I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange

[PHLBOS]

Edit/correction in blue:

One more note regarding the I-95 Delaware River Bridge toll being a "bridge toll" : It's only charged westbound (to Pennsylvania), which is consistent with the DRPA bridges.

FYI, all the tolled Delaware River crossings (sans the Dingman's Ferry Bridge) are one-way (westbound) not just the DRPA ones (although those have the next-highest toll rate (of $5)).

I think there''s a natural limit to toll increases, though, because the Turnpike bridge is, to an extent, in competition with the other Delaware River crossings as well as the New Jersey Turnpike.

Given that the current Toll-By-Plate rate is already higher than that of the four DRPA bridges; I honestly don't believe the PTC (at least the operatives in Harrisburg) took such into consideration (was such a question even asked at the meet?)... especially that the locals (from US 130) are/were already paying a $2.20/$3 on top of whatever the PTC charged.  In short, one's looking at $7.20 to $9.75 toll to use that bridge from US 130 to US 13 (or continue along I-95 southbound to where-ever once the ramp opens). 

Bold emphasis added below:

Continuous toll increases may be a way to wring more money out of the essentially captive audience that is headed from the NJ Turnpike to Harrisburg and points west, but it at the same time potentially kills off the new revenue streams from commuter and long-distance I-95 traffic that the PTC is currently not profiting from. And I tend to think that the latter group has greater potential to bring more revenue to PTC coffers. The officials on hand for the meet basically said as much.

So what you're saying is that the officials are in agreement that the significantly higher tolls could potentially kill off the new revenue potentials from these new ramps (actually just the new through I-95 southbound ramp)... something I've been saying ever since that new one-way Turnpike toll rate was set for that AET gantry. 

Personal note: Ever since that AET gantry went live; I actually stopped using that crossing (to access I-95 South via US 13 & PA 413) for my return trips from New England and points to the northeast due to the new toll rate (it was no longer cheaper than using the Walt Whitman Bridge off I-295).

[ekt8750]

Given that the current Toll-By-Plate rate is already higher than that of the four DRPA bridges

One could actually argue DRPA is more when you factor in the mileage + fees. DRPA charges $25 on top of the $5 toll if you were to toll by plate. The Delaware River Bridge toll by plate is what? Around $7 if you get off at US13. I know you pay the full length rate + fees if you go any further.

[PHLBOS]

Given that the current Toll-By-Plate rate is already higher than that of the four DRPA bridges

One could actually argue DRPA is more when you factor in the mileage + fees. DRPA charges $25 on top of the $5 toll if you were to toll by plate. The Delaware River Bridge toll by plate is what? Around $7 if you get off at US13. I know you pay the full length rate + fees if you go any further.

The DRPA does not have Toll-By-Plate.  It's either cash or E-ZPass and the toll rate of $5 applies for both user types (not counting the commuter discount for NJ E-ZPass accounts that use DRPA facilities 18+ times per month).

As matter of fact, none of the Delaware River Crossings either south or north of the Turnpike bridge have AET/Toll-By-Plate yet.

[bzakharin]

One more note regarding the I-95 Delaware River Bridge toll being a “bridge toll”: It’s only charged westbound (to Pennsylvania), which is consistent with the DRPA bridges.

FYI, all the tolled Delaware River crossings are one-way (westbound) not just the DRPA ones (although those have the next-highest toll rate (of $5)).

The Dingman's Ferry bridge is still $1 each way, I believe.

[PHLBOS]

One more note regarding the I-95 Delaware River Bridge toll being a "bridge toll" : It's only charged westbound (to Pennsylvania), which is consistent with the DRPA bridges.

FYI, all the tolled Delaware River crossings (sans the Dingmans Ferry Bridge) are one-way (westbound) not just the DRPA ones (although those have the next-highest toll rate (of $5)).

The Dingman's Ferry bridge is still $1 each way, I believe.

Previous post has been edited/corrected in blue per the above.  Such is rather odd given that every other tolled Delaware River crossing has been one-way since the mid-1990s.  Then again, such isn't exactly a high volume bridge.

[jeffandnicole]

Given that the current Toll-By-Plate rate is already higher than that of the four DRPA bridges

One could actually argue DRPA is more when you factor in the mileage + fees. DRPA charges $25 on top of the $5 toll if you were to toll by plate. The Delaware River Bridge toll by plate is what? Around $7 if you get off at US13. I know you pay the full length rate + fees if you go any further.

