Beltways/Circumferential/Orbital highways

[1995hoo]

....

Stockholm is slowly but surely building a small-circumference beltway around its congestion taxing cordon area.  Only two segments are complete (on the west and south sides) and the north segment is under construction.  Except the 1960's era west segment, most of the rest will be below-grade.  The eastern part will have to go pretty deep under saltwater that has a fair amount of large oceangoing ships (mostly passenger vessels to Finland, Estonia and Russia).

Yeah, I've been through the Stockholm Archipelago on a cruise ship and I noted at the time how any sort of bridge–intentionally disregarding the tunnel option–would be impractical because it would either have to be built absurdly high (which wouldn't really work on those islands) or it would have to be a bascule or swing span (neither of which make sense due to shipping volume). I remember thinking it would make more sense just to leave it as a half-beltway and maintain the ferry service they have now. But I also understand how if you live in that area, especially Rindö, a ferry is a pain in the arse since you have to take one every time you go somewhere. It's really easy for outsiders to argue that a bridge or tunnel is unnecessary but it's a quite different matter if you live there.

[cpzilliacus]

I thought the topic was more generally directed at beltways that are universally known and if you said its name, everyone would know where you were talking about.

Beltways, ring highways and orbital motorways (as they say in Britain) are what I was talking about.

Say "The Beltway" and everyone knows you're talking about DC, especially with the famous phrase "Inside the Beltway."

Agreed. 

Some years ago, I was reading a Finnish newspaper (in Swedish, which is an official language in Finland), and saw the phrase "Inside Ring III" used in exactly the same context as "Inside the Beltway."  Having logged more miles and time wasted in congestion on the Capital Beltway in Maryland and Virginia than I care to admit, that reference to Ring III (Kehä III in Finnish) brought a smile to my face.

[cpzilliacus]

....

Stockholm is slowly but surely building a small-circumference beltway around its congestion taxing cordon area.  Only two segments are complete (on the west and south sides) and the north segment is under construction.  Except the 1960's era west segment, most of the rest will be below-grade.  The eastern part will have to go pretty deep under saltwater that has a fair amount of large oceangoing ships (mostly passenger vessels to Finland, Estonia and Russia).

Yeah, I've been through the Stockholm Archipelago on a cruise ship and I noted at the time how any sort of bridge–intentionally disregarding the tunnel option–would be impractical because it would either have to be built absurdly high (which wouldn't really work on those islands) or it would have to be a bascule or swing span (neither of which make sense due to shipping volume). I remember thinking it would make more sense just to leave it as a half-beltway and maintain the ferry service they have now. But I also understand how if you live in that area, especially Rindö, a ferry is a pain in the arse since you have to take one every time you go somewhere. It's really easy for outsiders to argue that a bridge or tunnel is unnecessary but it's a quite different matter if you live there.

There are a fair number of swing spans and bascule bridges in various places around Sweden, but one of those would presumably not be acceptable for a motorway near or around Stockholm.  The 1960's western part of the circumferential motorway, called Essingeleden and posted as part of routes E4 and E20 features several high (fixed) bridges over parts of freshwater Lake Mälaren to the west of the urban core (even though the lake is freshwater, it carries a fair amount of shipping, hence the high bridges) - you can see what it looks like on Swedish-language Wikipedia here. 

Essingeleden has the highest average daily traffic volume on Sweden's highway network at about 160,000.

Interesting aside - the Wikipedia article has at least one image of the highway in operation before 3 September 1967, when Sweden still drove on the left, and the motorway was partially completed (Essingeleden was engineered and designed for right-hand traffic - the decision to switch all road traffic to the right had been made by the Swedish Parliament in 1963). 

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

I thought the topic was more generally directed at beltways that are universally known and if you said its name, everyone would know where you were talking about.

Say "The Beltway" and everyone knows you're talking about DC, especially with the famous phrase "Inside the Beltway."

In Central Ohio, if not all of Ohio, when you say "outerbelt," folk know you are speaking of I-270. Though I have yet to see any political connotation with outerbelt (locally) like we all see with "The Beltway."

[Takumi]

When I think of "Beltline" Raleigh automatically comes to mind.

Also I'd think of Charlotte when "Outerbelt" is mentioned, but that's because I live closer to Charlotte than Columbus.

[The High Plains Traveler]

Texas is big on "Loop" routes. A number of cities have non-interstate freeways or expressways that go around them. In many instances, the U.S. routes go through town while the "Loop" routes go around, so you need to know in advance to take the Loop route to bypass the city and return to the route you're on.

