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Four-way crossings of dirt roads

Started by Road Hog, August 12, 2020, 12:45:21 AM

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Road Hog

This sounds like it should be pretty common, but I'm not sure. Nowadays any major county road important enough to warrant busting straight through an intersection without a concurrency is probably paved.

Thread inspired by a Robert Johnson discussion elsewhere.


JayhawkCO

If I'm understanding your intention correctly, literally everywhere in the western states.

Chris

kphoger

Huh?  There are four-way intersections of unpaved roads all over the place.

random example near me
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Max Rockatansky

Way too common California to even be a novelty. 

ethanhopkin14

#4
Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2020, 12:45:21 AM
This sounds like it should be pretty common, but I'm not sure. Nowadays any major county road important enough to warrant busting straight through an intersection without a concurrency is probably paved.

Thread inspired by a Robert Johnson discussion elsewhere.

I am with ya.  Not to sound all big headed, but in Texas, unpaved roads are extremely hard to find, and usually when you find one, they turn off of a well maintained road, so the intersection of two unpaved roads in Texas is kinda a white whale. 

skluth

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yup. You find them all over California once you get away from the main cities. This is the area around Landers just north of Joshua Tree. It has a grid pattern for the streets and all are dirt except the few main roads. As Max said, too common to be a novelty.

Flint1979

All over the place in Michigan. I can't think of a county that doesn't have a dirt road intersecting with another dirt road. Close example for me would be in western Saginaw County. A lot of the back roads in western Saginaw County become dirt roads with like Hemlock and Merrill being the only two north-south roads west of M-52 that aren't dirt at any point even Meridian becomes a dirt road which is a north-south road stretching the entire length of the state of Michigan.

kphoger

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 12, 2020, 01:24:29 PM

Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2020, 12:45:21 AM
This sounds like it should be pretty common, but I'm not sure. Nowadays any major county road important enough to warrant busting straight through an intersection without a concurrency is probably paved.

Thread inspired by a Robert Johnson discussion elsewhere.

I am with ya.  Not to sound all big headed, but in Texas, unpaved roads are extremely had to find, and usually when you find one, they turn off of a well maintained road, so the intersection of two unpaved roads in Texas is kinda a white whale. 

I searched for quite a while in y'all's area of Texas before my last post, and here is what I found:

1.  Three-way intersections are way more common than four-way intersections around there, especially on minor roads.  This makes the pool of intersections to draw from smaller than it might otherwise appear.  It also means that the remaining four-way intersections are likely to be either in a residential area or else not very minor.  These things aren't really the case in many other states.

2.  There are several three-quarter examples out there.  I found more than one four-way intersection in central Texas at which only one leg was paved.  Close but not quite.

3.  Compared to those in Oklahoma and Kansas, minor roads are more likely to be paved in Texas.  Not only is there an extensive secondary state highway system, but a good number of county roads are paved as well.

4.  Go to other parts of Texas, though, and you're more likely to find what you're looking for.  It took almost no time at all, for example, to find this in the Panhandle.  And it took only a couple of minutes to find one with GSV.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

ethanhopkin14

Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 02:21:31 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 12, 2020, 01:24:29 PM

Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2020, 12:45:21 AM
This sounds like it should be pretty common, but I'm not sure. Nowadays any major county road important enough to warrant busting straight through an intersection without a concurrency is probably paved.

Thread inspired by a Robert Johnson discussion elsewhere.

I am with ya.  Not to sound all big headed, but in Texas, unpaved roads are extremely had to find, and usually when you find one, they turn off of a well maintained road, so the intersection of two unpaved roads in Texas is kinda a white whale. 

I searched for quite a while in y'all's area of Texas before my last post, and here is what I found:

1.  Three-way intersections are way more common than four-way intersections around there, especially on minor roads.  This makes the pool of intersections to draw from smaller than it might otherwise appear.  It also means that the remaining four-way intersections are likely to be either in a residential area or else not very minor.  These things aren't really the case in many other states.

