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Why did MA 146 get turned into a freeway?

Started by kernals12, August 28, 2020, 06:31:13 AM

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kernals12

God knows Massachusetts has traffic problems and would benefit from some roads being turned into controlled access freeways. Route 9 for instance is forever jammed by people avoiding tolls on the pike. Route 2 has had problems with accidents on its at grade section in Concord.

But neither of these happened, instead they decided that where they really needed a new freeway was between Sutton and the Rhode Island border. So between 1981 and 2007, the 13 mile stretch of 146 became a 4 lane freeway.

Did the speaker of the state house own land along the road? It seems like a road to nowhere


hotdogPi

Worcester and Providence are both decently sized cities. It also helps with Worcester to Fall River and New Bedford.
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US 13, 44, 50
MA 22, 40, 107, 109, 117, 119, 126, 141, 159
NH 27, 111A(E); CA 133; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

Ben114

#2
Quote from: 1 on August 28, 2020, 08:08:36 AM
Worcester and Providence are both decently sized cities.

Yup. And it did good for the region (which I call home).

Quote13 mile stretch

It's 21 miles, by the way.

jp the roadgeek

They built it for the impending PawSox move to Worcester :)

But yeah, just ask Hartford and Providence the world of good a freeway between those 2 cities did.  OH, WAIT...
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

southshore720

You're also looking at this from a one-direction perspective.  As a native Rhode Islander, Route 146 is a critical connection to access the Mass Pike.  The direct access ramps to the Pike in 1997 were a game changer!  Without Route 146, Rhode Islanders would need to take I-95 to I-495 or US 6 to I-395...both routes adding much mileage and time to the journey to get to the Pike.

kernals12

I'm sure 146 is useful to some people. It's a matter of opportunity costs. Was a new expressway between Worcester and Providence really a better investment than removing some of the traffic lights on 9 between Worcester and Newton?

GaryV

Quote from: kernals12 on August 28, 2020, 11:25:07 AM
... a better investment than removing some of the traffic lights on 9 between Worcester and Newton?

Why would they want to improve a shunpike?  As opposed to making it easier for Rhode Islanders to get to the Pike?

spooky

Quote from: southshore720 on August 28, 2020, 11:12:00 AM
You're also looking at this from a one-direction perspective.  As a native Rhode Islander, Route 146 is a critical connection to access the Mass Pike.  The direct access ramps to the Pike in 1997 were a game changer!  Without Route 146, Rhode Islanders would need to take I-95 to I-495 or US 6 to I-395...both routes adding much mileage and time to the journey to get to the Pike.

Agreed. I lived in southern RI and went to school in upstate NY - my routes (which I learned from my father) were I-295 to US 6 to RI 101 to I-395/I-290 to the Pike, or I-295 to RI/MA 146, exiting on Central Turnpike in Sutton WB to I-395.

kernals12

QuoteWhy would they want to improve a shunpike?  As opposed to making it easier for Rhode Islanders to get to the Pike?

They built I-290, which enables shunpiking between Worcester and Marlborough, and they were planning to extend it to Waltham before NIMBY opposition halted the plans.

In New York, they built the Sprain Brook, which offers a free alternative to the New York State Thruway and the Saw Mill which at the time had tolls.

Route 9 is already a divided 4 lane highway and has grade separated interchanges in several places. Getting rid of all of them west of Brookline wouldn't be too hard, especially as the scenery around it is none too pleasing.

SectorZ

Quote from: kernals12 on August 28, 2020, 03:53:58 PM
QuoteWhy would they want to improve a shunpike?  As opposed to making it easier for Rhode Islanders to get to the Pike?

They built I-290, which enables shunpiking between Worcester and Marlborough, and they were planning to extend it to Waltham before NIMBY opposition halted the plans.

In New York, they built the Sprain Brook, which offers a free alternative to the New York State Thruway and the Saw Mill which at the time had tolls.

Route 9 is already a divided 4 lane highway and has grade separated interchanges in several places. Getting rid of all of them west of Brookline wouldn't be too hard, especially as the scenery around it is none too pleasing.

You make it out as if MA 9 is an expressway. It's not. From Worcester to Brookline almost all non-freeway intersections are at-grade. From Worcester, only state routes (plus a biz park in Westboro near 495) have interchanges instead of intersections, and then once getting into Newton you start getting more interchanges. It would take, right now, billions of dollars to remove all the at-grade intersections. Also, you gotta buy up all those residences on it if you want it to be limited access, and there are hundreds of millions of dollars of such property on the road. Maybe even more, every home is probably half-a-million dollars a pop if not closer to a million.

kernals12

Quote from: SectorZ on August 28, 2020, 04:23:15 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on August 28, 2020, 03:53:58 PM
QuoteWhy would they want to improve a shunpike?  As opposed to making it easier for Rhode Islanders to get to the Pike?

They built I-290, which enables shunpiking between Worcester and Marlborough, and they were planning to extend it to Waltham before NIMBY opposition halted the plans.

In New York, they built the Sprain Brook, which offers a free alternative to the New York State Thruway and the Saw Mill which at the time had tolls.

