This sounds like it should be pretty common, but I'm not sure. Nowadays any major county road important enough to warrant busting straight through an intersection without a concurrency is probably paved.
Thread inspired by a Robert Johnson discussion elsewhere.
If I'm understanding your intention correctly, literally everywhere in the western states.
Chris
Huh? There are four-way intersections of unpaved roads all over the place.
random example near me (https://goo.gl/maps/UPsag1ZXEQ2RJQG89)
Way too common California to even be a novelty.
Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2020, 12:45:21 AM
This sounds like it should be pretty common, but I'm not sure. Nowadays any major county road important enough to warrant busting straight through an intersection without a concurrency is probably paved.
Thread inspired by a Robert Johnson discussion elsewhere.
I am with ya. Not to sound all big headed, but in Texas, unpaved roads are extremely hard to find, and usually when you find one, they turn off of a well maintained road, so the intersection of two unpaved roads in Texas is kinda a white whale.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yup. You find them all over California once you get away from the main cities. This is the area around Landers (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2700002,-116.3906567,6220m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) just north of Joshua Tree. It has a grid pattern for the streets and all are dirt except the few main roads. As Max said, too common to be a novelty.
All over the place in Michigan. I can't think of a county that doesn't have a dirt road intersecting with another dirt road. Close example for me would be in western Saginaw County. A lot of the back roads in western Saginaw County become dirt roads with like Hemlock and Merrill being the only two north-south roads west of M-52 that aren't dirt at any point even Meridian becomes a dirt road which is a north-south road stretching the entire length of the state of Michigan.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 12, 2020, 01:24:29 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2020, 12:45:21 AM
This sounds like it should be pretty common, but I'm not sure. Nowadays any major county road important enough to warrant busting straight through an intersection without a concurrency is probably paved.
Thread inspired by a Robert Johnson discussion elsewhere.
I am with ya. Not to sound all big headed, but in Texas, unpaved roads are extremely had to find, and usually when you find one, they turn off of a well maintained road, so the intersection of two unpaved roads in Texas is kinda a white whale.
I searched for quite a while in y'all's area of Texas before my last post, and here is what I found:
1. Three-way intersections are
way more common than four-way intersections around there, especially on minor roads. This makes the pool of intersections to draw from smaller than it might otherwise appear. It also means that the remaining four-way intersections are likely to be either in a residential area or else not very minor. These things aren't really the case in many other states.
2. There are several three-quarter examples out there. I found more than one four-way intersection in central Texas at which only one leg was paved. Close but not quite.
3. Compared to those in Oklahoma and Kansas, minor roads are more likely to be paved in Texas. Not only is there an extensive secondary state highway system, but a good number of county roads are paved as well.
4. Go to other parts of Texas, though, and you're more likely to find what you're looking for. It took almost no time at all, for example, to find
this in the Panhandle (https://goo.gl/maps/gk6C5im934vagLoX9). And it took only a couple of minutes to find
one with GSV (https://goo.gl/maps/iVLRngi88XUzDNc79).
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 02:21:31 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 12, 2020, 01:24:29 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2020, 12:45:21 AM
This sounds like it should be pretty common, but I'm not sure. Nowadays any major county road important enough to warrant busting straight through an intersection without a concurrency is probably paved.
Thread inspired by a Robert Johnson discussion elsewhere.
I am with ya. Not to sound all big headed, but in Texas, unpaved roads are extremely had to find, and usually when you find one, they turn off of a well maintained road, so the intersection of two unpaved roads in Texas is kinda a white whale.
I searched for quite a while in y'all's area of Texas before my last post, and here is what I found:
1. Three-way intersections are way more common than four-way intersections around there, especially on minor roads. This makes the pool of intersections to draw from smaller than it might otherwise appear. It also means that the remaining four-way intersections are likely to be either in a residential area or else not very minor. These things aren't really the case in many other states.
2. There are several three-quarter examples out there. I found more than one four-way intersection in central Texas at which only one leg was paved. Close but not quite.
3. Compared to those in Oklahoma and Kansas, minor roads are more likely to be paved in Texas. Not only is there an extensive secondary state highway system, but a good number of county roads are paved as well.
4. Go to other parts of Texas, though, and you're more likely to find what you're looking for. It took almost no time at all, for example, to find this in the Panhandle (https://goo.gl/maps/gk6C5im934vagLoX9). And it took only a couple of minutes to find one with GSV (https://goo.gl/maps/iVLRngi88XUzDNc79).
The Panhandle is so foreign to me I don't even consider it the same state.
There are probably some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 02:21:31 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 12, 2020, 01:24:29 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2020, 12:45:21 AM
This sounds like it should be pretty common, but I'm not sure. Nowadays any major county road important enough to warrant busting straight through an intersection without a concurrency is probably paved.
