOT and its contractors that this happened to a ramp that's barely a year or so old.

cockroachking

Quote from: tsmatt13 on June 24, 2022, 05:20:20 PM
Just thought I'd share this interesting local interchange between CR 571 and Hooper Ave. It's a full cloverleaf except the two roads intersect. Are there any other examples of these? This is the only one I could find.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9788679,-74.1825682,245m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
That is the most New Jersey thing I have ever seen!   :-D

kernals12

I imagine that "jug handle" is the Jersey word for Bra.

tsmatt13

Quote from: cockroachking on June 25, 2022, 01:21:16 AM
That is the most New Jersey thing I have ever seen!   :-D
I find it even funnier that the sidewalks and crosswalks in the middle do not lead anywhere; they just make a square around the intersection... :bigass:
Interstates & freeways clinched: 16, 78, 87 (NY), 97, 287, 295 (NJ/PA/DE), 676, ACE, GSP

kernals12

Quote from: tsmatt13 on June 25, 2022, 10:02:26 AM
Quote from: cockroachking on June 25, 2022, 01:21:16 AM
That is the most New Jersey thing I have ever seen!   :-D
I find it even funnier that the sidewalks and crosswalks in the middle do not lead anywhere; they just make a square around the intersection... :bigass:

Don't be stupid. Those are obviously for hitchhikers  :bigass:



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