Large-enough cities passed over for control-city status

[noelbotevera]

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.167924,-115.1590549,3a,15y,25.69h,96.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sq_zYT83rMf2p4pOOjK_krA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dq_zYT83rMf2p4pOOjK_krA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D30.93326%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

Excuse the long link, but this gantry skips quite a lot of cities.

The I-15 sign skips St. George.
The US 95 sign skips a whole lot of nothing. The largest town US 95 passes through to reach I-80 (to get to Reno) is Winnemucca.
The US 93 sign skips Henderson, Kingman (in Arizona), and Wickenburg.

[kkt]

The I-15 sign skips St. George.
The US 95 sign skips a whole lot of nothing. The largest town US 95 passes through to reach I-80 (to get to Reno) is Winnemucca.
The US 93 sign skips Henderson, Kingman (in Arizona), and Wickenburg.

Yeah, but the cities that they skip are much smaller and less well-known.  I think they're right to skip them.  They're passed the recommended message loading for one gantry already.

[Kacie Jane]

You don't pass through Winnemucca on the way to Reno. You hit I-80 just north of Fallon, then take either I-80 west to Reno or I-80 east (concurrent with 95 north) to Winnemucca.

[Buffaboy]

I-90/Thruway almost never uses Rochester and Syracuse as control cities (it's always Albany and Buffalo (and Erie west of the latter)).

These are the only signs I know of that have Rochester as a control city, and I don't know of any that have Syracuse.

I would add Utica to the list. It was once a control city in the Syracuse area for I-481 but has since been removed.

[roadfro]

The I-15 sign skips St. George.
The US 95 sign skips a whole lot of nothing. The largest town US 95 passes through to reach I-80 (to get to Reno) is Winnemucca.
The US 93 sign skips Henderson, Kingman (in Arizona), and Wickenburg.

Yeah, but the cities that they skip are much smaller and less well-known.  I think they're right to skip them.  They're passed the recommended message loading for one gantry already.

Note in this direction, there is currently an auxiliary sign for I-515/US 93/US 95 south listing Henderson and Boulder City.

Prior to the Spaghetti Bowl rebuild in the late 1990s, the northbound signs on I-15 at this location used the following:
I-15/US 93 north - North Las Vegas, Salt Lake City
US 93/US 95 south - Phoenix, Needles (Needles being on US 95)
US 95 north - Tonopah, Reno


Nevada DOT typical practice now is to just use one major city/traffic generator for control cities in the indicated direction. Many signs around the state's freeways are reducing sign loading in this manner. Thus, newer signs for US 95 north in the Las Vegas area just use "Reno" instead of the formerly common "Tonopah / Reno". This also explains the removal of "Needles" from US 93/US 95 southbound signs, in favor of just "Phoenix".

For Interstate highways, NDOT tends to use the control city listed in AASHTO's book (hence the removal of "Salt Lake" from signs on I-80 east in Reno, in favor of the much smaller "Elko").

You don't pass through Winnemucca on the way to Reno. You hit I-80 just north of Fallon, then take either I-80 west to Reno or I-80 east (concurrent with 95 north) to Winnemucca.

Actually, you wouldn't take US 95 north out of Fallon if heading to Reno, as that takes you too far north and you end up backtracking southwesterly via I-80. You would take US 50 west & Alt US 50 west to Fernley, then connect to I-80 via I-80 Business in Fernley.

[ftballfan]

The Ohio Turnpike skips South Bend for Chicago west of Toledo.

I-94 skips Jackson and Kalamazoo for Chicago west of Detroit.

The other directions are kind of the same

[Kacie Jane]

You don't pass through Winnemucca on the way to Reno. You hit I-80 just north of Fallon, then take either I-80 west to Reno or I-80 east (concurrent with 95 north) to Winnemucca.

Actually, you wouldn't take US 95 north out of Fallon if heading to Reno, as that takes you too far north and you end up backtracking southwesterly via I-80. You would take US 50 west & Alt US 50 west to Fernley, then connect to I-80 via I-80 Business in Fernley.

Since the thread was bumped, I'll belatedly reply, and I admit I oversimplified.  My main point was just that Noel listed Winnemucca as worthy town on the way to Reno... but not only is it not on the way, it's actually about 30-50 miles further from Las Vegas than Reno is.

[Takumi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Miami the control city on I-95 in Virginia or North Carolina, despite passing through Savannah and Jacksonville? I also seem to recall southbound I-85 signed as Durham/Atlanta despite passing through Charlotte.

Both of these are true, I believe, only at the I-95/I-85 interchange itself.

That sign was apparently replaced between 2014 and 2015.

There was still one that said Miami at Exit 50 last year. It's still on GMSV, but since I no longer work in Petersburg I never go that way anymore.

[amroad17]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Miami the control city on I-95 in Virginia or North Carolina, despite passing through Savannah and Jacksonville? I also seem to recall southbound I-85 signed as Durham/Atlanta despite passing through Charlotte.

Both of these are true, I believe, only at the I-95/I-85 interchange itself.

That sign was apparently replaced between 2014 and 2015.