2.  There are several three-quarter examples out there.  I found more than one four-way intersection in central Texas at which only one leg was paved.  Close but not quite.

3.  Compared to those in Oklahoma and Kansas, minor roads are more likely to be paved in Texas.  Not only is there an extensive secondary state highway system, but a good number of county roads are paved as well.

4.  Go to other parts of Texas, though, and you're more likely to find what you're looking for.  It took almost no time at all, for example, to find this in the Panhandle.  And it took only a couple of minutes to find one with GSV.

The Panhandle is so foreign to me I don't even consider it the same state. 

Roadgeekteen

There are probably some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

ethanhopkin14

Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 02:21:31 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 12, 2020, 01:24:29 PM

Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2020, 12:45:21 AM
This sounds like it should be pretty common, but I'm not sure. Nowadays any major county road important enough to warrant busting straight through an intersection without a concurrency is probably paved.

Thread inspired by a Robert Johnson discussion elsewhere.

I am with ya.  Not to sound all big headed, but in Texas, unpaved roads are extremely had to find, and usually when you find one, they turn off of a well maintained road, so the intersection of two unpaved roads in Texas is kinda a white whale. 

I searched for quite a while in y'all's area of Texas before my last post, and here is what I found:

1.  Three-way intersections are way more common than four-way intersections around there, especially on minor roads.  This makes the pool of intersections to draw from smaller than it might otherwise appear.  It also means that the remaining four-way intersections are likely to be either in a residential area or else not very minor.  These things aren't really the case in many other states.

2.  There are several three-quarter examples out there.  I found more than one four-way intersection in central Texas at which only one leg was paved.  Close but not quite.

3.  Compared to those in Oklahoma and Kansas, minor roads are more likely to be paved in Texas.  Not only is there an extensive secondary state highway system, but a good number of county roads are paved as well.

4.  Go to other parts of Texas, though, and you're more likely to find what you're looking for.  It took almost no time at all, for example, to find this in the Panhandle.  And it took only a couple of minutes to find one with GSV.

Okay, joking aside, I have driven a lot of this state, but the panhandle is an area I have driven only 10 times in my life, maybe more, and it's usually the same roads, major US highways and I-40 and I-27.  I am not surprised to hear there are a fair amount of unpaved roads up there.  Just when I read the thread two things come to mind.  One, Texas loves to brag about how every state maintained road is paved, and B, all the back, back, back woods driving I have done in this state in areas that are downright poor, still have every road paved.  Granted I am talking, central, east, northeast southeast and north Texas. I think there are a lot of unpaved roads that intersect around the Texas side of New Mexico's southeastern most corner, but a lot of them are on private property and they just don't cross my mind. 

kphoger

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 12, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
There are probably some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.

There probably aren't any in Massachusetts.  I don't know of any.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

ftballfan

Just in Manistee County, MI:
Examples
Feldhak Rd/Adamson Lake Rd
Kerry Rd/Kenny Rd
Kerry Rd/Farnsworth Rd
Nine Mile Bridge Rd/Claybank Rd
Steinberg Rd/Nine Mile Bridge Rd
Steinberg Rd/Marzinski Rd
Cedar Creek Rd/Michigan Ave
Cedar Creek Rd/Voelm Rd
Cedar Creek Rd/Seaman Rd
Flarity Rd/Clements Rd
Pole Rd/Clements Rd
Sedlar Rd/Lenz Rd
Hulls Rd/Litzen Rd
Benton Rd/Litzen Rd
Valencourt Rd/Erwin Rd
Rice Rd/Viaduct Rd
Rice Rd/Litzen Rd
Rice Rd/Erwin Rd
Read Rd/Erwin Rd
Read Rd/Litzen Rd
Read Rd/Viaduct Rd
Adams Rd/Viaduct Rd
Makinen Rd/Pahkanen Rd
Makinen Rd/Puustinen Rd
Creamery Rd/Holso Rd
Creamery Rd/Puustinen Rd
Eight Mile Rd/Elm Rd
Husiar Rd/Moss Rd
Connelly Rd/Peacock Rd
Thomas Rd/Mary Rd
Near-misses
Cedar Creek Rd/Baker Rd (Cedar Creek jogs very slightly)
Lahti Rd/Jouppi Rd (Jouppi is paved to the south)
Valencourt Rd/Viaduct Rd (Valencourt jogs very slightly)
Dickson Rd/Keith Rd (1. Keith Rd is paved to the north; 2. Keith Rd jogs slightly)
Guenthardt Rd/Kettle Hole Rd (Kettle Hole is paved to the south)