[MrDisco99]

In Atlanta, "inside the perimeter" has a cultural context as well.  The perimeter serves as a demarcation for what locals think of as the city proper, even though the city (and county) boundaries don't coincide with it.

[kphoger]

In Atlanta, "inside the perimeter" has a cultural context as well.  The perimeter serves as a demarcation for what locals think of as the city proper, even though the city (and county) boundaries don't coincide with it.

Aren't there also truck restrictions inside the perimeter?  I've only heard second-hand stories about that, so please enlighten me.

[MrDisco99]

In Atlanta, "inside the perimeter" has a cultural context as well.  The perimeter serves as a demarcation for what locals think of as the city proper, even though the city (and county) boundaries don't coincide with it.

Aren't there also truck restrictions inside the perimeter?  I've only heard second-hand stories about that, so please enlighten me.

Yes, thru trucks over 6 wheels must use the perimeter.

[mightyace]

^^^

So, is it just commercial trucks or any vehicle with more than 6 wheels.  I used to own a trailer with two axles.  That would be 8 wheel when towing it.  Would you have to go around 285 or not?

[Alps]

^^^

So, is it just commercial trucks or any vehicle with more than 6 wheels.  I used to own a trailer with two axles.  That would be 8 wheel when towing it.  Would you have to go around 285 or not?

Thru trucks, say the signs. So go ahead through.

[cpzilliacus]

In Atlanta, "inside the perimeter" has a cultural context as well.  The perimeter serves as a demarcation for what locals think of as the city proper, even though the city (and county) boundaries don't coincide with it.

Aren't there also truck restrictions inside the perimeter?  I've only heard second-hand stories about that, so please enlighten me.

Yes, thru trucks over 6 wheels must use the perimeter.

MrDisco, I got the impression  (based on an admittedly limited sample) that the prohibition against trucks using I-75 and I-85 inside the Perimeter (I-285) was not especially strictly enforced.  I don't have a CDL and I don't drive a commercial truck, so I have no direct experience, but that's what it seemed to look like.

[NE2]

MrDisco, I got the impression  (based on an admittedly limited sample) that the prohibition against trucks using I-75 and I-85 inside the Perimeter (I-285) was not especially strictly enforced.

Did you interview the drivers to make sure they were through trucks?

[ftballfan]

Detroit doesn't have one officially, but has two that may qualify.

1. I-275 (western leg)/I-696 (northern leg) - the northern end of I-275 is the western end of I-696

2. US-23 (big bypass of Detroit)

Lansing has one, consisting of I-96/I-69 (western), I-69 (northern), US-127/I-496 (eastern), and I-96 (southern).

[MrDisco99]

MrDisco, I got the impression  (based on an admittedly limited sample) that the prohibition against trucks using I-75 and I-85 inside the Perimeter (I-285) was not especially strictly enforced.  I don't have a CDL and I don't drive a commercial truck, so I have no direct experience, but that's what it seemed to look like.

If enforcement really was lax, then trucks would ignore the prohibition.  From what I've seen, they don't.

Take the connector end to end one day and count the number of semi's you see, then double back on the perimeter and look to see how many surround you any given moment.  Pretty sure the latter will be higher.


EDIT: connector translates to I-75/85 for you foreigners.

[InterstateNG]

MrDisco, I got the impression  (based on an admittedly limited sample) that the prohibition against trucks using I-75 and I-85 inside the Perimeter (I-285) was not especially strictly enforced.

Did you interview the drivers to make sure they were through trucks?

Tollroadsnews reported it.

[vtk]

I thought the topic was more generally directed at beltways that are universally known and if you said its name, everyone would know where you were talking about.

Say "The Beltway" and everyone knows you're talking about DC, especially with the famous phrase "Inside the Beltway."

In Central Ohio, if not all of Ohio, when you say "outerbelt," folk know you are speaking of I-270. Though I have yet to see any political connotation with outerbelt (locally) like we all see with "The Beltway."

There's also the Innerbelt, consisting of I-70/71/670 and OH 315.  If you work inside the Innerbelt, there's a good chance you work in government or insurance – but I don't think people refer to the Innerbelt with a cultural implication either.

The Innerbelt is about 7 miles long. The Outerbelt is 55 miles long. The Outer-Outerbelt which has been proposed in the past would probably be 120—160 miles long, but MORPC has rejected the idea. (Most of it would be outside their boundaries, though.) I think Superbelt would have been a better name...

I would also like to bring up differing usage of the words "inner" and "outer". In east coast cities like DC, these words refer to driving in different directions on their Beltway, and this is not always apparent to visitors from the middle of the country. In Columbus and some other cities, "innerbelt" and "outerbelt" refer to completely different freeways.

