Is it frugality... or extreme cheapskate?

[kalvado]

The point I'm making is that you shouldn't just consider "having a home paid off" as a primary factor in choosing a home, but having a home that you will be happy in.

I suspect you don't realize how right you are saying this.
Just keep in mind, "happy" is a highly variable criteria.
It doesn't necessarily means the same for different people. Someone may say that living in the house which is paid off makes them happy. Or fixing a broken thing makes them happy. Or having a piece of mind about all that stuff sitting in storage that is readily available for them.
To each their own!

[ZLoth]

The point I'm making is that you shouldn't just consider "having a home paid off" as a primary factor in choosing a home, but having a home that you will be happy in.

I suspect you don't realize how right you are saying this.
Just keep in mind, "happy" is a highly variable criteria.
It doesn't necessarily means the same for different people. Someone may say that living in the house which is paid off makes them happy. Or fixing a broken thing makes them happy. Or having a piece of mind about all that stuff sitting in storage that is readily available for them.
To each their own!

Actually, when I was preparing to relocate from California to North Texas, I actually made a list of what I considered extremely important (single story,  good high speed internet, close to work), what was nice to have (four bedroom because my mother who was moving with me insisted on a guest bedroom), what is nice NOT to have (pool), and what is a dealbreaker (two story). My list as a never-married single guy with adult caregiver needs is going to be different from a younger family of four where a good school district and parks may play a more crucial factor. Furthermore, it must be affordable within one's budget, not "barely making it and hopefully, nothing major happens".

Where I lived in Sacramento County, it was, at times, considered extremely remote. My parents intended the home to be a temporary place when it was purchased in 1977, but we ended up living there for 41 years. The best I could do for Internet connectivity was ADSL at 15 Megabit down/3 Megabit up. One of the banes of my existence was the notorious Sunrise Bridge in Fair Oaks, CA, which was notorious for being extremely congested, but for most of my working life there (over 25 years), I had to cross it to get to my job. The only thing that kept me there was inheriting the low property tax rate, but I wanted out of California (multiple reasons), and the stress of living in a corner of Sacramento county all factored in my home purchase decision at the beginning of 2019, and I was damn lucky to get the home that I wanted. In the 3½ years since I purchased my home in north Texas, the estimated value went up 50% based upon the average value across RedFin, Zillow, and Realtor. And, this was before the real estate markets markets went surreal.

The kicker? We know people who lived in the Sacramento/Roseville area who super-commuted to their jobs in the San Francisco Bay Area. That, on a good day, could be two hours in each direction, plus the higher wear-and-tear and insurance costs (not to mention the higher gas prices that California is known for). The problem is, the homes were affordable in Sacramento/Roseville, while the advertising for SF area homes was like this (From a Marketwatch article published April, 2016:



Yup, it was a long reply, but I rather have the home that I have now with a modest outstanding mortgage if it means that I have a lifetime home where I am happy.

[Max Rockatansky]

I get the disdain for the Bay Area super commute and rapid urbanization of the Sacramento area.  All the same, the impression I get from your posts regarding where you talk about moving to Texas is that you think that the entirety of California is unlivable and expensive urban hell hole.  I certainly thought similar when I worked remotely from Phoenix in the major Southern California cities.  Back in 2016 I took a transfer out to NAS Lemoore after I looked into the real estate market and found it to be actually more affordable to where I was living in Orlando.  That mortgage price I noted above in Fresno is about what I was paying for an apartment in Orlando. 

[ZLoth]

I get the disdain for the Bay Area super commute and rapid urbanization of the Sacramento area.  All the same, the impression I get from your posts regarding where you talk about moving to Texas is that you think that the entirety of California is unlivable and expensive urban hell hole.

I said it before, and I'll say it again... the California that my family moved to in 1977 is not the California my mother and I escaped from at the end of 2018. There is a whole thread titled The California Dream Is Dying about this. Sure, the weather is nice and the scenery is great, but what's the point in living in paradise if you can't afford to live there? You take a look at the gas price thread, and I'm posting the Costco/Sam's Club prices in both north Texas and Sacramento where I lived/worked. The price difference is almost always $1.50 per gallon. The vehicle registration costs and cost of living (food, gas, housing costs, electricity) are much higher. Most of California's electricity is provided by PG&E (Pacific Gas and Electric), however, they are often referred to as Pacific Graft and Extortion. Their maintenance (or lack thereof) of the power lines, plus bad forest maintenance practices by the state of California, has led to some bad forest fires. One of them, the Camp Fire of November 2018, resulted in the worst air quality in Sacramento (over 300 AQI) of the entire time I lived there, and effectively wiped the town of Paradise off the map of California. Don't even get me started on that high speed "choo choo" which has turned into a monetary black home which has no hopes of breaking even, and we don't even have a completion date.