Route 9 is already a divided 4 lane highway and has grade separated interchanges in several places. Getting rid of all of them west of Brookline wouldn't be too hard, especially as the scenery around it is none too pleasing.

You make it out as if MA 9 is an expressway. It's not. From Worcester to Brookline almost all non-freeway intersections are at-grade. From Worcester, only state routes (plus a biz park in Westboro near 495) have interchanges instead of intersections, and then once getting into Newton you start getting more interchanges. It would take, right now, billions of dollars to remove all the at-grade intersections. Also, you gotta buy up all those residences on it if you want it to be limited access, and there are hundreds of millions of dollars of such property on the road. Maybe even more, every home is probably half-a-million dollars a pop if not closer to a million.

How much did the 146 freeway conversion cost?

Pete from Boston

Quote from: kernals12 on August 28, 2020, 03:53:58 PM
QuoteWhy would they want to improve a shunpike?  As opposed to making it easier for Rhode Islanders to get to the Pike?

They built I-290, which enables shunpiking between Worcester and Marlborough, and they were planning to extend it to Waltham before NIMBY opposition halted the plans.

In New York, they built the Sprain Brook, which offers a free alternative to the New York State Thruway and the Saw Mill which at the time had tolls.

Route 9 is already a divided 4 lane highway and has grade separated interchanges in several places. Getting rid of all of them west of Brookline wouldn't be too hard, especially as the scenery around it is none too pleasing.

The land acquisition costs and business displacement alone make what you're talking about cost prohibitive. I'm very familiar with that stretch of road. In Framingham and Natick it's a non-starter. West of there it's not worth the trouble.

Furthermore, this is a false dichotomy. Both of these would be, if your Route 9 separation made it in there, in a MassDOT/MPO universe of projects. It's a holistic process and it's inaccurate to suggest it's one versus the other.

At the time that the 146 "Little Dig"  project was built (the Sutton-southward project was nearly twenty years earlier), the suburbs along and west of 495 had already been among the fastest growing–if not the fastest–in the Commonwealth. Four new commuter rail stations in the area opened at this time. Investing in infrastructure here here was not hard to make sense of. As Boston became one of the three most expensive real estate markets in the country, more and more people and businesses have moved out to Worcester and Providence, a trend still ongoing, and to the suburbs around them.

Moreover, as has already been addressed, it's the primary link between the second and third largest cities in New England.

Rothman

A family friend was a Navy captain and had to frequently drive between the Pioneer Valley and Providence/Newport.  Even before the direct ramps were installed (and thank goodness they were), those in the know still would find a way to get to 146 from the Pike (e.g., up I-290) since it was still faster.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Ben114

Quote from: kernals12 on August 28, 2020, 11:25:07 AM
I'm sure 146 is useful to some people. It's a matter of opportunity costs. Was a new expressway between Worcester and Providence really a better investment than removing some of the traffic lights on 9 between Worcester and Newton?
I live here. For the region, Route 146 is currently our number one piece of transportation infrastructure that connects the region.

I have noticed loads of new development over the past 10-15 years throughout the region.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on August 28, 2020, 05:19:43 PM
At the time that the 146 "Little Dig"  project was built (the Sutton-southward project was nearly twenty years earlier), the suburbs along and west of 495 had already been among the fastest growing–if not the fastest–in the Commonwealth. Four new commuter rail stations in the area opened at this time. Investing in infrastructure here here was not hard to make sense of. As Boston became one of the three most expensive real estate markets in the country, more and more people and businesses have moved out to Worcester and Providence, a trend still ongoing, and to the suburbs around them.

Moreover, as has already been addressed, it's the primary link between the second and third largest cities in New England.
Yes - the region is fast growing. Before the Boston suburbs expanded westward towards Framingham and Worcester, Worcester was considered to have its own metro area, and the Blackstone Valley were suburbs of Worcester.

Now that the Boston suburbs expanded, the community showed support to upgrade our current infrastructure to accommodate the rise in population through the 90s and 00s. Infrastructure improves, the economy improves, and new shopping plazas, businesses, and recreation sites have popped up throughout the region.

Now the Blackstone Valley (as well as Worcester and Providence) is starting to be considered separate from Boston.

DJStephens

#14
Quote from: kernals12 on August 28, 2020, 03:53:58 PM
QuoteWhy would they want to improve a shunpike?  As opposed to making it easier for Rhode Islanders to get to the Pike?

They built I-290, which enables shunpiking between Worcester and Marlborough, and they were planning to extend it to Waltham before NIMBY opposition halted the plans.

In New York, they built the Sprain Brook, which offers a free alternative to the New York State Thruway and the Saw Mill which at the time had tolls.