[Brandon]

In Atlanta, "inside the perimeter" has a cultural context as well.  The perimeter serves as a demarcation for what locals think of as the city proper, even though the city (and county) boundaries don't coincide with it.

Similarly for Chicago, it's the Tri-State Tollway (I-294) that's a cultural boundary.  You have Chicagoans who don't see past the Tri-State, and the rest of us who'd rather not go inside the Tri-State.  It's not quite a full beltway (Lake Michigan kind of does get in the way).

[Bickendan]

Ok, I've gotta ask: Tri-State Tollway. Is this a historical name or what, as looking at the map, it physically only exists in Illinois, stretching from the US 41 split on I-94 just south of the Wisconsin border to I-80/94/294/IL394 interchange just west of Indiana.

[kphoger]

Ok, I've gotta ask: Tri-State Tollway. Is this a historical name or what, as looking at the map, it physically only exists in Illinois, stretching from the US 41 split on I-94 just south of the Wisconsin border to I-80/94/294/IL394 interchange just west of Indiana.

OK, I don't know the history behind the name.  But didn't you just answer your own question?  It stretches from near Wisconsin, through Illinois, to near Indiana.  That's three states.

[Bickendan]

But it doesn't physically leave Illinois at all. When I first saw the name, I thought it was an extension of the Indiana/Ohio Turnpike... Illinois, Indiana, Ohio... ok, that makes sense.
But no; the Tri-State doesn't leave Illinois, and the Indiana East-West Tollroad starts on the Chicago Skyway.

[vtk]

The Tri-State Tollway is what it is, and always has been.  No, it doesn't actually enter Indiana or Wisconsin, but those are the other two states to which the name refers.  I suppose one could argue that roads like the Indiana Toll Road, Ohio Turnpike, Pennsylvania Turnpike, Kansas Turnpike, etc are just as much "tri-state" as the Tri-State Tollway.  I'm not sure there are any true multi-state tollways (besides bridges or similar short tolled connections across state lines) built and operated by single entities.

See also Chesapeake, Ohio's Tri-State Outerbelt, which isn't really either of those things, nor will it be when completed.

[Brandon]

It's called the Tri-State Tollway due to the fact it is the main connecting route between three states, from Indiana (connected by the 3 mile long Robert Kingery Expy) to Wisconsin (ISTHA apparently maintains the last mile that's not toll).  It's called that for the same reason I-94 is the Tri-State Highway in Indiana.

Coincidentally, the Tri-State Tollway and the Tri-State Highway (section through Gary and Hammond is also called the Frank Borman Expy) are connected by the Kingery Expy.  As a side note, the Kingery is the first controlled access highway in Illinois, dating from 1950.

It's also to separate it from the other 2 tollways built at that time (1958), the Northwest Tollway (in conjunction with the Northwest Expy - now JFK Expy) and the East-West Tollway (to Sugar Grove).

[hbelkins]

See also Chesapeake, Ohio's Tri-State Outerbelt, which isn't really either of those things, nor will it be when completed.

Is that actually what they are calling OH 7? I have never heard it called that.

And are there any plans to connect OH 7 to WV 193? The end of the Proctorville bypass is right across the river from the end of the Merritts Creek Connector.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

I thought the topic was more generally directed at beltways that are universally known and if you said its name, everyone would know where you were talking about.

Say "The Beltway" and everyone knows you're talking about DC, especially with the famous phrase "Inside the Beltway."

In Central Ohio, if not all of Ohio, when you say "outerbelt," folk know you are speaking of I-270. Though I have yet to see any political connotation with outerbelt (locally) like we all see with "The Beltway."

There's also the Innerbelt, consisting of I-70/71/670 and OH 315.  If you work inside the Innerbelt, there's a good chance you work in government or insurance — but I don't think people refer to the Innerbelt with a cultural implication either.

The Innerbelt is about 7 miles long. The Outerbelt is 55 miles long. The Outer-Outerbelt which has been proposed in the past would probably be 120–160 miles long, but MORPC has rejected the idea. (Most of it would be outside their boundaries, though.) I think Superbelt would have been a better name…

I would also like to bring up differing usage of the words "inner" and "outer". In east coast cities like DC, these words refer to driving in different directions on their Beltway, and this is not always apparent to visitors from the middle of the country. In Columbus and some other cities, "innerbelt" and "outerbelt" refer to completely different freeways.

I think you typed "innerbelt" more times than the general populace of Central Ohio has said that word in the last 45 years.
Now if we were in Cleveland, we would use "innerbelt" almost on a daily basis.