The big "bully" of California is the Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA Metro Area, and that area treats the rest of the state as "the big water straw". That MSA has a estimated combined population of 13,211,027 people, or 33.6% of the population of California . Only the states of Texas (28,635,442), Florida (21,216,924), and New York (19,514,849) have more people than this area. Los Angeles County alone is the most populated county in the United States (almost twice of #2 Cook County, Illinois at 5,169,517) and has 10,040,682 people, which makes up 25.4% of California's population. 41 states have less people than Los Angeles County. In addition, eighteen congressional districts are either partially or fully in Los Angeles County equaling that of the states of Illinois and Pennsylvania. Only the states of Texas, Florida, and New York have more congressional representatives. And 25% of the registered voters in California live in Los Angeles county. The "big sister" of California is the San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA Metro Area which has a estimated combined population of 4,709,220 people (between #24 Alabama and #25-Louisiana), or 12.0% of the population of California. Combine that was Los Angeles, and we have a population of 17,946,602, or 45.5% of California's total population.

Here is the joker in all of this... the immediate previous homeowners moved to Irvine, CA, and put the bare minimum in maintaining the home. So, I have home improvement projects for the next several years.

[Max Rockatansky]

So in summary, I'm correct that this at the root of it is just another thread about how you think Texas is better than California in every single way?  You moved to Texas because it fits your situation better, why hold on to such bitterness about something that is behind you?  I couldn't fathom acting like this about Michigan or Arizona changing to something untenable for me now that I've moved several times over. 

[Scott5114]

So in summary, I'm correct that this at the root of it is just another thread about how you think Texas is better than California in every single way?  You moved to Texas because it fits your situation better, why hold on to such bitterness about something that is behind you?  I couldn't fathom acting like about Michigan or Arizona changing to something untenable for me now that I've moved several time over. 

A lot of Texans are just like that. Having to deal with Texan exceptionalism wafting up over the border is one of the most obnoxious things one has to deal with living in Oklahoma (and is a big chunk of the reason why Oklahomans tend to dislike Texas). 

[Max Rockatansky]

So in summary, I'm correct that this at the root of it is just another thread about how you think Texas is better than California in every single way?  You moved to Texas because it fits your situation better, why hold on to such bitterness about something that is behind you?  I couldn't fathom acting like about Michigan or Arizona changing to something untenable for me now that I've moved several time over. 

A lot of Texans are just like that. Having to deal with Texan exceptionalism wafting up over the border is one of the most obnoxious things one has to deal with living in Oklahoma (and is a big chunk of the reason why Oklahomans tend to dislike Texas).

It was certainly was not something I enjoyed when I was working in New Mexico or the oil towns of the western Texas.  The irony I found was that New Mexico was much more an actual match for what Texas Bravado claims the state to be. 

[bing101]

The point I'm making is that you shouldn't just consider "having a home paid off" as a primary factor in choosing a home, but having a home that you will be happy in.

I suspect you don't realize how right you are saying this.
Just keep in mind, "happy" is a highly variable criteria.
It doesn't necessarily means the same for different people. Someone may say that living in the house which is paid off makes them happy. Or fixing a broken thing makes them happy. Or having a piece of mind about all that stuff sitting in storage that is readily available for them.
To each their own!

Actually, when I was preparing to relocate from California to North Texas, I actually made a list of what I considered extremely important (single story,  good high speed internet, close to work), what was nice to have (four bedroom because my mother who was moving with me insisted on a guest bedroom), what is nice NOT to have (pool), and what is a dealbreaker (two story). My list as a never-married single guy with adult caregiver needs is going to be different from a younger family of four where a good school district and parks may play a more crucial factor. Furthermore, it must be affordable within one's budget, not "barely making it and hopefully, nothing major happens".