That's really a fine, not toll-by-plate.  It is assessed each time you go thru.

That's like saying you can stop at a stop sign, or pay a $115 fee to roll thru a stop sign because they have cameras there.

[NE2]

Such is rather odd given that every other tolled Delaware River crossing has been one-way since the mid-1990s.  Then again, such isn't exactly a high volume bridge.

It's also the only privately owned bridge on the Delaware.

[02 Park Ave]

The DRPA EZpass rate for senior citizens is $2.50.

[theroadwayone]

What made NJ such a bad place that if you want to leave it, you have to pay a toll?

[Alps]

What made NJ such a bad place that if you want to leave it, you have to pay a toll?

We charge the stupid and the lazy. If you can figure out how to leave the state without paying a toll, you get away free.

[oscar]

What made NJ such a bad place that if you want to leave it, you have to pay a toll?

Canada's delightful Prince Edward Island is the same way, only with no free escape routes.

[theroadwayone]

What made NJ such a bad place that if you want to leave it, you have to pay a toll?

Canada's delightful Prince Edward Island is the same way, only with no free escape routes.

Because with NJ, at least there are a few free bridges over the Delaware, and the overland escape routes are free.

[qguy]

What made NJ such a bad place that if you want to leave it, you have to pay a toll?

We charge the stupid and the lazy. If you can figure out how to leave the state without paying a toll, you get away free.

Ah, a stupidity tax. But isn't that what the state lotteries already are? 

[02 Park Ave]

Thunderstorms are forecast for Friday night. 

[roadman]

What made NJ such a bad place that if you want to leave it, you have to pay a toll?

We charge the stupid and the lazy. If you can figure out how to leave the state without paying a toll, you get away free.

Ah, a stupidity tax. But isn't that what the state lotteries already are? 

No.  State lotteries are a tax on the mathematically challenged.   Especially in Massachusetts, where the Lottery keeps between 60 and 90 (depending upon which of the 92,486 agents you choose to patronize) separate and distinct scratch tickets in circulation at any given time.

[PHLBOS]

Such is rather odd given that every other tolled Delaware River crossing has been one-way since the mid-1990s.  Then again, such isn't exactly a high volume bridge.

It's also the only privately owned bridge on the Delaware.

Good to know.  Such explains why the toll is cash only.

[Beltway]

Ah, a stupidity tax. But isn't that what the state lotteries already are? 

No.  State lotteries are a tax on the mathematically challenged.   Especially in Massachusetts, where the Lottery keeps between 60 and 90 (depending upon which of the 92,486 agents you choose to patronize) separate and distinct scratch tickets in circulation at any given time.

State lotteries consume disposable income that might have been spent on durable goods that would help stimulate the economy, or placed in savings that might have been spent on durable goods in the future, or placed in savings for retirement.

[jeffandnicole]

Ah, a stupidity tax. But isn't that what the state lotteries already are? 

No.  State lotteries are a tax on the mathematically challenged.   Especially in Massachusetts, where the Lottery keeps between 60 and 90 (depending upon which of the 92,486 agents you choose to patronize) separate and distinct scratch tickets in circulation at any given time.

State lotteries consume disposable income that might have been spent on durable goods that would help stimulate the economy, or placed in savings that might have been spent on durable goods in the future, or placed in savings for retirement.

On the other hand, proceeds generally go to state departments such as education, senior services, etc, which keeps taxes down. 

Many lottery tickets are purchased in stores where the purchaser is also buying other items as well.

[ipeters61]

What made NJ such a bad place that if you want to leave it, you have to pay a toll?

Canada's delightful Prince Edward Island is the same way, only with no free escape routes.

Because with NJ, at least there are a few free bridges over the Delaware, and the overland escape routes are free.

Only issue is if you're coming from any point south of Trenton and heading to a point south of Trenton, however.  There comes a point where the toll becomes cheaper than the extra gas used to get across the Delaware (cough, Delaware Memorial Bridge/Commodore Barry Bridge, cough).

[Beltway]

State lotteries consume disposable income that might have been spent on durable goods that would help stimulate the economy, or placed in savings that might have been spent on durable goods in the future, or placed in savings for retirement.