Thread inspired by a Robert Johnson discussion elsewhere.
I am with ya. Not to sound all big headed, but in Texas, unpaved roads are extremely had to find, and usually when you find one, they turn off of a well maintained road, so the intersection of two unpaved roads in Texas is kinda a white whale.
I searched for quite a while in y'all's area of Texas before my last post, and here is what I found:
1. Three-way intersections are way more common than four-way intersections around there, especially on minor roads. This makes the pool of intersections to draw from smaller than it might otherwise appear. It also means that the remaining four-way intersections are likely to be either in a residential area or else not very minor. These things aren't really the case in many other states.
2. There are several three-quarter examples out there. I found more than one four-way intersection in central Texas at which only one leg was paved. Close but not quite.
3. Compared to those in Oklahoma and Kansas, minor roads are more likely to be paved in Texas. Not only is there an extensive secondary state highway system, but a good number of county roads are paved as well.
4. Go to other parts of Texas, though, and you're more likely to find what you're looking for. It took almost no time at all, for example, to find this in the Panhandle (https://goo.gl/maps/gk6C5im934vagLoX9). And it took only a couple of minutes to find one with GSV (https://goo.gl/maps/iVLRngi88XUzDNc79).
Okay, joking aside, I have driven a lot of this state, but the panhandle is an area I have driven only 10 times in my life, maybe more, and it's usually the same roads, major US highways and I-40 and I-27. I am not surprised to hear there are a fair amount of unpaved roads up there. Just when I read the thread two things come to mind. One, Texas loves to brag about how every state maintained road is paved, and B, all the back, back, back woods driving I have done in this state in areas that are downright poor, still have every road paved. Granted I am talking, central, east, northeast southeast and north Texas. I think there are a lot of unpaved roads that intersect around the Texas side of New Mexico's southeastern most corner, but a lot of them are on private property and they just don't cross my mind.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 12, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
There are probably some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.
There probably aren't any in Massachusetts. I don't know of any.
Just in Manistee County, MI:
Examples
Feldhak Rd/Adamson Lake Rd
Kerry Rd/Kenny Rd
Kerry Rd/Farnsworth Rd
Nine Mile Bridge Rd/Claybank Rd
Steinberg Rd/Nine Mile Bridge Rd
Steinberg Rd/Marzinski Rd
Cedar Creek Rd/Michigan Ave
Cedar Creek Rd/Voelm Rd
Cedar Creek Rd/Seaman Rd
Flarity Rd/Clements Rd
Pole Rd/Clements Rd
Sedlar Rd/Lenz Rd
Hulls Rd/Litzen Rd
Benton Rd/Litzen Rd
Valencourt Rd/Erwin Rd
Rice Rd/Viaduct Rd
Rice Rd/Litzen Rd
Rice Rd/Erwin Rd
Read Rd/Erwin Rd
Read Rd/Litzen Rd
Read Rd/Viaduct Rd
Adams Rd/Viaduct Rd
Makinen Rd/Pahkanen Rd
Makinen Rd/Puustinen Rd
Creamery Rd/Holso Rd
Creamery Rd/Puustinen Rd
Eight Mile Rd/Elm Rd
Husiar Rd/Moss Rd
Connelly Rd/Peacock Rd
Thomas Rd/Mary Rd
Near-misses
Cedar Creek Rd/Baker Rd (Cedar Creek jogs very slightly)
Lahti Rd/Jouppi Rd (Jouppi is paved to the south)
Valencourt Rd/Viaduct Rd (Valencourt jogs very slightly)
Dickson Rd/Keith Rd (1. Keith Rd is paved to the north; 2. Keith Rd jogs slightly)
Guenthardt Rd/Kettle Hole Rd (Kettle Hole is paved to the south)
I think what could make this thread more interesting is narrowing it to 4-way stop signs on dirt roads.
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 12, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
There are probably some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.
There probably aren't any in Massachusetts. I don't know of any.
Possibly on one of the islands. I don't know a ton about Massachusetts though.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 12, 2020, 03:50:36 PM
I think what could make this thread more interesting is narrowing it to 4-way stop signs on dirt roads.
Now that I haven't seen. Most of the time they seem to have yield signs.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 12, 2020, 04:15:18 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 12, 2020, 03:50:36 PM
I think what could make this thread more interesting is narrowing it to 4-way stop signs on dirt roads.
Now that I haven't seen. Most of the time they seem to have yield signs.