Where I lived in Sacramento County, it was, at times, considered extremely remote. My parents intended the home to be a temporary place when it was purchased in 1977, but we ended up living there for 41 years. The best I could do for Internet connectivity was ADSL at 15 Megabit down/3 Megabit up. One of the banes of my existence was the notorious Sunrise Bridge in Fair Oaks, CA, which was notorious for being extremely congested, but for most of my working life there (over 25 years), I had to cross it to get to my job. The only thing that kept me there was inheriting the low property tax rate, but I wanted out of California (multiple reasons), and the stress of living in a corner of Sacramento county all factored in my home purchase decision at the beginning of 2019, and I was damn lucky to get the home that I wanted. In the 3½ years since I purchased my home in north Texas, the estimated value went up 50% based upon the average value across RedFin, Zillow, and Realtor. And, this was before the real estate markets markets went surreal.

The kicker? We know people who lived in the Sacramento/Roseville area who super-commuted to their jobs in the San Francisco Bay Area. That, on a good day, could be two hours in each direction, plus the higher wear-and-tear and insurance costs (not to mention the higher gas prices that California is known for). The problem is, the homes were affordable in Sacramento/Roseville, while the advertising for SF area homes was like this (From a Marketwatch article published April, 2016:



Yup, it was a long reply, but I rather have the home that I have now with a modest outstanding mortgage if it means that I have a lifetime home where I am happy.

I know that pretty well here in Solano County, CA we have to house both Sacramento and Bay Area commuters at the same time. I know the Fairfield,Suisun City and Vacaville areas have been mentioned at one point for having "affordable housing" for households that commute to both Sacramento and San Francisco at the same time. But that is now having to deal with traffic going to both places at the same time on I-80.  But then again we have to wait 2-3 decades to find out when Texas have issues of unaffordable housing in Austin, Dallas, Houston, Fort Worth and San Antonio. I bet it will happen at some point and where cheapskates will go after Texas is uncertain for now.

[bing101]

So in summary, I'm correct that this at the root of it is just another thread about how you think Texas is better than California in every single way?  You moved to Texas because it fits your situation better, why hold on to such bitterness about something that is behind you?  I couldn't fathom acting like about Michigan or Arizona changing to something untenable for me now that I've moved several time over. 

A lot of Texans are just like that. Having to deal with Texan exceptionalism wafting up over the border is one of the most obnoxious things one has to deal with living in Oklahoma (and is a big chunk of the reason why Oklahomans tend to dislike Texas).

Ok California used to be the same as Texas at one point when we hyped up the California Dream but we have to wake up to reality and understand that things don't last forever and reforms will have to be at play.  I can see why Texas along with Arizona, Nevada, Tennessee, Georgia and North Carolina has an ax to grind with Ex-California Residents in that they don't want their state to be gentrified like San Francisco and San Jose went through.

[Max Rockatansky]

So in summary, I'm correct that this at the root of it is just another thread about how you think Texas is better than California in every single way?  You moved to Texas because it fits your situation better, why hold on to such bitterness about something that is behind you?  I couldn't fathom acting like about Michigan or Arizona changing to something untenable for me now that I've moved several time over. 

A lot of Texans are just like that. Having to deal with Texan exceptionalism wafting up over the border is one of the most obnoxious things one has to deal with living in Oklahoma (and is a big chunk of the reason why Oklahomans tend to dislike Texas).

Ok California used to be the same as Texas at one point when we hyped up the California Dream but we have to wake up to reality and understand that does not last forever and reforms will have to be at play.  I can see why Texas along with Arizona, Nevada, Tennessee, Georgia and North Carolina has an ax to grind with Ex-California Residents in that they don't want their state to be gentrified like San Francisco and San Jose went through.

Michigan went through the downward cycle of decline when I was growing up.  The adults I was around seemingly were in denial a decline was in place for decades due to a dying economy (the auto industry).  I see a similar decline beginning in the major urban areas of California and a similar trend of denial.  The difference with California compared to Michigan is that it isn't beholden to a single economic driver.  There are certainly areas of California like the Central Valley and Central Coast which are beginning to boom. 

Let's not forget though, even in California there is precedent for boom and decline.  The northern parts of California once were dominate based off the fortunes of mining and logging, who even has living memory of those times now?  Nothing stays the same forever, the best any of us can do is find a place that makes us happy.  That may or may not be something static, for everyone that's a different thing.  Either way, I see zero need to hold bitterness about a place someone lived previously or hold antagonist views on how frugal someone may/may not be with their money.