I wish they kept Miami and Atlanta on the newer signs.    This interchange, I believe, is a regionally important one.  A motorist would either be heading down the Atlantic coast or heading to the Southern region.

[amroad17]

I-90/Thruway almost never uses Rochester and Syracuse as control cities (it's always Albany and Buffalo (and Erie west of the latter)).

These are the only signs I know of that have Rochester as a control city, and I don't know of any that have Syracuse.

Rochester was added about 10-12 years ago on the last signs before these.  Before, I believe the one at Exit 50 had only Albany on it and the one at Exit 53 had either Canada or Niagara Falls along with Albany.

Naturally, these are carbon copy signs.  Rochester should be listed before Albany.

I am originally from the Syracuse area and I am not butt-hurt that Syracuse is not listed as a control city.  Albany is the more logical choice.  Syracuse does get mentioned on post-interchange mileage signs.  Good enough for me.

As for something I would like to see is for Cleveland to be posted along with Erie on the westbound Thruway overheads around Buffalo.  There is enough room on those signs for the Thruway DOT to do that.

[LM117]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Miami the control city on I-95 in Virginia or North Carolina, despite passing through Savannah and Jacksonville? I also seem to recall southbound I-85 signed as Durham/Atlanta despite passing through Charlotte.

Both of these are true, I believe, only at the I-95/I-85 interchange itself.

That sign was apparently replaced between 2014 and 2015.

I wish they kept Miami and Atlanta on the newer signs.    This interchange, I believe, is a regionally important one.  A motorist would either be heading down the Atlantic coast or heading to the Southern region.

So do I. I also think Charlotte should be used as the main control city with Greenville being secondary for I-85 in Atlanta at the northbound I-75/I-85 split.

[amroad17]

Two control cities are used for the north I-75/I-285 interchange for any direction.  It should be done there in downtown Atlanta as well as at any interstate interchange along the I-285 perimeter, as long as it is leading away from Atlanta.

Examples...

       I-85 North: Greenville, Charlotte
       I-20 East: Augusta, Columbia
       I-75 South: Macon, Tampa (although it may already be on signs like this)
       I-85 South: Columbus, Montgomery

I-75 North has Chattanooga and I-20 West has Birmingham.  I cannot see adding Knoxville or even Cincinnati to I-75 North nor adding Jackson, Shreveport, or even Dallas to I-20 West.  Those locations are too far away and there are, in the case of I-75 North, other interstates that interchange and go a different way.

[Zzonkmiles]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Miami the control city on I-95 in Virginia or North Carolina, despite passing through Savannah and Jacksonville? I also seem to recall southbound I-85 signed as Durham/Atlanta despite passing through Charlotte.

Both of these are true, I believe, only at the I-95/I-85 interchange itself.

That sign was apparently replaced between 2014 and 2015.

I wish they kept Miami and Atlanta on the newer signs.    This interchange, I believe, is a regionally important one.  A motorist would either be heading down the Atlantic coast or heading to the Southern region.

Durham/Atlanta is still on one of those signs at the I-85/95 split. The Rocky Mount NC/Miami sign no longer exists, however. Interestingly, "South Hill/Blackstone" gets more love than Durham or Atlanta, which is of limited use to most motorists.

[coatimundi]

Back in the day (changed about ten years ago), Baton Rouge was the control city for I-10 east of Beaumont. However, as soon as you crossed into Louisiana, it became Lake Charles and, after that, Lafayette, as it should have. Pics
I would guess TxDOT realized that this was confusing and changed, maybe during the rebuild at about that same time.

I also recall there being signs for Orange on the intersecting surface roads west of Lake Charles, but I could be wrong about that.

[Captain Jack]

The one that jumps out at me in my area is Evansville. No, I-64 does not technically go through it, but it's a destination along the route for a decent portion of traffic. Plus, it's now an intersection of two 2dis. The same logic that led to Dayton being used on I-70 could be used to add Evansville to I-64.

The only problem to this logic, while quite sound, is that when you drive I-70 north of Dayton you are passing through the northern suburbs of Dayton, even passing through the city for a small stretch. You can tell you are driving through the Dayton metro area, even if it's only the northern fringes of it. Meanwhile with I-64 in Evansville, you'd never notice that you are passing by Indiana's third largest city if not for the highway signs leading you onto I-69 and US 41. The development in Evansville is still roughly five miles south of the interstate. If all of Vanderburgh County gets developed than it may be an argument later.

I agree with you somewhat on the Dayton argument, but I think a much more compelling case for getting Evansville on as a control city along 64 would be Huntsville's addition to I-65. It is over 15 miles from I-65 to downtown Huntsville on I-565, very similar to what the distance was on I-164, prior to it becoming I-69.  Both are similar size cities about the same distance from the mainline interstate.

I know Illinois uses secondary control cities, but I thought it always seemed strange that Evansville is used across Southern Illinois, but as soon as you cross into Indiana, Louisville is used.