TheHighwayMan3561

I think what could make this thread more interesting is narrowing it to 4-way stop signs on dirt roads.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Flint1979

Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 12, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
There are probably some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.

There probably aren't any in Massachusetts.  I don't know of any.
Possibly on one of the islands. I don't know a ton about Massachusetts though.

Flint1979

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 12, 2020, 03:50:36 PM
I think what could make this thread more interesting is narrowing it to 4-way stop signs on dirt roads.
Now that I haven't seen. Most of the time they seem to have yield signs.

kphoger

Quote from: Flint1979 on August 12, 2020, 04:15:18 PM

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 12, 2020, 03:50:36 PM
I think what could make this thread more interesting is narrowing it to 4-way stop signs on dirt roads.

Now that I haven't seen. Most of the time they seem to have yield signs.

Yeah, I could come up with a ton of ones that have (a) a two-way stop, (b) a two-way yield, or (c) no signs at all.  But I'm hard-pressed to come up with an unpaved four-way intersection.  The best bet is probably going to be a residential neighborhood with gravel roads.  But, even then, I don't know "gravel" counts as "dirt" for this exercise.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

debragga

Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 12, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
There are probably some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.

There probably aren't any in Massachusetts.  I don't know of any.

There might be some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.

SectorZ

Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 03:05:08 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 12, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
There are probably some in Massachusetts but I don't know of any.

There probably aren't any in Massachusetts.  I don't know of any.

There's a bunch of 3-way intersections all over the state, especially in the five western counties. Encountered many on bike rides living in Fitchburg. East of Worcester county, not so much.

Here is one that could be argued is either a 3-way next to a 3-way, or a total 5-way intersection.
No street view and kind of hard to tell on satellite, so you'll just have to take my word on it.

ethanhopkin14

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 12, 2020, 03:50:36 PM
I think what could make this thread more interesting is narrowing it to 4-way stop signs on dirt roads.

How about 4 way intersections of dirt roads with traffic signals?   :-D

On a side note, I have always been fascinated with dirt roads having at-grade intersections with railroad tracks that have full crossing lights, bells and lowering crossing gates.  I have seen this before.  Must scour for evidence. 

GaryV

When they first built M-14, Gottfredson Road was still dirt.  The only paved part was the bridge over the freeway and the exit area.

Rothman

Concerning MA, I can only think of three-way intersections.  But, I do like the intersection at Pratt Corners (Shutesbury Rd/Cushman Rd in Shutesbury, MA).  My father considered starting some sort of convenience store on that triangle of land.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

JayhawkCO

My county, which is the second-most populous county in the Denver metro area, probably has hundreds, perhaps upwards of 1,000.

Chris

Flint1979

#23
Quote from: GaryV on August 12, 2020, 05:48:23 PM
When they first built M-14, Gottfredson Road was still dirt.  The only paved part was the bridge over the freeway and the exit area.
It still is south of Plymouth Road and north of Territorial. It's only paved for about 2 miles. Both Warren and Cherry Hill are also dirt roads when they cross Gottfredson.

zachary_amaryllis

Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2020, 12:23:47 PM
Huh?  There are four-way intersections of unpaved roads all over the place.

random example near me

weld co, colo makes it interesting, with many having no stop signs in any direction.. you just sort of solve the triangle if you see anyone on a side road, and it mostly works out.
clinched:
I-64, I-80, I-76 (west), *64s in hampton roads, 225,270,180 (co, wy)



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