[Scott5114]

So in summary, I'm correct that this at the root of it is just another thread about how you think Texas is better than California in every single way?  You moved to Texas because it fits your situation better, why hold on to such bitterness about something that is behind you?  I couldn't fathom acting like about Michigan or Arizona changing to something untenable for me now that I've moved several time over. 

A lot of Texans are just like that. Having to deal with Texan exceptionalism wafting up over the border is one of the most obnoxious things one has to deal with living in Oklahoma (and is a big chunk of the reason why Oklahomans tend to dislike Texas).

Ok California used to be the same as Texas at one point when we hyped up the California Dream but we have to wake up to reality and understand that does not last forever and reforms will have to be at play.  I can see why Texas along with Arizona, Nevada, Tennessee, Georgia and North Carolina has an ax to grind with Ex-California Residents in that they don't want their state to be gentrified like San Francisco and San Jose went through.

Texas has an ax to grind with the entire rest of the world because it's not Texas. It has nothing to do with rationality. They talk shit on Oklahoma too, and it's not like Oklahoma is anything but a small cheap Texas with an inferiority complex.

[ZLoth]

So in summary, I'm correct that this at the root of it is just another thread about how you think Texas is better than California in every single way?

No.

It is about the antics of frugal bordering on cheapskate people who take actions that are "penny wise, pound foolish", or who take the cheapest way out as a short-term solution, but it ends up being more expensive in the long run. We just went down this rabbit hole because of my criticism of people who take a home in the middle of nowhere just to say "I paid for it in CA$H", only to end up paying more because you have to drive long distances to shop, take the kids to school, and go to work, or the lack of services because you are in the middle of nowhere because of that choice, and then you complain about it.

You moved to Texas because it fits your situation better, why hold on to such bitterness about something that is behind you?

Because some of the "leaders" embrace the policies adopted by California and want to have the entire nation adopt those same problematic policies. You take a look at the top states for doing business, and Texas ranks near the top. Forbes ranks Texas as #2, while California is #31. CNBC ranks Texas as #4, but California as #33. In an extreme case, ChiefExecutive ranks Texas as #1, while Illinois, New York, and California is ranked #48, #49, and #50. It should be noted that people are also fleeing Chicago, Illinois and New York City as well. And, you can take a look at this opinion video on why people are leaving California, which is one of multiple videos with the theme "WTF happened to California"?

Guess which state my family moved away from in 1977. Ironically, upstate New York near Rose, NY which happened to be about 45 miles away from Rochester. Rochester used to be a great city as well.

Texas has already changed since I moved here 3½ years ago. The gold rush days of picking up a property cheap here is already over. I look at the value of my home, and I would not be able to afford it today. Just because Texas worked out for me doesn't mean it will work out for everyone, and I advise anyone to make sure to check out some other states as well. It just happened that my job relocated to north Texas. And, unfortunately, Austin is turning into California East. I don't want to turn Texas into California, I just want to live in peace as a Texan. Now, pass me to brisket and point me to Buc-ees.

[hotdogPi]

You keep mentioning costs, but wages are higher in California than in Texas.

You take a look at the top states for doing business, and Texas ranks near the top. Forbes ranks Texas as #2, while California is #31. CNBC ranks Texas as #4, but California as #33. In an extreme case, ChiefExecutive ranks Texas as #1, while Illinois, New York, and California is ranked #48, #49, and #50.

Those rankings are for the corporate side, not the workers' side. They don't matter to most individuals.

[ZLoth]

You keep mentioning costs, but wages are higher in California than in Texas.

Wages are higher in California.... because the cost of living is higher in California.

You take a look at the top states for doing business, and Texas ranks near the top. Forbes ranks Texas as #2, while California is #31. CNBC ranks Texas as #4, but California as #33. In an extreme case, ChiefExecutive ranks Texas as #1, while Illinois, New York, and California is ranked #48, #49, and #50.

Those rankings are for the corporate side, not the workers' side. They don't matter to most individuals.

Yes, they do. Creating a friendly business environment creates employment for individuals. And, I feel the opportunities in the DFW area are better than they were in the Sacramento area.

[kalvado]

You keep mentioning costs, but wages are higher in California than in Texas.

You take a look at the top states for doing business, and Texas ranks near the top. Forbes ranks Texas as #2, while California is #31. CNBC ranks Texas as #4, but California as #33. In an extreme case, ChiefExecutive ranks Texas as #1, while Illinois, New York, and California is ranked #48, #49, and #50.