Route 9 is already a divided 4 lane highway and has grade separated interchanges in several places. Getting rid of all of them west of Brookline wouldn't be too hard, especially as the scenery around it is none too pleasing.

    they (mass highway) did improve several of the Route 9 intersections to limited access interchanges.  Edgell Rd / Main St in Framingham (1967) and Speen St (1977).  Both were Interstate grade, grade separations.  More should have been done.  The Speen St work should have continued W, trenching Route 9 through the Shopper's World and Natick Mall environs.   The hill E of 126 should have been whacked down.  A cloverleaf was at one time proposed for the antiquated bridge at Route 126.  The hodge podge at that area could have been cleared.  That entire strip should have been addressed pre 1980.   
    Many of the Route 9 signals were installed at hilltop intersections, and could have been reasonably easy to convert, to grade separation, before the run up in real estate valuations.   By depressing 9 at those intersections.   Remember the one W of Framingham State, (Temple st, possibly) the 9 mainlines rose noticeably at the intersection.  Do remember there was a restaurant called Finally Michael's there.  Probably long gone.   

SectorZ

Quote from: kernals12 on August 28, 2020, 04:32:52 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on August 28, 2020, 04:23:15 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on August 28, 2020, 03:53:58 PM
QuoteWhy would they want to improve a shunpike?  As opposed to making it easier for Rhode Islanders to get to the Pike?

They built I-290, which enables shunpiking between Worcester and Marlborough, and they were planning to extend it to Waltham before NIMBY opposition halted the plans.

In New York, they built the Sprain Brook, which offers a free alternative to the New York State Thruway and the Saw Mill which at the time had tolls.

Route 9 is already a divided 4 lane highway and has grade separated interchanges in several places. Getting rid of all of them west of Brookline wouldn't be too hard, especially as the scenery around it is none too pleasing.

You make it out as if MA 9 is an expressway. It's not. From Worcester to Brookline almost all non-freeway intersections are at-grade. From Worcester, only state routes (plus a biz park in Westboro near 495) have interchanges instead of intersections, and then once getting into Newton you start getting more interchanges. It would take, right now, billions of dollars to remove all the at-grade intersections. Also, you gotta buy up all those residences on it if you want it to be limited access, and there are hundreds of millions of dollars of such property on the road. Maybe even more, every home is probably half-a-million dollars a pop if not closer to a million.

How much did the 146 freeway conversion cost?

If you're comparing land acquisition costs for what I just described for 9 and for what became the 146 freeway, then I really can't discuss this rationally anymore...

We get it, you hate 146 and think that 2 parallel freeways need to exist from Worcester to Boston.

hotdogPi

There needs to be a north-south corridor (probably not a freeway due to land costs) that goes Belmont-Watertown-Chestnut Hill. Maybe an extension of the Hammond Pond Parkway? For a bigger plan, connect it to the Middlesex Turnpike in Burlington.
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US 13, 44, 50
MA 22, 40, 107, 109, 117, 119, 126, 141, 159
NH 27, 111A(E); CA 133; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

kernals12

I wish they had built 9 as a Passenger car-only parkway. It would've prevented it from turning into an armpit of office buildings, strip malls, and car dealerships.

Rothman

Quote from: kernals12 on August 29, 2020, 10:29:29 AM
I wish they had built 9 as a Passenger car-only parkway. It would've prevented it from turning into an armpit of office buildings, strip malls, and car dealerships.
Not sure they had a choice.  Route 9 was the very old route to Boston, I believe (Bay Road).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

sprjus4

Route 9 already got a freeway, long before Route 146. It's called the Massachusetts Turnpike / I-90. It was built parallel to the previous road and usually stays within 1 or 2 miles of it.

Route 146 was and still is a two-lane road that was paralleled with a new freeway - it just happens to also be called Route 146, not some interstate designation.

It would be pointless to upgrade Route 9 to a freeway, just like it would be pointless to upgrade the old Route 146 to a freeway.

kernals12

Quote from: DJStephens on August 28, 2020, 08:20:15 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on August 28, 2020, 03:53:58 PM
QuoteWhy would they want to improve a shunpike?  As opposed to making it easier for Rhode Islanders to get to the Pike?

They built I-290, which enables shunpiking between Worcester and Marlborough, and they were planning to extend it to Waltham before NIMBY opposition halted the plans.

In New York, they built the Sprain Brook, which offers a free alternative to the New York State Thruway and the Saw Mill which at the time had tolls.

Route 9 is already a divided 4 lane highway and has grade separated interchanges in several places. Getting rid of all of them west of Brookline wouldn't be too hard, especially as the scenery around it is none too pleasing.

    they (mass highway) did improve several of the Route 9 intersections to limited access interchanges.  Edgell Rd / Main St in Framingham (1967) and Speen St (1977).  Both were Interstate grade, grade separations.  More should have been done.  The Speen St work should have continued W, trenching Route 9 through the Shopper's World and Natick Mall environs.   The hill E of 126 should have been whacked down.  A cloverleaf was at one time proposed for the antiquated bridge at Route 126.  The hodge podge at that area could have been cleared.  That entire strip should have been addressed pre 1980.   
    Many of the Route 9 signals were installed at hilltop intersections, and could have been reasonably easy to convert, to grade separation, before the run up in real estate valuations.   By depressing 9 at those intersections.   Remember the one W of Framingham State, (Temple st, possibly) the 9 mainlines rose noticeably at the intersection.  Do remember there was a restaurant called Finally Michael's there.  Probably long gone.

A less expensive option would be to build an elevated u-turn at the Concord Street Overpass. That would enable all the signalized intersections between there and Speen street to be converted to right in right out.



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