On the other hand, proceeds generally go to state departments such as education, senior services, etc, which keeps taxes down. 

Often get siphoned off into who-knows-where...

Many lottery tickets are purchased in stores where the purchaser is also buying other items as well.

Still consumes disposable income that might have been spent on durable goods ...

[Jim]

Regarding our side topic of lotteries, here's an excerpt from the description of one piece of an assignment my Data Structures students are wrapping up, where they simulate playing a lottery game over many drawings and track winnings and losses.

The good folks in charge of the lottery were concerned that people who did well in math, and in particular computer scientists, were not playing their "Numbers Game" nearly often enough compared to the general public. This is the game where bettors pick a 3-digit number (000 to 999 in boring old base 10) to bet on, and if they win, they get a 500:1 payout. In an attempt to combat the dismal play rate among the state's best and brightest, they decided to introduce a variant of the game that would tempt this particular group with the numbers drawn in hexadecimal and payout rates that are powers of 2! What computer scientist will be able to resist that?!

In the new game, a bettor wagers on which random hexadecimal number between 00 and FF (0-255 for the uninitiated) will be selected that day. The payoff in our game is 128:1, i.e., for a $1 bet, a match will result in a $128 payout. A $2 bet will result in a $256 payout, etc..

Unfortunately, just like the standard "Numbers Game", this only sounds great to anyone who never passed elementary school math or to those who are looking for ways to get rid of some of their money. In reality, if you play this game long enough, you should expect to lose half of the money you've wagered.

[SignBridge]

And thank you all for today's updates re: the interchange.......

[MantyMadTown]

What made NJ such a bad place that if you want to leave it, you have to pay a toll?

We charge the stupid and the lazy. If you can figure out how to leave the state without paying a toll, you get away free.

If you're driving through New Jersey on the way to somewhere else it is very hard to get anywhere without going on the NJ Turnpike, Pennsylvania Turnpike, New York State Thruway, or one of the various toll bridges in New Jersey and New York. It is just massively inconvenient to go out of your way to do otherwise.

[jeffandnicole]

What made NJ such a bad place that if you want to leave it, you have to pay a toll?

We charge the stupid and the lazy. If you can figure out how to leave the state without paying a toll, you get away free.

If you're driving through New Jersey on the way to somewhere else it is very hard to get anywhere without going on the NJ Turnpike, Pennsylvania Turnpike, New York State Thruway, or one of the various toll bridges in New Jersey and New York. It is just massively inconvenient to go out of your way to do otherwise.

Well, certainly, those roads are placed in corridors where they would produce the most traffic, and after those roads were built, many other roads and highways were built in such a way to often lead motorists to those main, existing toll roads and bridges.

That said, it's not impossible, and in many cases the willingness to trade a slightly longer drive, either in miles or minutes, for a free drive can be accomplished, especially for the toll roads.  The bridges are a bit harder to get around though, but again, not impossible.

[bzakharin]

What made NJ such a bad place that if you want to leave it, you have to pay a toll?

We charge the stupid and the lazy. If you can figure out how to leave the state without paying a toll, you get away free.

If you're driving through New Jersey on the way to somewhere else it is very hard to get anywhere without going on the NJ Turnpike, Pennsylvania Turnpike, New York State Thruway, or one of the various toll bridges in New Jersey and New York. It is just massively inconvenient to go out of your way to do otherwise.

Well, certainly, those roads are placed in corridors where they would produce the most traffic, and after those roads were built, many other roads and highways were built in such a way to often lead motorists to those main, existing toll roads and bridges.

That said, it's not impossible, and in many cases the willingness to trade a slightly longer drive, either in miles or minutes, for a free drive can be accomplished, especially for the toll roads.  The bridges are a bit harder to get around though, but again, not impossible.

What slightly longer route would avoid the NJ Turnpike north of I-195? US 1? That'll be jammed almost 24 hours a day. As for bridges, as has been mentioned before, if you're south of Trenton there is no slightly longer route to avoid paying a toll completely. And if you're going to New York City from points south and west it's even worse. There are no free Hudson river crossings south of Dunn Memorial Bridge. That (along with not touching any other toll roads along the way) will cost you >250 miles and 6 hours of driving.