Those rankings are for the corporate side, not the workers' side. They don't matter to most individuals.

Think about it from the business perspective: if same product can be made in a state with $1M homes and in a state with $400k homes, where would end product be more competitive? That's not the only factor, apparently. NY is murdered by teacher's union, for example; not sure what the deal is with IL. But overall, the more money is spent on keeping things moving - the higher end price to the customer would be. 
Of course, that's not true for every business; local restaurants would have to be local no matter what (although there may be fewer of them at the end of the day), some businesses are locked in to customer locations. Global business, though, moves from California to Texas to China and further on, especially as workforce qualifications and available resources  cannot support keeping it in expensive location any further. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Total aside, at the Philadelphia Meet there was Buc-ee's stickers being handed out given since it has become a meme for a lot of us in the road community.  I'm still amazed at how a handful of Freewayjim types have inspired so much dislike of a business as they have with Buc-ee's. 

Regarding moving, I'm presently on my third work stint in California and the first time working here.  I'm not a particular fan of everything that goes on here also politically.  All the same really life is what you make of it and it.  When it comes down to much of the political arena doesn't have the affect on day to day life that people tend to give it.

During the first two times I worked in California it was down south in the bigger cities.  I was offered transfer opportunities, but none of them came with relocation raises that made it worth it (I seem to recall asking 25% and only getting 10-15% counter offers).  With the current instance where I am now I got the increase I wanted, but I'm also in a way less urbanized area and didn't have anyone to compete with on the transfer.  I also had the opportunity to buy into real estate reasonably here, I was only looking to rent during the previous two stints. 

It feels odd sometimes that getting into a home when we did actually went exactly to plan, but sometimes things like that work out.  My usual stance on a work location is to stay 2-4 years and move on the next transfer.  Presently I'm on year 7 for current location and I don't anticipate transferring soon because of the cost of living associated with a having a largely static low cost mortgage.  Perhaps when another city presents itself that has the following we will consider moving:

-  An affordable real estate market like the one we bought into. 
-  A location that my wife can continue to use her four year degree and keep building on her current pension (worth noting that I wasn't married until I moved to California).
-  Has similar outdoor recreational access. 

In particular that last item was by far the worst things about Florida.  In Florida outdoor opportunities for things like hiking were plainly minimal at best.  Sure the cost of day to day goods was low, but what does that matter when you are so bored that it becomes borderline depressing?  Maybe it's just me, but the concept of moving somewhere just to sit around and never do anything to be a different type frugality. 

[Rothman]

You keep mentioning costs, but wages are higher in California than in Texas.

You take a look at the top states for doing business, and Texas ranks near the top. Forbes ranks Texas as #2, while California is #31. CNBC ranks Texas as #4, but California as #33. In an extreme case, ChiefExecutive ranks Texas as #1, while Illinois, New York, and California is ranked #48, #49, and #50.

Those rankings are for the corporate side, not the workers' side. They don't matter to most individuals.

Think about it from the business perspective: if same product can be made in a state with $1M homes and in a state with $400k homes, where would end product be more competitive? That's not the only factor, apparently. NY is murdered by teacher's union, for example;

Wut.

[CtrlAltDel]

So in summary, I'm correct that this at the root of it is just another thread about how you think Texas is better than California in every single way?

No.

Apparently, it's about how Texas used to be better than California in every single way.

That would explain why he didn't bring up Texas's more recent electricity fiasco, which killed anywhere from 200 to 700 people.

[NWI_Irish96]

Only 35¢ per mile? The current GSA rate, effective July 1, is 62.5¢ per mile (even recognizing gas prices have dropped these past few weeks).

Depends what you're looking at.  The standard mileage rate of 62.5¢ is intended to cover not only fuel but also vehicle maintenance and wear/tear.  The mileage rate for relocation (qualifying active military servicemembers) and medical, which covers only fuel, is only 22¢.

Amusingly my travel claim forms still display 58.5¢ per mile.

Generally your employer may reimburse any amount it wishes, up to the rate limit.  If they reimburse less, you can claim the difference as a business expense on your income tax return.  My previous employer's reimbursement rate was always at least a dime under the current IRS rate.  Cheapskate.

I'm a Federal employee, the amusement is our travel department hasn't given us new forms with the current mileage rate. 