Yeah, I could come up with a ton of ones that have (a) a two-way stop, (b) a two-way yield, or (c) no signs at all. But I'm hard-pressed to come up with an unpaved four-way intersection. The best bet is probably going to be a residential neighborhood with gravel roads. But, even then, I don't know "gravel" counts as "dirt" for this exercise.
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 12, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
There are probably some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.
There probably aren't any in Massachusetts. I don't know of any.
There might be some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 12, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
There are probably some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.
There probably aren't any in Massachusetts. I don't know of any.
There's a bunch of 3-way intersections all over the state, especially in the five western counties. Encountered many on bike rides living in Fitchburg. East of Worcester county, not so much.
Here is one that could be argued is either a 3-way next to a 3-way, or a total 5-way intersection. (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Royalston,+MA/@42.6991838,-72.1275768,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e1425fc3d23985:0x22b93e046582a58e!8m2!3d42.6775856!4d-72.1878604) No street view and kind of hard to tell on satellite, so you'll just have to take my word on it.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 12, 2020, 03:50:36 PM
I think what could make this thread more interesting is narrowing it to 4-way stop signs on dirt roads.
How about 4 way intersections of dirt roads with traffic signals? :-D
On a side note, I have always been fascinated with dirt roads having at-grade intersections with railroad tracks that have full crossing lights, bells and lowering crossing gates. I have seen this before. Must scour for evidence.
When they first built M-14, Gottfredson Road was still dirt. The only paved part was the bridge over the freeway and the exit area.
Concerning MA, I can only think of three-way intersections. But, I do like the intersection at Pratt Corners (Shutesbury Rd/Cushman Rd in Shutesbury, MA). My father considered starting some sort of convenience store on that triangle of land.
My county, which is the second-most populous county in the Denver metro area, probably has hundreds, perhaps upwards of 1,000.
Chris
Quote from: GaryV on August 12, 2020, 05:48:23 PM
When they first built M-14, Gottfredson Road was still dirt. The only paved part was the bridge over the freeway and the exit area.
It still is south of Plymouth Road and north of Territorial. It's only paved for about 2 miles. Both Warren and Cherry Hill are also dirt roads when they cross Gottfredson.
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 12:23:47 PM
Huh? There are four-way intersections of unpaved roads all over the place.
random example near me (https://goo.gl/maps/UPsag1ZXEQ2RJQG89)
weld co, colo makes it interesting, with many having no stop signs in any direction.. you just sort of solve the triangle if you see anyone on a side road, and it mostly works out.
Some more in Michigan:
Mason County (may have missed a few; Mason County has A LOT)
Koenig Rd/Darr Rd
Koenig Rd/Tuttle Rd
Koenig Rd/Stephens Rd
Campbell Rd/Koenig Rd
Freeman Rd/Tuttle Rd (Freeman/Darr just misses as Freeman is paved to the west)
Townline Rd/Darr Rd
Townline Rd/Tuttle Rd
Beyer Rd/Stephens Rd
Beyer Rd/Quarterline Rd
Beyer Rd/Anderson Rd
Fountain Rd/Meyers Rd
Dewey Rd/Peterson Rd
Victory Dr/Amber Rd (Dewey/Amber just misses as Dewey is paved to the west)
Fisher Rd/Amber Rd
Millerton Rd/Stephens Rd
Dewey Rd/Stephens Rd
Dewey Rd/Schoenherr Rd
Decker Rd/Stephens Rd
Decker Rd/Tuttle Rd
Decker Rd/Larson Rd
Kinney Rd/Tuttle Rd
Kinney Rd/Appleton Rd (oddly, Kinney Rd has short paved segments on each side of Appleton in the vicinity of the intersection, but Kinney is dirt immediately around the Appleton intersection)
Kinney Rd/Schwass Rd
Marrison Rd/Morton Rd
Washington Rd/Schwass Rd/96th Ave [Oceana County line]
Anthony Rd/Ordway Rd
Anthony Rd/Eden Lake Rd
Campbell Rd/Yonker Rd/Freeman Rd (a five-way dirt road crossing!)
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on August 13, 2020, 05:57:40 PM
weld co, colo makes it interesting, with many having no stop signs in any direction.. you just sort of solve the triangle if you see anyone on a side road, and it mostly works out.
Uncontrolled intersections are totally commonplace in this part of the country. Most unpaved rural intersections are uncontrolled. I live between two uncontrolled intersections here in Wichita.
Quote from: kphogerUncontrolled intersections are totally commonplace in this many parts of the country.
FTFY. Not just the Plains, but the Midwest, New England, and Deep South as well.
Regarding the OP, there aren't many in Vermont, but there are a few here and there...there's at least one in my town near Caspian Lake.