[LM117]

At the I-95/I-40 interchange in Benson NC, Smithfield and Rocky Mount are used as the control cities for I-95 North, completely skipping Wilson, which is between Smithfield and Rocky Mount and is almost as big as Rocky Mount, population-wise. I'd remove Smithfield and add Wilson next to Rocky Mount since they're both bigger than Smithfield, which is basically nothing more than an overgrown truck stop, IMO.

[lordsutch]

An oddity: southbound I-75 in Florida omits Ocala as a control city, favoring Tampa instead south of Lake City, despite it being used northbound on both I-75 and the Turnpike.

I could see a case for signing either Ocala or Gainesville in both directions, as both are regionally important cities (Gainesville being home of UF; both have metro populations over 200k); then again, I could see a case for neither (avoiding regional rivalry). Wildwood would also make sense on the Lake City theory that it's a major decision point between I-75 and the Turnpike.

[slorydn1]

At the I-95/I-40 interchange in Benson NC, Smithfield and Rocky Mount are used as the control cities for I-95 North, completely skipping Wilson, which is between Smithfield and Rocky Mount and is almost as big as Rocky Mount, population-wise. I'd remove Smithfield and add Wilson next to Rocky Mount since they're both bigger than Smithfield, which is basically nothing more than an overgrown truck stop, IMO.

Ahhh, but Smithfield (well really Selma but I digress) is the next major east-west junction off I-95 North from there: US-70, and its Raleigh-coastal area connection, makes it the perfect next control point north of I-40 on I-95.

Which, if I am not mistaken, was the real reason for control points/cities in the pre-GPS era to start with.

[bing101]

I-80 Westbound in Solano County, Sacramento County and Yolo County does not mention Oakland as  the control city until you reach the other side of the Westbound Carquinez Bridge. Also San Francisco is a bigger control city anyways.

[bing101]

Southbound CA 99 in Sacramento is signed for Fresno, bypassing nearby Stockton (population 300K), about 40-45 miles south of Sacramento.

There's probably two factors at play here. (1) 40-45 miles is maybe a bit close for a control city.  (2) I-5 and SR 99 both go from Sacramento to Stockton.  Only 99 goes to Fresno, so it makes more sense to use that to differentiate the two routes.

Don't forget I-5 Southbound from Natomas area they also put Los Angeles as the control city simply because its a direct route to DTLA and not Stockton for similar reasons.

[bing101]

I-5 north of Los Angeles skips over Bakersfield, opting for Sacramento. It was formerly Bakersfield (many signs on the Arroyo Seco Parkway formerly had the control city of I-5 for Bakersfield).

I-5 doesn't go through Bakersfield.  US 99 did.  Caltrans believed it was confusing to sign control cities that weren't actually on the route, and eliminated most of them.

Excepting that they then signed San Francisco (along with Sacramento) on I-5...

The real reason I-5 Says San Francisco has something to do with a connection to I-580 in Tracy. From My understanding Tracy gets counted as being part of the San Francisco Bay Area even though its in the San Joaquin Valley. 

Also in California you have Freeways that say Sacramento as a Control City even though the route never goes to Sacramento. For Example I-680 from San Jose to Fairfield say Sacramento on the Northbound lanes except the Freeway ends in Solano County as Eastbound 80 ramp. I-780 east includes Sacramento and San Jose as the control cities and its really to get people on I-680,  CA-37 Eastbound, I-405 North, I-210 west, CA-170 All have control cities to Sacramento but they point to the parent routes for that.

[amroad17]

I-264 in Kentucky gets Shively, which is a southwestern suburb of Louisville, at I-64 at the foot of the Sherman Minton Bridge. At the other I-64 interchange, the "control city" is the name of the freeway (Watterson Expressway), which I think is also the case at I-65. And I-265 gets Gene Snyder Freeway (instead of Lexington and Cincinnati at I-65, or Nashville at I-71. Once the bridge is complete, it should get Nashville and Indianapolis at I-64.

And at I-71.

[dvferyance]

I-75 in Florida uses Naples and skips Ft Myers which is a bigger city.

[coatimundi]

I-75 in Florida uses Naples and skips Ft Myers which is a bigger city.

I would guess this is because Naples is the start of the tolled Alligator Alley. It's sort of like junctions being used for control cities. I-12 uses Hammond, and I-10 uses Lake City. They're major points in the roadway but are not large towns worthy of control city status.

[roadman65]

I always liked the fact NYSDOT, uses New Haven for I-95 N Bound in New York City and Westchester County when you have to pass through Bridgeport, Connecticut's largest city, to get there.

Then you have Concord, NH used on I-93 in Boston, but Manchester is in between the two as well, and Manchester is NH's largest city which is interesting as well.

Then you have the ultimate with Norfolk over VA Beach on roads leading into the Hampton Roads area, especially along US 13 pretty much from Delaware.  You must pass through VA Beach first along US 13 before you reach Norfolk.  However Norfolk is more well known and I believe up until the early 1990's, it was larger than VA Beach in population.  Most likely because VA Beach has sprawled out so much and its land mass is far greater than Norfolk, so it would make sense to why this city has more people in it then the Navy town.