In my past employment in the private world my mileage reimbursement rate was usually between .48-.52 cents on the mile circa 2010-2013. 

Your travel isn't filed electronically? There is a system called E2 for claiming government travel. You just input your dates, destination, mileage, and upload your hotel bill and it calculates everything.

Ironically, as I was reading this topic, I got an email that the minimum government rate for hotels is going up from $96 to $98 on 10/1.

[kalvado]

You keep mentioning costs, but wages are higher in California than in Texas.

You take a look at the top states for doing business, and Texas ranks near the top. Forbes ranks Texas as #2, while California is #31. CNBC ranks Texas as #4, but California as #33. In an extreme case, ChiefExecutive ranks Texas as #1, while Illinois, New York, and California is ranked #48, #49, and #50.

Those rankings are for the corporate side, not the workers' side. They don't matter to most individuals.

Think about it from the business perspective: if same product can be made in a state with $1M homes and in a state with $400k homes, where would end product be more competitive? That's not the only factor, apparently. NY is murdered by teacher's union, for example;

Wut.

You never realized what the cost of K-12 in NY is, right?

[MikeTheActuary]

There's frequently a cost to living in low cost-of-living areas.  Certain jobs may not be available (although that may be less of a concern given the greater acceptance, for now, of WFH), fewer desirable recreational activities may be available, the weather may suck, school quality may be crap, culture may be repressive, etc.

I tend to make big decisions with essentially cost-benefit analyses.   However, some of the costs and benefits that need to be considered don't have dollar signs attached.  Evaluating those will depend on you / your family's interests, needs, and preferences.

Living in Connecticut is financially expensive (although not as expensive as a few other places).  However, accepting that expense opens the door to access to multiple potential jobs for my profession, easy access to a variety of recreational activities, a climate I find more comfortable than many other places, etc., etc., etc.

My wife and I have looked at moving someplace less expensive, but the intangible costs of things that we would give up don't have me terribly excited about such a move.

[kalvado]

So in summary, I'm correct that this at the root of it is just another thread about how you think Texas is better than California in every single way?

No.

Apparently, it's about how Texas used to be better than California in every single way.

That would explain why he didn't bring up Texas's more recent electricity fiasco, which killed anywhere from 200 to 700 people.

And I remember NE electricity fiasco of 2003... And controlled power outages in CA. Which gives?

[Max Rockatansky]

Only 35¢ per mile? The current GSA rate, effective July 1, is 62.5¢ per mile (even recognizing gas prices have dropped these past few weeks).

Depends what you're looking at.  The standard mileage rate of 62.5¢ is intended to cover not only fuel but also vehicle maintenance and wear/tear.  The mileage rate for relocation (qualifying active military servicemembers) and medical, which covers only fuel, is only 22¢.

Amusingly my travel claim forms still display 58.5¢ per mile.

Generally your employer may reimburse any amount it wishes, up to the rate limit.  If they reimburse less, you can claim the difference as a business expense on your income tax return.  My previous employer's reimbursement rate was always at least a dime under the current IRS rate.  Cheapskate.

I'm a Federal employee, the amusement is our travel department hasn't given us new forms with the current mileage rate. 

In my past employment in the private world my mileage reimbursement rate was usually between .48-.52 cents on the mile circa 2010-2013. 

Your travel isn't filed electronically? There is a system called E2 for claiming government travel. You just input your dates, destination, mileage, and upload your hotel bill and it calculates everything.

Ironically, as I was reading this topic, I got an email that the minimum government rate for hotels is going up from $96 to $98 on 10/1.

I'm at an NF agency, generally we lag behind everyone on being to date on things like that.  Our Travel Branch still hasn't gotten me the travel card I was approved for two months ago.

[bing101]

So in summary, I'm correct that this at the root of it is just another thread about how you think Texas is better than California in every single way?  You moved to Texas because it fits your situation better, why hold on to such bitterness about something that is behind you?  I couldn't fathom acting like about Michigan or Arizona changing to something untenable for me now that I've moved several time over. 

A lot of Texans are just like that. Having to deal with Texan exceptionalism wafting up over the border is one of the most obnoxious things one has to deal with living in Oklahoma (and is a big chunk of the reason why Oklahomans tend to dislike Texas).