Quote from: kphoger on August 14, 2020, 10:42:18 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on August 13, 2020, 05:57:40 PM
weld co, colo makes it interesting, with many having no stop signs in any direction.. you just sort of solve the triangle if you see anyone on a side road, and it mostly works out.
Uncontrolled intersections are totally commonplace in this part of the country. Most unpaved rural intersections are uncontrolled. I live between two uncontrolled intersections here in Wichita.
Heck there are several uncontrolled intersections in the City of Saginaw. They aren't at any real major intersections but they are around.
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 04:18:42 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 12, 2020, 04:15:18 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 12, 2020, 03:50:36 PM
I think what could make this thread more interesting is narrowing it to 4-way stop signs on dirt roads.
Now that I haven't seen. Most of the time they seem to have yield signs.
Yeah, I could come up with a ton of ones that have (a) a two-way stop, (b) a two-way yield, or (c) no signs at all. But I'm hard-pressed to come up with an unpaved four-way intersection. The best bet is probably going to be a residential neighborhood with gravel roads. But, even then, I don't know "gravel" counts as "dirt" for this exercise.
Aha! Eureka! I finally figured out how to find a four-way stop of unpaved roads.
Behold! (https://goo.gl/maps/2hXjqaX9vrYbh9ww8)
Amusingly, one of the stop signs at that intersection appears to have been knocked down or removed while the person was driving around town taking GSV imagery.
(https://i.imgur.com/P8RLb1J.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/k47nkwTH/Kotzebue.png)
Kotzebue, AK.
Chris
Allegan County, Michigan (a surprisingly high amount considering Allegan County has over 100,000 people living in it)
104th Ave/44th St
104th Ave/58th St
104th Ave/63rd St
106th Ave/28th St
106th Ave/49th St
107th Ave/55th St
110th Ave/38th St
110th Ave/42nd St
110th Ave/46th St
110th Ave/49th St
110th Ave/50th St
110th Ave/52nd St
111th Ave/60th St
112th Ave/14th St
112th Ave/19th St
112th Ave/22nd St
112th Ave/49th St
114th Ave/6th St
114th Ave/19th St
115th Ave/42nd St
116th Ave/48th St
117th Ave/51st St
117th Ave/54th St
118th Ave/21st St
118th Ave/23rd St
120th Ave/16th St
120th Ave/48th St
120th Ave/52nd St
122nd Ave/6th St
122nd Ave/7th St
122nd Ave/48th St
123rd Ave/15th St
124th Ave/14th St (despite 124th having a US-131 exit a mile east of here!)
124th Ave/22nd St
125th Ave/15th St
125th Ave/17th St
125th Ave/19th St
126th Ave/14th St
126th Ave/35th St
127th Ave/38th St
127th Ave/41st St
128th Ave/60th St/Riverside Dr
130th Ave/13th St
132nd Ave/16th St
132nd Ave/20th St
132nd Ave/34th St
132nd Ave/36th St
132nd Ave/38th St (not 100% certain, but 38th may be paved in this area)
132nd Ave/50th St
133rd Ave/20th St
136th Ave/14th St
136th Ave/16th St
138th Ave/14th St
138th Ave/16th St
140th Ave/2nd St
140th Ave/16th St
144th Ave/21st St
144th Ave/22nd St
146th Ave/14th St
146th Ave/16th St
146th Ave/17th St
146th Ave/21st St
Near-misses (4-way intersections with only one paved leg)
106th Ave/64th St (64th paved to the north)
115th Ave/14th St (115th paved to the west)
117th Ave/54th St (117th paved to the west)
126th Ave/22nd St (22nd paved to the north)
127th Ave/28th St (28th paved to the south)
128th Ave/54th St/Old Allegan Rd (128th paved to the west)
130th Ave/34th St (130th paved to the east)
132nd Ave/28th St (132nd paved to the west)
132nd Ave/32nd St (132nd paved to the east)
133rd Ave/13th St (13th paved to the north)
140th Ave/14th St (14th paved to the north)
144th Ave/24th St (144th paved to the west)
Also, 122nd Ave/23rd St qualified as of 2013/14, but 122nd in that area has been paved since then.
Nearly the entire town of Ekalaka, MT is dirt. Plenty of cross roads there.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on August 09, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
Nearly the entire town of Ekalaka, MT is dirt. Plenty of cross roads there.
Hey, they've moved up in the world. There are two paved roads that lead out of town now.
Quote from: FrCorySticha on August 10, 2021, 12:31:44 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on August 09, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
Nearly the entire town of Ekalaka, MT is dirt. Plenty of cross roads there.
Hey, they've moved up in the world. There are two paved roads that lead out of town now.
True
I just drove down MT 7 and then on through to MTS 323. I didn't immediately turn onto MTS 323 and drove into town.