Ok California used to be the same as Texas at one point when we hyped up the California Dream but we have to wake up to reality and understand that does not last forever and reforms will have to be at play.  I can see why Texas along with Arizona, Nevada, Tennessee, Georgia and North Carolina has an ax to grind with Ex-California Residents in that they don't want their state to be gentrified like San Francisco and San Jose went through.

Michigan went through the downward cycle of decline when I was growing up.  The adults I was around seemingly were in denial a decline was in place for decades due to a dying economy (the auto industry).  I see a similar decline beginning in the major urban areas of California and a similar trend of denial.  The difference with California compared to Michigan is that it isn't beholden to a single economic driver.  There are certainly areas of California like the Central Valley and Central Coast which are beginning to boom. 

Let's not forget though, even in California there is precedent for boom and decline.  The northern parts of California once were dominate based off the fortunes of mining and logging, who even has living memory of those times now?  Nothing stays the same forever, the best any of us can do is find a place that makes us happy.  That may or may not be something static, for everyone that's a different thing.  Either way, I see zero need to hold bitterness about a place someone lived previously or hold antagonist views on how frugal someone may/may not be with their money.

True there are some cities in California that did go Bankrupt in the 2008 recession like Vallejo ,CA it's because it was once known for Ship Building on Mare Island at one time. In recent years Vallejo is known as a place that attracts people that cannot afford a home in San Francisco, Oakland and Berkeley but want to be near their jobs in the city it was at one time viewed as being a cheapskate. Also Vallejo is known for being a stand in for San Francisco in movie scenes to get around the costs of filming in San Francisco.  The other industry in Vallejo is assembling Rail parts on Mare Island at the Alstom factory. In this case Alstom assembles light rail for Los Angeles Metro.

https://www.visitvallejo.com/film-office/13-reasons-why-film-locations-in-vallejo-ca
https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-of-vallejo-california-what-its-like-2017-7
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/vallejo-calif-once-bankrupt-is-now-a-model-for-cities-in-an-age-of-austerity/2012/05/23/gJQAjLKglU_story.html

https://solanopublictransitfans.neocities.org/
Also Vacaville has been stepping up to attract Biotech Companies to the area as part of the battle to keep jobs from moving to other states and to offset jobs losses from other industries. This is a three part ploy to get attention from  investors in the Bay Area, get attention from lobbyists in Sacramento and researchers from UC Davis. All of this is that there are parts of California that are responding to the downturn in response to jobs moving to Texas.

https://www.davisvanguard.org/2021/07/vacaville-lands-a-major-bay-area-biotech-company/
https://solanoedc.org/news/vacaville-stepping-up-its-biotech-attraction-and-retention-efforts
https://www.thereporter.com/2021/07/09/agenus-purchases-site-in-vacaville-for-biomanufacturing-center/
The point is that there are parts of California that are not in denial of a downturn. It's those that went through bankruptcies in the recent past like Vallejo. Note Vacaville was also affected due to the effects of Vallejo going bankrupt in 2008 and are in the same county as Vallejo, CA are.

It's odd how the epicenter of recent recessions the 2008 edition and the 2020 COVID-19 shutdown due to quarantine operations at Travis Air Force Base originated in Solano County, CA and that's what sparked some people to leave the state of California in both cases. This is where Texas end up having an Ax to grind on California.


https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/travis-afb-4-coronavirus-cases/

[ZLoth]

Apparently, it's about how Texas used to be better than California in every single way.

I never claimed that Texas is better in every single way, only that I'm happier here than in California.

That would explain why he didn't bring up Texas's more recent electricity fiasco, which killed anywhere from 200 to 700 people.

Are you talking about the February, 2021 extreme weather event where it snowed in Houston as well as the DFW area (where the expected snowfall is a "dusting" in the northern part once a year.... maybe), but the only snowplows were at the airport? That Dallas hit the third lowest recorded low on record? Or how most of the Texas infrastructure is built for high temperatures, high winds, and occasional "rocks from the sky" (that's large-sized hail), not "Wisconsin-type winter temperatures"? Should I also mention that I'm currently paying 10.91¢/kWh which, although a increase from last years rate of 8.67¢/kWh? SoCal Edison charges 28¢/kWh for their tier 1 service, while San Diego Gas and Electric charges 39.295¢/kWh.

Should I also mention that California wants to ban gas cars by 2035, but turns around and says "Don't charge your electric vehicles during this heat wave, the electric system is strained"?